Zee-licious

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  • 07-03-2012
    myitch
    Zee-licious
    Universal Cycles now has in stock the Zee rear der that I've been eyeing for awhile. I'm looking forward to crisper shifting with that short short cage. Yippee Zee
  • 07-03-2012
    eurospek
    Yeah, I've been debating whether to go ZEE 1x10 - 32T and 11-36 (new der, shifter, cassette, chain) or get something like the XTR M972 9-spd derailleur and simply add a Saint short cage to it (to a relatively new drivetrain, less than 15 hrs on it this season). The difference in price between the two setups would be roughly $70 or so. I can get the XTR plus Saint cage bits for $160 and the ZEE 1x10 setup for about $230.
  • 07-03-2012
    myitch
    It says 1x10 but I plan on using it for 2x10. I dont see why it can't be used for 2 rings up front.

    I haven't seen the new Saint's pricing yet. Where'd you see that?
  • 07-03-2012
    Jon Richard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    It says 1x10 but I plan on using it for 2x10. I dont see why it can't be used for 2 rings up front.

    The short cage won't have enough throw to take up all the chain necessary to accommodate two chain rings and 10 cogs, sorry.

    If you aim to run 2x10 your best bet is a medium length cage.
  • 07-03-2012
    myitch
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    The short cage won't have enough throw to take up all the chain necessary to accommodate two chain rings and 10 cogs, sorry.

    If you aim to run 2x10 your best bet is a medium length cage.

    The specs say up to 36T cassette but doesn't specify what size chainring. Many 1x10 can be 36T ring up front. But yes, I'm assuming here about it fitting. Hmm, now I'm wondering about this. The med cage would be safer but I really want that short cage. I guess I'll have to research more and hold my order
  • 07-04-2012
    Jon Richard
    The size of the large cog and large chain ring dictates the length of chain required, the spread in gear ratios of the drive train determines the minimum amount of take up needed.

    I run 2x6 with a front derailleur and a short Saint cage, but I only have 6 cogs out back. My total spread in gears range from 23.2 gear inches to 70.4 gear inches. My rear derailleur is maxed out with 25t/ 38t front- 14-28 rear.

    Thats a difference of 47.2 gear inches, where a 12-36 run 1x9 with a 36t ring has a spread of 51.9 gear inches.

    Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator

    I hope that helps. Tell us what you find.
  • 07-04-2012
    myitch
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    The size of the large cog and large chain ring dictates the length of chain required, the spread in gear ratios of the drive train determines the minimum amount of take up needed.

    I run 2x6 with a front derailleur and a short Saint cage, but I only have 6 cogs out back. My total spread in gears range from 23.2 gear inches to 70.4 gear inches. My rear derailleur is maxed out with 25t/ 38t front- 14-28 rear.

    Thats a difference of 47.2 gear inches, where a 12-36 run 1x9 with a 36t ring has a spread of 51.9 gear inches.

    Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator

    I hope that helps. Tell us what you find.

    If you're maxed out with 25T rear and 38T front, then my 36T-36T wouldn't work with a short cage, assuming the Saint short cage is the same length as the short cage Zee. Shimano should specify somewhere what size front ring is max. to make this easier.

    UPdate: I spoke with a Shimano rep. He said the Zee will work fine with a 2x10 and 36T up front. Coolness
  • 07-06-2012
    eurospek
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    It says 1x10 but I plan on using it for 2x10. I dont see why it can't be used for 2 rings up front.

    I haven't seen the new Saint's pricing yet. Where'd you see that?

    I was referring to getting a new XTR 972 9spd derailleur, but like I said, it would be about $160 for just the derailleur and Saint short cage mod. Quite spendy to replace if need be.

    For this season, Jon Richard offered to help out and ship me his old XTR cage to see if I can attempt the Saint short cage mod on my current SLX derailleurs. If so, I would only spend $30 on it and leave as be. I really want a short cage Shimano 9 spd derailleur most importantly, the 1x10 I couldn't really care less about since I wouldn't be gaining much anyway, already running a 12-36 cassette.

    If the Saint cage mod won't work, I'll probably get the Zee 1x10 stuff for next season, especially after hearing people's review on them.
  • 07-12-2012
    myitch
    Maiden ride with the new Zee rear clutch mech. NICE !!!

