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  1. #1
    Big Dirty
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    Ty Kady...upgrade, bro.

    This dude CRUSHES every Cat 1 race in Cali. The Sho -Air honch and former pro MX racer needs to get that Pro upgrade lest he begin to look like a bagger. Winning is great and all, but when you do it every weekend against top cat 1 talent (Fontana, Santa Ynez, Sea Otter...) it means you need to nut up and race with the big boys.
    Thoughts? Feelings?

  2. #2
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    The dude is still young.. just looked at usa cycling results The dude would definitely qualify as a sandbagger..

  3. #3
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    I talked with him a little bit after SOC. He just has no desire to be pro, works 50hrs a week, etc. He knows people think he's a bagger, but what's he supposed to do if he doesn't want to race pro? There's not much reward in it, and your license costs double. And besides, with running the Sho-Air team and such, he's more "Pro" than a lot of licensed pros so from a sponsorship and schwag standpoint there's no motivation for him. I'm just happy I beat his time finally at SOC! :-D
    Thank you Lord for strength, endurance, and salvation.

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  4. #4
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    Hmm. My thought would be if i won every race than what would be the Motivation.. I guess every body has there own motivations. As far as a pro license costing double maybe he should ask Sho-Air for a raise(:

  5. #5
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    I think he is the definition of sandbagger. He won almost every race in 2008 as a semipro and downgraded to CAT 1 with the reorganization. He is still young and so doesn't have that as an excuse (I totally understand where Johnny 'O is coming from). Come on, the extra 60 bucks to race pro is about what it costs to do one kenda cup race, so don't give me that. Sure he doesn't want to move up because he won't win all the time anymore, that is just a selfish attitude. His racing CAT 1 doesn't really affect me as I'm in a different class, but I just loose respect for the guy the longer he does it.

    Hey I could go get some "W"'s in CAT 2, I mean, I work full time, have 2 kids, and can only ride 7-10 hours a week, and have a blister on my toe that makes my foot hurt sometimes. Is that Cool??

  6. #6
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    i was at santa ynez when he came into the his 3rd lap a full 4 minutes ahead of gerry cody. but it sure is a relative topic, if ty wasnt there then would gerry be a sandbagger? he has been coming in second place this year (minus sea otter becuase he race 2 previous races that very day before the xc race but he sitll got 10th, lol) and down the line.

    and there are so many levels of pro's. he would definetly be at the bottom of the pro level. i mean, even Many Prado was lapped at the short track at sea otter.

    so i understand him not wanting to go pro just to finish at the back everytime he races.

    playing devil's advocate here, but is this a call to cat 1 guys to step it up? i know gerry cody sees it as a challenge to get faster and eventually beat ty.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobiesmith
    playing devil's advocate here, but is this a call to cat 1 guys to step it up? i know gerry cody sees it as a challenge to get faster and eventually beat ty.
    exactly.
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  8. #8
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    There is no black and white line, I agree. Who-ever is winning is going to be called a sandbagger until you get into the older classes like mine. BUT when you have been winning for years, by large margins, over others that have gone on to be pro then I think its time to sack up. Yeah Manny gets lapped at the short track, he's a distance guy, who HAS upgraded and wins some other pretty big races.

    hobiesmith-
    "so i understand him not wanting to go pro just to finish at the back everytime he races"

    I think this is the definition of sand bagging, is it not? Not upgrading when you more than meet all the requirements just because it doesn't suit your own agenda?

    OR
    "i know gerry cody sees it as a challenge to get faster and eventually beat ty."
    I truly respect that attitude but could we change this too
    i know TY CADY sees it as a challenge to get faster and eventually beat SID.

    That's how he gets my respect...

    Just playing devil's advocate here

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
    There is no black and white line, I agree. Who-ever is winning is going to be called a sandbagger until you get into the older classes like mine. BUT when you have been winning for years, by large margins, over others that have gone on to be pro then I think its time to sack up. Yeah Manny gets lapped at the short track, he's a distance guy, who HAS upgraded and wins some other pretty big races.

    hobiesmith-
    "so i understand him not wanting to go pro just to finish at the back everytime he races"

    I think this is the definition of sand bagging, is it not? Not upgrading when you more than meet all the requirements just because it doesn't suit your own agenda?

    OR
    "i know gerry cody sees it as a challenge to get faster and eventually beat ty."
    I truly respect that attitude but could we change this too
    i know TY CADY sees it as a challenge to get faster and eventually beat SID.

    That's how he gets my respect...

