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  1. #1
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    I was told 1:1 ratio works better of FS bikes than 2:1

    I was at my LBS yesterday discussing the SRAM/Shimano thing and taking a few test rides. I need a new drivetrain so they were helping me out.

    He had nothing bad to say about Shimano since most companies use XTR on their upper end bikes (S-Works Epic for example). But he said Shimano's 2:1 ratio is more designed for HT bikes and loses some performance on FS.

    I have XTR now on my Epic and it seems to run very good. It just gets moody on the shifting sometimes. My pods (LX) are toast so that is driving the component change.

    Any feedback on this ratio thing would be great.

    (I did do a search, but I swear the search feature here sucks)

  2. #2
    I already rode that
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    Cables are the biggest factor for smooth shifting along with the housing being the proper length between the cable stops on the frame. Also as to why some ppl run full length housing over using the cable stops on the frame. XTR is finickier for a "perfect" setup too.
    Riding F/S since oct 94'

  3. #3
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Yeah... I would say that cables and the right length of housing play a bigger role.... I had an Epic for 2 years with no shifting issues and now have a Yeti 575 and I have run the same shimano xt parts on both of them without problems. I do run full housing on the 575 (since it is meant to be so)

  4. #4
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppie58
    I was at my LBS yesterday discussing the SRAM/Shimano thing and taking a few test rides. I need a new drivetrain so they were helping me out.

    He had nothing bad to say about Shimano since most companies use XTR on their upper end bikes (S-Works Epic for example). But he said Shimano's 2:1 ratio is more designed for HT bikes and loses some performance on FS.

    I have XTR now on my Epic and it seems to run very good. It just gets moody on the shifting sometimes. My pods (LX) are toast so that is driving the component change.

    Any feedback on this ratio thing would be great.

    (I did do a search, but I swear the search feature here sucks)
    Over the past 7 years I have used many shimano and sram drivetrain, and as far ae the rear deraileur goes, I think sram is a better design. The problem used to be that the upper end rear deraileurs werer too fragile, but that seems to have been worked out with the X series stuff. What I especially appreciate about sram shifters and deraileurs is that the cheaper lines (x-7, x-9) still work nearly as well (for practical purposes just as well) as the stupid expensive x-o line. I don't find that to be the case with shimano. The rear deraileurs are all work fine (deore-xtr), but the lower end shifters suck.

    And I do find 1:1 works better overall than 2:1. Yes, cables and housing always play a big part in shifting quality, but they play an even bigger part in 2:1. 1:1 is far more tolerant of older/misadjusted cables, as well as cable tension fluctuations resulting from a long travel bike movin gthrough it's travel.

    The difference is not worth buying a new drivetrain over, but if you are buying new, I think SRAM is clearly the way to go. And don't get yourself talked into the x-o stuff unless you need the absolute best. The x-7 and x-9 still, IMO outperform anything by shimano.

    I'm not trying to bash shimano, I think for front deraileur and cassette they are the only way to go, and they make great cranks, v-brakes, and hubs (xt are a great value), but when it comes to rear der and shifter, sram is just a better product, IMO.

  5. #5
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    I'll raise the BS flag here.

    I ran XT on a Turner Burner for a year. No shifting issues.

    I ran a combination of XT and XTR on an AS-Rsl. Sweet bike, sweeter shifting. I did change the rear housing loop about every three months to keep my shifting buttery smooth. Other than that, no issues.

    I ran XTR on my 575 for about a year. No problems at all, although I will admit to having to adjust my rear derailleur using the barrel adjuster TWICE!!! OMG!

    I have run XTR on my Specialized Stumpjumper FSR for 12 months as of next week. I had to twist the barrel adjuster about two months ago. That's it. I have a tad over 1800 miles on this bike. Several tires and tubes. Had to send my Triad in for warranty work.

    I tried the X-9 stuff on my Turner. Not impressed. I will stick with XT and XTR stuff. It works beautifully with FS bikes.

  6. #6
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    BS on what?

    Quote Originally Posted by azdrawdy
    I ran XT on a Turner Burner for a year. No shifting issues.

    I ran a combination of XT and XTR on an AS-Rsl. Sweet bike, sweeter shifting. I did change the rear housing loop about every three months to keep my shifting buttery smooth. Other than that, no issues.

