Shimano is Good but SRAM...well..
is starting to really get me interested. I've been a loyal big S fan for nearly all my years of cycling. Nearly 25 yrs that is. I've seen a lot of changes with S and wondered why they did some of those changes (like why drop those great M755 4-pots). And other times I've wondered why not changing sooner (no carbon cranks, or releasing new innovations at only the XTR level before the XT and SLX, marketing?). I've always stayed aware of the other big S's products, but just stayed with Shimano. BUT...
In August, SRAM is coming out with a friction rear derailleur AND it will be released in the XO and X9 version. The X9 will retail for $116, less than half the price of the XTR Shadow Plus. Okay, maybe not a fair price comparison given the class difference, but again, Shimano. Why the slow release for XT Plus?
The SRAM XG-1099 is artwork on a bike. A 1-piece machined cassette! Of course at 4 bills, the price is prohibitive for most folks, but it shows their innovation and committment to venturing into new ground. Eventually it may be available at a lower price point down the road. You know how technology changes, advances, and lowers prices. For the $400 price, you get a super stiff, light weight cassette. Maybe it'll outlast several XTR cassettes? IDK.
Why no carbon Shimano cranks? With carbon sweeping the industry with improvements in stiffness and weight, it seems natural to offer carbon.
So, given the attractive offerings from SRAM, I might be convert. Just saying...
We Ride In God's Country!
Shimano is good, Sram, not as good - but lighter... Shimano is great in the brake dept when compared to Sram.
When SRAM can make their carbon cranks as stiff as Shimano's aluminum cranks, then it may be worth a comparison. But...since SRAM's carbon cranks are sorely lacking in stiffness, there's not much to talk about.
Now if all you're looking for is light weight and stiffness isn't a priority, there are lots of junk carbon cranks out there. After all aren't most carbon cranks designed by the marketing/sales departments?
Oh, and when exactly is SRAMS Shadow+ copy going to hit the market? What kind of innovation is SRAM bringing to the market with that? Shimano's innovation with the Shadow+ clutch is the greatest innovation to mtb rear derailleurs since index shifting.
How exactly is the reliability of those super lightweight SRAM brakes?
May the air be filled with tires!
Don't get me wrong. I like Shimanos products. I'm just pointing out some issues I've been noticing making SRAM intriguing to me.
Are SRAM carbon cranks really that flexy? IDK. I was just wondering why Shimano hasn't made carbon cranks when they have other carbon products.
The new SRAM clutch rear dérailleur serves the same purpose for chain control. Id like to see the internals but they haven't let the press see it yet.
SRAM shifting is 1:1 ratio. I remember it not working well for me but I am having trouble getting my shimano to shift right too.
We Ride In God's Country!
I refuse to get in to a slanging match of mine is better than yours....
Ive got SRAM X7 on my 2009 GT Avalanche and im ashamed to say that bike has not seen much love at all.......its been worked hard, had next to no oil, never been serviced.....
It just keeps going ive not changed anything from stock not even a chain.
My current Stumpy FSR has X9 components and thats pretty much bullet proof ok thats had a chain and a cassette but thats all its needed.
Correct me if im wrong but isnt the blurb for the Carbon Cranks from SRAM that the BB bends before the arms break? well if thats weak then id sure be happy to put it on my bike. Maybe its down to the type of riding that people do that dictates their limits to Carbon?
This debate has been raging since the first Carbon frame came out.
15 Canfield Riot
?? Carver 420 TI
13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass
2013! I could be dead by then!
Originally Posted by TwoTone
XTR cranks are actually lighter than the carbon X.0 and XX cranks, as well as stiffer, so what's the advantage of going to carbon?
I do like the X.0 cranks, though. They are plenty stiff for me, and I like the removable spider, which allows me run a spiderless single ring for SS or 1x, or run different spiders for 2x or 3x.
I'm currently running a 2012 XT drivetrain on my trail bike, except I'm using an X.0 crankset set up 22/33/bash. I was considering upgrading to the XTR Shadow+ rear der., but now that SRAM is coming out with their type 2 rear der. and 10-speed twist shifters I might switch to that. I think that both SRAM and Shimano work great, but I've always liked twist shifters, and that's really the only thing that would drive me toward SRAM at this point. For trigger shifters, I like Shimano a little better -- the instant release and double release are nice.
I like Shimano better than SRAM in terms of quality and reliability.
I had a bike that had the old Shimano Alivio components back when Alivio was Shimano's lowest class system. I also had a Giant Trance with SRAM X-9 components. It was a nightmare, they were always giving me problems and had to be adjusted constantly.
The Alivio set was awesome though. Never did I have a problem with it, and I rode that bike hard. All it asked for was a cleaning and slight adjustment once in a while.
