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  1. #1
    DGC
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    Enduro shock eye needle bearing kit

    Just thought you might like to see this. This is a conversion kit to replace your stock DU and reducers on your shock. Reduces the drag by like a TON....!!!!!
    I just installed it on my 5 Spot, have not ridden it yet in the dirt, (hopefully this weekend), but by the feel in the garage it should run real smoothly.
    If you have ever replaced your DU before, this is not much different, quite simple to install and takes a few minutes to do so. The tools they sell are real slick looking for removing the old DU and installing the new goodies.
    I hope to ride it this weekend and see how it does.

    There is plenty of info on the Enduro fork seals web site if you want to look into it further.
    I think the web site is http://enduroforkseals.com
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Enduro shock eye needle bearing kit-_mg_0090-copy-copy.jpg  

    Enduro shock eye needle bearing kit-_mg_0095-copy-copy.jpg  

    OUCH...!!!!!!

  2. #2
    "El Whatever"
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    For the folks in Europe there's also the Amachete kit... Same thing and it has been available for years.

    http://www.amachete.com/

    However, now that Enduro has them, I'd be more than willing to try them.
    Check my Site

  3. #3
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    Should be far more durable than the plastic lined bushings too.

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    Sure, a perfunctory look by an untrained eye might think that's the same thing, but it is not the same thing at all. It comes with seals but no spacers. The seals, when placed two on each side of the bearing do not actually cover all of the inner ring (the "axle" of the bearing). In other words they do not seal the bearing. Our seals are captured by the aluminum spacers which results in a perfect coverage and sealing of the inner ring. In addition, our kit fits 6 or 8 mm hardware since it comes with the reducing sleeves. Not to mention our kit includes all the parts for both shock eyes. The one referenced above is for one end of the shock. Turns out our kit has over twice the parts at a much lower price (you have to double the $24.00 of the other kit and you still won't have the necessary spacers and the additional reducing sleeves).
    Last edited by Chris2fur; 12-24-2009 at 10:19 PM.

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    sucky, i have 10x30 hardware...

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    sory

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    Sure, a perfunctory look by an untrained eye might think that's the same thing, but it is not the same thing at all. It comes with seals but no spacers. The seals, when placed two on each side of the bearing do not actually cover all of the inner ring (the "axle" of the bearing). In other words they do not seal the bearing. Our seals are captured by the aluminum spacers which results in a perfect coverage and sealing of the inner ring. In addition, our kit fits 6 or 8 mm hardware since it comes with the reducing sleeves. Not to mention our kit includes all the parts for both shock eyes. The one referenced above is for one end of the shock. Turns out our kit has over twice the parts at a much lower price (you have to double the $24.00 of the other kit and you still won't have the necessary spacers and the additional reducing sleeves).
    dident dig it too much

    is your kit will fit 3/8 axel like on the nomad?

  8. #8
    on my 3rd wind...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    I just installed it on my 5 Spot...]
    Great product. Can't wait to try it. Do you know if the kit comes with "custom spacer" for both upper and lower eyelet once you determine what length you need? Or does it has to be ordered seperately at additional cost?
    sth

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by assaf_angel


    dident dig it too much

    is your kit will fit 3/8 axel like on the nomad?
    No problem. Details really matter in this case, though. The 2010 Nomad 2 bikes are perfect match. Not sure on the earlier models, but if you have an actual 3/8" shaft or bolt going through the shock eye, that would be too large of diameter to fit through the inner ring (axle) of the needle bearing assembly.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackHound
    Great product. Can't wait to try it. Do you know if the kit comes with "custom spacer" for both upper and lower eyelet once you determine what length you need? Or does it has to be ordered seperately at additional cost?
    The currently available kit was designed to fit the widest variety of frames. We provided the custom spacer guide to allow customers with frames that to not match up to have adapters machined to fit their needs locally. Obviously, our intent is to provide all of the necessary spacers in the future, but this will take some time. What frame and model year are you interested in?

  11. #11
    on my 3rd wind...
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    First bike I want to try this conversion on is my 01 Intense Tracer. It has the original float shock that has the PUSH treatment. On occasion, I'll swap it out with Romic coil. Regardless of which shock, eyelet bushing (mainly lower) develops play within 3 months of regular riding.
    sth

  12. #12
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    So, this is only for Fox shocks then?
    I'd love to try one on my prophet which has a manitou swinger rear shock though....
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdalemaniac
    So, this is only for Fox shocks then?
    I'd love to try one on my prophet which has a manitou swinger rear shock though....
    it will work on any shock that uses the 1/2" (12.7mm) eyelet standard. unfortunately manitou uses 12mm eyelets so no go.

  14. #14
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdalemaniac
    So, this is only for Fox shocks then?
    I'd love to try one on my prophet which has a manitou swinger rear shock though....

    Fox, Marzocchi, Romic, 5th Element Coils, Avalanche and I guess the RS Vivid have 1/2" eyelets and can use the Enduro kit.

