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  1. #76
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    Sandbaggers can rationalize anything

    I have a buddy who had done this one particular race two or three years previously. This year he entered it in the Beginner category because some "medical" issue had kept him off the bike for six months and he "had gained a lot of weight" and was "more out of shape than than he had ever been before."

    What a tool.

    He got second place. The other sandbagger had beaten him by 30 seconds and the two of them beat the rest of the field by a couple of minutes.

    When I called him a tool after the race and ridiculed him in front of other people, he got really pissed. He told me I didn't understand. (Because the only race I've ever done in my life, I entered in Cat 3 and ended up finishing mid-pack, apparently).

    I told him that what I did understand is that he and his other Tool friend had cheated three true beginners from having a real competition and feeling good about getting on the podium in their first race.

    He said it would "motivate them to try harder next year," and therefore he had done a good thing.

    What a tool.
    "You'll thank me when it's all said and done"

  2. #77
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    Yeah, but a lot of Pro's in non USA Cycling race CAT 2.

    One year I raced Sea Otter and I Googled 1st, 2nd and 3rd and they were all pros outside of USA Cycling.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
    Yeah, but a lot of Pro's in non USA Cycling race CAT 2.

    One year I raced Sea Otter and I Googled 1st, 2nd and 3rd and they were all pros outside of USA Cycling.
    Yep, I did the same thing back in both 2011 and 2012 and was shocked. Why do these “pros” act like douchebags??? I don’t understand the logic.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    Yep, I did the same thing back in both 2011 and 2012 and was shocked. Why do these “pros” act like douchebags??? I don’t understand the logic.
    You need to understand that the vast majority of pro bike racers are narcissists bordering on being true sociopaths. In other words, they have 10,000-pound glass egos, low self-esteem that drives competitive behavior, and a low-degree of empathy for other human beings (if they have any empathy at all). To them, winning a race—even if it means obliterating the local yokels by racing in lower categories due to some self-justified reasoning—becomes all important. In other words, there is no logic.
    "You'll thank me when it's all said and done"

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blister Butt View Post
    You need to understand that the vast majority of pro bike racers are narcissists bordering on being true sociopaths. In other words, they have 10,000-pound glass egos, low self-esteem that drives competitive behavior, and a low-degree of empathy for other human beings (if they have any empathy at all). To them, winning a race—even if it means obliterating the local yokels by racing in lower categories due to some self-justified reasoning—becomes all important. In other words, there is no logic.
    Jealous?

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
    Yeah, but a lot of Pro's in non USA Cycling race CAT 2.

    One year I raced Sea Otter and I Googled 1st, 2nd and 3rd and they were all pros outside of USA Cycling.
    I spoke with a few guys who blamed the lack of reciprocity between OBRA and USAC. Does this make sense or is MTB self-selecting?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    Jealous?
    Actually, not at all.
    "You'll thank me when it's all said and done"

  8. #83
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    Well, given your in-depth analysis into the psyche of people you've never met and the fact that as a non-racer you're unaffected by sandbaggers, how do you explain your angry rants?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    Well, given your in-depth analysis into the psyche of people you've never met and the fact that as a non-racer you're unaffected by sandbaggers, how do you explain your angry rants?
    I do know many of them and I don't think my post was angry, or at least it wasn't supposed to be.
    "You'll thank me when it's all said and done"

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blister Butt View Post
    I do know many of them and I don't think my post was angry, or at least it wasn't supposed to be.
    OK, let's pretend that you do know many of "the vast majority of pro racers" well enough to apply your insults and over the top dime store psychology, and let's substitute passionate for angry.

    Given that you don't even race, why are you so worked by sandbagging?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    Given that you don't even race, why are you so worked by sandbagging?
    I do race sometimes. Sometimes I even make the podium. I dislike sandbagging because it's unethical and cheats beginners or the joe-citizen category out of a positive racing experience.

    I guess I'm inclined to ask you why you like sandbagging?

    No need for you to answer, it's rhetorical.
    "You'll thank me when it's all said and done"

  12. #87
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    Oh you race? Earlier in the thread you said that you had only raced once and finished mid pack. It still doesn't really explain your rant. Since you claim to know so many pros personally, can you name three you've met personally who fit your description?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blister Butt View Post
    narcissists bordering on being true sociopaths. In other words, they have 10,000-pound glass egos, low self-esteem that drives competitive behavior, and a low-degree of empathy for other human beings (if they have any empathy at all).
    (Lance Armstrong doesn't count.)

