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  1. #26
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    Ah, I understand, makes sense. I actually have a DHX air that's back at Fox for warranty, and they've had it for over a month now. Like you, I have another shock to ride, but I wouldn't be very happy if I couldn't ride this whole time. Also have the VAN fork to ride while I'm figuring out my TALAS issues, so fortunately no down time for me. I thought Fox service in the US was much faster than up here in Canada, but I guess not!

  2. #27
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    really interesting topic here, I had strange talas (36 2009) behaviour and opened the talas part.
    Did all explained here BUT the proper positioning of the 1.5hex nut.
    So my talas now perform from 100 to 120 instead of 130, no problem for 160 position.
    all ok from 160 to 130, from 130 to 100 sometimes it stops at 110.
    I think there is something with the internal o'rings or the hex nut not well positioned, I'll investigate as soon as I remove the talas to fit the VAN spring.

    I purchased an used VAN 36 160 coil spring to replace the talas system and I'm looking for a 36 VAN CAP to replace the TALAS CAP.

    I read that you can swap from TALAS to VAN, but changing what exactly?

    of course the upper CAP, the coil spring ... and then ? all I need are these parts?
    the inner shaft of the talas system is different that the van one, but this talas shaft could be ok with the VAN coil spring? does the coil usage will damage that talas shaft? Of course I would like to swap back to TALAS for long climbing epic rides.. this is the question.

    cheers from Italy! :O)

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybern
    really interesting topic here, I had strange talas (36 2009) behaviour and opened the talas part.
    Did all explained here BUT the proper positioning of the 1.5hex nut.
    So my talas now perform from 100 to 120 instead of 130, no problem for 160 position.
    all ok from 160 to 130, from 130 to 100 sometimes it stops at 110.
    I think there is something with the internal o'rings or the hex nut not well positioned, I'll investigate as soon as I remove the talas to fit the VAN spring.

    I purchased an used VAN 36 160 coil spring to replace the talas system and I'm looking for a 36 VAN CAP to replace the TALAS CAP.

    I read that you can swap from TALAS to VAN, but changing what exactly?

    of course the upper CAP, the coil spring ... and then ? all I need are these parts?
    the inner shaft of the talas system is different that the van one, but this talas shaft could be ok with the VAN coil spring? does the coil usage will damage that talas shaft? Of course I would like to swap back to TALAS for long climbing epic rides.. this is the question.

    cheers from Italy! :O)
    Yes you can do the swap. But please keep in mind that once you do, you will no tbe able to re-install the TALAS assembly due to the spring scratching the inner stanchion wall. For the TALAS system to function properly the inner stanchion wall MUST be smooth and free of any marks

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cort
    Yes you can do the swap. But please keep in mind that once you do, you will no tbe able to re-install the TALAS assembly due to the spring scratching the inner stanchion wall. For the TALAS system to function properly the inner stanchion wall MUST be smooth and free of any marks
    ok thank you, this is the info I was looking for

    unfortunately this means no "talas to van" convertion

    that's life.

    cheers

  5. #30
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    Also the vans have a hydraulic bottom out circuit which the (08 and later?) TALAS forks lack, so you might find the fork would be a bit too linear and prone to bottoming out.
    Alas, that the longest hill
    Must end in a vale

    Henry Charles Beeching 1859-1919

  6. #31
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    Sorry, I'm just confusing things here. some MY of the talas do have the BO circuit, some don't, but I'm not really sure which is which
    Alas, that the longest hill
    Must end in a vale

    Henry Charles Beeching 1859-1919

  7. #32
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    @ Freerider:
    what was the result of your findings? Did you fixed it?

    I have currently the problem (32 2009):
    1) The talas is not working (always at 140mm)
    2) The fork rebound extremely slow

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackfreak View Post
    @ Freerider:
    what was the result of your findings? Did you fixed it?

    I have currently the problem (32 2009):
    1) The talas is not working (always at 140mm)
    2) The fork rebound extremely slow
    Yes, I was able to fix the problem. Inside the TALAS assembly outer tube, there was a little tiny o-ring with a tear in it. Once this was replaced it worked again. I ordered the TALAS assembly rebuild kit, which comes with all of the necessary o-rings. I also replaced the other o-rings for good measure. It sounds like you may be having a similar problem with your TALAS cart.

    As for the rebound issue, that doesn't sound like it would be related to the TALAS air spring. That seems like it might be a problem with your dampening cartridge in the other fork leg, as this is the cartridge that controls rebound and compression. I'm not sure, but it sounds like you might be having problems with both the air spring, and the cartridge.