    Some RS earlier models (10mm?), Manitous (12mm), 5th Air (3/8" spherical bearings), Cane Creek and DT Swiss use different hardware.
    Check my Site

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    The currently available kit was designed to fit the widest variety of frames. We provided the custom spacer guide to allow customers with frames that to not match up to have adapters machined to fit their needs locally. Obviously, our intent is to provide all of the necessary spacers in the future, but this will take some time. What frame and model year are you interested in?
    Chris2fur,
    I have an '09 Intense Tracer. Upper width is 24.4mm x 6 mm bolt, lower is 41mm x 6mm bolt. Upper spacers would need to be 1.28mm each and the lower spacers would need to be 9.58mm each by my math. Can you do these dimensions? If so, I'll be calling Monday!

    Jim
    Last edited by rsvrjimbo02; 12-26-2009 at 01:17 PM.

  16. #16
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    Dave, Chris, it looks great. I might get one for my Turner 5 spot prototype. For testing purposes

    Here's a direct link to the website:
    http://enduroforkseals.com/id275.html
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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    Me too...

    The currently available kit was designed to fit the widest variety of frames. We provided the custom spacer guide to allow customers with frames that to not match up to have adapters machined to fit their needs locally. Obviously, our intent is to provide all of the necessary spacers in the future, but this will take some time. What frame and model year are you interested in?
    I have an e-mail into Enduro. I hope to have an answer on Monday as well. My bike is an '05 Giant Reign with a Roco Air Shock (0.5" eye). At least I know why my bike was not even listed, it came with a Manitou rear shock.

  18. #18
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    Are there any cautions on suspension types or specific bikes that are NOT suited for this kind of setup? Or can they be universally used (as long as they fit per the sizing info of 1/2" eyelets, 6 or 8mm bolts and 21.84/85 mm width)? How are they in handling axial loads (think that's the right term)? I have been eyeing these but not sure how well they'd work on my bikes that could fit them. Sure wouldn't mind eliminating du bushings and aluminum hats I'm using now...
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
    suum quique

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikinfoolferlife
    Are there any cautions on suspension types or specific bikes that are NOT suited for this kind of setup? Or can they be universally used (as long as they fit per the sizing info of 1/2" eyelets, 6 or 8mm bolts and 21.84/85 mm width)? How are they in handling axial loads (think that's the right term)? I have been eyeing these but not sure how well they'd work on my bikes that could fit them. Sure wouldn't mind eliminating du bushings and aluminum hats I'm using now...
    They will be best on designs which need no or minimal spacers either side. Some bikes, like my wife's intense, have about a 68mm long pin through the shock eye. This length causes a high bending load on the pin which isn't well resisted by mutiple piece sleeve. This situation is where the normal fox type top-hat reducers perform particularly poorly. To get decent bushing life requires a continuous half inch diameter (stainless) steel pin.

    But for the bikes out there which use sane-length shock pins (all but a few), this will be a great upgrade.
    I hope Chris can keep up with demand.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal
    Dave, Chris, it looks great. I might get one for my Turner 5 spot prototype. For testing purposes

    Here's a direct link to the website:
    http://enduroforkseals.com/id275.html
    Turner 5 spot prototype?

  21. #21
    moaaar shimz
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    Sick, I will order a kit soon

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    Turner 5 spot prototype?
    Yes, basically a Turner RFX built with the geometry and tubeset to test the original 5 spot concept of a long travel horst link trailbike. As featured in magazine ads of the day.
    When the production 5 spots were ready, DGC passed it along to me. 5 or so years later it's still my bike of choice.
    But it runs 6" rockers, it took a few years for suitable forks to arrive on the market.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal
    Yes, basically a Turner RFX built with the geometry and tubeset to test the original 5 spot concept of a long travel horst link trailbike. As featured in magazine ads of the day.
    When the production 5 spots were ready, DGC passed it along to me. 5 or so years later it's still my bike of choice.
    But it runs 6" rockers, it took a few years for suitable forks to arrive on the market.
    Cool. Definitely a perfect application.

  24. #24
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    Hey Chris,
    If I read your chart well, this kit will not fit on a 2008 Giant Reign X1? If so, too bad, I would really like to tr it out...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightnerd
    Hey Chris,
    If I read your chart well, this kit will not fit on a 2008 Giant Reign X1? If so, too bad, I would really like to tr it out...
    Sorry, not "as is." We'll have more "drop-in" options in the future.

