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  1. #1
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    XTR Di2 - Is this for real?

    Please discuss as the they look legit .

    XTR Di2 - Is this for real?-vf9pxx.jpgXTR Di2 - Is this for real?-6zn81j.jpgXTR Di2 - Is this for real?-2vvj7kl.jpgName:  2bwrcg.jpg
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  2. #2
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    That is real. And going to be real awesome and expensive. I hope every part on that rear mech is replaceable.

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  3. #3
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    it's real but it is dumb. ther is no reason to go 11spd other than range. since 11-40 is not enough, that means the only other reason to go 11spd is to force a new rear hub standard. fail.

  4. #4
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    The new hubs are already 11spd. It is just the cassette body, not the hub. My Reynolds wheels are already there. 11/40 would be enough for me. I am not looking to go there any time soon but would love to jump when XT goes 11. 34t 11/40 would be ideal for me.

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  5. #5
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    I'm sure it will be plenty of range for majority of the people who use it for what it was intended..Racing. If it's not enough range you have the option of a double or triple.
    It's not exactly a new standard, the cassette is a 9000 series component, which seems to imply it will use the same freehub dimensions as the new road free hubs. Shouldn't be hard at all for companies to adapt their road freehubs for their mountain bike hubs, some might not even need any adapting. DT Swiss should work fine as is.

  6. #6
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    for example novatec hubs cannot be converted from 10 to 11 spd just by changing the freehub body. it's a matter of flange spacing. if you've got a poor drive side flange design like DT Swiss does, the conversion might be easier.

  7. #7
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    Dt Swiss has poor drive side flange design?

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    it's real but it is dumb. ther is no reason to go 11spd other than range. since 11-40 is not enough, that means the only other reason to go 11spd is to force a new rear hub standard. fail.
    The most important item is Di2: it will be expensive at first, but electronic shifting is the future. But what do you mean "it is not enough"? A Dual with a 1140 cassette will have a huge range. If you are referring to single chainring the difference between a 1140 cassette and a 1042 is less than 3/4 of a gear, and neither is "enough" if you want to have both low end and good overdrive.

    Compare the gear ratios

    1140 x 26 + 40 => 3.63 to 0.65 (Dual Shimano 2015)

    1140 x 30 => 2.73 to .75 (Single XTR 2015?)
    1142 x 30 => 2.73 to .71 (Single aftermarket)
    1042 x 28 => 2.80 to .67 (Single SRAM)

    942 x 30 => 3.3 to .71 (Single Leonardi)

    The only cassette that sort of get close to dual is the Leonardi, otherwise 1042 to 1140 makes very little difference
    Last edited by Davide; 02-17-2014 at 09:22 AM.

  9. #9
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    i am not considering 2x11 at all, there is no advantage compared to 2x10. the only reason to go 1x11 for me is to get rid of front shifts (where di2 matters most, so as a result i don't care about di2). 11-40 is just not enough, even sram's 10-42 falls rather short, and the BCD designed for swapping chainrings easily addresses that.

    when shimano builds an SLX/XT level 10speed 11-40 cassette i'll be the first to buy it. for a 2x10 it would be great. but i will not be suckered into yet another meaningless upgrade. i was happy with my 2x9 5 years ago and there has been virtually no progress from them since.

  10. #10
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    So far, no mention of the cost of the Di2 XTR rear derailleur!

    Look at the cost for the road version with an MSRP of $900. I would expect the XTR to be at least as much as that one. This is a critical component that is very exposed and at least for me, has been hit by something or has hit something on every one of my bikes for the the past 20+ years of riding.

    Even on my "full" XTR builds, I have almost always gone with an XT or lesser rear derailleur for this very reason.

  11. #11
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    The chainrings seem to have a 'normal' tooth profile, too. I wonder if this means you'll still need a chain guide on a 1x setup?

    I'm a bit disappointed. Compared to XX1, it's less range and may require a chain guide. It still forces a different freehub body and a potential redish of the wheel, and if pricing is inline with Shimano road electronic stuff, it's going to make SRAM look like a freaking bargain. I trust shimano engineering more than I do SRAM's - but I was hoping for something more directly competitive.

  12. #12
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    Your forgeting road hubs for the most part are not disc ready

  13. #13
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    If it's the same price as dura ace I think it will fail. Maybe some chance at ultegra di2 pricing.

    Shimano have to be careful here, how much the system integrates from one to the other will effect retail pricing. In order to protect their dominance in the road market ( and their profitability), I suspect you will see retail pricing similar to road and therefore way above xx1. This will give xtr di2 the premium spot in the market - THEN they will oem to match XX1 so the top bike from a manufacturer will have xx1 or xtr for same price, but to you the consumer, there is $1000 better value in the xtr equipped bike.

    Gee, I should work for shimano.....

  14. #14
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    No matter how you slice it... or market it, $900 or even half of that (which it won't be unless it totally flops and can be had on closeout) is way too friggen much to drop on a rear derailleur. When riding gets rough, they get hurt, before any other drivetrain component on the bike.

    And as for costing less than the Dura-Ace rear derailleur... maybe... a little. It is more complex since it has a clutch in the mech as well. The DA RD-9000 has a MSRP of $280 and the XTR RD-M986 has an MSRP of $270. So about 4% less as a model would put the Di2 XTR RD at around $868. I really don't expect them to try and force this on the market by pricing too much more aggressively than that. But if it is 20% less at $720 or 40% less at $540 it is still too much for mass adoption. They are in a serious uphill battle on this one.