  9. #34
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    Good to hear you got your fork working again. I have a 2010 Talas 160 and will be taking it in again.

    Bought the fork used, but with only a few rides on it (it could have passed for new). Road the fork for about 6-8 months and started to notice is didn't feel as smooth & responsive as before. Took it in to have the oil changed and also properly setup for me. When I got it back it felt very nice again.

    Started to ride the bike (6&6 AM bike) on more technically difficult trails and really started to like the 36 chassis in terms of the almost total lack of flex and feel of the fork. That is when the Talas stopped working. Fork was stuck at full travel, which was actually closer to 170mm, no matter which setting the Talas dial was on. Took it back in to have it fixed, shop reset the Talas mechanism and all was good again, but for a much shorter interval.

    Only got a few rides on it, primarily leaving it in the mid travel position and riding some technical XC rides on the shore. Then I did one extended ride that had a boat load of descending at had the fork at full travel for the day. Noticed at the end of the day the Talas was no longer working.

    Will be taking it back in this week for repair again. Was told that the 3 position Talas will go out of adjustment if ridden aggressively, especially if used in a lower travel setting.

    I really hope this was just a glitch as I like the stiffness of the 36 chassis and how the fork feels when it works. The other key is the Talas feature, lowest travel for short steep climbs, mid travel for tighter trails and better handling on corners, and full travel for steeper and rougher terrain.

    Can anyone else comment on this or advise on their experience in using a Talas fork for more than just trail riding. Can the Talas 36 handle light free riding and work without being serviced every 10-15 hours?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    Good to hear you got your fork working again. I have a 2010 Talas 160 and will be taking it in again.

    Bought the fork used, but with only a few rides on it (it could have passed for new). Road the fork for about 6-8 months and started to notice is didn't feel as smooth & responsive as before. Took it in to have the oil changed and also properly setup for me. When I got it back it felt very nice again.

    Started to ride the bike (6&6 AM bike) on more technically difficult trails and really started to like the 36 chassis in terms of the almost total lack of flex and feel of the fork. That is when the Talas stopped working. Fork was stuck at full travel, which was actually closer to 170mm, no matter which setting the Talas dial was on. Took it back in to have it fixed, shop reset the Talas mechanism and all was good again, but for a much shorter interval.

    Only got a few rides on it, primarily leaving it in the mid travel position and riding some technical XC rides on the shore. Then I did one extended ride that had a boat load of descending at had the fork at full travel for the day. Noticed at the end of the day the Talas was no longer working.

    Will be taking it back in this week for repair again. Was told that the 3 position Talas will go out of adjustment if ridden aggressively, especially if used in a lower travel setting.

    I really hope this was just a glitch as I like the stiffness of the 36 chassis and how the fork feels when it works. The other key is the Talas feature, lowest travel for short steep climbs, mid travel for tighter trails and better handling on corners, and full travel for steeper and rougher terrain.

    Can anyone else comment on this or advise on their experience in using a Talas fork for more than just trail riding. Can the Talas 36 handle light free riding and work without being serviced every 10-15 hours?
    I've ridden mine pretty hard, and other than the above problem with the TALAS cart, there have been no problems. I give it a basic service regularly though to keep it running smooth.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerider View Post
    I've ridden mine pretty hard, and other than the above problem with the TALAS cart, there have been no problems. I give it a basic service regularly though to keep it running smooth.
    Thx for the response. What type of service are you doing and how often?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    Thx for the response. What type of service are you doing and how often?
    Just a basic oil change about every month or 2, depending on use (drop the lowers, drain the oil, clean out inside of lowers and stanchions, new oil). And a full rebuild of the damp cart about twice a year (it's a fully sealed unit so takes a while to become contaminated). As for the TALAS air spring assembly, I never service this. Only time I've had it apart and given it a service was when I was having the above issue. It's much more complicated to pull apart, so I avoid it!

  13. #38
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    I've had alot of problems with my 2010 talas cart.
    Sent it in 2 times under warranty.
    It seemed to go out pretty quickly each time it came back.
    After the last time about a year ago it seemed to work well for the following 6 months or so.
    But the last few months it has been hit or miss.
    Sometimes it works, sometimes not.
    I mostly only use the 160-130 setting these days.
    I've gotten pretty tired of it so I just ordered a float cart to convert it over.
    I was at downieville last year and had to do the whole ride pretty much stuck at 100mm, which really sucked.
    Felt like going OTB the whole time, and actually did once.
    It was weird because mine would usually stick at the 160 setting.
    On that trip, it would sag all the way down to 100.
    I would get off the bike and it would lift up to 160.
    Then reweight the bike and slowly sag to 100.
    I didn't realise it was happening until about half way through the ride, but was wondering why I felt so sketched out prior to that.
    I hope the system has been simplified with the newer forks being as they only have 2 settings now.