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    That's really too bad... Anyway, keep us posted when the new options will be available!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    Sorry, not "as is." We'll have more "drop-in" options in the future.
    Chris, I am trying to determine if the kit will fit in my 2008 Yeti 575 with RP23...the chart on your site only has numbers in one box, does that mean the kit will only work on one end of the shock? Or that they are the same on both ends?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyescream
    Chris, I am trying to determine if the kit will fit in my 2008 Yeti 575 with RP23...the chart on your site only has numbers in one box, does that mean the kit will only work on one end of the shock? Or that they are the same on both ends?
    Doesn't the dogbone end of the 575 use special hardware?
    Maybe that's why.
    Check my Site

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Doesn't the dogbone end of the 575 use special hardware?
    Maybe that's why.
    This would be a good one to figure out. I have heard several reports on frequent DU bushing wear on this frame. Maybe I can get my hands on a frame and figure it out.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Doesn't the dogbone end of the 575 use special hardware?
    Maybe that's why.
    the exploded view on the yeti site shows the shock uses a du bush/top hat reducer setup pinched between the dogbone/swingarm interface - looks pretty standard. it is only 15mm at the dogbone end though so the enduro kit as is won't work.

  31. #31
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    Can I install this setup with the DU tool I have already? It's the one that one of the MTBR members machines and sells on the BST. Very nice, but not as nice as the tool you show on the webpage. I want one right now...
    "It looks flexy"

  32. #32
    DGC
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    the bike

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal
    Yes, basically a Turner RFX built with the geometry and tubeset to test the original 5 spot concept of a long travel horst link trailbike. As featured in magazine ads of the day.
    When the production 5 spots were ready, DGC passed it along to me. 5 or so years later it's still my bike of choice.
    But it runs 6" rockers, it took a few years for suitable forks to arrive on the market.
    Just a few pictures from that proto type era to the 5 Spot.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Enduro shock eye needle bearing kit-picture-1613-copy.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images
    OUCH...!!!!!!

  33. #33
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    mag ad

    Quote Originally Posted by DGC
    Just a few pictures from that proto type era to the 5 Spot.
    here is the mag ad picture of the prototype.

    That was May of 2003...........time flies when your having fun.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Enduro shock eye needle bearing kit-picture-1712-copy.jpg  

    OUCH...!!!!!!

  34. #34
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    Chris,

    Looking at your SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KIT for my 2010 Reign X0, I see it's only compatible with the REDUCER SHAFT part (and not REDUCER BODY). Is this something that can be addressed with custom spacers? Unfortunately it's the body mount that causes the problems on this bike, seems the top hats are prone to tuning within the DU and the DU wears out prematurely.

    BTW, what does 'DU' stand for?

  35. #35
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    I think DU stands for dupont urethane.
    "It looks flexy"

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    Dry Unlubricated.

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    Dirty Underwear

  38. #38
    moaaar shimz
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    Domesticated Urethane

  39. #39
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    I just ordered two sets, one for the Firebird and one for the Mach 5, so i'll see how they go.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitamindimo
    Chris,

    Looking at your SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KIT for my 2010 Reign X0, I see it's only compatible with the REDUCER SHAFT part (and not REDUCER BODY). Is this something that can be addressed with custom spacers? Unfortunately it's the body mount that causes the problems on this bike, seems the top hats are prone to tuning within the DU and the DU wears out prematurely.

    BTW, what does 'DU' stand for?
    The above was answered to the OP via email, but for others who may be interested, the 2010 Reign X series frames are compatible with our kit on the upper shock mount (between the rockers). This is where the most rotation/wear occurs, so the kit will be useful in this application. The lower shock mount is integrated with an "axle" that passes through the lower link front bearings. See pics below that show the rocker link is compatible (Nominal 22mm between rocker arms) while the bottom is not. Obviously, we will start making the the needle bearing kits availble singly, the Reign X would only require 1/2 of the kit... Thanks to Luc "Acadian" Albert for the pics.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Enduro shock eye needle bearing kit-giant_2010_reign_upper_mount.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    The above was answered to the OP via email, but for others who may be interested, the 2010 Reign X series frames are compatible with our kit on the upper shock mount (between the rockers). This is where the most rotation/wear occurs, so the kit will be useful in this application. The lower shock mount is integrated with an "axle" that passes through the lower link front bearings. See pics below that show the rocker link is compatible (Nominal 22mm between rocker arms) while the bottom is not. Obviously, we will start making the the needle bearing kits availble singly, the Reign X would only require 1/2 of the kit... Thanks to Luc "Acadian" Albert for the pics.
    chris,
    i see you've updated your site to only list frames that can utilize the bearings at both ends of the shock. how soon do you anticipate offering single eyelet kits?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'size
    chris,
    i see you've updated your site to only list frames that can utilize the bearings at both ends of the shock. how soon do you anticipate offering single eyelet kits?
    Yeah, people were having trouble interpreting the chart, so we decided to only list the frames that were a fit at both ends of the shock. We'll try to have the single eyelet kits (and another chart) for the bikes that can utilize the needle bearing kit at one end of the shock in about two weeks.

  43. #43
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    so is it worth to fit the kit in both eyelets??
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    Yeah, people were having trouble interpreting the chart, so we decided to only list the frames that were a fit at both ends of the shock. We'll try to have the single eyelet kits (and another chart) for the bikes that can utilize the needle bearing kit at one end of the shock in about two weeks.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ban
    so is it worth to fit the kit in both eyelets??
    The biggest benefit is obtained at the shock end where the most rotation takes place. When both ends can be done, this is even better. Here are some examples for clarificaion:

    1) Turner 5 Spot (all years): Fits at both ends. Ideal for our kit.

