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  1. #101
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    First of all congrats on a great weekend at Sea Otter.

    I would however differ with your opinion that USAC prevents sandbagging in road races. In fact they make sandbaging almost manditory in Cat 5. I'm a successful 50+ Cat XC racer who likes to do one or two road races a year, ussually at Sea Otter. The Cat 5 races there are packed with high wattage output Cat 1 XC racers, giving the true Cat 5's no chance to compete. I'd love to move up, but can because of USAC upgrade rules; there's no way I'll likely ever do 10 races in a year.

  2. #102
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    Thanks. I totally agree that there are accomplished MTB racers who are inexperienced on the roads, and being forced to race mass starts in Cat 5 can be frustrating for them. On the other side of the coin, it's not really sandbagging in Cat 5 as there are no prizes or points. Cat 5 is based on experience only. And since almost everyone is forced to go through Cat 5 (and everyone gets upgraded after 10 races), it's not intentional sandbagging.

    The good news is that for a guy like you, there are often two races you can do in a day: Cat 5 and 35+/45+ Cat 5. And you would not have to finish the ten races in a year. You can spread them out over a few years. Finally, the regional coordinator has the authority to grant upgrades on other experience. They are fully capable of giving a Cat 1 trackie Cat 2 status on the roads.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by dseybert View Post
    I also raced cat 3 XC 30-34. It was my first time ever racing. I did some demo rides on Friday and a ride in SC on Saturday. I had never raced before and didn't know how I would feel after 2 days of riding, so I didn't think cat 2 was appropriate. After finishing 3rd I now know I should have been in cat 2 and will be next time.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    My good friend finished just behind you. How did the start of the race (on the racetrack) go?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    Thanks. I totally agree that there are accomplished MTB racers who are inexperienced on the roads, and being forced to race mass starts in Cat 5 can be frustrating for them. On the other side of the coin, it's not really sandbagging in Cat 5 as there are no prizes or points. Cat 5 is based on experience only. And since almost everyone is forced to go through Cat 5 (and everyone gets upgraded after 10 races), it's not intentional sandbagging.

    The good news is that for a guy like you, there are often two races you can do in a day: Cat 5 and 35+/45+ Cat 5. And you would not have to finish the ten races in a year. You can spread them out over a few years. Finally, the regional coordinator has the authority to grant upgrades on other experience. They are fully capable of giving a Cat 1 trackie Cat 2 status on the roads.
    There's something else with Cat 5 on the roads. USAC and most regional coordinators don't care if you're fast. Nobody cares who wins the Cat 5 races. In Cat 5, it's all about learning to race with a group and being safe. Of course there are accomplished triathletes/XC racers who race from 4 to 2 in a few months. But are they sandbagging or just rising through the ranks?

  5. #105
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    Re: Sea Otter Sandbaggers

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    How did the start of the race (on the racetrack) go?
    Pretty good. I didn't know how hard to start, but I had 5-10 guys in front of me when we hit the dirt. The rest of my passing was done on the climbs.

    Here's my 1hour and 22 min race condensed to just over 10 minutes:

    Sea Otter 2013 - YouTube

    Enjoy.

  6. #106
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    Even the most egregious sandbagger can't ruin a race for you if you're having fun, right?
    Last edited by Blister Butt; 04-24-2013 at 12:26 AM.
    "You'll thank me when it's all said and done"

  7. #107
    arrogant sandbagger
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    get a life, stalker

  8. #108
    Levi Early
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    Quote Originally Posted by dseybert View Post
    Pretty good. I didn't know how hard to start, but I had 5-10 guys in front of me when we hit the dirt. The rest of my passing was done on the climbs.

    Here's my 1hour and 22 min race condensed to just over 10 minutes:

    Sea Otter 2013 - YouTube

    Enjoy.
    pretty cool to see myself in your video. I passed you at the 14 sec mark in your video then you passed me right back. I was on the orange salsa mukluk fat bike having way too much fun out there.

  9. #109
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    Nice.

    I saw a number of guys out there with fat bikes, including a guy racing cyclocross on a fat bike. Did you ride the mukluk in the CX race?

  10. #110
    Levi Early
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    Nice.

