• 09-29-2012
    fellsbiker
    2008 Manitou Nixon TCP Elite Rebuild
    I've got a 130-160mm 2008 Nixon Elite that I'm trying to rebuild. I ended up needing to buy a 28mm socket and grind it down to a thinwall so it would fit. So this rebuild has been taking months with slowdowns like that (oh and it took Manipoo 3 months to send me the new spring and new seals.

    So I took out the old spring and I'm comparing it to the new spring. The old spring has a smaller spring inside of it. Am I supposed to put that inside of the new spring too? Or is the new spring supposed to run by itself? The fork has a stock spring, and the new spring is a "stiff" spring.

    Heres a pic of both side by side:

    http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5417/springsc.jpg
  • 09-29-2012
    Vespasianus
    Do you have the manual? It should have directions. I assume this is a rapid wind down fork?
  • 09-29-2012
    Aresab
    The internal spring is optional and for tuning. If you like it a bit stiffer, wind it into the new one. It may not be too much different without it compared to the old setup.
  • 09-29-2012
    derby
    I had that model fork. The inner coil is optional. Try the firmer coil first, it should be firmer than the standard coil with inner coil. If still too soft for your uses, then add the inner coil.
  • 10-01-2012
    fellsbiker
    Ok so now to the real guts of this rebuild. What kind, and how much lubrication?

    The spring site didn't seem to have any oil just grease. And tips/suggestions for how much and what kind?

    The dampener was filled with oil. Now it needs to be re filled. Again, how much and what kind of oil?

    And lastly, the oil bath. How much on each leg. I think last time I changed the oil on this fork way back when, I used mobile one as suggested by someone on the internet. It seemed to work fine so I"ll probably use it again.

    Also is bath oil pretty much the same across forks? I have a rock shox lyric that I think needs an oil change and seal cleaning. Can I put the same bath oil in both forks?
  • 10-01-2012
    derby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Ok so now to the real guts of this rebuild. What kind, and how much lubrication?

    The spring site didn't seem to have any oil just grease. And tips/suggestions for how much and what kind?

    The dampener was filled with oil. Now it needs to be re filled. Again, how much and what kind of oil?

    And lastly, the oil bath. How much on each leg. I think last time I changed the oil on this fork way back when, I used mobile one as suggested by someone on the internet. It seemed to work fine so I"ll probably use it again.

    Also is bath oil pretty much the same across forks? I have a rock shox lyric that I think needs an oil change and seal cleaning. Can I put the same bath oil in both forks?

    If I recall, it's been a few years, the damper oil level is 4 inches from the top of the cartridge, top cap and compression assembly removed, with fork compressed completely to bottom travel. (Try measuring what is there first before pouring it out, that should be close, unless seals are blown.)

    Splash bath, I don't remember. Seems like all the splash oil forks I've had used about 15 to 16 ml (or cc) oil. 10-40 motor oil is usually recommended for long term use for splash oil, synthetic won't sludge up and get sticky as quickly as non-synthetic. Splash oil is needed in both sides.
  • 10-09-2012
    fellsbiker
    What kind of oil should I put in the dampener? Also anyone know how many CCs it is? I drained it months ago so I can't keep track of it that way.
  • 10-09-2012
    Vespasianus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    What kind of oil should I put in the dampener? Also anyone know how many CCs it is? I drained it months ago so I can't keep track of it that way.