    I ran XTR on my 575 for about a year. No problems at all, although I will admit to having to adjust my rear derailleur using the barrel adjuster TWICE!!! OMG!

    I have run XTR on my Specialized Stumpjumper FSR for 12 months as of next week. I had to twist the barrel adjuster about two months ago. That's it. I have a tad over 1800 miles on this bike. Several tires and tubes. Had to send my Triad in for warranty work.

    I tried the X-9 stuff on my Turner. Not impressed. I will stick with XT and XTR stuff. It works beautifully with FS bikes.
    On what part are you calling BS here?

    You just said "I'm calling BS" but then did not really refute any of the points I brought up. You brought up that it's not that much trouble to change a shifter housing every three months, and I agree, but it's still more maintenance and you just supported my claim that Shimano is more maintenance. As I said, I don't think it's worth switching drivetrains over. I have a Shimano drivetrain on one of my bikes, and I'm not going to get rid of it (though the LX shifter is beginning to annoy me). I just think that if one is buying new that the SRAM design has some advantages (less maintenance). What does Shimano offer over SRAM?

    "I was not impressed" does not say very much. What was the problem? Anybody I know who has used high end Shimano and the newer SRAM offerings finds them to work equaly well when both are properly set up, except for a few that prefer SRAM. Most people just decide by whichever shifting mechanism they prefer (Shimano triggers, SRAM triggers, Shimano's integrated brake lever/shifter, SRAM Gripshift)

    EDIT: Oops, you actually said "I'll raise the BS flag" sorry about the misquote.

  7. #7
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    Wasn't directed at you kapusta.

    It was 100% directed at an LBS saying Shimano is more suited to HT than FS. That's it.

    The not impressed part: I am one of those people that experienced an X-9 snapping off, JRA. I posted with pictures. II know the SRAM-ites won't ever accept that it happens, but there are plenty of instances of it occurring.

  8. #8
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    Wasn't directed at you kapusta.

    It was 100% directed at an LBS saying Shimano is more suited to HT than FS. That's it.
    [/QUOTE]

    Got it. Forget most of my comments, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by azdrawdy
    The not impressed part: I am one of those people that experienced an X-9 snapping off, JRA. I posted with pictures. II know the SRAM-ites won't ever accept that it happens, but there are plenty of instances of it occurring.
    Well, that sucks. I hope they've gotten that straightened out. I know first hand about how the older 9.0 and 9.0sl models were too fragile. The 9.0 snapped out of nowhere (though SRAM replaced it for free), but the 9.0 sl was the result of a pretty fat stick, in the spokes. My buddy did the same to a shimano. It just happens. What I learned from that is not to spend too much on a rear deraileur if you ride places with lots of loose sticks. But yeah, a deraileur should not just snap out of nowhere. My X-9 has taken many, many bad hits in the three years I've had it and is doing fine.

  9. #9
    Master of the Face Plant
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    Over the past 20 years I have run just about every drivetrain component imaginable and my opinion on SRAM vs. Shimano is this. Shimano's XT and XTR rear deraillers are pretty tough. I have beat them on rocks and logs and rarely had any breakage. They are however more difficult to get dialed in and the lack of the barrel adjuster on the XTR makes it a bit harder to get the perfect shifts.

    SRAM stuff is much easier to setup and in my experience shifting is quicker and more reliable. On reall rough stuff I have found that they skip a little less also. Duribility however is lacking. I broke one once by bumping it at low speed on a log, something I feel my XTR would have taken. My newer X.9 however has taken some hard hits and it is still working well.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we could have the durability of Shimano with the easy maintenance, setup and shifting of SRAM?

  10. #10
    the train keeps rollin
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    Shimano derailleurs take a beating, SRAM don't.. countless threads of SRAMs in pieces on the trail, as stated above, they seem to functional well, but durability is lacking. Hopefully Sram is addressing this. They do have a better cable path into the rear derailleur. X7 SRAM looks like cheezy plastic crappp IMO.

    I run XT and XTR, but would like to try X0 sometime, but it's way over priced!! I can find XTR rear derailleurs for $89, X0 $179, get real!