    BTW, I service my bath oil every couple months or so.
    Probably due for a damper service as well, but all feels good.
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerider View Post
    Yes, I was able to fix the problem. Inside the TALAS assembly outer tube, there was a little tiny o-ring with a tear in it. Once this was replaced it worked again. I ordered the TALAS assembly rebuild kit, which comes with all of the necessary o-rings. I also replaced the other o-rings for good measure. It sounds like you may be having a similar problem with your TALAS cart.

    As for the rebound issue, that doesn't sound like it would be related to the TALAS air spring. That seems like it might be a problem with your dampening cartridge in the other fork leg, as this is the cartridge that controls rebound and compression. I'm not sure, but it sounds like you might be having problems with both the air spring, and the cartridge.
    Thank for your fast response!

    Why I think the slow rebound could be a side effect of the defect Talas:
    1) Change the rebound setting take effect, that mean that with an open rebound the fork uncompress faster as with an closed rebound.
    2) I think that the Talas now don't compress the air as it should. It easy let the air go from one part of the system to the other. (I do not know if this could be technically possible - what do you think?). For information: the fork did not lose the pressure of 120psi.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackfreak View Post
    Thank for your fast response!

    Why I think the slow rebound could be a side effect of the defect Talas:
    1) Change the rebound setting take effect, that mean that with an open rebound the fork uncompress faster as with an closed rebound.
    2) I think that the Talas now don't compress the air as it should. It easy let the air go from one part of the system to the other. (I do not know if this could be technically possible - what do you think?). For information: the fork did not lose the pressure of 120psi.
    Yes, I believe air can escape from one "chamber" within the TALAS cart to another, most likely because one of the little tiny o-rings I previously mentioned needs to be replaced (as I had to do). You can pull it apart to look for a damaged o-ring, and replace as necessary with the TALAS cart rebuild kit. There are instructions on how to do so in the Fox website service section, as well as exploded diagrams of all of the parts. However, word of warning, it's a fairly complex assembly, and is not a simple job to disassemble/reassemble.

    Also, why are you running so much pressure (120 PSI)? That seems really high. I run mine about 60 PSI, and I'm 200 lbs (I'm on a 2009 36 TALAS).

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by savagemann View Post
    I've had alot of problems with my 2010 talas cart.
    Sent it in 2 times under warranty.
    It seemed to go out pretty quickly each time it came back.
    After the last time about a year ago it seemed to work well for the following 6 months or so.
    But the last few months it has been hit or miss.
    Sometimes it works, sometimes not.
    I mostly only use the 160-130 setting these days.
    I've gotten pretty tired of it so I just ordered a float cart to convert it over.
    I was at downieville last year and had to do the whole ride pretty much stuck at 100mm, which really sucked.
    Felt like going OTB the whole time, and actually did once.
    It was weird because mine would usually stick at the 160 setting.
    On that trip, it would sag all the way down to 100.
    I would get off the bike and it would lift up to 160.
    Then reweight the bike and slowly sag to 100.
    I didn't realise it was happening until about half way through the ride, but was wondering why I felt so sketched out prior to that.
    I hope the system has been simplified with the newer forks being as they only have 2 settings now.

    BTW, I service my bath oil every couple months or so.
    Probably due for a damper service as well, but all feels good.
    Yes, the TALAS cart does seem to cause alot of people problems, including myself. As a result, I'm also thinking about going FLOAT on my next fork (I actually don't use the travel adjust much anymore anyways).

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerider View Post
    Yes, the TALAS cart does seem to cause alot of people problems, including myself. As a result, I'm also thinking about going FLOAT on my next fork (I actually don't use the travel adjust much anymore anyways).
    I have a 2010 Manitou Minute 140 with the Absolute damping that will go on while the 36 is in for servicing.

    At 140mm travel I can ride most of what I normally ride. Use a little more body english on the steep climbs and get back a little further on the steeps. Despite having only low speed compression adjustment, the Minute damping works very well.