    2) Giant Reign X (pics in previous post above): While the bottom cannot be converted, the end with the most rotation (rocker arm end) is a fit, so this works out well. As stated previously, we will soon start offering the kit on a "per eyelet" basis to cover this situation.

    3) Ventana El Saltamontes: Tne only end of the shock that is currently compatible with our present kit is the frame mounted end with the lowest degree of rotation. The rocker arm end is not currently a fit for our kit. In this case, it is not really worth the change. When we release more options, we hope to cover the entire Ventana line.

  45. #45
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    my Blur LT2 is suitable to be fitted with your kit so I'll be running your kit sooner or later just waiting to see it in stock in Chain Reaction Cycles in the UK to reduce shipping costs mainly!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    The biggest benefit is obtained at the shock end where the most rotation takes place. When both ends can be done, this is even better. Here are some examples for clarificaion:

    1) Turner 5 Spot (all years): Fits at both ends. Ideal for our kit.

    2) Giant Reign X (pics in previous post above): While the bottom cannot be converted, the end with the most rotation (rocker arm end) is a fit, so this works out well. As stated previously, we will soon start offering the kit on a "per eyelet" basis to cover this situation.

    3) Ventana El Saltamontes: Tne only end of the shock that is currently compatible with our present kit is the frame mounted end with the lowest degree of rotation. The rocker arm end is not currently a fit for our kit. In this case, it is not really worth the change. When we release more options, we hope to cover the entire Ventana line.

  46. #46
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    opps, btw I forgot to mention that, it's not my case as I use an air shock but may be somebody should be interested in knowing that with the new kit, it's possible you have to raise you spring rate if you are running a coil shock due to less friction with the new bearing kit?? maybe Chris can confirm that....

  47. #47
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    been following this on a parallel thread on the turner board, any more ride reports from other users?

  48. #48
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    Also would like to hear seem feedback, particularly on how much difference in suspension feel there is after. I guess it depends on how much the shock rotates, but would it generally allow the rear suspension to perform noticeably better?

  49. #49
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    [QUOTE=Chris2fur Not to mention our kit includes all the parts for both shock eyes. The one referenced above is for one end of the shock. Turns out our kit has over twice the parts at a much lower price (you have to double the $24.00 of the other kit


    Looking at the Enduro site you only get one set of bearings to fit one eyelet for $22. From the website:

    NBKRWC22 $21.99



    - 0.50" SHOCK EYELETS
    -NOMINAL FACE-TO-FACE SHOCK REDUCER WIDTH OF 22mm
    -6mm OR 8mm BOLT
    (INCLUDES PARTS FOR ONE SHOCK "EYE")

  50. #50
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    [quote=santacruzflyer][quote=Chris2fur Not to mention our kit includes all the parts for both shock eyes. The one referenced above is for one end of the shock. Turns out our kit has over twice the parts at a much lower price (you have to double the $24.00 of the other kit


    Looking at the Enduro site you only get one set of bearings to fit one eyelet for $22. From the website:

    NBKRWC22 $21.99



    - 0.50" SHOCK EYELETS
    -NOMINAL FACE-TO-FACE SHOCK REDUCER WIDTH OF 22mm
    -6mm OR 8mm BOLT
    (INCLUDES PARTS FOR ONE SHOCK "EYE")[/QUOTE]

    Yes. Post was true at the time and necessary to point out for price comparison. However, demand for single units was great and many applications have different spans at each end. Therefore, the kits are now sold on a per shock eyelet basis.

  51. #51
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    Chris, when are you coming out with kits that aren't 22mm or 40mm? Or will you be including spacers for spacings that are a little larger than these sizes? Thanks?

  52. #52
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    installed on my enduro (02-06 frames) when i changed to an rp23 (7.5x2). One of the bushings, the one that sees alot of movement was extremely stiff in the rp23- and didnt break in. The bearings made a MAJOR difference. It was immediately noticeable. While it didnt change my sag- I had to increase the air pressure in my shock to prevent blowing through travel with the decreased friction. I also get more pedal bob now... (may have to increase propedal from 1 to 2).

    it was worth the $50. i want to point out that my DU bishing was defective or something- not normal stiff. I doubt this upgrade would make as big a change with good normal DU bushings.

    on another note: I had a bike shop remove/install the DU and bearings. they charged me 25$. I find that ridiculous- be warned. I normally do all my own work and am not accustomed to paying a shop... (worked as a bike mechanic for 2 years).

