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2008 Xtr!!

14K views 74 replies 28 participants last post by  wheelhot 
#1 ·

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#2 ·
I really like the cable routing/clamp. That Shadow system looks cool. But, what happened to Shimano's stance that their cold-forged alloy parts had better strength-to-weight ratios than cabon? I didn't think they'd turn...

However, I agree, the lust factor is through the roof.
 
#3 ·
Thirdrawn said:
But, what happened to Shimano's stance that their cold-forged alloy parts had better strength-to-weight ratios than carbon? I didn't think they'd turn...

However, I agree, the lust factor is through the roof.
Well, it looks like most of it is made out of cold forged parts. Only the cage is carbon. My old 2004 XTR derailleur's cage looks like it's cut from plate metal anyway, but I may be wrong.

Since seeing this thread I took a look at my derailleur and it does extend beyond the QR nut quite a bit. In fact it sticks out more than anything on the bike other than the pedal. It's taken one or two firm smacks and has scratches but is still working fine. I even had to replace a bent hanger from a fall. I guess it would be nice to have it tucked in more.

Ronnie.
 
#4 ·
Well I remember reading it somewhere, I think its from cyclingnews, where a Shimano rep states that they still stand beside their claims that a cold forged alloy part is stronger but they say a properly designed carbon part could be just as strong and yet lighter.
 
#5 ·
Im ... neither Shimano nor SRAM fan. I just buy whichever is better.
But the Shadow derailleur certainly holds its advantage over SRAM due to its less protrusion profile, and Horst Link friendly. Also, Shimano seems to have better QA than SRAM, more consistent & rounded products
OTOH, the Shadow derailleur is still yet to be tested.

The direct cabling is Shimano's answer to SRAM. The carbon cage, too (it is more of marketing move rather than function; that's my take)

In looks category alone, I still prefer SRAM X.0. More cyborg-like.
 
#6 ·
Any news on the rest of the group?

The new XTR Shadow RD is looking good. I always prefered Shimano over SRAM, although the SRAM RDs and thumbshifters seem to work fine. But now I can see that Shimano really decided to go over some of the flaws that their RDs had.

But anyone has any news on the rest of the group? I heard some people speculating about a carbon crankset and new Servowave carbon levers for 2008. But I haven't seen nothing yet. Does anyone know about that?
 
#7 ·
I know that the servowave levers will make its way to 08 XTR, not sure bout the carbon cranksets yet, so far they have tested it on their Road models, not sure bout mountain though. Im not sure the servowave uses carbon levers also, havent heard any news about it
 
#8 ·
paneristi said:
Im ... neither Shimano nor SRAM fan. I just buy whichever is better.
But the Shadow derailleur certainly holds its advantage over SRAM due to its less protrusion profile, and Horst Link friendly. Also, Shimano seems to have better QA than SRAM, more consistent & rounded products
OTOH, the Shadow derailleur is still yet to be tested.

The direct cabling is Shimano's answer to SRAM. The carbon cage, too (it is more of marketing move rather than function; that's my take)

In looks category alone, I still prefer SRAM X.0. More cyborg-like.
Found a problem with the new Shadow rear derailluers. If you bent your hanger just the slightest, it throws the cable clamp/arm dircetly into the cassette......to the point where you gouge the hell out of the derailluer or it stops the cassette from spinning.:nono:
 
#11 ·
mtnbikej said:
Found a problem with the new Shadow rear derailluers. If you bent your hanger just the slightest, it throws the cable clamp/arm dircetly into the cassette......to the point where you gouge the hell out of the derailluer or it stops the cassette from spinning.:nono:
mmm... you would have to fold the hanger in pretty bad I guess (I guess over 45 degress bent, at which I suppose the cage would be touching the spokes first)... I'm interested on that because I am running an XT shadow... and the arm goes back and away as the RD moves "in"

 
#12 ·
Those new shadow derailleurs look great. I guess they could fold into the cassette, although their very design is to avoid being contacted in the first place so it should be much less likely to happen. Interested in whether they are bringing out any other changes apart from the derailleur. I'm loving my 07 XTR, very crisp shifting and a very stiff crank.
 
#13 ·
My first impression of the XT shadow was: Ugly.

The XTR is nice, though. The carbon cage looks so much better than the XO (XO 2008 is improverd). And the cableguide is is cool.

I ride a "normal" XTR, if the shadow works even better they clearly have outdone themselves!

Looking at the bottom most picture i thought: Wow! Don shorten your derailleur cable, shift to high gear and the cable end will make a cool racing sound in the spokes :)
 
#14 ·
Some more details on the Shadow:

We all know that Shimano have been holding out with the statement 'cold forged is stiffer, lighter & more durable'. I'd have to agree with durability in any real world situation...

The carbon fibre used in the cage is build with the same technology from their fishing area. Obviously being a little lighter and available in short, medium and long cage (unlike the other big S) but also a little more expensive.

All Shadow RD's don't stick out as much as conventional RD's- 12mm less in the lowest and highest gear position. So they'll be less prone to ripping off when passing rocks and what not.

Otherwise XTR will remain the same for 2008.
 
