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  1. #1
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    CHEATER in Cat II XC 15-18

    1 2297 MATTHEW KOENIG 16 SONORA, CA 01:09:52 00:00:00
    2 1804 JEFF SHEN 17 MONTEREY, CA 01:24:19 00:14:27.3
    3 1161 SCOTT KOLOFER 18 SALINAS, CA 01:24:22 00:14:30.8
    4 2112 ALEX WILD 17 LOS GATOS, CA 01:25:19 00:15:27.0
    5 922 JUSTIN GRIFFIN 13 WEST VALLEY CITY, UT 01:25:21 00:15:29.0

    1st place got away with cheating. Posted a time of 1:09 which is faster than most if not all pros, being one of the racers affected I think this is ridiculous and am very angry with Sea Otter Staff for refusing our protest. We all passed him and he got away with it.

  2. #2
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    I wonder why

    Sea Otter didn't somehow catch this either I mean, it's not like this one is rocket science... that is a big gap on the field...unless he royally sandbagged.

    Did others join in the protest?

    What happened on the podium?

  3. #3
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    If you are not cheating, you are not trying.
    If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong.

  4. #4
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    Clue me in here. What's your basis for saying he cheated? I see the guy won by a big gap; I also see he's apparently pretty young.

  5. #5
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    I need further explanation as to how he cheated or else I initial think you are just whining.

  6. #6
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    I was out there volunteering at a booth and heard a lot of people discussing this. His time was much faster than the rest of his age group (or any of the other groups) on that same course but the judges could not "prove" that he cheated so they awarded him 1st place. Nobody clapped or anything when he was announced as the winner.

  7. #7
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    kray,

    Sounds like the judges made the only decision that could be made. Without any proof hard to do anything. Maybe he is just that good, maybe not.

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    We all know he did not ride the full course.
    He started out in the lead pack, fighting for position. he crashed a couple times and fell back, I drafted him for awhile then passed him. No other time in the race did he pass me then I hear he beat me. its just not possible. Also Single Speeder Jason Macdonald, works for specialized, passed everyone in the field including the tandems and this guy never passed Jason, making it impossible to have beat him or me. Also, my girlfriend and family who were standing at the finish line noticed he was not even the least bit tired. On the podium none of us went up to the podium with him, we received our stuff later. He looked very guilty and only raised his hands for a split second, he knew he did it and so did we.
    Last edited by Alex Wild; 04-19-2009 at 10:01 AM.

  9. #9
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    Did you lodge your protest with the USA cycling official? I think he is same official at the Team Big Bear races. He has always been very responsive to complaints and rules in accordance with USA cycling regulations.

    I'm puzzled was the USA cycling official protested to or the Sea Otter Staff/volunteers?
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  10. #10
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    We were directed to a guy who we lodged our protest with, there were about seven of us all saying the same thing, either that we passed him or he never passed us... It was very disappointing to see such a big race with such a crappy outcome. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out 1:09 is impossible on that course, that would be averaging 18.5 mph in the SPORT cat.

  11. #11
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    His previous times also tell us he does not post times like that. 2 weeks ago he placed 5th in JV BOYS. With those kind of times he would be winning varsity.

  12. #12
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    Alex, thanks for the further explanation. From your explanation, it sounds like there must have been some spot on the course where he was able to cut off a loop to get in front, and there weren't enough course marshals / monitoring points to catch that.

  13. #13
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    What was matthew saying? Was he there during the protest?
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  14. #14
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    had that happen in road races (running) before, really sucks the fun out of it beyond belief. It's just hard to prove.
    Last edited by primefocus; 04-19-2009 at 01:27 PM.

  15. #15
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    "If you're not cheating, you're not trying"

    Cute but expected. . .

    Maybe well even get to "vote" for him in the 2028 POTUSA election

  16. #16
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    Yeah we all believe he cut the course somehow but are unsure of where. It was a big dissappointment in such a big race that he could get away with that. Mathew was not there during the protest but had been talked to and claimed to have riden the whole course. He rides for NorCal League and I think he Should be DQ'd for the season.