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangeskill
    on another note: I had a bike shop remove/install the DU and bearings. they charged me 25$. I find that ridiculous- be warned. I normally do all my own work and am not accustomed to paying a shop... (worked as a bike mechanic for 2 years).
    Get yourself one of these:
    http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...uct=46809&cat=

    I bought one, really nice product and great price too. I have a small bench vise that I use with it, makes it super easy to remove / install DU bushings.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    Chris, when are you coming out with kits that aren't 22mm or 40mm? Or will you be including spacers for spacings that are a little larger than these sizes? Thanks?
    Last question first...Yes, we will have stainless shims for 1-2mm differences in spans. We have many more sizes coming over the next few months.

  55. #55
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    Chris,

    Do you have anything that will fit an '05 Kona Dawg?

    Thanks!

  56. #56
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    The second the 40mm kits become available, I will be ordering one.
    Build.
    Ride.
    Repeat.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TORO1968
    Chris,

    Do you have anything that will fit an '05 Kona Dawg?

    Thanks!
    Apparently that frame has a rocker span of 45.72mm. We don't have that one on the short list, but it will be gotten to over the next few months.

  58. #58
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    I put one of these kits in the top rocker arm position of my spesh pitch pro. I haven't had much of a chance to ride it yet because of injury. It was extremly tough to push the bearing into the eyelet and the movement wasn't as smooth as I was expecting. it seems to be smoother on certain positions than others.

    Also the shaft that goes through the needle bearing seems to be a very tight fit post bearing install to the eyelet. Like I have to press really hard to move it laterally through the needle bearing. Is this normal?

  59. #59
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    mine was not like this. maybe the shock eyelet or bearing are a little out of tolerance and caused the shaft to be too tight. the shaft slid right in with my installation.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime
    I put one of these kits in the top rocker arm position of my spesh pitch pro. I haven't had much of a chance to ride it yet because of injury. It was extremly tough to push the bearing into the eyelet and the movement wasn't as smooth as I was expecting. it seems to be smoother on certain positions than others.

    Also the shaft that goes through the needle bearing seems to be a very tight fit post bearing install to the eyelet. Like I have to press really hard to move it laterally through the needle bearing. Is this normal?
    No, not normal. The first indication of a problem is your statement that "It was extremely tough to push the bearing into the eyelet." This indicates a tolerance problem. If the shock eyelet is not manufactured to proper tolerances the bearing gets compressed and the inner ring (axle) clearance will be affected, as you described. The inner ring should slip right through needle bearing after it's installed. We can send another needle bearing for you to try. If the results are the same, you will need to have the shock eye polished out. Sounds weird, but you would be surprised how many parts are not manufactured to spec. I've got a shock with one of the eyelets machined too large from the factory. Contact me (chris@enduroforkseals.com) so we can get you another bearing to try.

  61. #61
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    Shock Eyelet Size and Tolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime
    I put one of these kits in the top rocker arm position of my spesh pitch pro. I haven't had much of a chance to ride it yet because of injury. It was extremly tough to push the bearing into the eyelet and the movement wasn't as smooth as I was expecting. it seems to be smoother on certain positions than others.

    Also the shaft that goes through the needle bearing seems to be a very tight fit post bearing install to the eyelet. Like I have to press really hard to move it laterally through the needle bearing. Is this normal?

    I second what Chris stated. Another item if this was a used shock and if you ever used the shock when it had play in the DU Bushings for an extended period of time could cause the eyelets to go out of round. I've seen this before. I've also seen reducers from both Fox and Rock Shox out of spec from what the Bushing manufacture states a usable shaft size.

  62. #62
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    I purchased two sets of the bearings to go on my '08 Superlight. The bearing went in nice and easy in the shaft eyelet, no problems. After installing the bearing in the body eyelet, had some problems getting the axle into the bearing. Emailed Chris at Enduro and he said there could be a problem with the tolerance of the shaft bore. With out knowing if the problem was with the bearing or the shock. Chris sent out a new bearing right away. While I was waiting for the new bearing I rode the bike with just the one bearing. It is on the end that gets the most movement and I could definitely tell an improvement. More shock movement and easier to move. When the new bearing showed up I whipped out my dremel and a sand barrel and buffing pad, worked on the body eyelet. Using the old bearing as a guide, smoothed out the bore until the old bearing would install smoothly. Installed the new bearing slid in the new axle and I was ready to go. Santa Cruz should do this as factory. Definitely smoother with better hook up and rear triangle movement. I have been riding a Superlight since 2000, with the current frame since early 2009.
    As a side note, After I purchased the bearings(I also bought some seals, the bearing install tool) and had received them, I saw on the website the 10% off for orders over $150. I emailed Chris and RWC refunded my 10% after I had already received my stuff. They sure didn't have to do that. Thanks. I will be back to purchase more for sure.

  63. #63
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    Apparently the Australian importer doesn't bring these in?

  64. #64
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    Chris2fur- I just pulled all of the bearings from my Epiphany and upgraded to Enduro bearings for the suspension parts. I looked at the list of supported models for the shock needle bearings and did not see the Epiphany listed. Is there a set that fits, or do you have one on the drawing board for the future?

    Thanks!

