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  1. #26
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Quote Originally Posted by limba View Post
    32 ring with a 42 cog = 1.6
    24 ring with a 36 cog = 1.4
    22 ring with a 36 cog = 1.3

    So if you need the 22/36 the 1x11 won't work or you have to suffer on those climbs. Basically you lose a gear.
    You can tune the XX1 to better suit your needs, you can get 28,30,32,34,36,38 chain ring for the front, so yes you have less gears in a range but you can change were the range starts & finishs.

  2. #27
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    Exactly. You just have to do the math and figure out how high and low a gear you need. I would want a 36. That would work for me. The other guy probably wants a 30.

  3. #28
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    Canfield launch a hub compatible with capreo cassette 9t sprocket.. Maybe 9t not so hard to pedalling..... Specialized team dh using own freehub to use 9t sprocket

    9-34t x 32t gives a interesting gear ratio for racing.... Jaroslav runs with 38 chainring and xx1 cassette... Iron legs required

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  4. #29
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    I know it sounds crazy but when you think about it: how about making the chain pitch smaller?

    If manufacturing tolerances have allowed so much narrower chains (8 speed vs 10 speed) why not? Chain pins could remain the same diameter, and the plates could remain the same thickness, just shorter. The rollers would get smaller. Derailleurs and shifters could be compatible with existing setups (assuming the same number of speeds), the only thing that would have to be swapped would be jockey wheels which are nothing more than fancy plastic. That leaves the cassette, chain, and chainring to be must-haves for compatibility, which are all wear items anyway.

    Imagine a 20% shorter chain pitch allowing 20% more teeth per cog without changing the freehub body or needing larger chainrings. This would allow greater range on a cassette while better maintaining the ideal difference between gears of approximately 14%. 12,14,16,19,22,25,29,33,38,44,50 - for example. The 50t would be the size of a 40t with todays standards.

    Throw in a "floating chainring" that moves laterally to improve chainline at the extremes of the cassette and I'd be a really happy camper. Okay, I'm not sure if that one is possible, but it looks like it has been done before as seen here:

  5. #30
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    Mutantclover,
    thumbs up for the innovative thinking!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftajiri View Post
    Canfield launch a hub compatible with capreo cassette 9t sprocket.. Maybe 9t not so hard to pedalling..... Specialized team dh using own freehub to use 9t sprocket

    9-34t x 32t gives a interesting gear ratio for racing.... Jaroslav runs with 38 chainring and xx1 cassette... Iron legs required

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    We followed Shimano's standard that has been around for quite a few years. It has worked well for 20" wheeled bikes to increase the gear range. We think this is a better solution because it shrinks the entire system. I have 1/2" better clearance because of the smaller front ring. I'm running a 28 front on a spiderless crank and a 9-36 rear cassette with a mid length derailleur my 29er and a 32 x 9-28 on my DH bike. Think about the gearing this way, just by running our rear hub (9T), you are able to drop the front ring size by appox 7 teeth. So a 32 tooth x 9T feels like a 39 tooth with an 11t. Bring on the spiderless cranks!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11-28-9-36.jpg  

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  7. #32
    Baby Bear is in the house
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel View Post
    plus one
    Wow, seriously, CoppellStereo, do you go around neg repping everyone whose posts don't agree with your opinion? Unbelievable
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  8. #33
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    Can be swappable capreo free hub into deore xt rear hub?

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  9. #34
    Plays with tools
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel View Post
    Wow, seriously, CoppellStereo, do you go around neg repping everyone whose posts don't agree with your opinion? Unbelievable
    I got it too. "never going to happen" is what he said. Curious why he didn't post that and something to back it up.

  10. #35
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    I would buy an 11-42 1x10 system today. I don't care who makes it, just hurry up already!

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    I would buy an 11-42 1x10 system today. I don't care who makes it, just hurry up already!
    Me too, I need that 42t climbing gear.

  12. #37
    Baby Bear is in the house
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel View Post
    Wow, seriously, CoppellStereo, do you go around neg repping everyone whose posts don't agree with your opinion? Unbelievable
    Thanks to all those who + rep'd me. You didn't have to, but thanks all the same.
    I'm feeling the love

    PS
    I wanna return the favor but don't know how to without having to search for your posts in other threads (ya didn't post in this thread!)
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  13. #38
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    [QUOTE=Mutantclover;10000213]

    . The 50t would be the size of a 40t with todays standards.

    Throw in a "floating chainring" that moves laterally to improve chainline at the extremes of the cassette and I'd be a really happy camper. Okay, I'm not sure if that one is possible, but it looks like it has been done before as seen here:


    The chain rings wouldn't get any smaller if you tightened the pitch of the chain up. Gearing is about the diameter of the gears not the number of teeth they have or engage.

    I like the idea of the floating front ring in theory With current drive trains I don't think it's necessarily, but it could open some doors. That little gear box you posted seems like it might be a good setup to run as a transmission inside the main frame of a complicated suspension bike.

  14. #39
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    There is a 11-40 cassette made called the General Lee sold on ebay that looks interesting. I would post a link but I don't have enough posts on here to be allowed. I would love a 1X system but 1300.00 for the XX1 is a little steep for me.

