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  1. #1
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    Attention Fox TALAS Experts - Help Please!

    Hello. I have a 2009 Fox 36 TALAS RC2, with the TALAS III system, and unfortunately the TALAS travel adjustment is no longer working properly, I'm hoping someone can help me out. Also, let me just apologize in advance for the long winded post. First of all, some background info. I had both an '09 VAN RC2 and an '09 TALAS RC2. I love the travel adjustments on the TALAS, but wanted the black lowers of the VAN, so I replaced the coil spring assembly in the VAN with the TALAS air cartridge. The conversion went smoothly and the fork has been functioning great for the last few months, until recently. On a recent ride, the fork became stuck down in the 130mm setting, and would not extend back out to the 160mm setting. So, I pulled the TALAS air cartridge out, and took it apart to try and figure out what the problem was.

    Here's a picture of the TALAS III assembly, disassembled:


    In the Fox service manuals, it says that in the travel adjustment ports in the side of the outer tube you should be able to see red through the 2 outer sets of 2 port holes, and a brass color through the middle set of 4 port holes. And this was the case a few months ago when I did the VAN to TALAS conversion. Upon pulling it apart this time however, I noticed that I could see red through 1 outer set of port holes (left arrow in the picture below), I could sort of see a brass color in the middle set of port holes (middle arrow below), and I could not see any color, just black, through the other set of outer port holes (right arrow below). Now, the service manual says that you should see those colors through the port holes, but doesn't say what to do if you don't see those colors. Obviously, there's a problem.


    So, I proceeded to take the TALAS upper assembly apart, to see if I could figure out the problem. Here's a picture of the TALAS upper assembly, disassembled:


    When I removed the outer tube from the rest of the upper assembly, I noticed another possible problem. There's a rod inside the outer tube that came sliding out. The Fox service manuals make no mention at all of this little rod, which leads me to believe that it's not supposed to come sliding out like that (if it were supposed to, then I'm convinced the service manuals would've made mention of it). Could the outer tube internals be broken somehow? Is this rod supposed to be attached in there? The arrow in the picture below shows the rod I'm referring to, partially out of the outer tube:


    And, here's a picture of the rod, completely removed from the outer tube:


    So, does anyone have any ideas as to what the problem might be? How come I'm not seeing the colors I'm supposed to through some of the port holes in the outer tube of the upper assembly, and how do I fix it so that I do? And what is that rod? Should it be attached inside the outer tube, and not come sliding out like that?

    Also, something that may be important to note is that I put it all back together again with fresh oil and FLOAT fluid, even though I know something's wrong, just to see what would happen. As expected, the TALAS travel adjustment was still not working properly. So, upon pulling it apart once again I noticed that everything was covered in black oil, not the clean oil and fluid I had put in it when I reassembled it. This may just be due to me not cleaning out the inside of the lower/stanchion prior to reassembling, but thought it was worth mentioning anyways.

    So, anyone have any advice for me? Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
    MattSavage
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    Can't help you with the internals... But I'm curious why you didn't just swap lowers?
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

    Have Ashtray, Will Travel....

  3. #3
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    Because I wanted to keep the black crown from the VAN to match the black lowers, instead of the gray TALAS crown that matches the gray TALAS lowers.

  4. #4
    MattSavage
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    Ooooh... makes sense.
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

    Have Ashtray, Will Travel....

  5. #5
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    I hear you on the color thing.... I was shoping for something other than the Talas until they brought black back for 2011.

    I did hear that the lowers on talas are different then VAN in that they machine the inside to a more clear finish... I just assumed that was for fitment or travel settings, but perhaps that caused an issue for you?

  6. #6
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    Interesting. That's the first I've heard of that, VAN & TALAS lowers being different. Before doing the conversion, I asked around and the consensus was that the lowers are exactly the same. Can anyone confirm this?

    However, after I did the conversion, everything was working great for a few months (3-4 days a week of use), so I'm not sure what would've suddenly caused the problem.

  7. #7
    Surfing trails
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    Fox told me last year that you couldn't swap Van lowers for Talas or Float lowers because the Van lowers are not anodized on the inside in order to keep them airtight. Since Van forks are not air forks they don't need as much treatment on the inside surface of the lowers to operate efficiently. But apparently Fox heard about this from enough folks that now all of their 2011 Talas forks are black.

  8. #8
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    Ok, so it's true. Talked to Fox tech support. You can't go from a VAN to a TALAS, but you can go from a TALAS to a VAN. Inside of spring side stanchion is different. I've already switched mine back. Good thing I didn't ride the VAN in the TALAS body.