    It was super quiet. Only a bit of rattle on high speed rocky stuff, otherwise crisp shifting, silent, smooth. And it works fine with my 2x10 36-36T combo. It's a bit more cross-chaining as it was compared with my XT Shadow, but the 36T rear is really a climbing gear only so that's when I drop to the granny.

    Doing the drop test, pick up the bike's rear end and drop it, the chain does not make a sound at all. Love it.

    Zee-licious !!!
  • 07-17-2012
    mikkosan
    Can you post a pic of your setup? Been looking at getting the Zee with the clutch instead of the SLX. I'm currently running a 1x9 using an X9 short cage that's why I'm looking at the Zee.
  • 07-17-2012
    Calhoun
    Glad to hear you like it myitch. I have the Zee sitting on the shelf waiting for a frame to put it on. I really wanted to get the Saint, but prices and availability helped me get the Zee.
  • 07-22-2012
    myitch
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mikkosan View Post
    Can you post a pic of your setup? Been looking at getting the Zee with the clutch instead of the SLX. I'm currently running a 1x9 using an X9 short cage that's why I'm looking at the Zee.

    Not much to see with a picture.

    But if you're running a SRAM rear mech, you're going to have to change your shifters to run Shimano rear mech. The leverage ratios are not the same for the shifters and rear mechs.

    Also if it's the clutch device for chain control you're after, SRAM is making their own new rear mech with chain tension. I think it's called Type 2 or something like that.
  • 08-05-2012
    Hikers Only
    My ZEE will be here on Monday:) Decided to go for this after the XTR Shadow broke!
  • 08-05-2012
    eurospek
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rednova75 View Post
    My ZEE will be here on Monday:) Decided to go for this after the XTR Shadow broke!

    What broke on it? The actual clutch mechanism?
  • 08-05-2012
    Hikers Only
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    What broke on it? The actual clutch mechanism?

    No, I barely clipped a rock on the clutch switch and it caused one of the lower links of the der. To break in half! I understand rockstrikes are just part of the sport, but I'm kind of annoyed that it broke on such a soft hit! Hence the purchase of the burley looking and cheaper ZEE
  • 08-05-2012
    myitch
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rednova75 View Post
    No, I barely clipped a rock on the clutch switch and it caused one of the lower links of the der. To break in half! I understand rockstrikes are just part of the sport, but I'm kind of annoyed that it broke on such a soft hit! Hence the purchase of the burley looking and cheaper ZEE

    Lower links? Do you mean the cage, the two plates holding the pulleys? So both the aluminum and carbon plates broke?

    Try calling Shimano. They might warranty it for you. I've been reading also that some of these XTRs have problems with the clutch not holding in place and allowing freeplay and chain slap.
  • 08-06-2012
    eurospek
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Lower links? Do you mean the cage, the two plates holding the pulleys? So both the aluminum and carbon plates broke?

    Try calling Shimano. They might warranty it for you. I've been reading also that some of these XTRs have problems with the clutch not holding in place and allowing freeplay and chain slap.

    This is one the main reasons why I ultimately decided to stay 1x9 for now and just get a new Shimano Saint M810 SS derailleur. Much better than my previous SLX GS. And my chain is definitely tighter now too with the short case. Investing in a full Zee 1x10 would have been $150 or so more than I was looking to spend and if XTR Shadow Plus was having problems, I didn't want to be a beta tester for the Zee. :D

    And the Saint derailleur is so stout and robust. :eekster:
  • 08-06-2012
    Hikers Only
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Lower links? Do you mean the cage, the two plates holding the pulleys? So both the aluminum and carbon plates broke?

    Try calling Shimano. They might warranty it for you. I've been reading also that some of these XTRs have problems with the clutch not holding in place and allowing freeplay and chain slap.

    No not the cage plates. Ill post a pic tomorrow.

    Got a short ride on the ZEE today and I can say from the short time on it I am very impressed! The chain was kept nice and taught and the shifting was super crisp. Will be interested to see how it lasts long term, but for now it seems like it will be a great purchase:)
  • 09-16-2012
    svalgis
    Sorry for necroposting, but I found this thread when I was looking up the possibility of running the Zee rear derailleur with a 2x10 setup and am intrigued to find that it seems to work. Anyone care to comment now, a few months later? Still working fine?
  • 09-19-2012
    Heretic Skeptic
    I'm also interested in how the Zee is working for 2x10 systems.

