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  1. #1
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    Sea Otter Sandbaggers

    I was just checking results from last year and this guy won Cat 3, 40 - 44 and had a better time than the winner of the Cat 2, 40 - 44.

    We should call out all of these sandbaggers.
    Last edited by surfstar1; 08-17-2010 at 01:16 PM.

  2. #2
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    After having looked at the results for cat 2 and 3, almost all of the podium winners in Cat 3 would have been podium winners in their respective cat 2 class. What a joke these peopls are.

    Can't the cycling governing body govern this type of ******ry?

  3. #3
    I need a new name
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    It happens at every race you go to. Go to a USAC sanctioned race and you'll get beat by a guy that races twice a year and doesn't earn the points to move up. Go to an unsanctioned race and you'll get beat by some guy that thinks winning sport by 10 minutes is cooler than finishing mid-pack in expert. Any racing you do has this problem.
    i ride bikes

  4. #4
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    I raced Jetski's (Standups) for 10 years. You have the same things happen.

    There are those rare occassions when you got a racer who is just progressing really fast and before you are a quarter of the way though the season they are absolutly smoking everybody, even people in the class above them. Hopefully those like that step up.

    There was one kid that I was always racing against back in 2004 that was really fast, I ran Novice Ski and this kid was really fast. I did not see him over the next few years, He pops back up once or twice in 2006 and then again I see him at the Nationals in 2008 still racing in the Novice Class. I still keep up with it but have not raced in 2 years, I know last year he was still racing in Novice. That kid is a sandbagger.
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  5. #5
    Hmmmmm
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    How do you figure it's "sandbagging"?
    If I entered my first local race I'd have to enter sport or a beginner class, and yet at the age of 46, I'm faster than some of the younger people that show up and race in faster classes of racing.
    For me that would be in Super D.
    I'm saying this, because some of them might be getting "pigeon holed". IE, it might be the only class they fit into, based on the classification system used.

    Eric.
    "I thought of that while riding my bike."
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  6. #6
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    Sandbagging is when you race in a class well below your level... Period...

    Sign up for the class where you fell your level of riding is equal to.

    If an average lap is 45 minutes for a beginner/novice and you do it at 30 minutes and can kick out 2 or 3 laps around the same time then your not a beginner.
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  7. #7
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    This happens all the time in the Texas TMBRA series. They come in within the top three in the Cat2 group at the beginning of the year and later avoid placing high or racing at all when they see they are not going to win the championship jersey. Their times are not even in the ballbark of other Cat2s. I was happy to go to Cat1 on my third season. Got my rear kicked at first (a great time I may add), but since then I've moved slowly up in the top ten. Sandbaggers are often clueless how silly they look on the podium, year after year after year...

  8. #8
    Old school BMXer
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    It also sounds like there are a few people who are bitter because they can't be the fastest beginner because there are faster people in the class.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar
    How do you figure it's "sandbagging"?
    If I entered my first local race I'd have to enter sport or a beginner class, and yet at the age of 46, I'm faster than some of the younger people that show up and race in faster classes of racing.
    For me that would be in Super D.
    I'm saying this, because some of them might be getting "pigeon holed". IE, it might be the only class they fit into, based on the classification system used.

    Eric.
    Partly there is a flaw in the USAC points system. Someone such as yourself would have to enter the beginner class if my memory is correct. I haven't done a USAC mountain bike race since I was a beginner. That isn't your fault. Now if you went to an unsanctioned race where you could enter the sport or expert yet entered beginner, thats where the problem is. Personally, I'm hoping to cat up next year out (road racing).
    i ride bikes

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillbilly_hank
    Partly there is a flaw in the USAC points system. Someone such as yourself would have to enter the beginner class if my memory is correct. I haven't done a USAC mountain bike race since I was a beginner. That isn't your fault. Now if you went to an unsanctioned race where you could enter the sport or expert yet entered beginner, thats where the problem is. Personally, I'm hoping to cat up next year out (road racing).
    I believe only road racing requires people to start at the lowest level. In mountain biking anyone can choose to race cat 2 and I believe it's very easy to petition to race cat 1 (not sure a petition is even necessary). One problem is people may not race cat 1 on a temporary license. So fast guys who only want to race once or twice a year and don't want to buy a yearly license must race cat 2. I'd say they're still sandbagging, but there is a reason behind it.

  11. #11
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    I think the cat 2 vs cat 3 classes have different courses so if cat 2 has to do 30 miles instead of 20, it would make sense that the cat 3 time is faster.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by scaryfast
    I think the cat 2 vs cat 3 classes have different courses so if cat 2 has to do 30 miles instead of 20, it would make sense that the cat 3 time is faster.
    I believe they only dramatically shortened the course for Cat 3 vs Cat 2 this year.
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  13. #13
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    I sandbag the pros. Wait.. On a serious note, every time I race SOC, I witness some of the most ridiculous sandbagging. I don't get it. I would rather be midpack cat 1 than standing on a podium representing a cat I don't belong in.

  14. #14
    JDM
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    It would be nice if everyone raced the same distance. Then if you really care you can ignore you place within Cat and just pay attention to your place overall.

  15. #15
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    Cat 1 License

    I race Cat 1 and have friends who do too. Some of those friends are racing Cat 2 this year because you are not allowed to race Cat 1 on a one day license.

    The full year license will add $75+ to your race entry fee. Not worth it if you only do one race per year.

    My $.02

  16. #16
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    Quote Originally Posted by edimm
    I race Cat 1 and have friends who do too. Some of those friends are racing Cat 2 this year because you are not allowed to race Cat 1 on a one day license.

