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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    Ever see the mega range cassette?

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    I just dont see it for this market.

  2. #102
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    It's more likely this is something that' been cobbled together from aftermarket bits than something official from Shimano. FWIW, there was talk and pics not long ago though about a not-many-speed Shimano DH prototype cassette that had bigger gaps between the gears so it was possible to make a large change in ratio rapidly.

  3. #103
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    That cassette looks like a half-measure and Shimano doesn't do half-measures.

  4. #104
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    That, a simple 11 to max 44 10 speed cassette that works with existing shifter/derailleur and wheel plus allows for customizing the highest gears by switching cogs, would be fantastic.

  5. #105
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    Probably won't be that ^^^. It'll be 11 speed and require new wheels just like the road.

  6. #106
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    ^ Whatever Shimano do, they'll tell us it requires new parts (even if it doesn't), so the only way to figure things out for sure will to be to experiment - as usual. BTW, there's no real reason that 11 speed MTB would need a wider freehub body as the extra (large) cog could just be cantilevered out over the spokes, and use 10 speed spacing; seeing some people are having troubles with some existing freehub bodies with 36T cogs, I'd say a *stronger* freehub body is more likely to be required. Since this would need different construction - as there's no way to make more room for larger, stronger parts without a redesign - Shimano could end up doing just about anything.

    The only way we'll have any idea what Shimano are going to do will be to wait and see, but my guess is that whatever it is won't have a low enough bottom gear, i.e., business as usual. :-(

  7. #107
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    All I want is an 11x40 cassette that works with existing hubs. I will even buy a new 11sp shifter and rd if I have to. But cassettes have to be priced no more then $150 and have to work with the wheels I have.

  8. #108
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    Should be easy to make, but whether they'll do it is another matter...

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser View Post
    All I want is an 11x40 cassette that works with existing hubs. I will even buy a new 11sp shifter and rd if I have to. But cassettes have to be priced no more then $150 and have to work with the wheels I have.
    It can be done, Recon has come up with a 11-40 10 speed. Costly at 250 Euro or so, materials are steel/titanium plus aluminum for the last 3 cogs, 320 grams. Spacing, 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 32, 36, 40 is a bit silly, it looks like the cogs are all individual (no spider), but ... it is an (expensive) option.
    Recon MTB Titan Kassetten/Cassette 10s 11-40 Shimano compatible, 249,

  10. #110
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    ^ It actually says: "The sprockets are all individually. The 3 largest on a Spyder, then the two next largest again on a Spyder. " A bit contradictory, but their English is still better than my German!

    Cog sizes are weird though, so I'd guess it's mostly cobbled together from bits they already made for other cassettes. Even percent steps, or increasing as the gears get lower would make a lot more sense, and 27-32T = WTF. The SRAM/General Lee 11,13,15,17,19,22,25,29,34,40 combo looks much better and is way cheaper too.

  11. #111
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    Here it is-
    Jared graves was using it at whislter.

    Pinkbike had an article on this that lasted 2-3 hours before shimano had it pulled. Behold it while you can-
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11-42cassette.jpg  


  12. #112
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    Re: Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    Yup, that was posted on the prevuous page. Hope we'd hear something about it soon.

  13. #113
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    So nothing at Eurobike? I wonder how long we will have to wonder if its going to go public.

  14. #114
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    Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    Spoke with Shimano rep and its coming. He just wouldn't tell me when but said soon. Real soon and it will be compatible with existing components.

    Erik

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    Spoke with Shimano rep and its coming. He just wouldn't tell me when but said soon. Real soon and it will be compatible with existing components.

    Erik
    I hope your right. My contact told me when pigs fly they are working on something I can't talk about.

  16. #116
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    Xtr is on closeout at the distributors. The cranks are being discontinued, as are the brakes. That is telling.

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  17. #117
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    Can you run a 28 t narrow wide on any of The XTR cranks? Might have to pick some up if so.
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  18. #118
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    Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    If I was a gambling man XTR got moved up in the redesign calendar due to XX1. If you look at Shimano's normal update it happens every 4 years which put you at a release in the summer of 2014.

    I bet Shimano has something up there sleeve and I hope to see it at Interbike. If not we are bound to see something next summer.

    I would like to see a 12 speed that fits in 11 speed hubs with ratios of 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-27-30-34-38-42. Closer gaps and 11 and all major wheel manufactures are making 11 speed hubs.

    Erik

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    Xtr is on closeout at the distributors. The cranks are being discontinued, as are the brakes. That is telling.
    Regarding the brakes, only the BR-M985 race brakes are discontinued and replaced by the XTR BR-M987. The trail version is being continued with updated i-spec type b compatible mounting clamps.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Can you run a 28 t narrow wide on any of The XTR cranks? Might have to pick some up if so.
    I really don't think so. The best you could do is one of the 30T Raceface rings. The racing double uses an 88mm bolt circle which would fit a 28T, but I don't think anybody makes one for that pattern.