#16 ·
TNT-Spot said:
Guys! Does the New 2008 XTR Shadow Rear Der. already shift and feel like SRAM X.O?
Is it now 1:1 Actuation Ratio? Im currently running 2007 XTR but honestly, prefers the feeling of SRAM X.O when i tried it on a friends bike.

Thanks!
Shimano will still be using 2:1 actuation ratio. So no, it wont feel like Sram.
 
#20 ·
wheelhot said:
if Im not mistaken, XTR uses harder springs so its better
I dunno man. I just built up an XTR race bike, I've been a Shimano many since I was a kid. Tried a mates X9, I want SRAM on my next bike! Personally, I reckon X9 shifts better than XTR. Much snappier and faster to shift.
 
#22 ·
I rode it!

So I rode the 2008 XTR Shadow at a Specialized Demo this past weekend. As well, I rode the 2008 SRAM XO as well for comparison on the same bikes. Pretty perfect huh?

Anyway, being a SRAM fan, I test rode the XO first. The 08 long cage RD feels much snappier than the current XO long cage. Shifting under load was easy in both directions, with no skip under technical sections.

Now it was time to ride the XTR. My last experience on my friends bike with 07 XTR was not the best, so I wasn't expecting the best. HOWEVER, I was wrong.

The thing looks like a work of art; looks clear than XO with the much lower profile. For the record, this was the 2008 S-Works Epic... full XTR. Assuming that nothing has changed, the XTR kit will remain the same for 2008. The bike I had did not have the servo-wave levers for the brakes, just the normal M970 levers. The Specialized guys did not give any further information about the 2008 kit when I asked, but the bike I rode will be the product model. So servo-wave levers for XTR doesn't look like its happening... yet.

Anywho, back to the ride report. The shifting was spot on. I couldn't believe it. You wouldn't know it was Shimano unless you looked down. The shifters, cassette, chain and cranks were all the same as well. Underload, the shifting was as fast as SRAM's. I would say Shimano did an outstanding job with making the spring stronger. Very quiet, very smooth... I wasn't afraid to push down the lever when I was crankin' up hills.

In technical sections, the RD did not miss a shift. I purposely shifted in poor sections, you know, stuff you wouldn't normally shift in, and it held up perfect. The spring for the cage is much strong, and up to par with SRAM's. As well, I know this sounds stupid, but have the RD tucked away under the cassette in techy stuff made me feel a lot better. There's this rock that is at a perfect height to small RD's. I've knocked off just about everything, SRAM and Shimano. Only difference is Shimano would break off, and SRAM would bend the hanger. Either way, you're screwed.

Shifting to higher gears was the major test. I knew SRAM was quick and snappy, and wasn't expecting the same. After a few clicks and nasty gear changes, the RD did not feel as quick as I would have hoped. It was spot on, don't get me wrong, but after riding XO... it wasn't as fast. It was accurate and didn't skip once, and was quiet in the process. However, it wasn't as fast-feeling as SRAM.

Bottom line: Shimano did a great job. Naturally, not having 1:1 is a disadvantage, and I'm sure Shimano knows that. The lower profile is nice, also making the RD lighter than XO. Shimano did a great job.

Sorry if the report is lame, or doesn't make any sense. It's midnight, and I figured I'd chime in on a thread I started. :rolleyes: Will I go Shimano on my race bike? We'll see.

Later
 
#24 ·
wheelhot said:
Thats a good report :D, not biased and well written :D. Good Job! and im jealous of you. What is your race bike? Epic?
Thanks! The Epic was not my race bike, it was just one of the many offerings from Specialized at the Demo. If case you were wondering, my race bike is a Scott Scale... XO RD and Grip shift:thumbsup:
 
#25 ·
I am a fan of both shimano and sram. It has been interesting watching the two battle it out over the past couple years. 06 clearly went to sram, 07 prabably did as well, but at least shimano came at the problem a bit harder... and Now, I think shimano may have tied if not out-done SRAM this comming year...2008. Their will always be the battle of hear-say, so lets Wait and see what the vast majority of the bike manufacturors spec their high-end bikes with, and we'll see who's pulling ahead for 08; too soon to tell right now.

I'm glad shimano created their shadow tech for this XTR because MAN! that thing is gutted like no other! There's practically nothing to it.. One good smack by anyting and it would be done for sure.

My 07 XTR is forever F***;d up due to a rock that ended up not bending the cage, but bent the main spring cage,( the X crossed top peace may look cool, but its weaker than S***) and now the derailleur still shifts, but its crooked, and the chain eats the pulleys like nothing when you shift it low.

Was going to get another 07, but now, definately not BECAUSE:thanks to all of you, I am now enliten'd Thank everyone for your insite. I will most likely get the XT Shadow; not a big fan of carbon.. It might argumentatively be the strongest thing to hit the market yet, but its impact resistance SUCKS! and when it fails, MAN IT FAILS! Like no other. I honestly think its a step in the WRONG direction for Shimano... I've watched a lot of people completely F**K up their drive train with srams Black box carbon, so I hope shadow tech. will aid shimano with theirs
 
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