    The full year license will add $75+ to your race entry fee. Not worth it if you only do one race per year.

    My $.02

    Cat 1's who only race once a year? Wow. I wish I was that gifted!

    Also, JDM makes a good point, but some Cat 3's would probably struggle with the Cat 1 distances perhaps..

  17. #17
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    I didn't know you could race down a category? Once you upgrade, I thought you were locked in to that category, hmmm, what do I know

    I do know that in the Cat2 this year, they have drasticaly increased everyone's chance of getting a podium. They have narrowed down the age-groups, for instance, instead of the traditional 40-44, they have now created the 40-42 age group. This allows for many more medals awarded. I don't think they did that for Cat1 though.

    I am heading over to the course this weekend to check it out. Will bring my Garmin too!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk
    I would rather be midpack cat 1 than standing on a podium representing a cat I don't belong in.
    Amen brother.

    Q

  19. #19
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    I keep hearing all this talk of sandbagging going on, and that I might be accused of it. I have NEVER raced before. Not once. I am signed up for the Cat 3 race at Sea Otter for the Cross-Country race and already people are warning me that if I win I will be labeled a “sandbagger”. Is this what the winners in Cat 3 always get to hear or something??? This will be the first race I have ever participated in. Should I purposely lose my first-ever race if there is a snowball’s chance in hell that I might be a semi-decent rider, or should I not give a rat’s ass what other people think??? I am confused now. I just turned 40 last year, had smoked cigarettes for 20 years (quit in 2006), and never really got serious about cycling until I started to commute to/from work back in the winter of 2007, otherwise my only “training” is just riding hard up the hills on my 47.8 pound mountain bike almost every day. Am I supposed to quit while I am ahead??? What gives?
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  20. #20
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    Leo, we'll find out this weekend what cat you belong in, won't we.
    I"ll be at NVDC in Cat3. I"m kinda the opposite of you... been racing for about 3-4 years now but never really ride enough or train enough to do anything better than the bottom 10-15% of Cat2. However, I do have race experience and course knowledge, so that comes in handy.

    Don't worry about the sandbagging label. If people start heckling you on the podium, you'll quickly move up to avoid the embarrassment.

  21. #21
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    The top 3 CAT II will be Pros. Happens every year.

    I half blame USA cycling because you cant get a one day licence for CAT I and you have to apply to move from CAT II to CAT I.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker
    I keep hearing all this talk of sandbagging going on, and that I might be accused of it. I have NEVER raced before. Not once. I am signed up for the Cat 3 race at Sea Otter for the Cross-Country race and already people are warning me that if I win I will be labeled a “sandbagger”. Is this what the winners in Cat 3 always get to hear or something??? This will be the first race I have ever participated in. Should I purposely lose my first-ever race if there is a snowball’s chance in hell that I might be a semi-decent rider, or should I not give a rat’s ass what other people think??? I am confused now. I just turned 40 last year, had smoked cigarettes for 20 years (quit in 2006), and never really got serious about cycling until I started to commute to/from work back in the winter of 2007, otherwise my only “training” is just riding hard up the hills on my 47.8 pound mountain bike almost every day. Am I supposed to quit while I am ahead??? What gives?
    You will be fine as a Cat 3 for this one. Loads of people for Otter. When you find yourself passing too many slow riders then you will know it's time to move up to Cat 2. If you are however tried and convicted of sandbagging.....I will no longer hire you / bribe you with coffee cards as a strava data collector on my rides !
    You became weak loafing around in that big girly gear! -Soares

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk
    Cat 1's who only race once a year? Wow. I wish I was that gifted!

    Also, JDM makes a good point, but some Cat 3's would probably struggle with the Cat 1 distances perhaps..
    Same situation here. We race up in Oregon, cat 1, where most races a usac license is not required. Why spend an extra $75 or whatever it is just for 1 race? SOC is expensive to begin with, not to mention our travel expenses.
    Thus, Cat II

  24. #24
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    I am asking without any offense meant and I don't know how to ask "do you have to race?" without being rude; but I assume passing the riders of a lower category shouldn't be as fun as racing in your category, right?

    There must be other reasons that I am missing here. (I am a person who races once a year, only for fun, and finish consistently at the bottom 20% of Cat 2 SS.) For example, there may be a requirement of having to race a certain number of races a year. Is that it?

    Thank you,
    Ali

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal
    You will be fine as a Cat 3 for this one. Loads of people for Otter. When you find yourself passing too many slow riders then you will know it's time to move up to Cat 2. If you are however tried and convicted of sandbagging.....I will no longer hire you / bribe you with coffee cards as a strava data collector on my rides !
    Actually… http://web2.puc.edu/Pioneers/NVDC/11%20results.htm

    Yes, I placed FIRST overall in Category 3 men’s at the Napa Valley Dirt Classic 2011… within all age groups (I even passed up a substantial number of the Cat 2s within the 35-44 range). So, I need to find out (sooner than later) from the Sea Otter people if I can change from Category 3 to Category 2… otherwise I will have to purposely ride my heavy-ass 47+ pound Surly 1x1 3" wide tire 32x20 singlespeed bike to make up for any “sandbagging” in Category 3. The second place finisher within my category (35-44) was six minutes behind me, so that equates to Category 2 times, methinks. I want to be fair to everyone, yes, I was SIX minutes quicker, that seems a bit unreasonable.

    Yes, this race felt too easy, I feel a bit of guilt, almost shame… yet it was my FIRST RACE EVER, so I think I need to just upgrade to Cat 2 and move on.
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