    Download the service guide:

    Manitou Suspension Forks & Bicycle Components for Mountain Bikes

    It has all the information you need.
  • 10-10-2012
    fellsbiker
    I've had the service manuals for years. They are absolutely terrible manuals. Clearly thrown together by the company in ms word at the last minute. They are not clear at all, lack even simple photos of what *MY* fork's innards are supposed to look like. I could go on and on about how terrible their manuals are. But I'll just say that no, they don't have all the information I need. Not by a long shot.
  • 10-10-2012
    Aresab
    Fellsbiker,
    After our exchange last month, I think your fork is a 2007. The 2008 did not have RTWD according to the catalog I have, it had only MARS air and no other models are listed in the service guide. Of course it could be an OEM but I would follow the 2007, it looks close.
    With that said, the 2007 RTWD 160mm Elite is :
    - 3.9 inches/100mm minimum from the top
    - 4.1 inches/105mm maximum from the top
    - 16cc semi bath in each of the low legs (I use 10W40 SYNTHETIC motor oil)
    Default fork oil is 5W however some use 2.5 and some 7.5. I use Motorex brand in my Super Intrinsic.
  • 10-10-2012
    fellsbiker
    What is the benefit of going with lighter oil in the dampener?
    The rod in the dampener, do I put it all the way IN or all the way EXTENDED when filling?


    Also off topic, is bath oil all the same? I need to change my bath oil in my rock shox lyric and it would be nice to buy a single quart of something and use it as the bath in both.

    Also back on topic. Putting the new spring in. Do I literally just get a handful of grease and smear it all over? No oil goes in the spring cartridge?
  • 10-10-2012
    fellsbiker
    And I still don't get how i'm supposed to measure the oil inside the dampener to +/-0.1" accuracy, without putting an exact amount of CCs in there? Everyone says just measure what comes out but I drained it months ago so that plan won't work.
  • 10-10-2012
    Aresab
    I bought a tool a few years ago, it is basically a syringe with a hose that attaches to a metal ruler rod piece. So , I just dial in 100mm, fill up the damper to where I think it needs to be, then suck out any excess. I would guess you could measure/mark with perm marker a tube from a bleed kit and use the syringe the same way with a helper holding the cartridge. I find that method more accurate than RockShox total volume since you never know if you got it all out before refilling. Always measure the oil with the damper completely extended.
    On the batch oil, they are different. Fork oild for the damper, motor oil for lubing the stanchions via bath oil.
  • 10-11-2012
    fellsbiker
    Finally made some progress last night. I greased up the spring as best I could, and installed it. I did just the bare stiff spring. I was going to put the smaller spring inside of it, but I could not get it out of the old spring, not without destroying the old spring.
    I also got the dampener filled (minutes 4") with 5w oil. I made a bunch of 4" long paper strips, and just did a whole lot of trial and error until it was just right. Pain in the ass but that's all together now too. The lowers aren't on yet, but that's the relatively easy part.

    One thing I'm wondering is, is the spring compartment sealed, or does the bath oil get up into the spring compartment. I ask because after installing the spring, compressing the rod did not have a smooth feel to it. It felt and kind of sounded like metal on metal. I'm hoping this is normal considering the fork is apart, and once I reassemble and add the bath oil, it will feel and sound normal again?

    Also earlier, I wasn't asking if I can use the same oil in lower and in the dampener. I was asking if I can use the same oil in the lowers of the nixon, and the lowers of my Lyrik Air. But having googled around for a while, the general consensus seems to be a 'yes', 10w40 mobile 1 should work quite nice.

    I hope to get to the lowers soon and be DONE with this fork rebuild project.
  • 10-11-2012
    Aresab
    Yes, you're right. I use the synthetic in all of my forks,RS included.