  15. #40
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    You can buy XX1 for under 1000 dollars. Do a search.

  16. #41
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    Please tell me where you can buy the XX1 set up for under 1000. With the cranks, derailleur, cassette, hub adaptor and shifter I can't find for under 1300.00. For under 1000.00 I might give it a try. I also would have to buy a smaller front ring since I can't push a 32 where I ride. That's another 100.00$$$, must be made of unobtainium.

  17. #42
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    Re: Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    The more important question is about the extreme cogs... The bigger and the smaller.. Isn't the one gear more.... Mtb not sensitive as road bikes to need progressive downshifts or upshifts



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  18. #43
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    Upgrade cycle has xx1 for $980.89 but no hub adapter. XX1 - Parts

  19. #44
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    For anyone that can live with a narrower overall gearing range than the 10-42 XX1 cassette, you can get yourself to either end of the spectrum with a 1x10 setup today. 24 in front with an 11-36 cassette gets you the same granny ratio as XX1's 28 front 42 rear combo - with a lighter chain ring and a lighter cassette. Go 22 up front and you get an even lower granny ratio (and lighter weight, though negligible). Want more of the go fast gears and less of the granny climbing gears? Go larger up front...

    Fred

  20. #45
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    You can go 1x1 and get to either end of the gearing spectrum. Way lighter as well. *sarcasm*

    The whole point of XX1 (or at least one major benefit) is you're hardly giving up any of your gearing range compared to a traditional triple. That's why people are finally making the switch.

  21. #46
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    Guys, I have found a way to make a functional 9-40 10speed cassette! Yes, with bigger range than 10-42 XX1.

    Take one of the SRAM cassette wich include a 19t and 22t cogs(like some PG1070, 1050, 1030).

    For the lower side, take a Canfield 9t Microdrive Rear Hub(Simano capreo compatible) and put the Canfield 9t conversion cogs(which have 9-11-13-16 cogs).

    For the upper side, put a LEONARDI FACTORY “GENERAL LEE” cassette adapter which include 25-29 and 34-40 cogs.

    You en up with a wide range 10 speed cassette with pretty equal jumps between gear ratios!

    Te result will feel like this...

    tooth / step ratio "hardness" increase:

    40
    34 / 18%
    29 / 17%
    25 / 16%
    22 / 14%
    19 / 16%
    16 / 19%
    13 / 23%
    11 / 18%
    9 / 22%

    Somebody see any impediment to this assembly? Is this a good or bad idea?

    I let you look about price and weight...

    I personaly guess that the capreo 9t hub standard is the next move from shimano to face off the SRAM XX1.
    Last edited by in-vico; 03-19-2013 at 03:36 AM.

  22. #47
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    I wonder if the new XTR will have Di2 or carbon wheels. Shimano makes awesome road/cross wheels. I'm sure they could make a $1200 carbon wheel and take a huge chunk out of Enve's market.

  23. #48
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    [QUOTE=customfab;10080677]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutantclover View Post

    . The 50t would be the size of a 40t with todays standards.

    Throw in a "floating chainring" that moves laterally to improve chainline at the extremes of the cassette and I'd be a really happy camper. Okay, I'm not sure if that one is possible, but it looks like it has been done before as seen here:


    The chain rings wouldn't get any smaller if you tightened the pitch of the chain up. Gearing is about the diameter of the gears not the number of teeth they have or engage.

    I like the idea of the floating front ring in theory With current drive trains I don't think it's necessarily, but it could open some doors. That little gear box you posted seems like it might be a good setup to run as a transmission inside the main frame of a complicated suspension bike.
    I know what you mean by the diameter being what matters, but the reason I propose this is not to change diameter a great deal but rather to leave it almost the same while avoiding the problems associated with going down to very small numbers of teeth on a cog. There is a reason drivetrains have had a 11 tooth small cog for so long and its not just because of the cassette body standard. First off I hear that you feel some vibration and lose some efficiency on a 9 tooth. I could swear I have felt vibration on worn 11 tooth cogs to be honest. Secondly you are stuck with either too large or too small differences between one gear and another (10-11 tooth you have a 10% difference which is lower than optimal and 10-12 tooth is a 20% difference which is higher than optimal. It is important to optimize this for consistant feel and to maximize range/minimize cassette width).

    Secondly the floating ring I am imagining would not move the same distance as the width of the cassette, as it does in the picture I showed. The picture is just to give an idea of the sort of "floating" I'm talking about, and to illustrate the fact that the mechanism to make it do so could actually be pretty simple (theoretically. I don't know if it could be so simple and actually work). My idea is the chainring would only move a couple gears worth of distance either way. IE if you have a good chainline in the center 6 gears right now, an acceptable chainline in the 2nd and 9th gear, and a sub-optimal chainline in the 1st and 10th gears, having a chainring that would move 5 mm either direction of the center would eliminate that (and make it more viable to make the cassette a little wider too, while just using one chainring).

  24. #49
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    Switching to a smaller pitch chain means that the teeth on all the gears will be proportionally smaller. I think that it could mean that the teeth will be easier to damage and/or the chain more likely to skip.

  25. #50
    Pex
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    Check out this photo, I believe this is a Shimano electronic 1x11 prototype.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

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