    Just playing devil's advocate here
    ya absolutely. why isnt ty chasing max and sid and todd. and so forth. no doubt its a arugment with no clear answer. i am personal friends with nate whitman who is a back of the pack pro, and your right, that his is goal, to get as fast as tinker and then some. he got 64th out of 117 in sea otter and was excited about it. he has a great attitude. i know that ty is as strong or stronger than nate if you look at the their lap times. maybe a good rule of thumb is, if your lap times are middle of the pack that's in front of you, then maybe its time to move up.

    maybe one day i will see cat 2, but even being a newbie my conscienceness has me looking at my times to make sure that i am not sandbaggin cat 3. sometimes i feel like it when at sea otter i line up with some dudes who have huge backpacks on and baggy shorts and platform pedals, but then the other half had on racing kits and i didnt come close to podium so oh well

  10. #10
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    There haven't been many races were the pro's a Cat 1's do the same course so Santa Ynez is the only recent comparison. His time of 1:59 would have been 13th and with other fast guys to ride with I'm sure he could have dropped that by a couple of minutes to be in the top ten. That race did have a weaker pro field however.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillhardtailing
    There haven't been many races were the pro's a Cat 1's do the same course so Santa Ynez is the only recent comparison. His time of 1:59 would have been 13th and with other fast guys to ride with I'm sure he could have dropped that by a couple of minutes to be in the top ten. That race did have a weaker pro field however.
    The pro and Cat 1 races were on different days as well. We (Cat 1's) had a lot stronger wind to deal with on those ridge tops than the pros, so there's another factor to consider.
    Thank you Lord for strength, endurance, and salvation.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clintox50
    The pro and Cat 1 races were on different days as well. We (Cat 1's) had a lot stronger wind to deal with on those ridge tops than the pros, so there's another factor to consider.
    thats no joke. i almost got blown down the hill by that wind on top of the wall

    the day the pros raced it was beautiful

  13. #13
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    I was there the day the pros raced and it was perfect until the last lap when a steady breeze picked up.

    The next day when Cat 1s went it was about as windy a day as you can find in this area. I am sure it made a HUGE difference in times.
    Originally Posted by XC62701
    Agreed...make it longer. I want to know death is an option

  14. #14
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    It's ben many years since I raced, so maybe I'm talking out my a$$, but it used to be that the top "non-pro" category raced the same course as the pros, and in some cases even started with them. Looking at the results, and seeing that the Cat 1 Men winning time was 2:36, and that the Pro Men winning time was 1:23 is to me, either a mis-print, timing error or a boggling blunder on the course director's choice of routes / # of laps for the classes. If not, then there needs to be some class in between Cat 1 and Pro! I remember the "Expert/Elite" class winner often finishing Top 20 and about 10 - 15 min behind the Pro winner over a 30-mile course. Here we see the Pro time at nearly 1/2 the Cat 1 time. Is the disparity that great these days?

    There needs to be a step that encourages the fastest Cat 1 to see a result that is realistically close enough to the "contenders" in the class above to make the move and step up. If I was winning at the "top class" of the amateur class, and was so far off the Pro times that there was no way I could see myself making the top 20% of that class, I would avoid paying higher fees to race as well. Having the top amateur racers ride the same course as the pros lets them at least compare effort over distance and make an educated decision to move up. It used to be that moving up and racing/contending in the next class was status enough to make you want to advance.
    R.I.P. Corky 10/97-4/09
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobiesmith
    playing devil's advocate here, but is this a call to cat 1 guys to step it up? i know gerry cody sees it as a challenge to get faster and eventually beat ty.
    A call to Cat 1 guys to step it up?

    I rode my heart out at SOC. I've been on a bike every chance I get, my mountain bike, my road bike, or my commuter. Mostly its been the commuter, but my commute isn't one to scoff at. I've improved my diet and nutrition over the last year and arrived at SOC 15 pounds leaner than last year. I am 6' tall and raced at 160 pounds this year, so I worked hard and ate right so I would be leaner but still strong for this year. Not trying to brag, just demonstrating that I put in an honest effort to improve my race performance.

    And I am not complaining about my race results, or that I was only able to stay on Ty's wheel for a good chunk of the first lap, I am actually pretty stoked about both now knowing the caliber of rider I was racing against. So don't come down on other cat 1 riders saying we need to step it up. I think I did that over the last year, and my results prove that and I know there are others that did too.

    Sure there may be a few sandbaggers in Cat 1, I don't know who they are or really care. There are some in every category. As for Cat 1 though, I think the reclassification of the categories is more to blame. When you have pro level riders who have no incentive to race pro and no class to fit that rider, then you get very strong riders in a class that perhaps is a bit beneath their level.

    So I will continue to train hard and hope that I can eventually eek out a first place finish in my age group, then go for an overall first place finish. Until then I will keep chasing Ty's wheel as a bench mark of performance and hold nothing against him. I talked to him after the XC race at SOC as we were sorting out the race results (turns out those chips don't always work), and he seemed like a really cool guy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATBScott
    ...it used to be that the top "non-pro" category raced the same course as the pros, and in some cases even started with them. Looking at the results, and seeing that the Cat 1 Men winning time was 2:36, and that the Pro Men winning time was 1:23 is to me, either a mis-print, timing error or a boggling blunder on the course director's choice of routes / # of laps for the classes.
    The SOC CAT 1 and Pro courses were extremely different. From what I hear, they've been trying to make the Pro race more spectator friendly. Therefore they rode a lap course that regularly brought them through the race track and the CAT classes rode the normal 19 mile loop. Hence the vast difference in times.