  17. #17
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    I'm surprised the officials did not dq him especially if he was not present during the protest to defend himself. The his time is too fast.

    But lets take a step back and make sure we know he cheated on purpose. It could be entirely not of his making.

    I would not assume that he "cheated" intentionally. Unless you actually heard him say "I raced the entire course". For all we know the mistake could have been with Sea Otter staff.

    Perhaps he cut the course by mistake and told someone that he DNFed. Races are a dynamic and hectic setting. I've put several races with my club CCORC. We have made errors with DNFer appearing to be 1st. (We corrected them and ruled in favor of the protester if the 1st place person was not there and others collaborated the protester) Perhaps the person he told did not relay it on the correct timely people. All I'm saying is don't label him a "cheater" unless you know he cheated. The whole thing could be a mix up not of his making.

    You know you won and that in it self is a major accomplishment. But listing someone's name on MTBR as "cheater" is uncalled for and inaccurate unless you heard him say that he won or ran the whole course.
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  18. #18
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    I am a bit bothered by the top cat3 times, in no way is that beginner?? Oh well, I had a good time even though I did 2:36 or so. It was nice that they had a water/energy break, I felt bad for the guys with one little bottle that keep saying "when is the next water." They should have been prepared but it still sucks for them..

  19. #19
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    We talked to him and he claimed to have been legit and raced the whole course, hence the reason we did not go up to podium.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Wild
    We talked to him and he claimed to have been legit and raced the whole course, hence the reason we did not go up to podium.
    Ouch! That clears in up in my mind. You were robbed! But I think you still won a free set of Crank Bros wheels right?
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  21. #21
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    Haha I wish I did!!!!!
    who told you that?

  22. #22
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    It must have been the 3rd place finisher then? I was at Crank Bros booth getting my Candys worked on when one of the juniors came up and presented his metal. There was a discussion about the "cheater" but the point was Crank Bros gave him a free set of wheels. I think if you went to booth before the race and demoed the wheels during the race and made it to the podium you got the keep the wheels! I wish I would have known about it before, I made 5th for my Cat. Those cobalts are sweet.

    Anyhow, strong work at the race! You are crazy fast! Sorry you were cheated out of a 1st.
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  23. #23
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    Three years ago all of us singlespeeders "cheated" by being directed to a much shorter course by the lead motorcycle. He probably went to pee somewhere and we followed him.

    None of us did it intentionally of course. One of the couple of racers who took the right course eventually gave up and complained. I never thought that I cheated because the whole pack was racing and I was following. :-/

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Wild
    Also Single Speeder Jason Macdonald, works for specialized, passed everyone in the field including the tandems and this guy never passed Jason, making it impossible to have beat him or me.
    If he posted a time before Jason Macdonald, it could have been only if Matthew's ankle tag passed over the mat at the finish line. If Jason was the first to pass in person, then the tag was not on Matthew's ankle.

    - If somebody else passed the tag, then it is obviously cheating.

    - How about an error in the timing system? Could it have posted an incorrect time? Very unlikely...

    - How about Matthew made an honest mistake and missed a turn?

    Ali

    P.S. After reading this thread, I thought of a cheating plan. This is just a thought; I am not saying it being related to this case at all: An accomplice passes the tag over the mat much *later* than the actual race starts and hands it to his racer friend somewhere before the finish line.

    Actually no hand-over needed: The racer stops as if there is a problem with the bike and grabs the tag from the spot where the accomplice hid it half an hour prior! :-O

  24. #24
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    Alex,
    1:25 you must have been cheating or riding with a motor.
    Great pace!
    Sorry to hear about this mud on the podium.
    I wonder how long it will be for Garmin type equipment to be required for a post ride inspection on big events? I could prove that I did not cheat to finish in 1:46. lol
    The worst part for this guy is that he will have the rest of his life to look back at that day that he took 1st from the guy that earned it. That is a bummer skeleton to have in your closet for the rest of his life.
    See you on the LG trails.

  25. #25
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    Thanks guys, wish i went to the CB tent before the race!!!
    I will fer sure see you on the trails!

  26. #26
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    Only thing I wanna know is how you let Scott beat you?

