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  1. #1
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    Dyna-Sys Venting Thread, Not Star Wars!

    30 speeds hits the mountain bike range

    Thanks Shimano!

    Now you will have to shift atleast 2 gears on the rear in most situations where one shift was sufficient on an 8 speed setup! (This criticism is based on the last time I went with a 10 speed rear cassette on my road bike........ I have since switched back to 9 speeds back there!)

    I have no experience other than what I am reading........ and as you can now tell I'm a little disturbed by it's release. Maybe the tighter 10 speed cassette won't be as sensitive to adjustment as the current 9 speed is...... hoping, but doubting! BTW a 10 speed chain works great on current 9 speed setups and makes them less sensitive to fine tuned adjustment! ...... but hey, I'm a mechanic and know how to adjust my barrel adjusters as I ride!........ I guess, I'm worried about teaching my customers to adjust for small changes!

    ...... I was hoping the evolution was going to be dropping one or more of the rear cassette gears down to 8 speeds and keeping the triple up front!...... Then transfer that to road bikes too!.......... I guess I'm still dreaming!........ Good to see SRAM is now the leader in technologies!...... (I'm reeling a bit after my initial post and editing here....... as I guess having as many gears out back as possible reliably is better...... although, my weight conscious mind is always hesitant to add more weight!)
    Last edited by kneejerk; 05-01-2010 at 07:00 AM.

  2. #2
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    Has the cable pull ratio changed? I mean other than adding one more gear in the current 2:1 ratio. Thought I heard that on a video...
    For Sale: EPIC

    Send it!

    www.rayscyclebicycles.com

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=kneejerk]I have no experience other than what I am readingQUOTE]

    That's for sure.

  4. #4
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    Oh look. an informed opinion...

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...e-review-25941

    I'll give it a whirl and then we'll see.

  5. #5
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    I guess I tend to jump to conclusions.

    I do like that Shimano has stayed with a triple, for now.

    I'm just worried about making the adjustments more delicate out back with 10 speeds. Although, 9 speed is already pretty delicate. I'm also worried that shifting up front will suffer more with 10 speed narrower chains.

    I'm getting less skeptical now!

  6. #6
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    I rode a Mojo HD with the new 10 speed. It was great. Smooth shifting in all gears. The only thing I didn't like was it didn't have gear indicators.

    Erik

  7. #7
    A Midwesterner in Europe
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    For me I couldn't care less if it was 10spd or the same 9spd system. I was really hoping for an XC specific 2 chainring crank that was affordable. I've always been happy with Shimano products but recently not so much. When new products come out I want innovation and I'm not seeing it from Shimano.

    The marketing spin Shimano is throwing on it is what bugs me. It seems they clearly were behind the innovation ball, or whatever you may want to it, and didn't have much in the way of new product to offer. This "new system" seemed to come to the market quick. To me they clearly just added another gear even though their marking speak says they didn't. All I see is another gear and some stickers on the same product that say "DYNA-SYS."

    Sorry but to me it seems Shimano brought an old dog to a pony show when they unveiled it at Sea Otter. After reading BikeRadar's "informed opinion" on the group they said what I was thinking. Why the triple? They added when they should have been trying to simplify I think.

    I found another manufacturer that makes a specfic 2 chainring setup for XC riding so really that's the only way we can give our opinion to manufacturers, with our money.

    I'm just not going to buy it.

  8. #8
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    The good thing about having a triple crank is that you can run a bash guard. My "big" ring would be toast in about 3 rides without one.
    "It looks flexy"

  9. #9
    West Chester, PA
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    Shimano is really missing the boat for 2011 by not offering an xt double crank. I think sram is going to sell alot of the new xo doubles.

    I'm at the point with my riding that I rarely use my granny anymore and I'm in agreement that 2 rings max up front is the way to go. 30 is stupid and so is promoting riding around in the big/big rings.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    Shimano is really missing the boat for 2011 by not offering an xt double crank. I think sram is going to sell alot of the new xo doubles.