    I saw a number of guys out there with fat bikes, including a guy racing cyclocross on a fat bike. Did you ride the mukluk in the CX race?
    I just entered the xc, but next year I will probably enter the cx as well.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    Nice.

    I saw a number of guys out there with fat bikes, including a guy racing cyclocross on a fat bike. Did you ride the mukluk in the CX race?
    that was aaron bradford slumming it in the SS class with the fatbike. he won SS nationals a few years ago and tears up California for Team Rock Lobster.

  12. #112
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    In Cross Country people sandbaggin the Cat 3 is going to happen, my favorite "i didn't know.."... People Sandbaggin the Cat 2 are just people who dont want to race for 40 F-ing miles... People Sandbaggin the Cat 1 race need to get pee tests... Sea Otter should surprise everyone and pee test the top 5 in all top Cat's next year... simple test and its cheap. Look up Kabush's interview after he finished the Pro XC! he says it all...

    I hear you all... "its just a race for fun.." yah well, I spend a lot of money and train for about a year to race my MTB for 40 f-ing miles (and other races)... I didn't race this year and may not next (first time I have missed in 9 years). there are other races out there more professional.

    Q (bitter today)

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by jct View Post
    that was aaron bradford slumming it in the SS class with the fatbike. he won SS nationals a few years ago and tears up California for Team Rock Lobster.
    That name sounds familiar. I volunteer at CCCX races and think I've seen him out there.

    I was geared and started in the group behind him. I caught him on the hillside, he rolled past when I had my bike shouldered on a soft dirt chicane section, then I got past him for good the flat open section.

    It looked like he was having fun out there. Here's a picture: Cyclocross, 23rd Sea Otter Classic ? 20 April 2013 - Argentum Imago ? Still-in-Motion

    Props to him for not taking it too seriously.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by quicklaps View Post
    In Cross Country people sandbaggin the Cat 3 is going to happen, my favorite "i didn't know.."... People Sandbaggin the Cat 2 are just people who dont want to race for 40 F-ing miles... People Sandbaggin the Cat 1 race need to get pee tests... Sea Otter should surprise everyone and pee test the top 5 in all top Cat's next year... simple test and its cheap. Look up Kabush's interview after he finished the Pro XC! he says it all...

    I hear you all... "its just a race for fun.." yah well, I spend a lot of money and train for about a year to race my MTB for 40 f-ing miles (and other races)... I didn't race this year and may not next (first time I have missed in 9 years). there are other races out there more professional.

    Q (bitter today)
    Norcal tested 17 athletes with 17 negatives last season. In the wake of Armstrong that is not enough; NCNCA increased the budget and will test more athletes in 2013. I think this is a fine decision so long as it doesn't rob funding from other areas of cycling, like junior development.

    Budget is a real concern. You say that the tests are cheap. Others say it is cost-prohibitive. Another problem is the ineffectiveness of tests -- some drugs are undetectable and we all know that Armstrong passed hundreds of tests. If tests are ineffective and expensive then testing is a waste of resources.

    But then what do we do with a positive test for the ADHD drug Ritalin? Under USADA's rules an athlete without a TUE faces suspension even if the medications are legally prescribed. And the TUE process is lengthy and difficult. And what of recreational pot smokers who do not have prescriptions or TUEs? Or a downhill champion who smokes pot?

    Drug testing is a whole new can of worms.

    Ultimately I'm with you. If the costs were low enough I would petition for everyone to pee in the cup at least once or twice a year.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blister Butt View Post
    I have a buddy who had done this one particular race two or three years previously. This year he entered it in the Beginner category because some "medical" issue had kept him off the bike for six months and he "had gained a lot of weight" and was "more out of shape than than he had ever been before."

    What a tool.

    He got second place. The other sandbagger had beaten him by 30 seconds and the two of them beat the rest of the field by a couple of minutes.

    When I called him a tool after the race and ridiculed him in front of other people, he got really pissed. He told me I didn't understand. (Because the only race I've ever done in my life, I entered in Cat 3 and ended up finishing mid-pack, apparently).

    I told him that what I did understand is that he and his other Tool friend had cheated three true beginners from having a real competition and feeling good about getting on the podium in their first race.

    He said it would "motivate them to try harder next year," and therefore he had done a good thing.

    What a tool.