  27. #27
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    This 16 year old got 109 min?

    The guy that got first in my 25-29 Cat II got 119 min and he normally races Pro, along with 2nd place and 3rd place in my category. My guess is that he cut the course short at the the one really steep wall climb section, where the return of the course passes right by that section.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killroy
    This 16 year old got 109 min?
    Could very well be. That is 1:49...

    My guess is that he cut the course short at the the one really steep wall climb section, where the return of the course passes right by that section.
    That's my guess too. There were two arrows side by side, one pointing to the wall, one pointing to the right. The one pointing to the right said something like "junior ladies" in impossibly smally print. And no, I wouldn't be able to read it during the race.

    I can't believe that they used the same red arrow for both directions.

    Ali

  29. #29
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    Yup saw him on the last climb

    We all said theres no way in hell thats right. Sucks he didnt DQ himself at the finish. What a tool

  30. #30
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    I almost took a right where the girls do, I was in a bunch and they were turning so I followed the crowd until the guys standing around yelled at me - he probably did that..

  31. #31
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    Haha I didn't train as hard as I should have. I have beaten Scott in the past by larger margins

  32. #32
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    And i dont know the course well enough to know where he could have cut it... =/

  33. #33
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    You know what I passed up to eight clydes in the Cat 3 Clydes and it did seem odd that I came in 2nd to last? I was like WTF????

    I pre rode the course and on that fork where the women take the right turn it was easy to get confused. Oh well what can you do if they did intntionally cheat they are only cheating themselves.

    I am getting down on Sea Otter officials because that event overall was run very very well. It was also my first ever race and I was not aware that I could have protested the results within only 1/2 hour time of results being posted.

  34. #34
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    Poor kid. Not even here to defend himself.


    I'll bet his prom date is not going to be impressed by his fast finish

  35. #35
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    Too many explainations but lots of ill will.

    I know you are unhappy Alex but this is when you have to dig deep and be a good sport. Race Day is crazy and Sea Otter is simply jammed with an enormous number of people and circumstances. Now you are just smearing a person. This has nothing to do with NorCal High School Racing. If this is working you so bad then join up and dust him in the next race to get some satisfaction because you aren't going to get a pound of flesh.
    Good luck in your next race.

  36. #36
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    I don't race him anywhere else, hes JV and I am Varsity.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Wild
    I don't race him anywhere else, hes JV and I am Varsity.
    Then you have already beaten him.
    "Bikes aren't fast--people are fast. Bikes are overpriced. It's an important distinction."---BikeSnob NYC

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike
    I know you are unhappy Alex but this is when you have to dig deep and be a good sport. Race Day is crazy and Sea Otter is simply jammed with an enormous number of people and circumstances. Now you are just smearing a person. This has nothing to do with NorCal High School Racing. If this is working you so bad then join up and dust him in the next race to get some satisfaction because you aren't going to get a pound of flesh.
    Good luck in your next race.
    Seriously??????? Someone CLEARLY messed up and you expect him to be OK with that. Smearing a person who probably knows he has no business being on the podium, at least by 20 minutes, is OK with me. Especially if that person was already questioned and the mistake was brought to their attention. If I beat the field by that much I'd have to question myself and pull myself off of the podium. That would have been the "good sport" thing to do.

    I really can't believe you're saying "this is OK." What you've taught the other kid is that it's OK to cheat as long as no one can prove it. What ever happened to doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do.

  39. #39
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    "Behind every great fortune is a great crime"

    No seriously, that is messed up. When we have local races the connecting trails are always monitored by race staff...unless they make the course longer.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Wild
    I don't race him anywhere else, hes JV and I am Varsity.
    He races at Prarie City series every wed in Sacramento,I was at the top of the hill and dont remember him being ahead of everyone at that point. Is it possible it was a timing chip error?

  41. #41
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    So what cheater or sandbagger won the GT golden bike?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killroy
    So what cheater or sandbagger won the GT golden bike?
    No. The unwritten fine print says they have to be 18 to win. So...The guy who won the 25-29 class is most likely the winner. He races Pro in the Intermountain Cup series. However it doesn't earn national points so he couldn't race pro at Sea Otter. So he chose to race sport instead of expert. Hmmm. I guess that means in all reality, the answer is "yes" to your original question.