    I'm at the point with my riding that I rarely use my granny anymore and I'm in agreement that 2 rings max up front is the way to go. 30 is stupid and so is promoting riding around in the big/big rings.
    27 isn't really any less stupid, IMO. In fact, my dream drivetrain would be an XX/O or XTR level 7 speed cassette with 2 up front that are aligned for use in all but maybe the most extreme crossover and a bashguard. THAT would last in the mud.

    I must say that I'm very impressed with how stuff lasts now-a-days compared to the Y2K era.
    "It looks flexy"

  11. #11
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    ???

    Quote Originally Posted by j.king
    For me I couldn't care less if it was 10spd or the same 9spd system. I was really hoping for an XC specific 2 chainring crank that was affordable. I've always been happy with Shimano products but recently not so much. When new products come out I want innovation and I'm not seeing it from Shimano.

    The marketing spin Shimano is throwing on it is what bugs me. It seems they clearly were behind the innovation ball, or whatever you may want to it, and didn't have much in the way of new product to offer. This "new system" seemed to come to the market quick. To me they clearly just added another gear even though their marking speak says they didn't. All I see is another gear and some stickers on the same product that say "DYNA-SYS."

    Sorry but to me it seems Shimano brought an old dog to a pony show when they unveiled it at Sea Otter. After reading BikeRadar's "informed opinion" on the group they said what I was thinking. Why the triple? They added when they should have been trying to simplify I think.

    I found another manufacturer that makes a specfic 2 chainring setup for XC riding so really that's the only way we can give our opinion to manufacturers, with our money.

    I'm just not going to buy it.
    You clearly haven't been listening to the "marketing spin" if it bugs you. The marketing story is that they are offering a drive train that will make your bike more efficient. why would that bug you?
    The majority of suspension frames on the market are designed with a (triple crank) 32t ring in mind because the pivot location is centered around a 32t ring. Double chain ring setups DON'T have a 32t ring and therefore are not as efficient.
    On a double crank your chain is always either locking out or activating your suspension system with chain tension. yes, there are less redundant gears, but they make your bike less efficient. The Dyna-sys system is designed to make the drive train more efficient on the bike by keeping a 32 ring.

  12. #12
    West Chester, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dover
    The majority of suspension frames on the market are designed with a (triple crank) 32t ring in mind because the pivot location is centered around a 32t ring. Double chain ring setups DON'T have a 32t ring and therefore are not as efficient.
    On a double crank your chain is always either locking out or activating your suspension system with chain tension. yes, there are less redundant gears, but they make your bike less efficient. The Dyna-sys system is designed to make the drive train more efficient on the bike by keeping a 32 ring.
    You're kidding right ?

  13. #13
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    ??

    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    You're kidding right ?
    what part sounded funny?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dover
    what part sounded funny?
    All of it. Please insert the appropriate smileys so no one else thinks thats real.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    All of it. Please insert the appropriate smileys so no one else thinks thats real.
    do some research on chain tension and suspension designs before you make your opinion.

    also check out the dyna-sys site. it mentions everything I mentioned in my post
    http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...s/dynasys.html

  16. #16
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    I tend to agree frame designers 'pick' a gear to optimize for and it's not the granny or the big.
    "It looks flexy"

  17. #17
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    Dover is right, but not a 100%. For Dw-link frames he is absolutly right. Suspension designers usually pick a gear ratio and design around it.

    This could be where the pivot is located or how the "anit squat" is working.

    Actually although I don't read MBA that much, I pciked up their last issue on different suspension design. Very well written article.

    Back to the topic though. I'm very excited for the 2x10 drive train. Makes everything closer ration and I use that out here(Colorado) on the big climbs.

    Erik

    Erik

  18. #18
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    I got to ride the new XT group last week. It really is excellent. It was on a Mojo HD demo bike. I think I'm pretty much sold on 2x10. It was really nice that the front ratios are closer together now so that you don't feel the need to shift up in the back when you shift down in the front.

    edit: I just realized I said 2x10... typo, I meant 3x10. It was 3x10!
    Last edited by epic; 06-10-2010 at 06:51 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic
    I got to ride the new XT group last week. It really is excellent. It was on a Mojo HD demo bike. I think I'm pretty much sold on 2x10. It was really nice that the front ratios are closer together now so that you don't feel the need to shift up in the back when you shift down in the front.
    I guess Tom Ritchey was right all along
    "It looks flexy"