    I'm running a 24/32 crankset, so the 25t capacity of the Zee intrigues me, as I would never use the smaller cassette rings (11, 13, 15, 17, etc) when in 24 granny up front. Would folks advise me to still just stick with the medium cage Shadow Plus Rear Derailleurs, or possibly consider the Zee/Saint Shadow Plus? Cranks will be 24/32, and Cassette will be 11-32.
  • 09-22-2012
    piccirilli
    As most of you know, Shimano is claiming all the shadow + derailleurs are strictly 10 speed. I am one of those who refuse to 'downgrade' to a 10 speed just to take advantage of the improved rear derailluers. Sorry but I'd would rather spend the couple hundred $ on something more practical over replacing a perfectly good drivetrain. Besides I discovered it's possible to create a 2X9 9 speed drive train with a greater gear ratio compared to 10 speed. 22/36 up front, 11-34 in back. But that's for another discussion..
    Somewhere on MTB, someone posted a 'hack' to make it work with 9 speed, In short the hack consists of a 1/4" spacer where the shifter cable is bolted to the derailleur. Spacing the cable out changes the pull rate so it approximates a 9 speed version. Most importantly however the shifter must be a SRAM coupled with the the Shimano shadow + Again, this effects the pull rate.
    I recently installed a Zee short cage expecting to do the above hack, but found out it wasn't necessary. Coupled with a Sram shifter, the Zee shifting works fine without mods. So good news to those running a 9 speed drive train, single up front and want to eliminate chain slap. BTW, I already had a chain retention device, but the Zee is far more effective. No more chain slap into spokes. Yay.
  • 09-22-2012
    mikkosan
    So I'm on a 9spd SRAM X9 setup now. Is it just as simple as taking my X9 RD off then slap on a Zee shadow + an that's it?
  • 09-22-2012
    piccirilli
    Providing you are running a 1X9, the Zee should work. I did nothing special on mine. Took it out for a couple of rides and so far it's shifting fine. Worst possible scenerio is having to add a 1/4" spacer behind the shifter cable where it clamps to derailleur. Perhaps a 1X9 setup is not as critical as a 2X9 or 3X9 setup, where the spacer comes into play. Be sure to order the FR version of the Zee. The DH version is for a smaller cassette.
  • 09-23-2012
    mikkosan
    Yup, I'm running 1x9 now with 30 in front and 11-34 in the rear. This sounds interesting as I want to get into the shadow +. I might pull the trigger on a Zee FR RD. Thanks! :thumbsup:
  • 10-16-2012
    DBAD
    I hope this works cause I just bought a Zee for this reason.
  • 10-17-2012
    piccirilli
    As I mentioned earlier, if you are planning on installing on a 1X9 drivetrain, you must use a SRAM shifter.
  • 10-21-2012
    mikkosan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DBAD View Post
    I hope this works cause I just bought a Zee for this reason.



    Any updates? How did it work out for you?
  • 10-22-2012
    Darkstar187
    I am running a Zee rear derailleur with a I-spec saint shifter and 11-36 cassette. Let me say i cannot tell you guys how well this derailleur performs! it is pretty much silent, super crisp shifting it has the feel of my old x9 9spd. I tired out of the the SRAM type 2 derailleur it wasn't there yet i had all sort of problems with it. So if you are thinking about getting this derailleur stop, just get it and enjoy!


  • 10-26-2012
    marti163
    I'm using a zee rd with my 9 speed X-0 shifter. Perfect shifting...no spacer required. Just installed today so I guess we'll see how it works long term.
  • 11-03-2012
    svalgis
    Still looking for comments from anyone using the Zee for 2x10.
  • 11-03-2012
    piccirilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by svalgis View Post
    Still looking for comments from anyone using the Zee for 2x10.

    If I'm not mistaken, the Zee only comes with a short cage, good for 1X9 or 1X10 setups. It won't have the reach for 2X10. You'll need a medium or long cage for this.
  • 11-03-2012
    svalgis
    From page 1.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    If you're maxed out with 25T rear and 38T front, then my 36T-36T wouldn't work with a short cage, assuming the Saint short cage is the same length as the short cage Zee. Shimano should specify somewhere what size front ring is max. to make this easier.