    Maybe they will offer 5yrs of no fault crash replacement with the MSRP, that might get them some more holdouts.

  15. #15
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    ^^^ It may take something like that crash replacement deal, or like some carbon wheels companies, where you can buy an add-on insurance in case you biff a wheel...for a small fee, of course. But yes, that might help the early adopters buy-in.

  16. #16
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    $868...I would be so stressed having that on my bike.

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  17. #17
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    i dunno...exciting to see this...it IS expensive but xtr was always supposed to be ne plus ultra...in someways its cool to see a company willing to produce a derailleur that could be priced in that bracket...there *will* be a market...and it *will* trickle down...no, i wouldnt put a $900 mech on my bike, but i guess i would if i could and i probably will use something that is born of this...i think shimano probably need to be lauded for bringing it...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaklandish View Post
    So far, no mention of the cost of the Di2 XTR rear derailleur!

    Look at the cost for the road version with an MSRP of $900. I would expect the XTR to be at least as much as that one. This is a critical component that is very exposed and at least for me, has been hit by something or has hit something on every one of my bikes for the the past 20+ years of riding.

    Even on my "full" XTR builds, I have almost always gone with an XT or lesser rear derailleur for this very reason.

    The easy solutions are to wait for XT level Di2 or to never use it.

    Problem solved!
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  19. #19
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    Are there one or two buttons on those shifters?

    I wonder if it shifts sequentially, even with the 2x?
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    The easy solutions are to wait for XT level Di2 or to never use it.

    Problem solved!
    I completely agree... wait for XT or don't buy it. Great advice and I'm sure many will follow it, resulting in very few sales.

    Shimano really missed the point of why XX1 was selling and spent all their R&D money on this instead. Eventually electronic may take over the mountain bike world (I think not; as 5 years into the road world hasn't gained much traction) but until that day they have left us with a pretty lame revamp of their drivetrain. I hope as more details come out, the real deal will be better than what we are seeing.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaklandish View Post
    I completely agree... wait for XT or don't buy it. Great advice and I'm sure many will follow it, resulting in very few sales.

    Shimano really missed the point of why XX1 was selling and spent all their R&D money on this instead. Eventually electronic may take over the mountain bike world (I think not; as 5 years into the road world hasn't gained much traction) but until that day they have left us with a pretty lame revamp of their drivetrain. I hope as more details come out, the real deal will be better than what we see.
    I'm saving my nickles for an Ultegra Di2 roadie, but a single gear gets me through the mountains well enough, off road.

    I don't think this is a mistake for Shimano, at all. Having spent some time on a Di2 road bike, I can say for certain that the shifting is far better than a cable system could ever provide. Also, the percentage of electronic shifting bikes at my local shops has been steadily increasing over the past couple of seasons, so I don't know about "not gaining any traction".
    www.seanhannity.com <=not what you think it is.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    I'm saving my nickles for an Ultegra Di2 roadie, but a single gear gets me through the mountains well enough, off road.

    I don't think this is a mistake for Shimano, at all. Having spent some time on a Di2 road bike, I can say for certain that the shifting is far better than a cable system could ever provide. Also, the percentage of electronic shifting bikes at my local shops has been steadily increasing over the past couple of seasons, so I don't know about "not gaining any traction".
    I actually said "much traction".

    I think Shimano are out on a limb on this one. Having said that, I would love to try electronic on my road bike, but I personally won't spend any more than mechanical for it. And especially not more for it on a mountain bike.

    I was going to mention your avitar and the irony of your interest in an electronic system for your single speed drivetrain...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaklandish View Post
    Shimano really missed the point of why XX1 was selling and spent all their R&D money on this instead. Eventually electronic may take over the mountain bike world (I think not; as 5 years into the road world hasn't gained much traction) but until that day they have left us with a pretty lame revamp of their drivetrain. I hope as more details come out, the real deal will be better than what we are seeing.
    This has been in the works way longer than XX1 has been on the market.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    This has been in the works way longer than XX1 has been on the market.
    I agree with this as well, but the remainder of the drivetrain changes i.e. cassette sizes and chainring sizes, is a direct result of XX1. The Di2 has been in development for awhile and my guess is that is why the cogset stops at 40t. It's like they already had the Di2 XTR rear der finished and said what the hell SRAM? Now we have to go bigger as well, but our derailleur design wont fit the 42t so lets give them a 40t.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaklandish View Post
    I agree with this as well, but the remainder of the drivetrain changes i.e. cassette sizes and chainring sizes, is a direct result of XX1. The Di2 has been in development for awhile and my guess is that is why the cogset stops at 40t. It's like they already had the Di2 XTR rear der finished and said what the hell SRAM? Now we have to go bigger as well, but our derailleur design wont fit the 42t so lets give them a 40t.
    The "R" in XTR stands for racing. With that in mind the target audience doesn't need a 42. It wouldn't be that hard to reconfigure the cage plates to work with a 42 or larger if they wanted it to. Shimano also makes cassettes in several sizes at their top level, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to see cassettes with low cogs of 34/36/40/42. Current 98X is offered in two sizes and they aren't going to offer any fewer choices than that for the new stuff. Dura Ace 9000 has 5 different cassette options fwiw.

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