    Still doesn't explain the problem with my TALAS cart. Still need to get that fixed. Any ideas?

  9. #9
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    Bump... No TALAS experts? I thought for sure someone on here would know what the problem is.

  10. #10
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    you shoulde'nt dissamble the all thing

    you just have to close the 1.5 hex bolt in the bottom of the talas top cart until the brass thing can be seen throu the midlle hole.

    sorry for my sppeling

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevegal
    Fox told me last year that you couldn't swap Van lowers for Talas or Float lowers because the Van lowers are not anodized on the inside in order to keep them airtight. Since Van forks are not air forks they don't need as much treatment on the inside surface of the lowers to operate efficiently. But apparently Fox heard about this from enough folks that now all of their 2011 Talas forks are black.
    Rubbish,
    The Floats and the TALAS systems are a closed system. (The lowers are not designed to hold any air, just oil). You are able to drop the lowers to do a seal/oil service without worrying about discharging the fork (unless there is a leak).

    I don't see why, for example, a 36R float lower will not work with say a 36 Van R - same foot nuts, and bushing diameter, and length - never done it though

  12. #12
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    I don't know what is causing your issue, but their are more parts inside that tube. There are short colored sleeves separated by tiny o-rings. One of those o-rings might be bad allowing air to go somewhere it shouldn't.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by assaf_angel
    you just have to close the 1.5 hex bolt in the bottom of the talas top cart until the brass thing can be seen throu the midlle hole.
    Thanks, I didn't even know that adjustment was there. I tried tightening that little bolt (and loosening) to see what would happen. I can now see red through both sets of outer port holes, but I can no longer see the brass color through the middle port holes. Weird! Something is obviously wrong in there.


    Quote Originally Posted by cort
    Rubbish,
    The Floats and the TALAS systems are a closed system. (The lowers are not designed to hold any air, just oil). You are able to drop the lowers to do a seal/oil service without worrying about discharging the fork (unless there is a leak).

    I don't see why, for example, a 36R float lower will not work with say a 36 Van R - same foot nuts, and bushing diameter, and length - never done it though
    That's what I thought too. But I did get confirmation from Fox tech support that you cannot go from a VAN to a TALAS/FLOAT, however you can go from a TALAS/FLOAT to a VAN. When I was switching them back I had a look inside the lowers & stanchions on each fork. The lowers do look the same inside, however the inside of the spring side stanchion is different. There seems to be a different material coating the inside of the stanchion on the VAN, not sure what it is, but the 2 are definitely different. Something I didn't notice when I did the original conversion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raja
    I don't know what is causing your issue, but their are more parts inside that tube. There are short colored sleeves separated by tiny o-rings. One of those o-rings might be bad allowing air to go somewhere it shouldn't.
    This is likely what the issue is. Problem is however, I have no idea how to take the tube apart to check it out. No mention is made of this in the Fox service manuals. Have you done this before? I can remove the little bolt that assaf_angel was referring to above, and a little tiny spring that sits behind the bolt comes out with it, however I'm unsure of how to proceed with the disassembly after that. Anyone have any experience with this?

    Thanks for all the help everyone, I appreciate it.

  14. #14
    rider of bicycles
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    Where did you find the Fox service manual for the TALAS system? My 2010 36 TALAS is misbehaving; the travel adjust feature isn't working anymore, it's always at 160mm of travel now. And, btw, to the OP, I think that's the TALAS II, not III.

    (before some smarta$$ says "check the Fox website, duh", I already did, and all they have is an owner's manual for the 2010 TALAS III)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa
    Where did you find the Fox service manual for the TALAS system?
    It can be found in the Tech Center section on the Fox website: http://service.foxracingshox.com/consumers/index.htm


    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa
    And, btw, to the OP, I think that's the TALAS II, not III.
    No, it's the TALAS III, I'm sure of it (it's a MY 2009 fork). What makes you think it's a TALAS II?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerider
    It can be found in the Tech Center section on the Fox website: http://service.foxracingshox.com/consumers/index.htm




    No, it's the TALAS III, I'm sure of it (it's a MY 2009 fork). What makes you think it's a TALAS II?

    Thanks for the link, I knew Fox had service info, but couldn't find it.
    I think I was wrong about the TALAS II comment, I thought that because my MY10 TALAS has a different adjuster cap, and I thought that's how you could tell the difference between them, but looking at the service manual makes me think for MY10 they just changed the top cap, and the internals have been TALAS III since before MY10. In the service manual, TALAS II looks completely different. Sorry about that...