  43. #43
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    Hmmm, dang.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Wild
    I don't race him anywhere else, hes JV and I am Varsity.
    You compete directly with one of my racers, Ian Breunig, so I know a fair bit about your ability level. Ian raced Cat 1 at Sea Otter. It is a shame that you do not have a coach to support you right now. I imagine that this is why you are reaching out here.

    No one really knows exactly what happened or who was thinking what, when and lots of people pop off about what "otta happen." These sorts of contribution are a dime a dozen.

    For you though, I still encourage you to make an adjustment, stop spreading negativity, and see how this plays out. It is not over. Preserve your own dignity.

    I look forward to seeing you at this weekends race.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe
    No. The unwritten fine print says they have to be 18 to win. So...The guy who won the 25-29 class is most likely the winner. He races Pro in the Intermountain Cup series. However it doesn't earn national points so he couldn't race pro at Sea Otter. So he chose to race sport instead of expert. Hmmm. I guess that means in all reality, the answer is "yes" to your original question.
    That guy the won Cat II 25-29 was on a Delta 7 and beat me by 5:30 min. I had a chance to talk to him becuase I spoted his bike and medal at the Delta 7 booth. He told me that he normally races pro and he needed points to race expert. I say USA Cycling has some shitty rules. No wonder no one races it anymore on the dirt.

    The top 3 people race Pro (one of them in Super D) in the Cat II 25-29. I started a rant thread about it.

  45. #45
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    There really IS no fun in the sport category, is there??? I think I'll just stick to Cat3 until they kick me out.

  46. #46
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    who cares about the sandbagging and cheating. racing is about you posting your best time on that day, it is about you and your performance. placing amongst your peers is nice, but really if you are trying to collect a plastic trophy or a piece of metal on a string you should re-evaluate what you are doing on your bike.

    don't whine about someone "cheating", just go out and have fun. hell when i finished my race i knew i couldn't have done better. i checked the results and they said i was ninth, then people started protesting and somehow i lost two positions. does it matter to me? nope! if people need to cry their way into the top ranks then let em. i did my best and i have my time.

    one thing i am slightly bummed about is that the pro men didn't race the same laps so i can't compare my time to theirs. i don't have the results to bump to pro, but being able to compare times would let me know where i might have landed if i could bump up.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike
    Preserve your own dignity.

    Good rule of thumb period!

  48. #48
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    I only wish his time is true, he would have beat Sauser's first lap by about 4 minutes I think. America's next great hope!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by whybotherme
    who cares about the sandbagging and cheating. racing is about you posting your best time on that day, it is about you and your performance. placing amongst your peers is nice, but really if you are trying to collect a plastic trophy or a piece of metal on a string you should re-evaluate what you are doing on your bike.

    don't whine about someone "cheating", just go out and have fun. hell when i finished my race i knew i couldn't have done better. i checked the results and they said i was ninth, then people started protesting and somehow i lost two positions. does it matter to me? nope! if people need to cry their way into the top ranks then let em. i did my best and i have my time.

    one thing i am slightly bummed about is that the pro men didn't race the same laps so i can't compare my time to theirs. i don't have the results to bump to pro, but being able to compare times would let me know where i might have landed if i could bump up.
    Mmm, yeah I don't care about 9th or 11th. But 1st and 2nd, I care, and not because of a medal or trophy.

    At some point in my race career, which has just begun this season, I would like to win a race without sandbagging. If that were snatched from me because of someone cheating, I'd be pretty miffed. If you don't care, fine, but I don't begrudge people who want to win.

    People often criticize Tiger Woods for being too serious when he plays and not chumming it up with the fans. But that's what I like about him. I compete to win. I can have fun on my own.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterC

    People often criticize Tiger Woods for being too serious when he plays and not chumming it up with the fans. But that's what I like about him. I compete to win. I can have fun on my own.

    People criticize Lance Armstrong for being to shrewd and serious about racing. Look at his divorce of the mother of his children.

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