How is it that the lowest class system from Shimano outperformed one of SRAM's higher class systems in terms of quality?
That right there is enough proof to me that Shimano is the overall better maker of bike components.
Last edited by Trail Addict; 04-06-2012 at 11:06 AM.
I remember seeing an add one time from shimano and it went like this
"CNC machined parts (aka sram), we make those, for our prototypes"
Cold Forged, nuff said.
Shimano may be a soul-less bicycle parts company (soul-less = colorless, no excitement ect), but boy are they strong and last forever.
I think it's the benefits are split between them. I do love Shimano brakes, no frills, just great stopping power and full free wheeling when released. While SRAM shifters and rear derailiuers (sp?) for me work beautifully. I think the SRAM carbon cranks are pretty sweet too.
Originally Posted by blum585
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (sucks)
They've already done that. They made a carbon D/A crank. Which was 3 times the cost of the cold-forged aluminum one and not any better. When they can make a better crank out of C than Al, they will.
Originally Posted by myitch
no doubt - the fact that they use Al on their road and mtn parts would seem to indicate they see an advantage. I don't know about stiffness on carbon cranks - I think they are plenty stiff (I thought ROTOR cranks were carbon and known for being ultra-stiff). I think one of the real issues with carbon is threaded inserts for pedals have to be glued in and tend to fail sometimes. If carbon doesn't offer any real weight saving in the cranks then why risk a glued-in pedal thread that is going to be subjected to lots of twisting force and exposed to solvents repeatedly during maintenance? It hasn't happened to me yet but a friend had to pedal home one-legged for quite a ways a few weeks ago when his pedal insert backed out of his carbon cranks, which were one week out of warranty.
Originally Posted by epic
Flying in High in the Sky
In this day n age carbon-fiber is so over-rated. Everyone seems to think that carbon fiber is the ultimate alternative to metal. While true for certain applications, sometimes you need the flexability of metal. Keep in mind carbon fiber cannot be fixed or welded. If there is a slightest crack, it's history. All you have left with is expensive dead weight. Carbon fiber crank arms?..No thanks, not for me, i'll stick to cold forge aluminum.
Amen to that brotha!
Originally Posted by James_spec
Fair points, but...
Originally Posted by myitch
Shimano 4pot caliper lives on in the Saint/Zee groups
The clutch rear derailleur is a Shimano innovation that has now filtered through two lower groups which you can buy now - SRAM so far are still catching up.
You want cassette innovation? 2013 Shimano Dura-Ace has a carbon spider with 11speeds...that can be electronically shifted.
As a previous poster mentioned, pedal inserts do fail on carbon cranks. Easton even design a hexagonal insert on their cranks to address the shearing forces have upon the bonding materials. Not a problem with alloy
Having said that, I do appreciate the racing-driven philosophy of SRAM drive trains. I just find Shimano to be far more refined and easier to live with.
Ego maniacs please object to my posts.
It is awesome that we have two great choices for mtb. drivetrains. It has been said and I will repeat it that if you said back in 1995 there would be another big drivetrain maker and based in the united states as well people would have doubted you. We need them to both stay on top of their games and push each other because in the end the consumer wins. Except for brakes of course..I had to say it...(they will pry my xtr race's out of my cold dead hands)
Im speccing up my dream build and so im taking on board all (well most) disussions reviews and personal reviews of all products.....I like my SRAM Elixirs, theyve not caused me any problems at all.
So far ive been looking at an XO build and XO brakes but id be willing to swap them for the Icetech XTs or XTRs but i fancy having a clean Bar and using the matchmakers to connect shifters and brakes on one clamp (not to mention for the HUGE weight saving this will give me *read sarcasm*)
Does anyone do a matchmaker for SRAM to Shimano? only other matchmaker ive heard of was Hope brakes.
I still have no interested in SRAM. I would even avoid buying a bike build up with SRAM.
Everyone I know with SRAM brakes hates them.
I don't want carbon crank arms. I don't think that even makes sense. I would take XTR or Hollowgram cranks everyday over XX.
How are SRAM's mtn bike pedals doing? Oh yeah, they don't make them.
I've seen tons of bent Sram cassettes. I don't remember ever seeing bent Shimanos.
Don't even get me started about the old Gripshift stuff or their road components.
I think SRAM is cheaper and lighter but nothing they make is better than Shimano.
How are those Shimano Brifters working out for y'all?
I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
Bucky the Cat
Always had Big-S, Except for one bike with an Sachs/Sram gear hub, Next bike will have SRAM because I want to test it.
Dont hate on Gshift, ive seen worse.. [Suntour X-press, Sram triggers]
Originally Posted by limba