  17. #17
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    I finish near the mid to back of Cat 1 myself, but see that I would be a top 5 Cat 2 regularly. So I don't see any reward for being in Cat 2, plus I won my out several years ago and just can't bring myself to move back down. Ok, it's pride, but whatever. I feel racing against faster competition makes us better, seems like pretty basic logic.

    If this guy wants to bag it then so be it, he is putting a cap on his own talent and potential. I don't personally need W's to feel satisfaction and accomplishment, but that's me. I don't know this guy personally, but we all have our own agendas and goals for racing. His may be that W's make him feel good, as they should. For me, racing against faster riders makes me feel good and gives me a sense of accomplishment. I don't buy the job/family thing, the fact of the matter is a majority of the Pro class riders also have full time jobs and families too!
    Honestly, I'm on the fence with this guy, moving up to Pro is a reality check he may not be ready for mentally. My guess is he knows this and Cat 1 glory ain't so bad.

    Thanks for letting me add my nickel.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkerpeter
    The SOC CAT 1 and Pro courses were extremely different. From what I hear, they've been trying to make the Pro race more spectator friendly. Therefore they rode a lap course that regularly brought them through the race track and the CAT classes rode the normal 19 mile loop. Hence the vast difference in times.
    That makes some sense of the times - but overall doesn't make sense from the standpoint of the racers - at least IMO... The Pro races should be at least as long and hard as the CAT 1 race. Even if it is a different course, the distance and amount of climbing, singletrack, etc... should be as much or more than the CAT 1 riders navigate. One of the things about races like the Sea Otter, Whiskeytown, etc... is that the long course that "gets you out there" still feels like old-time MTB racing. The shorter, multi-lap courses don't really have the same feel. I didn't like them and stopped racing years ago, partly because of the change to the format. All that said, it is difficult to put on a long, open-country race, accessing participants involved in bad crashes, and even enforcing the route when there is a maze of trails like Fort Ord offers. Long races aren't spectator-friendly, and people showing up make for more potential income for the race promoters if they have concessions, etc... - so I can see where they want that.

    Perhaps a class can be created for CAT 1 racers who have had some level of success in the class, but don't want to go Pro, or want to "test the waters" a bit. Maybe the same or a few dollars higher entry fee as CAT 1 - ride with the Pros, but do not participate in the prize money for the Pro class. Maybe a qualification such as, "3 or more podium placings in the last season", or "5 or more top-ten" placings will give you the option to enter the class. You are only required to stay there if you podium - if not you can move down to CAT 1 again with no penalty. It might be a nice way for someone who thinks they can compete see how much more (if any) they need to race as a Pro. Maybe dredge up that old "Pro-Am/Elite" category, and have it's own placings apart from the Pro and CAT 1 classes. It doesn't even need to be at every race, but the big events with big class participation would be a great place to let these fast guys race against the Pros, but still have a chance to win their class. Just my .02
    R.I.P. Corky 10/97-4/09
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATBScott
    Perhaps a class can be created for CAT 1 racers who have had some level of success in the class, but don't want to go Pro, or want to "test the waters" a bit.
    That sounds like the Semi-pro class, that was just eliminated last year.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
    That sounds like the Semi-pro class, that was just eliminated last year.

    Yup. And it might have been a mistake to eliminate that class from the way it sounds.

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    Pro racers pee in a cup from time to time.
    Last edited by DirtJunkie12; 03-28-2012 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Misspelling

  22. #22
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    USA Cycling

    Quote Originally Posted by addctd2adrnlne View Post
    Yup. And it might have been a mistake to eliminate that class from the way it sounds.
    #1 His case highlights USAC's mis-management of the sport. I would argue USAC is trying to discourage a domestic Professional economy and the elimination of semi-pro was another attempt to keep racers impoverished until they reach the UCI's global show. In countries where cycling is flourishing they have a "pro without contract" category and award National titles for it. This keeps the pool of talent deep. That is something USAC is not interested in creating.

    #2 I don't really care for sandbaggers in any category. The guy should ride pro. He would likely get clobbered at National events. For local/regional events though, he'll do just fine. I get why he's where he is, but I think it just discourages regional participation. This is definitely not a money issue.

    USAC has a bigger role in his decision than anything else.

  23. #23
    Don't be a sheep
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    Ill add to this. At big bear last year as were heading into the singletrack he (ty kady) passes me then over shoots the trail and blocks it. He turns around and starts yelling at me like its my fault to which I responded "phuck off". Sandbagger and dlck.
    "Do not touch the trim"

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    After winning all 3 national titles last year (STXC, XC, and Marathon) I figured that he would finally upgrade. Well, after looking at the results from the Mellow Johnny's race, it appears that he did move up, but only into a different age group in CAT1...

    Seriously Ty, upgrade to Pro and challenge yourself! Winning every race you enter doesn't help you reach your potential, impress anyone, or earn the respect of your peers.

  25. #25
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    I race against Ty each weekend. Everyone is just battling for 2nd, 3rd etc now.. But wait...2nd and 3rd usually go to guys who got podium finishes at nationals too...argh!

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