    Thanks for your passive-aggressive rhetorical question. However, my question is not rhetorical. I'd like for you to back up what you said.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    Oh you race? Earlier in the thread you said that you had only raced once and finished mid pack. It still doesn't really explain your rant. Since you claim to know so many pros personally, can you name three you've met personally who fit your description? (Lance Armstrong doesn't count.)

    Thanks for your passive-aggressive rhetorical question. However, my question is not rhetorical. I'd like for you to back up what you said.
    Now who seems angry?

    Oh, and I guess if you find my question passive aggressive, I'd encourage you to answer it. I'd be interested to understand why you support sandbagging.
    "You'll thank me when it's all said and done"

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blister Butt View Post
    Now who seems angry?
    It's still you.
    Oh, and I guess if you find my question passive aggressive, I'd encourage you to answer it. I'd be interested to understand why you support sandbagging.
    There are a few ways for me to respond to this. First, it's unjustified to say that I support sandbagging or that I like it. I can point out that you're being ridiculous with your dime store psychology without taking an opposite position.

    Next, your angry rants (yes, the things you said are angry) about people you don't know, people racing bicycles, say a lot more about you than they do about the guys racing bicycles. Reread what you said in this thread. Or read it to someone who doesn't ride bikes and ask them what they think. But do it without telling them that you wrote the words. I bet you would feel embarrassed if you heard an honest response.

    Finally, I'll accept your non-answers and the fact that you have repeatedly tried to make this about me as your defeat. You painted yourself in the corner and now you're lashing out. OK. I guess you're angry and frustrated because you're unable to have a positive race experience with all the narcissist sandbaggers out there; you feel cheated and robbed. I suggest you relax and race for fun, even if you're slow and mid-pack. Or maybe you should stay away from racing if these guys get under your skin so easily.

    On that note, I'll go ahead and unsubscribe from this thread.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenu View Post
    It's still you.
    There are a few ways for me to respond to this. First, it's unjustified to say that I support sandbagging or that I like it. I can point out that you're being ridiculous with your dime store psychology without taking an opposite position.

    Next, your angry rants (yes, the things you said are angry) about people you don't know, people racing bicycles, say a lot more about you than they do about the guys racing bicycles. Reread what you said in this thread. Or read it to someone who doesn't ride bikes and ask them what they think. But do it without telling them that you wrote the words. I bet you would feel embarrassed if you heard an honest response.

    Finally, I'll accept your non-answers and the fact that you have repeatedly tried to make this about me as your defeat. You painted yourself in the corner and now you're lashing out. OK. I guess you're angry and frustrated because you're unable to have a positive race experience with all the narcissist sandbaggers out there; you feel cheated and robbed. I suggest you relax and race for fun, even if you're slow and mid-pack. Or maybe you should stay away from racing if these guys get under your skin so easily.

    On that note, I'll go ahead and unsubscribe from this thread.
    It started with narcissistic personalities...and now it ends with it. Poetic justice. Thank you.
    "You'll thank me when it's all said and done"

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blister Butt View Post
    You need to understand that the vast majority of pro bike racers are narcissists bordering on being true sociopaths. In other words, they have 10,000-pound glass egos, low self-esteem that drives competitive behavior, and a low-degree of empathy for other human beings (if they have any empathy at all). To them, winning a race—even if it means obliterating the local yokels by racing in lower categories due to some self-justified reasoning—becomes all important. In other words, there is no logic.
    Got generalization?

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    Got generalization?
    Talk to a sports psychologist. A real one, preferably one who deals with professional cyclists, and then come back here and report on your findings. Thank you.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blister Butt View Post
    Talk to a sports psychologist. A real one, preferably one who deals with professional cyclists, and then come back here and report on your findings. Thank you.
    I neg repped you for your insulting generalization of elite level cyclists. It seemed personal.. like someone mentioned, you just come off as jealous.

    Do tell.. What is your background that has granted you access to so many elite leveled cyclists' personalities?

    In case you forgot, these are your words below:

    "You need to understand that the vast majority of pro bike racers are narcissists bordering on being true sociopaths. In other words, they have 10,000-pound glass egos, low self-esteem that drives competitive behavior, and a low-degree of empathy for other human beings (if they have any empathy at all). To them, winning a race—even if it means obliterating the local yokels by racing in lower categories due to some self-justified reasoning—becomes all important. In other words, there is no logic."