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979@optusnet.com.au
    Apparently the Australian importer doesn't bring these in?
    These kits are "RWC" (Real World Cycling) designed and distributed products.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by .40AET
    Chris2fur- I just pulled all of the bearings from my Epiphany and upgraded to Enduro bearings for the suspension parts. I looked at the list of supported models for the shock needle bearings and did not see the Epiphany listed. Is there a set that fits, or do you have one on the drawing board for the future?

    Thanks!
    Ellsworth kits should be ready in about a month....

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    Ellsworth kits should be ready in about a month....
    Thanks!! Put me down for one when they are ready.

  68. #68
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    Chris,
    Is the 40mm version going to have some additional beefiness?
    I have a Mojo, and the shaft end is 40mm and has a long bolt that goes through it. After some heavy riding and big jumps the bolt can get slightly bent. When it gets bent it doesn't slide out as smoothly, and I sometimes need to tap it out from the opposite side.

    BTW, your shock chart might have the bearing kit parts mixed up for the Mojo. It shows the shaft end as needing the 22mm and the body end as needing the 40mm. Should be the other way around, unless we have different thoughts on what the shaft and body are.

  69. #69
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    Chris,
    SWEET looking design!! WoW! When i showed the pics to my wife and shwed her what my bike come with (bushings) she asked the simple question:"Why didn't your bike come with those?"...............Uh I was speechless.........I told her I guessed it was the cost of the new beating kits and the installation???
    I have an '09 Orbea Oiz I JUST took my top bushings off to look at them they were dry.........I regreased. But I could not see how to remove the bottom busshing. I took out the two screws on the ends of the bottom bushing, but that was as far as I could go........is the bottom bushing pressed into the rear "Link" with such a high "negative clearance"?
    I sure want to get the needle bearing kits but because I could not get the bottom bushing out of the link I'm not syure what to do?? Thanks!
    Training on Hills Builds Character, That's How I Got To Be One!

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    Chris,
    Is the 40mm version going to have some additional beefiness?
    I have a Mojo, and the shaft end is 40mm and has a long bolt that goes through it. After some heavy riding and big jumps the bolt can get slightly bent. When it gets bent it doesn't slide out as smoothly, and I sometimes need to tap it out from the opposite side.

    BTW, your shock chart might have the bearing kit parts mixed up for the Mojo. It shows the shaft end as needing the 22mm and the body end as needing the 40mm. Should be the other way around, unless we have different thoughts on what the shaft and body are.
    The 40mm kit is a well-designed unit as far as strength goes. The spacers will overlap and capture the steel inner ring, but the same bolt you use now will be re-used in this application.

    When running the typical RP23 you are right about the body and shaft. However, if running a DHX Air, it would be the opposite. It might be better for us to list the kit references under "static frame mount" and "pivot mount" since many shocks can be flipped. Of course not all frames would fit this description, but most would.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRONMAN1518
    Chris,
    SWEET looking design!! WoW! When i showed the pics to my wife and shwed her what my bike come with (bushings) she asked the simple question:"Why didn't your bike come with those?"...............Uh I was speechless.........I told her I guessed it was the cost of the new beating kits and the installation???
    I have an '09 Orbea Oiz I JUST took my top bushings off to look at them they were dry.........I regreased. But I could not see how to remove the bottom busshing. I took out the two screws on the ends of the bottom bushing, but that was as far as I could go........is the bottom bushing pressed into the rear "Link" with such a high "negative clearance"?
    I sure want to get the needle bearing kits but because I could not get the bottom bushing out of the link I'm not syure what to do?? Thanks!
    Hmm. If you took out "two screws at the ends of the bottom bushing" but the shock would not pull out, I'm guessing that there may be a metal sleeve threaded at each end (for the screws) and that after you remove the screws, you should partly thread one back in and tap on it to start the sleeve/axle pin out. When this center sleeve/axle is removed, the shock should pull right out of the center of the linkage. Does this make sense? Keep in mind I'm guessing here based on what you said. I don't have a parts blow-up of this frame model.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    These kits are "RWC" (Real World Cycling) designed and distributed products.
    Ah, my mistake. Thanks.

  73. #73
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    I'm about to intall my kit on the bike. The kit come with a little pack of grease and I'm wondering if it's to be used during the install or for regreasing the bearing after some use. Are there any install instructions?

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by sazaks
    I'm about to intall my kit on the bike. The kit come with a little pack of grease and I'm wondering if it's to be used during the install or for regreasing the bearing after some use. Are there any install instructions?
    If you scroll down and read the details on the relevant web page, we mention the lube that is included: "A small amount of our best bearing lube, Realube Bearing Compound is included for prepping the needle bearing and initial lubrication of the spacer seals." Basically, spread the grease inside the needle bearing, on the inner ring ("axle"), and on the faces of the seals. Wipe off the excess after everything is assembled.

    Thanks!