    What do you say to the rider who races Cat 3 2 yrs in a row and wins?
    He stole a result from true Cat 3s in a close race.
    Prior year winners moved on to Cat 2/Sport....
    I guess all is fair in love and war and sea otter.

  16. #116
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    If a guy wins Cat 3 Clydesdale two years in a row he should put down the fork.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    If a guy wins Cat 3 Clydesdale two years in a row he should put down the fork.
    If he puts the fork down, he wont be a Clydesdale ;-).
    But, I agree, they put a fork into being a Cat 3 the following year. As the old adage goes, if it comes too easy, it's probably not worth having.
    Cheers,
    Last edited by kiwijames; 04-24-2013 at 01:21 PM. Reason: syntax error

  18. #118
    arrogant sandbagger
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    I've earned all sorts of reputation in this thread!
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    If a guy wins Cat 3 Clydesdale two years in a row he should put down the fork.
    ^this comment has earned me negative reputation and an insult!



    Well, it's certainly been entertaining.

    lol

  19. #119
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    Just to be clear.. a sandbagger is not someone who ends up on the podium. These are guys with more talent. Simple.

    A sandbagger has numerous top 5 finishes (in whatever) category, yet do not cat-up. These guys are tools. Simple.

    For all of you calling folks "sandbaggers", I hope you did your research.

  20. #120
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    Yep, pretty clear on that.
    Or dropping down a cat/group for some hardware, just to add to the ones that don't Cat up.
    Urban Dictionary: sandbagger

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    I've earned all sorts of reputation in this thread!
    ^this comment has earned me negative reputation and an insult!



    Well, it's certainly been entertaining.

    lol
    Your comment was just a cheap shot at a group you think is less than. No, your arrogant look at me posts is what got you the neg rep. I started off thinking Blister Butt was the jerk in this thread but you quickly convinced me I was wrong. The funny thing is you have done an excellent job of making his point. So like I said in my neg rep, shut up.

    Don't worry about my feelings. I'm perfectly content with my weight and racing Clydesdale class.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froride1 View Post
    Your comment was just a cheap shot at a group you think is less than. No, your arrogant look at me posts is what got you the neg rep. I started off thinking Blister Butt was the jerk in this thread but you quickly convinced me I was wrong. The funny thing is you have done an excellent job of making his point. So like I said in my neg rep, shut up.

    Don't worry about my feelings. I'm perfectly content with my weight and racing Clydesdale class.
    The fact that you gave me negative rep and have repeatedly insulted me and told me to "shut up" says that your feelings are hurt. But you tell us that you're happy being heavy. I'll take your word for it.

    That aside, part of what you've said is true. I often assume that obese people would prefer a healthy body weight but cannot achieve it do to poor eating habits or lack of discipline. When I quit smoking I put on enough weight to race clydesdale. I can admit that I was unhappy with my weight. I was able to lose the weight not through rigorous exercise, but portion control. Someone told me to put down the fork and I listened.

  23. #123
    jct
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    That name sounds familiar. I volunteer at CCCX races and think I've seen him out there.

    I was geared and started in the group behind him. I caught him on the hillside, he rolled past when I had my bike shouldered on a soft dirt chicane section, then I got past him for good the flat open section.

    It looked like he was having fun out there. Here's a picture: Cyclocross, 23rd Sea Otter Classic ? 20 April 2013 - Argentum Imago ? Still-in-Motion

    Props to him for not taking it too seriously.
    i thought it was weird that they started the SS class before the Cat 3/4. maybe they thought all the SSers would be faster than the geared riders. or maybe they thought it'd be more fun to have the 3s try to pass up all the SSers...

  24. #124
    Is this thing on?
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    Lawyer and a roadie, explains a lot about how you see the world.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froride1 View Post
    Lawyer and a roadie, explains a lot about how you see the world.
    There's no need to get bent out of shape by my comment. From your USAC license I see that you've raced CCCX. I've volunteered in the score booth in the past and I'm often at the races. If you're at the August race I'll say hi. I think that once people meet in person--rather than online--they can actually have a normal interaction, rather than volley snarky comments or tell one another to "shut up" repeatedly. I do not think that a person can "know" another via the internet. That's why I don't take message boards seriously. It's a mistake to take this seriously. If we met in person you'd see that we're both normal human beings, only I'm 65lbs lighter. J/K

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