  20. #20
    A Midwesterner in Europe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dover
    You clearly haven't been listening to the "marketing spin" if it bugs you. The marketing story is that they are offering a drive train that will make your bike more efficient. why would that bug you?
    The majority of suspension frames on the market are designed with a (triple crank) 32t ring in mind because the pivot location is centered around a 32t ring. Double chain ring setups DON'T have a 32t ring and therefore are not as efficient.
    On a double crank your chain is always either locking out or activating your suspension system with chain tension. yes, there are less redundant gears, but they make your bike less efficient. The Dyna-sys system is designed to make the drive train more efficient on the bike by keeping a 32 ring.
    It bugs me because I think they just added a gear and some new stickers but Shimano says they didn't.

    I'm currently riding a 2x9 system and it seems a lot more efficient than my 3x9. I think with a 3x10 I'd have even more gears that I wouldn't use. If I never used the 22T ring before why would I use it now with ten speed? Especially if there is a option for a 36T on the back.

    Who ever said I rode a bike with rear suspension bike anyway?

    I think Shimano bet the opposite way with their new group because they had to. My guess is that they are thinking that the average mountain biker isn't ready to give up the triple yet so of course they stuck with a triple that's where they think the OE money is. .

    We'll have to see 2011 OE specs on bikes to see who won the OE war.

    My point was that they should have left options open for people who want to have a double but don't want spend the money on XTR.

    This is what BikeRadar said about it after their test ride. Here is the article if you want to read it

    XT Dyna Sys First Ride

    "We left the lot in the big ring and ended up riding in it much more than usual. Shimano took the size down to 42 teeth for the Dyna-Sys concept which, paired with the 36-tooth sprocket out back, gives a much more useful range. We offer a thumbs up for these two improvements as they make the big and middle rings much more usable and the small ring all but obsolete. This brings up our first nitpick: why not just make it a two-ring drivetrain like SRAM?"

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dover
    You clearly haven't been listening to the "marketing spin" if it bugs you. The marketing story is that they are offering a drive train that will make your bike more efficient. why would that bug you?
    The majority of suspension frames on the market are designed with a (triple crank) 32t ring in mind because the pivot location is centered around a 32t ring. Double chain ring setups DON'T have a 32t ring and therefore are not as efficient.
    On a double crank your chain is always either locking out or activating your suspension system with chain tension. yes, there are less redundant gears, but they make your bike less efficient. The Dyna-sys system is designed to make the drive train more efficient on the bike by keeping a 32 ring.

    8-spd is the most efficient for MOUNTAIN biking IMO (maybe even 7)
    Hmmm,I have a 32T double
    what does the # of rings have ANYTHING to do w/ your suspension?
    ID-10-T
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  22. #22
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    Ok, this is my first post and hope not to sound stupid but, let's say that 2 chainrings is the way to go, how bike manufactures are going to chose between 26-39 and 28-42 for a particular bike model without getting 50% of the potential customers piss .

    I will love to have 2x10 with the 26-39 but if the bike comes with a 28-42 I'll hate to walk up those 15+ degree hills.

  23. #23
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    IMHO the folks looking for a strictly 2x crank are missing a key point - namely the bash guard. My guard takes big hits, and shows the damage to prove it. I would trash my chain/big ring with out one and I therefore couldn't consider an SRAM XX. I need a spot to mount it and replacing the big ring seems an ideal way to do it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolande
    Ok, this is my first post and hope not to sound stupid but, let's say that 2 chainrings is the way to go, how bike manufactures are going to chose between 26-39 and 28-42 for a particular bike model without getting 50% of the potential customers piss .

    I will love to have 2x10 with the 26-39 but if the bike comes with a 28-42 I'll hate to walk up those 15+ degree hills.
    26x36t and 28x36t, is less than 2 gear inches difference. You really think you could climb things with the 26t, and not the 28t?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by COLINx86
    26x36t and 28x36t, is less than 2 gear inches difference. You really think you could climb things with the 26t, and not the 28t?

    According to my table the difference is about 4.3 inches. It is almost equivalent at having a 28t vs 30t on the back and the 22 in front.

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