    UPdate: I spoke with a Shimano rep. He said the Zee will work fine with a 2x10 and 36T up front. Coolness

  • 11-15-2012
    DexTan
    My zee as DH engraved on the link where you bolt it to the hanger, can i use this with a 11-36t cog, plan to put it on my project enduro build. My lbs has no idea.
  • 11-15-2012
    marti163
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DexTan View Post
    My zee as DH engraved on the link where you bolt it to the hanger, can i use this with a 11-36t cog, plan to put it on my project enduro build. My lbs has no idea.

    Nope...dh = close ratio cassette. You need a FR version.
  • 11-16-2012
    DexTan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marti163 View Post
    Nope...dh = close ratio cassette. You need a FR version.

    Got it! And with a little bit of research, i found out i have a M640SSC and i need the M640SSW to run 11-36t.
  • 11-17-2012
    myitch
    For those wanting to know about 2x10 and 36 front, 36 rear. Better to go with a med or long cage. It might work if you're running 34t big cog cassette, IDK

    My setup:
    2x10, 22-36 front, 11-36 rear

    On both my DW Link Mojo HD and VPP SC TRc, with the chain growth there's just too much pull. By the time I set up the chain just short enough to have decent tension in the 36 front-11 rear combo it was too short for those "opps" times when you cross shift and go big-big (36-36) under full suspension compression. I like to set up my bikes with that "opps" in mind to prevent trouble. I'd hate to snap a chain or something.

    Dang, and the Shimano tech said it should work! He should refund my money since he obviously didn't know his own product. Now I'm stuck with a rear der I cant use and have to buy a new one.
  • 11-17-2012
    svalgis
    Gee, that sucks, sorry man.
    Do you reckon it would work on a HT though?
  • 11-17-2012
    myitch
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by svalgis View Post
    Gee, that sucks, sorry man.
    Do you reckon it would work on a HT though?

    On an HT yes. There won't be much tension when it's in the 36t front and 11t rear and the 36-36 will be at its limit so there'll be more chain slap but it will shift and you won't snap the chain. But with little tension on the derailleur in the 11-36 combo it kinda defeats the purpose of having the clutch.

    I have it set up on my FS bike but I'm going to replace it with a med cage Plus soon before I break something
  • 11-17-2012
    svalgis
    Alright, might as well go for a medium caged RD then by the sound of it. I recently got rid of my Zee together with my bike and was pondering whether to get a new one or not for my new 2x10 build. Thanks.
  • 11-23-2012
    mikkosan
    I just purchased a zee rd to mate with my 9spd X9 shifter. I seem to be having problems running it smoothly on my 5 spot. On the first 5 small cogs it's ok but starts to get funky as you get to the bigger cogs.

    Did any of you guys have any tuning gremlins on yours?



    EDIT:

    Finally figured it out! Forgot to adjust the B screw. doh! Finally shifting well now. Will have a go on it tomorrow. Hopefully there won't be any problems.
  • 11-25-2012
    Mishtar
    I am not sure on how gear ratio's work. But from what I am reading here would I be right in assuming a 2x10 with a 24/32 front would work with a 11-34 rear?
  • 12-10-2012
    zarr
    tagged for future ref.
  • 12-12-2012
    Kanik
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    For those wanting to know about 2x10 and 36 front, 36 rear. Better to go with a med or long cage. It might work if you're running 34t big cog cassette, IDK

    My setup:
    2x10, 22-36 front, 11-36 rear

    On both my DW Link Mojo HD and VPP SC TRc, with the chain growth there's just too much pull. By the time I set up the chain just short enough to have decent tension in the 36 front-11 rear combo it was too short for those "opps" times when you cross shift and go big-big (36-36) under full suspension compression. I like to set up my bikes with that "opps" in mind to prevent trouble. I'd hate to snap a chain or something.

    Dang, and the Shimano tech said it should work! He should refund my money since he obviously didn't know his own product. Now I'm stuck with a rear der I cant use and have to buy a new one.

    You said you spoke to a rep. Reps are usually not techs, or mechanics, or engineers.