    As for tunning,, geez an occasional twist of a barrel adjuster, man that really bites.. LOL, big deal.

    Oh, you can also add Jagwire barrel adjuster to rear RD if you need that function.

    So getting back to what to choose.. I would go no less than XT or X9, but the jury is out on X9 RD durability..

  11. #11
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    I have been reading a lot about the SRAM's issues with durability. I did have my XTR torn off before but it has taken a literal beating with no issues at all.

    I think I am going with the new XTR DR and XT triggers. I've come very close to X.0 RD and x.9 triggers but just couldn't do it.

  12. #12
    the train keeps rollin
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    xtr RD

    wheelworld.com has XTRM960 RDs for $89..

  13. #13
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    stick with shimano ive had no problems,apart from me fitting a cheap arse cable and nothing working,then i fitted a clarkes cable system and had no problems what so ever.

    maybe your lbs gets more commission if he flogs you sram.

  14. #14
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    SRAM works way better in my opinion. I had Shimano XT for about 10 years and it was normal to me to readjust my drivetrain at least every two month.

    I hated that fiddling with the cable adjusters and bought a Rohloff - hated it too (too heavy and too much friction)

    Then I went X9 and adjusted it only once in 3 years!!! I couldn'd be happier!

  15. #15
    the goose is loose!
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    to the contrary of sram deraileurs' knuckles being fragile, i have a story. i did a small drop down a hill and the derailleur got stuck in the wheel. it caught on a spoke, and it just started skidding the wheel. the lower link was slightly bent, but that's it. people usually only post about their problems. if there is a problem with something, they post. they don't usually post about how wonderfully everything works. take the news. you never hear anything about the "war" in iraq except that people die.

  16. #16
    TranceX Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm_racer
    to the contrary of sram deraileurs' knuckles being fragile, i have a story. i did a small drop down a hill and the derailleur got stuck in the wheel. it caught on a spoke, and it just started skidding the wheel. the lower link was slightly bent, but that's it. people usually only post about their problems. if there is a problem with something, they post. they don't usually post about how wonderfully everything works. take the news. you never hear anything about the "war" in iraq except that people die.
    Yeah, I agree... After all, it makes to me...

  17. #17
    enjoying the kool-aid
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    I've had no issues with my X9 rear derailleur. I've been using my 2004-05 derailleur for the past 2 years almost. I've hit it more times than I'd care to say. I've bent derailleur hangers and bent the parallelagram twice. I just bent the section back with a vice grip and the derailleur shifts perfectly again. At some point I'll upgrade to '07 X9 whenever this one finally bites the dust, or I get a new bike. btw- I'm using it on a Ventana Pantera 4" travel full suspension bike.

    I'm wondering when Shimano will get rid of that stupid hoop of cable going into the derailleur. I just had a buddy who's hoop got sucked into the cassette and the housing basically exploded!! bad design for sure...

  18. #18
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    If the cable loop got sucked into the cassette, it was far too long.
    Get over it!

  19. #19
    enjoying the kool-aid
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    Quote Originally Posted by lebikerboy
    If the cable loop got sucked into the cassette, it was far too long.
    It wasn't and that is the only explanation we could come up as to why the housing exploded. Maybe it didn't get sucked in but it sure looked like it did. Luckily we had some tape with us and taped it up to get through the day, then replaced it that night.

  20. #20
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    One other thing to consider, for me I really did not like the SRAM push push, I found one of the levers to have too much travel to make it shift, and since I have dodgy thumb joints didn't like the idea of all that continual use of the same joint.
    FWIW I have Shimano LX on my Reign, works fine for me.

  21. #21
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    Shimano rear d. will swing up and hit the chainstay on the fsr design. Thats the only difference. I think shimano is better, and run it on all my bikes, even the completes that ship with sram.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoking39
    Shimano rear d. will swing up and hit the chainstay on the fsr design. Thats the only difference. I think shimano is better, and run it on all my bikes, even the completes that ship with sram.
    Say, If you've got any SRAM rear d's laying around, I'll swap you for a Shimano.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    Say, If you've got any SRAM rear d's laying around, I'll swap you for a Shimano.
    Nope. Im an avid user of ebay

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