  75. #75
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    Chris, I have a 09 Diamondback Sortie, is there a kit available, I know the size is 22mm by 6mm top and bottom.
    ~~~~~~Singletrack Slayer~~~~~~~

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidNeiles
    Chris, I have a 09 Diamondback Sortie, is there a kit available, I know the size is 22mm by 6mm top and bottom.
    We did not have any 2009 data, but it makes sense that it's the same as the 08 models. Just don't like to assume... Since you know each end has a span of 22mm, then the NBKRWC22 is the correct kit for either end. Obviously the most rotation takes place at the KB connection. I've seen pics of the Knucklebox design, but never seen it in action, so I don't know how much pivoting takes place at the upper frame mount. If the shock does not pivot at that end, you may want to just convert the other end.

  77. #77
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    Thanks, yes the 07-09 would be the same for a Mission or Sortie. The bottom one at the Knuckle Box is where it moves a lot and gets some play, stock DU bushing lasted over a year. Top is fine.
    ~~~~~~Singletrack Slayer~~~~~~~

  78. #78
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    Chris
    Thanks for the info you were correct, it is a threaded sleeve in my Orbea. I called them and they said the same thing. It is pressed in the bushings. I got it out, cleaned it, re-greased it, locktiteed the screws and tightened them.
    I dunno if it is all inna my head but the rear end felt "smoother" than before......thanks again!!
    Training on Hills Builds Character, That's How I Got To Be One!

  79. #79
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    Does this work with RockShox rear shocks e.g. the Monarch (which I understand also use 1/2inch bushings) ?

    I read the posts above about working with any 1/2in shock, but noticed there are not any RS shocks on the compatibilty list on the Enduro site.

    Thanks

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro83
    Does this work with RockShox rear shocks e.g. the Monarch (which I understand also use 1/2inch bushings) ?

    I read the posts above about working with any 1/2in shock, but noticed there are not any RS shocks on the compatibilty list on the Enduro site.

    Thanks
    Yes, the Monarch and Vivid are the only RS shocks that have the same shock eye spec as the Fox, so they will work.

  81. #81
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    Yes, the Monarch and Vivid are the only RS shocks that have the same shock eye spec as the Fox, so they will work.
    Great, thanks very much!

  82. #82
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    Just got mine, great product.
    Last edited by oldskoolbiker; 03-19-2010 at 10:51 AM.

  83. #83
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    Edit: post content no longer relevant.
    Last edited by Chris2fur; 03-19-2010 at 11:00 AM.

  84. #84
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    Chris2fur-Any news if a kit will be made for '07-09 Specialized Enduro SL's? (specifically carbon frame (Al and carbon frames in this series use diff. lower bushings)). Thanks

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3xv
    Chris2fur-Any news if a kit will be made for '07-09 Specialized Enduro SL's? (specifically carbon frame (Al and carbon frames in this series use diff. lower bushings)). Thanks
    It's not in our database, but if you can get accurate measurements at these two points on the bike, we will know if we can do it or not:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Enduro shock eye needle bearing kit-spe_08_pitch_upper_link.jpg  

    Enduro shock eye needle bearing kit-spe_08_pitch_lower_link.jpg  


  86. #86
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    Chris- Thank you for your immediate response. As soon as I get home I'll bust out the caliper and measure indicated areas in the illustration. Thanks again. Have a great weekend ahead.

  87. #87
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    Posted in wrong forum, please disregard.
    Last edited by oldskoolbiker; 03-19-2010 at 10:53 AM.

  88. #88
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    would this kit fit my 08 Turner DHR w/RS Vivid or does it only work with Fox?

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by dereka15
    would this kit fit my 08 Turner DHR w/RS Vivid or does it only work with Fox?
    That's a match. Unlike other RS shocks, the Vivid and Monarch shocks have the same size eyelets as the Fox shocks.

  90. #90
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    Anyone has found some play between the supplied steel axle and the needle bearings?

    A friend of mine and me feel some play (like a worn DU bushing knock) when we pick up the bike from the saddle slightly.

    Chris has told me it is normal, but I just want to know from others what their experience has been.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya
    Anyone has found some play between the supplied steel axle and the needle bearings?

    A friend of mine and me feel some play (like a worn DU bushing knock) when we pick up the bike from the saddle slightly.

    Chris has told me it is normal, but I just want to know from others what their experience has been.
    Geez, tacubaya--thanks for the vote of confidence....

    For the record, clearances are designed into the needle bearing/inner ring unit. If they were not, binding and damage to the rollers and/or inner ring would occur. The small amount of detectible play is part of the near frictionless performance of the needle bearing system. Incidentally, the play referred to will never be discernable under riding conditions, only if you are off the bike, lifting up on the saddle. If this keeps certain individuals from sleeping, a heavier grease could be used.

  92. #92
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    Hey Chris, thanks for the response.

    I am confident in what you say, but I just want to know the experience from others. Your explanation is logical and polite, so I am not in the need of defying it nor denying it.

    There is supposed to be some play between the steel axle and needles, but what if the eyelet dimensions are increasing/decreasing this amount of play?