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blister Butt View Post
    Sometimes I even make the podium.
    I doubt it.

    lol

  20. #95
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    An angry person gave me negative rep for what I said in this thread. Maybe he blames his inability to have a "positive race experience" on me. I don't know. But I must have hurt his feelings. His comment:

    "Aren't you brave with 58 total posts? I bet all your podiums are sandbags"

    I'm not sure what post count has to do with bravery.

    In response to the second part, I did podium four times at Sea Otter. Three of them were on the road, where it is impossible to sandbag due to USAC's mandatory upgrade policies. So no, my top finishes have not come from sandbagging. Sorry. My podiums come from stomping on the pedals.

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  21. #96
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    This is an interesting thread to me. Sea Otter was my third race ever on any kind of bike, my first two were CCCX races earlier this year to get ready for last weekend. My primary sport is actually sailing (specifically Laser sailing) and I used to ride a bike to stay fit for that (though now I'm getting into the XC racing, its definitely both challenging and fun).

    Anyway, the point is that in Laser regattas where the fleets get split, the mantra is "I'd rather be last in the gold fleet than first in the silver fleet", the idea being that its more fun to sail against the best sailors than in the forgotten fleet. So I don't really follow the idea of "sandbagging" down as a better chance to get on the podium - I'd think being in the Cat I group would get more respect, even if not on the podium, than being in Cat II.

    On the other hand... in looking over the results, in my group (Cat II 55-59) there were 36 riders while in the same Cat I group there were 24 and in Cat II there were 42. I guess if you wanted to race against the biggest field you would want to be in Cat III, if you wanted a big field and more challenge you'd go Cat II (for over 50 the Cat I and Cat II course was the same).

    My goals for this year were simple: a) be challenged (hence enter Cat II), b) finish, c) don't crash (see (b)), d) don't be last and e) finish under 2 hours. All were achieved. In looking at the Cat I results, I see that I could have done that there too, so my new goal for this year is to get into Cat I for next year's Sea Otter!

  22. #97
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    Sea otter was my first race in 15 years. I decided to register on Saturday and it was a great test of my fitness or lack there of. I raced Cat 3 and was happy to finish mid pack. Call me naive, but I look at the winning times as bench mark for training. I have year to see if I can get into that kind of shape given the amount of time I have to give

    This is supposed to be fun.. If I start to get worried about whether someone is sandbagging my race then I need to find a new sport.. I like winning just as much as the next guy and sure there should be a better system in place to ensure that there aren't any "European Pros" in a cat 2 race, but I don't lose sleep over it.

    Not to take away from Xenu's achievements or anyone else who made the podium, Congratulations by the way.. But I can buy my own camel bak and cliff bars.

  23. #98
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    I went to SOC and raced XC. I did see sandbaggers and it does disappoint me that people do that. I raced to challenge myself. I started riding a year ago and did it to lose weight and have fun. I lost weight, have fun and got my a$$ haned to me in Cat3. 6 miles wasn't a problem it was the 2800-2900 ft of climbing and doing the coastal road ride the day before.
    But I did have a lot of fun.
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  24. #99
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    Sea Otter Sandbaggers

    First year at SOC and raced CAT3 30-34 group. I placed 23rd of 56. I did damn near all of my passing on the downhills which can probably be attributed to my Mx background. My plan is to do CAT3 again next year and I'll hopefully be fit enough to dice it up with the "sandbaggers". If I can get inside top ten then ill move to C2. Sandbaggers are in most sports...who cares. If someone wins a 16 mile XC event by 2 minutes, or even 5 minutes I'm fine with that, as that's a goalqqp....it's the people that blow out the competition that should be moved up. I'll tell you someone though, if be more stoked to finish top 20 in C2 than to finish top 5 in C3!

  25. #100
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    Re: Sea Otter Sandbaggers

    I also raced cat 3 XC 30-34. It was my first time ever racing. I did some demo rides on Friday and a ride in SC on Saturday. I had never raced before and didn't know how I would feel after 2 days of riding, so I didn't think cat 2 was appropriate. After finishing 3rd I now know I should have been in cat 2 and will be next time.

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