    Now, I think you might not have asked the correct question. Did you specify that you wanted to run 2x10 with an 11-36 and 22-36?
    Running 2x10 with "a 36 tooth ring" and a short cage is actually possible. This is what road bikes do. But road cassettes aren't bigger that 28T, and there is less difference in most road cranksets between the small and big rings. The absolute size of the ring does not matter to the derailleur, as sizing the chain compensates for this. What matter to the RD is the range of teeth that it has to take up chain slack for, and the size of biggest cog on the cassette, so the upper pulley can clear the cog and not crash into it.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mishtar View Post
    I am not sure on how gear ratio's work. But from what I am reading here would I be right in assuming a 2x10 with a 24/32 front would work with a 11-34 rear?

    No. Use a med cage.
  • 03-04-2013
    mmanuel09
    I just ordered a zee shifter and rd (fr version 36t). I'd like to run a 2x10 set up with 24/36 or 24/38 up front. Will this combo/set up work. Anyone running it? Any problems?
  • 03-04-2013
    ATBScott
    The front chainring size in a 1x9 or 10 (or 11 or...) set-up won't affect the rear derailleur's shifting or being able to wrap the chain. The Rear mech has a maximum number of teeth it can reach up to on the rear casette, and the maximum amount (in teeth) of chain it can allow to spread and still maintain tension and clearance (wrap)... If there are two or more rings in the front, then the difference of the sizes in the rings counts towards that wrap capacity. If there is only one ring it won't add to that total, whether it's 24t or 54t. It's difference towards the wrap always remains zero... Zee has a Freeride version and a DH version - both wrap 25t, but the DH model maxes out at a 28t on the largest rear cog. The FR model handles up to a 36t cassette at max wrap (36t - 11t = 25t)

    Theoretically, you could run a 32tx24t front crankset (8t difference) and run the 11-28 cassette (17t diff) and be at the wrap maximums. Low gear would work out to just over 22 gear inches for a 26" tire. Just about 1 gear inch lower than the 32t front with a 36t rear. But a lot more complexity and extra weight for one gear inch... I'd go the FR Zee M-640 RD and the 11-36 [Edit: with a single ring!] if you are not strictly competing in DH... Nice looking, inexpensive equipment.
  • 03-05-2013
    mmanuel09
    ATBscott. Thanks for the reply. I'm not a downhiller rider and more of a trails rider who likes to ride aggressively going down the mountain. I do however have to climb a lot. I've got more of an xc background so I need a small ring up front to help me up the long climbs we have here in my area. So the 36t up front and 36t back is the max it will go? I'll just have to remember to not get in that gear so much. I'm pretty good with avoiding cross lining my gears. Do you think an 11-34 cassette will work out better?
  • 03-06-2013
    blaklabl
    Will this or will this not work with a 10-speed 11-36 cassette, and a 32/22 front chainring setup, with a ZEE FR rear der (larger capacity)?

    If not, I don't understand why not? I am currently running a 32 chainring with an 11-36 cassette, I know that adding the little ring will probably negate the use of the 3 small cogs in the back with the granny up front, but I don't use that anyways. I have a Ventana El Terremoto and chain growth through the suspension action is nil at best, so will it work?
  • 03-06-2013
    Aresab
    The Zee FR can work with 36T, but a short cage most likely will not work with a dual front ring as it cannot take up the slack in the chain when in the smallest gears and still have enough slack when in the largest. The SLX M665 mid-cage should work and is very similar to the Zee. A mid cage can handle a 37t difference, the formula for determining is:
    - Front large-small 32-22 = 10
    - Rear large-small 36-11 = 25
    - Total capacity 35.
    Shimano says 23T for short cage although I've read more like 25T, Mid cage to 37T, long cage for everything else.
  • 03-06-2013
    mmanuel09
    That's what I needed to hear. Big Thanks.

    But... Say you set up big big. Theoretically, all you lose is the small small gears - right? Actually, I'm fine with that cause the small ring would be my bail out ring for the long steep climbs that we have.
  • 03-06-2013
    blaklabl
    Still confused.
    But the ZEE FR version is rated to 36T, correct? So with that, and with the calculation above, it would work with a 32 front chainring - again, I am running a 32 chainring, not any larger or smaller. I have NO PROBLEM with 32 front / 36 rear now, still don't grasp why adding a smaller front chainring would present a stretch problem?