    Unfortunately Manitou's 32mm stanchions are pushed on their 160mm Nixon line (not produced any longer). If Manitou continues with it's re-introduction of products and creates a proper 130 - 160 travel adjust air fork with their TPC+ (now called Absolute+) damping, i would be in line to get one. The high speed compression right out of the box plain and simple works as well or better than my Talas 36. Fox better take note, as the new Manitou line (right now only XC/Trail) you can even get the tuning kit to further tune the damper.

    As much as I like the Fox Talas I have, it is temperamental, and requires far more maintenance to keep it working well. The new Talas with 160/120 does not work for me with my bike setup. The 160mm travel setting would only get used for steep technical descents, and the 120mm setting is too low for anything but climbing, as even at 130mm tend to have more pedal strikes then I would like. If only the Talas would work as it should.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerider View Post
    Yes, I believe air can escape from one "chamber" within the TALAS cart to another, most likely because one of the little tiny o-rings I previously mentioned needs to be replaced (as I had to do). You can pull it apart to look for a damaged o-ring, and replace as necessary with the TALAS cart rebuild kit. There are instructions on how to do so in the Fox website service section, as well as exploded diagrams of all of the parts. However, word of warning, it's a fairly complex assembly, and is not a simple job to disassemble/reassemble.

    Also, why are you running so much pressure (120 PSI)? That seems really high. I run mine about 60 PSI, and I'm 200 lbs (I'm on a 2009 36 TALAS).
    I will try do it on my self and look how far i will come with that. If I run into problems, then I have this nice forum and in the worst case the service center of fox.

    I'm 220 lbs and I ride previously with 100 psi and get a SAG of 25-30%. But some times I have the feeling, that it is too soft, so I put 20psi extra and then it was nice
    Maybe it is also a question of capacity of air, which can be put to the fork (the 36 should need less pressure then the 32 - like a 2,4 tire need less pressure then a 2,2 - maybe )

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackfreak View Post
    I will try do it on my self and look how far i will come with that. If I run into problems, then I have this nice forum and in the worst case the service center of fox.

    I'm 220 lbs and I ride previously with 100 psi and get a SAG of 25-30%. But some times I have the feeling, that it is too soft, so I put 20psi extra and then it was nice
    Maybe it is also a question of capacity of air, which can be put to the fork (the 36 should need less pressure then the 32 - like a 2,4 tire need less pressure then a 2,2 - maybe )
    Right, I forgot you were on a 32, not a 36. I've never owned a 32, so I'm unsure of the required pressures in the air spring.

  20. #45
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    P.S. I can't post links, because I don't have enough posts in this forum (must have at least 10), so my explantations are not graphically

    Please search at google for
    Code:
    "TALAS 140 Topcap Assembly Diagram: 820-05-089-KIT (1)"
    Now I have disassembled a part of the Talas system. I followed step by step the manual of fox and get:

    1) The part which is called "See sheet 4" and the part called "See sheet 3" are not together, as it should be (if I understand the service manual of fox correct and how it looks like on the first image in this post).

    2) "See sheet 3" for sticked a little in the "TALAS III Lower Air Shaft", but it could be unlink with out problems.

    3) In the "See sheet 3" i can see the correct colors (red, brass, blue)

    Now I hope that it would be enough when I put the "See sheet 3" and "See sheet 4" together as it should be. (I just need to find the 16mm open-end wrench )

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerider View Post
    Yes, the TALAS cart does seem to cause alot of people problems, including myself. As a result, I'm also thinking about going FLOAT on my next fork (I actually don't use the travel adjust much anymore anyways).
    You can convert your Talas to a Float for about $80 in parts.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    You can convert your Talas to a Float for about $80 in parts.
    Yes, I know it can be done, but probably a little more than $80 up here in Canada. I'm however looking into getting a new fork anyways, and am considering the Float instead of Talas.

  23. #48
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    Oooooh, yeah, Canada. That always screws things up.

  24. #49
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    As far as Fox pricing goes, yeah, for sure.

  25. #50
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    Now I assembled the "See sheet 3" with "See sheet 4", but now I can not see the "brass color" trough the middle set of for colors. I can just see completely trough the holes the rest of my living room. But I can see the red and the blue.
    Is this Ok or do I have to turn around with "234-04-084 Inner Tube valve Nut"?

    Since you, Freerider, have already disassembled the "TALAS 140 Topcap Assembly Diagram: 820-05-089-KIT (3)":
    What parts of this diagram make the colors? The o-rings?

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