  21. #121
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    Re: Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    Regarding the brakes, only the BR-M985 race brakes are discontinued and replaced by the XTR BR-M987. The trail version is being continued with updated i-spec type b compatible mounting clamps.
    Ahh, so the trails are discontinued due to the new mounting. Got it. Cool. Lots of updates.

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  22. #122
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    Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    What is the type B IPSec?

    Erik

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Can you run a 28 t narrow wide on any of The XTR cranks? Might have to pick some up if so.
    You could run it if the XTR BCD matches the chainring, which the RFs are 104BCD. With rings that smaller than 30T, there's interference with the spider arms so the chain won't fit.

    Note: I've not tried this conversion. You'd need to place spacers/washers between the ring and crank to clear the spider arms. 2mm might be enough to clear. You might also need longer chainring bolts depending on how long your existing bolts are. You'd want to be sure you've got plenty of thread holding too with all force on the rings while pedaling.

    The other thing is to make sure the chain clears the spider arms when shifting down the cassette to the smaller cogs. In the smaller cogs, the chain will be now outboard of the spider and may contact the spider arms.

    I'm curious to see if it could work. Please post back if you do this.
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    What is the type B IPSec?

    Erik
    I love Shimano, but it's a cluster F.... they should have left alone. They changed the ISpec mounting, so the original ISpec is called A and the new one is B. They are not completely backwards compatible either. I don't remember which combo works. It was something like B brake lever can work with both A and B shifters, but A lever won't with B shifter. Anyway as I said really stupid on Shimanos part.
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  25. #125
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    Re: Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I love Shimano, but it's a cluster F.... they should have left alone. They changed the ISpec mounting, so the original ISpec is called A and the new one is B. They are not completely backwards compatible either. I don't remember which combo work. It was something like B brake lever can works with both A and B shifters, but A lever won't with B shifter. Anyway as I said really stupid on Shimanos part.
    Ugh

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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    I would like to see a 12 speed that fits in 11 speed hubs with ratios of 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-27-30-34-38-42. Closer gaps and 11 and all major wheel manufactures are making 11 speed hubs.
    My Gods! 10 speed is plenty: 11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-37-42
    11 speed might make sense if the biggest cog goes to 44

  27. #127
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    Re I-speck: According to my official Shimano blurb, the new shifter fits directly to the new brake lever but requires a "special nut" to attach to the old brake lever. The old shifter supposedly won't fit the new brake lever at all. It'd be kinda nice if Shimano would quit with the "one step forward, two steps back" stuff...

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    11 speed might make sense if the biggest cog goes to 44
    No, no no! 11 is better - just ask Nigel Tufnel. And then there's Twelve: http://www.discogs.com/Various-Tripl...elease/1010722

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    ^ According to my Shimano blurb, the new shifter fits directly to the new brake lever but requires a "special nut" to attach to the old brake lever. The old shifter won't officially fit the new brake lever at all. It'd be kinda nice if Shimano would quit with the "one step forward, two steps back" stuff...
    In the box of the new i-spec type B shifters there is an additional nut included to mount to the old brake levers.

    The old i-spec type A shifters only work with the old brake levers.

    I've had the old type A, and currently own two type B setups (2014 XT brakes / shifters, 2014 XTR trail brakes / shifters) : the new type B is a really good design and an improvement over the old type A. Definitely not 'one step forward, two steps back'.

  29. #129
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    Still, making things incompatible doesn't help. Shimano also have a habit of doing things like for instance offering a larger cassette (34 -> 36T) and at the same time making the smallest chainring larger (22 -> 24T). They make some great stuff, but it'd be nice if they only changed things when there was a reason for doing so that didn't include either marketing or planned obsolescence.

    It's an absolute nightmare trying to keep up with what's compatible with what, and things are getting worse, especially since 1) the info is generally not available online from Shimano, and 2) the printed material is becoming ever-scarcer every year. Of course, one can attempt to ask the Shimano reps but I get the impression they have to do a lot of guessing themselves.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    In the box of the new i-spec type B shifters there is an additional nut included to mount to the old brake levers.

    The old i-spec type A shifters only work with the old brake levers.

    I've had the old type A, and currently own two type B setups (2014 XT brakes / shifters, 2014 XTR trail brakes / shifters) : the new type B is a really good design and an improvement over the old type A. Definitely not 'one step forward, two steps back'.
    Based on what I saw, it looks like you still can't adjust the angle between the brake lever and shifters like the matchmakers, so how much better can this mounting be? What problem did it solve, we know it created problems.
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  31. #131
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    No, you can't adjust the angle - but for me it's perfect out of the box.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    No, you can't adjust the angle - but for me it's perfect out of the box.
    Ok so what's the improvement? That's my point, why change it if you've added nothing?