    How should we know when the eyelet dimensions are correct and the play we are getting is the "right one", and when is the eyelet a bit too large and we are getting some more play than what is meant for?

    That's my hypothesis. It seems eyelet tolerances are a big factor on the needle bearing performance and there is no reference to compare the play in the interface to.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya
    Hey Chris, thanks for the response.

    I am confident in what you say, but I just want to know the experience from others. Your explanation is logical and polite, so I am not in the need of defying it nor denying it.

    There is supposed to be some play between the steel axle and needles, but what if the eyelet dimensions are increasing/decreasing this amount of play?

    How should we know when the eyelet dimensions are correct and the play we are getting is the "right one", and when is the eyelet a bit too large and we are getting some more play than what is meant for?

    That's my hypothesis. It seems eyelet tolerances are a big factor on the needle bearing performance and there is no reference to compare the play in the interface to.
    OK, I see. We did not talk about that. Generally speaking, eyelet tolerances only affect the performance if they are undersized and compress the needle bearing. This can certainly happen. I assume that the needle bearing required pressing into place as opposed to sliding into the eyelet by hand, right? If so, then you are good to go. The problem would be if the needle bearing cup were compressed enough to remove the play. In fact I am running a needle bearing kit on Rocco shock that had an oversized eyelet and required Loctite to retain the bearing cup in the shock eye. It works very well with no ill effects. On the other hand, if the cup were compressed and any binding on the inner ring could be detected, the shock eye would need to be enlarged using a Dremel sanding drum.

    The quest to remove all play from bearings causes problems in all sorts of applications. We especially encounter it with wheels, where overzealous "adjusting" not only slows the wheel down but wears the bearings prematurely.

  94. #94
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    It seems the Roco shocks have over sized eyelets because my friend's shock and my shock is a Roco. He pushed the bearing almost by hand and I used a bench vice but it came in easily.

    But, wouldn't the excess play cause the forces generated in suspension activity to flatten or damage the needles?

  95. #95
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    What about the newest redesigned Cane Creek Double Barrel?

    I have not measured the diameter of the eyelets, but they seem to be the same size as my Roco.

    I heard a rumor that they reduced the size to the 1/2 inch standard is this correct?

    If the newest CCDB is not 1/2 standard, then does RWC plan on making a reducer for the CCDB?

    The bushings in mine are so damn tight I can hardly push the shafts out.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya
    It seems the Roco shocks have over sized eyelets because my friend's shock and my shock is a Roco. He pushed the bearing almost by hand and I used a bench vice but it came in easily.

    But, wouldn't the excess play cause the forces generated in suspension activity to flatten or damage the needles?
    You are presuming to use the word "excess." As I have already stated, there is far more risk of damaging the rollers when there is not enough clearance. How about putting some good trail miles on the bike and let me know how you like the performance? What do you have to lose? If I am wrong and the bearings are damaged, I'll be happy to refund your money or send new ones.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    You are presuming to use the word "excess." As I have already stated, there is far more risk of damaging the rollers when there is not enough clearance. How about putting some good trail miles on the bike and let me know how you like the performance? What do you have to lose? If I am wrong and the bearings are damaged, I'll be happy to refund your money or send new ones.
    Well, the needle bearing has about 45 miles already, and I am NOT criticizing the performance (as I can't feel the play while riding), just the fact that I am picky and I don't like picking my bike up and feeling play, especially the horrible feeling that there is a worn DU busing down there.

    So don't feel I am attacking your product Chris, it works... and it works very well. I am just pointing out that some play is felt in the linkage and I wanted to know if other users feel it as well (not because I don't trust you, but because I am curious).

    Thanks for all the attention you've given me Chris, definitely you give good quality customer service!

  98. #98
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    Chris, I see that the new sizes are up on the website. What do I do if I have sizes like 34mm and 43mm? Spacers/washers? Will these be included if so? Thanks.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    Chris, I see that the new sizes are up on the website. What do I do if I have sizes like 34mm and 43mm? Spacers/washers? Will these be included if so? Thanks.
    We will have 0.5mm stainless shims specific for 6mm or 8mm hardware that can be used to adapt for spans that fall between our standard kits. They will be available separately. We hope to eventually have most sizes covered without shims being required.

    Here's an example of how to use the shims with our 40mm kit to adapt to your 43mm span (3 shims on each side--a bit tricky to assemble):
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Enduro shock eye needle bearing kit-proper_shim_use.jpg  


  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    We will have 0.5mm stainless shims specific for 6mm or 8mm hardware that can be used to adapt for spans that fall between our standard kits. They will be available separately. We hope to eventually have most sizes covered without shims being required.

    Here's an example of how to use the shims with our 40mm kit to adapt to your 43mm span (3 shims on each side--a bit tricky to assemble):
    So, when will the 40mm kits be available? Don't know how much longer I can stand to wait. (2K Intense Tracer Vanilla RL).

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