    The bath oil will splash around and unfortunatly will mix with the grease. It is normal for the metal on metal sound, the grease helps though. Some have used heatshrink on the springs at a few places to aid in sliding. All of my Nixon forks are just using grease, but I am planning to try the heatshring at the next service. I say assemble and go! I use a syring to fill the lowers, put them on then pull them up so there is a gap between the rods inside, then put the "splash oil in", push the lowers the last inch and bolt up.
  • 11-11-2012
    fellsbiker
    I went bouncing around for a while today. Not a real ride but I did ride on a variety of surfaces, including bouncing up and down some decently high walls. What a huge difference a good fork makes! Rebuilding this fork took months but in the end, I think it will have been worth it. The final decision will come after a Rye session.
  • 02-15-2013
    fellsbiker
    So here I am, months later. I've been riding this bike in the park and the fork feels just as soft now as it did before. It's relatively easy to bottom out. So I wanted to insert the inner spring inside the new stiffer spring. But I can't figure out how to get the inner spring out of the old big spring! Or for that matter, how I would get it inside of the new spring. All springs have the end bent flat so nothing can get in or out. Is there a trick to it?
  • 02-15-2013
    fellsbiker
  • 02-15-2013
    Vespasianus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    So here I am, months later. I've been riding this bike in the park and the fork feels just as soft now as it did before. It's relatively easy to bottom out. So I wanted to insert the inner spring inside the new stiffer spring. But I can't figure out how to get the inner spring out of the old big spring! Or for that matter, how I would get it inside of the new spring. All springs have the end bent flat so nothing can get in or out. Is there a trick to it?

    From the manual, it says ""To remove the booster spring from the main spring; grasp the flat end of the booster spring with a pair of needle nose pliers and twist it in a clockwise direction to unscrew it from the main spring."

    To install "To install a booster spring into a main spring catch the flat end of the booster spring under the flat end of the main spring and twist it counterclockwise into the main spring. Make sure that the booster spring is threaded all of the way down into and contained by the main spring. Before inserting it back into the inner leg."

    Hate to sound like a prick, but you have not shown much ability to either work with the fork or read the directions so it might be a better idea to send the fork to someone who knows how to work on it.
  • 02-15-2013
    fellsbiker
    Like all directions from Manitiou, those directions are shitty and don't help you with all. I did manage to get the spring uninstalled and then reinstalled. It took three hours of prying. I should've Thrown this piece of **** fork in the trash six months ago and saved myself so much ****ing hassle. For what it's worth, grabbing the innerspring with a pair of needle nose pliers and twisting does not work. Both the inner and outer springs are bent into round washer type shapes at the ends which make it almost impossible to thread one through another. I ****ing hate this company in their worthless **** products. This thread can be locked now because I am done with this fork, if it ever needs anything else it's just going into the trash.
  • 02-15-2013
    mullen119
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Like all directions from Manitiou, those directions are shitty and don't help you with all. I did manage to get the spring uninstalled and then reinstalled. It took three hours of prying. I should've Thrown this piece of **** fork in the trash six months ago and saved myself so much ****ing hassle. For what it's worth, grabbing the innerspring with a pair of needle nose pliers and twisting does not work. Both the inner and outer springs are bent into round washer type shapes at the ends which make it almost impossible to thread one through another. I ****ing hate this company in their worthless **** products. This thread can be locked now because I am done with this fork, if it ever needs anything else it's just going into the trash.

    What damper does this fork have? And what axle? I would consider buying it or a possible trade for a lyrik if you were willing to chip in some cash. PM me if your interested.
  • 02-15-2013
    fellsbiker
    Why would you trade a lyric for this pos? I have a lyric air on my main bike And it is so much better than this fork. But if I have my more issues with it, maybe we can work something out.
  • 02-16-2013
    mullen119
    I will just buy it then. I have wanted a 160mm Nixon with tpc plus for years, but no one wants to sell. If you hate it, I will gladly take it off your hands for the right price.
  • 02-16-2013
    Vespasianus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I will just buy it then. I have wanted a 160mm Nixon with tpc plus for years, but no one wants to sell. If you hate it, I will gladly take it off your hands for the right price.

    Yup, they are hard to come by. I actually have a 160 Nixon IT TPC+ with a 20mm axle that is just hanging on my wall. The main reason is that I moved to a 145 Nixon TPC+ last year and I find that for my trails, it works better. But I can't seem to part with the 160mm fork. Honestly, after trying Fox and Rock shox forks, I have not found anything better than the Manitou.
  • 02-16-2013
    One Pivot
    holy crap! Ill buy that fork off you right now!! Very very interested!