  17. #17
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    it's very hard to fix ones you crack the thing apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Freerider
    Thanks, I didn't even know that adjustment was there. I tried tightening that little bolt (and loosening) to see what would happen. I can now see red through both sets of outer port holes, but I can no longer see the brass color through the middle port holes. Weird! Something is obviously wrong in there.




    That's what I thought too. But I did get confirmation from Fox tech support that you cannot go from a VAN to a TALAS/FLOAT, however you can go from a TALAS/FLOAT to a VAN. When I was switching them back I had a look inside the lowers & stanchions on each fork. The lowers do look the same inside, however the inside of the spring side stanchion is different. There seems to be a different material coating the inside of the stanchion on the VAN, not sure what it is, but the 2 are definitely different. Something I didn't notice when I did the original conversion.




    This is likely what the issue is. Problem is however, I have no idea how to take the tube apart to check it out. No mention is made of this in the Fox service manuals. Have you done this before? I can remove the little bolt that assaf_angel was referring to above, and a little tiny spring that sits behind the bolt comes out with it, however I'm unsure of how to proceed with the disassembly after that. Anyone have any experience with this?

    Thanks for all the help everyone, I appreciate it.
    you have to take all the internals out side by order and then assemble it all together with all the tiny o rings and replace any worn o ring if you see one.
    the assembly is very hard .you need to put all the parts together without damage the o rings.
    then put 5 cc of oil and it should work

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by assaf_angel
    you have to take all the internals out side by order and then assemble it all together with all the tiny o rings and replace any worn o ring if you see one.
    the assembly is very hard .you need to put all the parts together without damage the o rings.
    then put 5 cc of oil and it should work
    The assembly shouldn't be too hard, as I have found the following diagram (from the Fox service site) to show the order in which everything goes back together:


    The problem is however trying to figure out how to disassemble the outer tube to get out all those internal parts so that they can be inspected for damage. The rod that came sliding out, as explained in my initial post, is "Inner Tube Valve 4" in the diagram. The rest of the inner tube valves and o-rings don't slide out the way the other one did. Any idea how to get them out of there?

    And, when you say put in 5cc of oil, do you mean pour 5cc of float fluid into the outer tube after the inner tube valves and o-rings have been put back in?

    Thanks again for the help!

  19. #19
    rider of bicycles
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    I think I'm at the same point you are- it appears that one or more little o-rings inside that valve tube need replacing on mine.

  20. #20
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    Were you able to remove the inner tube valves and o-rings from the outer tube? Apparently they can just be pushed through using an old spoke or something similar. I will be doing that tonight.

  21. #21
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    I probably could have, but didn't try it since I don't have new ones yet. If you take the small hollow set screw out of the bottom (p/n 018-01-27 above), then you should be able to just push everything out the bottom. I think.

  22. #22
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    Yes, you take the 018-01-27 screw out, along with the tapered spring and ball. Then you can stick a spoke (or something similar) in there and push everything out the other end (the larger end without the insert). At least this is what I was told to do. I'll be trying it tonight, to inspect the inner tube valves and o-rings for damage.

    How do you know you need new o-rings, if you haven't looked at them yet? When you look through the port holes in the outer tube, do you see red through the 2 sets of outer holes, and brass through the inner holes?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerider
    How do you know you need new o-rings, if you haven't looked at them yet? When you look through the port holes in the outer tube, do you see red through the 2 sets of outer holes, and brass through the inner holes?
    Because when I put the inner rod (the one connected to the travel adjust knob) back in, when it passed through the o-rings, it felt like they were damaged. I'm not completely sure that's the problem, but it didn't feel right. And, now, thinking about how the system works, I'm going to inspect the check ball at the bottom again- I don't remember that moving as freely as it probably should.

  24. #24
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    If your fork is a MY 2010, then it's most likely still under warranty. Why don't you just send it back to Fox to have the TALAS serviced? That way you can ensure all damaged parts are replaced and everything is working properly, free of charge.

    My fork is just out of warranty, hence why I'm doing this myself to save a few bucks, not to mention to learn how it works.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerider
    If your fork is a MY 2010, then it's most likely still under warranty. Why don't you just send it back to Fox to have the TALAS serviced? That way you can ensure all damaged parts are replaced and everything is working properly, free of charge.

    My fork is just out of warranty, hence why I'm doing this myself to save a few bucks, not to mention to learn how it works.
    Because my shock just got back from warranty, and it took about 3 weeks. I was OK with that since I happened to have another shock that I could use in the mean time.

    I don't have another fork, and I'm not willing to wait 3 weeks.

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