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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    As Steve says, do not concentrate on the linearity of the springs, concentrate on what spring rate fits your terrain and riding style best.
    I would not be making a big stink about this if it weren't for the fact that the real-life spring curve I plotted causes me to not get the last 3/4 inch of travel, while wallowing thru the first 3. One of the main reasons I moved away from my Reba fork towards a Minute Pro.

  2. #77
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    If it's plush as it is and at its current sag, just be happy. How much are you leaving on the table anyway?
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  3. #78
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    I think I have never bottomed it out using a 30% of SAG, and I normally have like 3cm that I don't use... but I do bottom out the Fox RP23 '12 so I suppose I ride "hard" enough

  4. #79
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    Rather than finding out, "what spring rate fits your terrain and riding style best," It's more about what your bike was designed for. A friend has a Specialized Enduro that has progressive linkage. Now throw an air spring and the final rate is almost logrithmic. No amount of tweaking will increase the rebound capacity to slow the spring force at full compression.

    DR

  5. #80
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    We're talking about forks.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    I would not be making a big stink about this if it weren't for the fact that the real-life spring curve I plotted causes me to not get the last 3/4 inch of travel, while wallowing thru the first 3. One of the main reasons I moved away from my Reba fork towards a Minute Pro.
    I am currently running a Tower Expert (coil w/ air assist) and just Installed a Tower Pro on my second bike. The Expert is one of the best performing short travel fork's I have used. It has excellent small bump compliance w/ no wallow or dive. I added oil to the spring chamber to gain progression - adding more air degraded performance. Now the Pro hasn't hit the trails yet but from just compressing the fork down the driveway it feels like its going to be a wallower.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    Now the Pro hasn't hit the trails yet but from just compressing the fork down the driveway it feels like its going to be a wallower.
    Yeah, it is a funny spring system design. I think the intent is that right as the coil spring is about to bottom out the air spring takes over. So in a way, you have to match the coil spring to your weight or intended stiffness, and the air pressure has to match that, if you want a smooth transition.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ban View Post
    I was set to install a '13 RC2 cartridge on my Fox Float 36 RLC '12 precisely to avoid the fork being too progressive but reading this thread is making me think it's not going to help???
    Better bet would be to shorten the air rod and increase the air spring volume. Not worth the expense of purchasing the new air spring. Also be aware that a large part of the progressive nature of the '12 is the RLC damper.

  9. #84
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    I'd prefer not make any mod if possible but cheers for the advice, in any case and seeing what you say about the RLC damper, is it possible then to make the fork more linear with a RC2 cartridge?? cheers!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Better bet would be to shorten the air rod and increase the air spring volume. Not worth the expense of purchasing the new air spring. Also be aware that a large part of the progressive nature of the '12 is the RLC damper.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Yeah, it is a funny spring system design. I think the intent is that right as the coil spring is about to bottom out the air spring takes over. So in a way, you have to match the coil spring to your weight or intended stiffness, and the air pressure has to match that, if you want a smooth transition.
    According to Manitou the sole purpose of the coil is to eliminate stichion that you would have in a full air spring fork. The coil is used used to set sag and breakaway movement after that its supposed to be on the air spring. The pictures I have seen lead me to believe that coil would move quite a bit especially if it were to bottom. I plan on adding oil to the air chamber to see if it adds progression w/o limiting travel.

  11. #86
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    To be honest, I don't know how much the spring helps with the stiction. The fork seems to have plenty of that by itself, whether it is due to the bushings or seals or whatever. If the spring actually helped reduce breakaway force, you would feel the fork move a fraction of an inch first before feeling something "break away". However, what others have told me seems to be true in that the forks feels kind of sticky in the parking lot, but after a few minutes of riding, it seems to plush out a bit on the trail.

    The air piston in the fork has an area of about .9 sq inches, so if you pumped to fork to 70psi, for example, the spring is going to be doing all of the first 63 lbs. I'm not sure at what force the spring bottoms out, so you may be right that both the air and coil spring are active mid stroke. That would mean, though, that the spring rate would suddenly increase when the coil spring bottoms out. I am running the soft spring and about 55-60 psi, and I can say that I don't feel anything funny in the spring behavior, nor break-away stiction related.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    We're talking about forks.
    It was the quote I was referring to. A bike suspension "system" that was designed with coil in mind, might not work with an air fork. Tweak it all you want. You can't change the welded tubes with more oil volume.

    But , thanks for the clarity.

    DR

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtracer View Post
    It was the quote I was referring to. A bike suspension "system" that was designed with coil in mind, might not work with an air fork. Tweak it all you want. You can't change the welded tubes with more oil volume.

    But , thanks for the clarity.

    DR
    Ah yea, rear suspension is a whole other enchilada.

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