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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    Very good points and I do agree. I'm just frustrated since I feel a good number of people have been asking for something like XX1 since 9 speed was released. Shimano's answer has always been "No, you don't know what you're talking about, you won't like it". I'm glad SRAM did it and hopefully it will cause Shimano to rethink their stance.
    I completely agree, and have started getting impatient as well. I wish shimano would come out with a solid 1x offering to compete with XX1 sooner than later. I'm a much bigger fan of shimano products vs sram, but part of that is due to the fact that shimano generally takes their time when developing something vs allowing the consumer to do the beta testing.

    Quote Originally Posted by PlanB View Post
    I'd be pretty surprised if there isn't a "new and improved" mechanical XTR alongside any electronic offerings. They continued to improve mechanical Dura Ace after Di2 was released and, if anything, the buy in for electronic shifting will be less on the mtb side than it is on the road.

    I would also be surprised if they don't rethink the XTR crank offerings. I could see them ditching the triple and the "race" double in favour of one new crank with double and single ring options. On the road side, the new DA and Ultegra now have a single spider for compact, standard rings.

    To me, the big question is what do they do out back? 11 speed? 10-42? Personally, I'm hoping for some kind of 10-speed wide range setup but I'm doubtful. My guess is a whole new freehub and an 11 speed cassette.
    I hope that shimano will keep evolving the mechanical groupsets, as they have done on the road. I recently swapped to ultegra 6800 from dura ace 7900 on my road bike and the improvement is huge. The only 'gotcha' is the new freehub body that it forces, which for the most part won't fit mtb hubs due to no backward compatible wider freehub offerings by the hub manufacturers. Something tells me shimano will go with and 11 speed 11-40, 11-42, or even 11-44 cassette, which will force a wider freehub as it does on the road, and will likely share the same dimensions as the 11 speed road cassette to keep things consistent. It seems 11-42 offers a pretty wide range and would allow someone to run a slightly larger 1x chainring than they normally could with a 11-36. My current 1x setup is a 32x11-36. Great for most riding around where I live, but would kill me in the steep mountains at high altitude. However, now that wolftooth offers a 42t cog that will fit my XT cassette I could always swap to one of those and have a lower ratio. The only problem with that is the big ratio jump from 15-19... which seems to be in a bad spot.

    In terms of the crankset I think shimano would be very wise to go with a removable spider design for the next generation stuff. I used to be completely sold on shimano cranks until I used a few of the SRAM removable spider designs. It really opens your options without forcing an odd BCD. I'm running wolftooth direct mount rings on two sram cranksets right now and really like the simplicity and reduced weight that the direct mount chainrings allow.

  2. #252
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    Stolen from WW forum...






  3. #253
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    Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    Still the other S wins....for a true 1x WR 11spd mtnbike groupset...

    Pity Shimano, I expected equal or more....

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripo View Post
    Still the other S wins....for a true 1x WR 11spd mtnbike groupset...

    Pity Shimano, I expected equal or more....
    I'll take Shimano with a General Lee partial cassette over Sram any day.
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  5. #255
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    Maybe the look of the those cranks will grow on me, but I am not so sure. And why stop at 40 tooth? For me this makes a Shimano 1x set-up probably out of my gear ratio range... and I'm not so keen to switch to SRAM. Di-2 on a mountain bike (or in general)?....meh. I think I'm with TwoTone on the modified cassette idea.

    It is early yet and maybe these things will get hashed out for the better. I won't be holding my breath on that though.

  6. #256
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    Yeah shimano has blown this one big time. Honestly, I wish this 1x tech would make its way all the way to road bikes. You know how annoying it is trying to teach new riders what shifters do??? Screw compact cranks give me a 44 with a 10-42 for the road. But I digress, having just moved to Florida and its zero hills, I'm ready to strip off my granny and bignring from my triple crank. With a 10spd drivetrains shimano is still making MTB triple cranks which seems ludicrous to me and I'm 250lbs and need all the help I can get going up hills!

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  7. #257
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    O yeah! I forgot to mention the triples? in 2014? whats the point? With a wide enough range cassette it has been pretty much proven that 1x is the direction and at most a 2x, and this is coming from a guy on a 29er in the Bay Area with plenty of steep and tech climbs.

    Again as details hash out, hopefully this will turn out to be a single spider-less crank with direct mount 1x or 2x or I guess 3x options galore.

  8. #258
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    Finally!

    The cranks are hideous, reminds me of the current Deore cranks except with ugly hollow rings. (Maybe it's just the way the light is cast?)
    Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11-62138.jpg

    I fail to see the benefit of hollow rings, especially on a cog with just 30-36 teeth. Do they really see much lateral load? Luckily the cranks can be easily subbed for something else. And the largest cog of 40 is disappointing, hopefully that is the "race" one for those that want closer ratios and a "trail" version in the 44-46 range will be coming. Other than that, looks good. I've always disliked the bulky look of trigger shifters, not to mention the ergonomics of throwing that downshift lever, nice to see something smaller.

    And no, electronic is not a bad thing, it will be a great option as long as they also offer high-end cable-driven groups.

  9. #259
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    The only other consideration. I have for my current drive train is to go from my 11-36 down to an 11-25 and then I will have road bike like cadence gaps and can start using my granny ring again

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  10. #260
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    I think you have to look at it from shimanos POV. They seem to have decided that they aren't interested in making people buy a new wheel or a $100 driver, so they have elected to keep things the same with just a little variation.