    Well they did add something, incompatibility with the older version.
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  33. #133
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    It's not like you have to get i-spec anyway. If you want it, fine, if not, compatibility is not your worry.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic View Post
    It's not like you have to get i-spec anyway. If you want it, fine, if not, compatibility is not your worry.
    Love that answer, well no biggie as long as you don't want ISpec. If you do,5 well screw you. You know how many lower end build kits spec Shimano shifters but Avid brakes?
    So if you bought one of those recently Shimano just gave you the middle finger if you want to upgrade brakes.
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  35. #135
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    Re: Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Love that answer, well no biggie as long as you don't want ISpec. If you do,5 well screw you. You know how many lower end build kits spec Shimano shifters but Avid brakes?
    So if you bought one of those recently Shimano just gave you the middle finger if you want to upgrade brakes.
    Not really, just get compatible brakes. There plenty out there and will be cheaper to boot. Kinda did you a favor. It is not necessary anyway...so whatever.

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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Love that answer, well no biggie as long as you don't want ISpec. If you do,5 well screw you. You know how many lower end build kits spec Shimano shifters but Avid brakes?
    So if you bought one of those recently Shimano just gave you the middle finger if you want to upgrade brakes.
    I don't understand what you are saying. Shimano makes shiftlevers with and without i-spec. I can't imagine how this is a middle finger. You can also buy the i-spec mounts and convert non-ispec shifters if you want to.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Ok so what's the improvement? That's my point, why change it if you've added nothing?
    1. The interface between brakes and shifters is more solid.
    2. No need to dismount the brake lever clamp in case you wish to mount the shifters to the clamp (although in general you only need to do this once).

    If you look at it in real life, it's a really clever system and makes you wonder nobody else thought about it.

  38. #138
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    Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by madskatingcow View Post
    1. The interface between brakes and shifters is more solid.
    2. No need to dismount the brake lever clamp in case you wish to mount the shifters to the clamp (although in general you only need to do this once).

    If you look at it in real life, it's a really clever system and makes you wonder nobody else thought about it.
    Sounds like you've had a look at both A spec and B spec... Any ideas if pairing B spec shifters with A spec levers result in the more solid interface that you mention with a B spec/B spec setup? Or do you think that the new brake lever design is integral to the sturdier setup?

  39. #139
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    The biggest difference is on the inside of the lever clamp : there is no longer a 'channel' to hold the T-nut for tightening the shifter's mounting bolt.

    Have a look at the tech documents of the shifters to see the difference between the shifter interface (note : you can see the T-nut for mounting the type B shifters to older brakes) :

    i-spec type a

    i-spec type b
    Last edited by madskatingcow; 09-16-2013 at 07:48 AM.

  40. #140
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    Re: Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    Back to main topic...damn inter bike is half over and still no dedicated 1x group/setup from shimano... dang.

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  41. #141
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    WTF! I find it strange, are they sleeping??? I guess I'm going Sram if they don't get their $h!t together soon.

  42. #142
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    I knew he was lying...

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  43. #143
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    In my experience the SRAM stuff is going to be single season use. Creaky cassettes, fast wearing drivetrain. Gives Shimano a little time to figure it out. Shimanos big argument is limited gear range with big gaps in between. I've been on the SRAM for 6 month, hated the gearing at first but have gotten use to it. Rode a 2x10 last weekend and it seemed...complicated! The front shifter really got in the way of my dropper remote
    I keep telling my Shimano rep I know they have a patent for a 14 speed cassette and chain, just sayin.

  44. #144
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    Shimano's stuff is in general properly engineered and shouldn't be giving too much of a hassle.

    Sold al my X.0 and XX stuff, the creaking of the Type 2 rear derailleur drove me nuts. Same as their crappy brakes.

  45. #145
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    I though maybe they would release something at Intervbike but the reality is 2014 XTR is coming in the spring and it makes sense they release it then.

    Erik

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    I though maybe they would release something at Intervbike but the reality is 2014 XTR is coming in the spring and it makes sense they release it then.

    Erik
    Except for the 2014 XTR Race brakes, wheels, chain, bottom brackets, etc ...

  47. #147
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    so no update at all from shimano?

  48. #148
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    It seems to me that Shimano simply doesn't have an answer to Sram's 1x11. I'm a loyal Shimano guy. Have been for years. Strayed to the XO dark side once and regretted it.

    But it seems to me the great Japanese giant is sleeping. No 12x142 hubs (except the 32hole boat anchors I currently have), no 1x11, and their only carbon mountain bike wheels are tubular???

    Maybe the Tsunami set their country back a year I don't know...

  49. #149
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    As they say...... Patience is a virtue...........

  50. #150
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    If shimano are crafty, their answer to sram's 1x11 would be a 1x12 system. Then they wouldn't have to answer to anybody until sram brings 1x13 to market. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to forecast what the next trend in drivetrains will be

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