    You get 11 gears which is just one extra gear - it isn't a revolution that's for sure, but at least it still uses the same cassette body and the same deraileur architecture - therefore it's an upgrade option and mixing and matching is possible, with xx1 you need a compatible wheelset, an xd driver, a shifter, a cassette and a deraileur.

    Critically it also means at a race you can swap out a rear wheel in case of a failure - anyone's spare rear will do as long as it has a std ubiquitous cassette body.

    Ps - hopefully it's only a. $200 cassette as well.

  11. #261
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    Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    I also set up my carbon HT that has cyclocross tyres with 36t and X01.....sort of like your roadbike wish cpfitness, 1x roadie is a distinct possibility.

    Yep, Shimano are just plain stubborn to cycling re-invention.

  12. #262
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    Shimano road 11 is entirely incompatible with its predecessors. A new wider freehub body is needed to handle the wider cassette. I can't imagine that Shimano mtb 11 will work with any 10 spd parts.

    Expect the XTR cassette to be way more than $200.
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  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by bog View Post
    Shimano road 11 is entirely incompatible with its predecessors. A new wider freehub body is needed to handle the wider cassette. I can't imagine that Shimano mtb 11 will work with any 10 spd parts.

    Expect the XTR cassette to be way more than $200.
    Well if that is the case , then they got nothin'!

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by bog View Post
    Shimano road 11 is entirely incompatible with its predecessors. A new wider freehub body is needed to handle the wider cassette. I can't imagine that Shimano mtb 11 will work with any 10 spd parts.
    This. I've seen one or two MTB hubs recently released with modified flange spacing and mention of "Shimano 11 speed" so my fears have now been validated. You thought buying a new driver for SRAM 11 speed was bad? How about a whole new hub with even worse flange spacing? I was hoping Shimano would finally see the light, but this confirms they're just on an entirely different page than I. 11-40 with a minimum of a 30t on the crank? And electronic shifting? No thanks to all of that. Bring on the SRAM x9-1!

  15. #265
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    Yep I figure the very distinct possibility of a new hub flange spacing is imminent in order to make space for the wider free-hub body. I do think a properly re-spaced 142mmx12 hub would still offer sufficient bracing angles for a pretty stiff wheel build, but that does not mean I want to be forced to do it just to use Shimano's latest offering.

    And Mutant, I never said electronic was bad, just meh! I'm sure it will shift awesome, but when I'm in the throws of a really fast techy single track ride, I never think about my shifting and just do it. In fact, if I focus at all on my bike and not the line or terrain it is the brakes, suspension, tires and then the gearing...well before the shifting. I won't personally be paying extra for it.
    Last edited by oaklandish; 02-14-2014 at 09:21 AM. Reason: clarification

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaklandish View Post
    Yep I figure the very distinct possibility of a new hub spacing is imminent. I do think a properly re-spaced 142mmx12 hub would still offer sufficient bracing angles for a pretty stiff wheel build, but that does not mean I want to be forced to do it just to use Shimano's latest offering.
    Shimano generally isn't one to mess with things like hub spacing. You can be sure it'll be 135QR and 12X142 compatible. They definitely don't mind changing up standards a bit but pretty much always ensure that you can put it on a reasonably new frame.

    Not all 10spd road hubs can be converted to 11spd but many can with a new free hub body and a wheel redish. Funny thing is that none of Shimano's 10spd wheels or hubs can be converted to 11spd. I stay away from their hubs and wheels for this reason.

    Also, I'm a huge fan of Shimano and Di2 so I'm looking forward to seeing more of this. I'd use this on my XC bike which has a double or triple crank depending on the ride (1X11 just doesn't have enough of a gear range) and I really like that Shimano has gone with a 30T option for a chainring. Absolutely perfect IMO!
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  17. #267
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    I think this is going to flop, hard. I don't like Sram 2x10, but XX1 is sweet. I think ill be running 10 speed for a long time. I just this month converted from 9 speed.

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  18. #268
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    What is the point of 11 speed with 2 or 3 front rings?
    and 11 - 40 is kinda narrow.

  19. #269
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    Re: Shimano's answer to SRAM's 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    What is the point of 11 speed with 2 or 3 front rings?
    and 11 - 40 is kinda narrow.
    Exactly. 11-40 on a 1x is fine for me, but not at the expense of a new hub.

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  20. #270
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    Disappointing. Not worth it for me to upgrade just to go from 11-36 to 11-40.

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    Disappointing. Not worth it for me to upgrade just to go from 11-36 to 11-40.
    Especially when you can buy 42t cog and 16t (to replace 15 and 17) and make a 10sp equivalent.

  22. #272
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    The compromise you (and I) make is the slow and sometimes clumsy shifting with the add on 42T. With XX1/01 and I'm sure with Shimano...you'll get clean, crisp, and fast shifting every time. No compromise...except for the lighter wallet.
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  23. #273
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    The opportunity to use 2x11 or 1x11 that only be possible with Shimano is the point. For those 1x11 is enough Sram is the best choice.

  24. #274
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    The rear derailleur looks mechanical but that front definitely looks Di2. Too many people complaining about the cassette range.

  25. #275
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    This all makes me kinda wonder if shimano didnt just give up. On one hand, they know they have so much market share and plenty of people are getting by just fine with shimano 10speed 1x systems so perhaps they are just fine with it as is and are hanging their hats on their name as well as better brake products. Xx1 addressed several issues(chain retention on 1x system, low and high end range on 1x systems, weight). SRAM could justify bringing it out at top level pricing. Shimano wznts us to pay xtr level prices for what? A 40t cog? What other features is this going to have?

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