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  1. #1
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    VPP1 vs VPP2 and Nomad1 vs Nomad2

    Anyone prefer the older VPP design over the current one? Specifically as it applies to the new vs old Nomad. Also, anyone prefer the old Nomad vs the new one? The new Nomad shows a longer top tube also. Does the old Nomad feel smaller? Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    I have had both. From what I can remember, the differences are significant.

    The new VPP is tighter, less plush. The old one was a mini-dh bike. The new one is a bit more trail oriented, but I think with the right shock it could rock.

    I ordered mine with the RC4, and I think that might be a mistake. I think in this particular case, the RP23 witht he right tune might be the ticket. The new Nomad seems very progressive, so combine that with the progressive nature of a coil, and you have a bike that is a bit hesitant to get full travel. I am on a 350lb spring, and its difficult (but not impossible) to get to the bottom. I think the RP23 would rock here. Maybe I'll get to try one out, I dunno.
    Stuff.

  3. #3
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    Great.

    How about fit. Does the old Nomad fit smaller? The top tube is longer on the new one.

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    I just picked up an 08 Nomad (Vpp1 I believe) and on shuttle runs it is fantastic...pedals awesome on the limited uphill I let it see, and downhill rolls over everything...amazing...although if I were to go with just one bike (I also have a SL for XC) I would've gotten either the Blur LT carbon, or the Nomad carbon...

    Can't say that I've compared both side by side, but I guess it depends what you plan on using it for...

  5. #5
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    I am 6'3, longer torso, and I am happy on the large. I can't remember exactly how the old one fit to be honest.

    I can say that so far I am prettty goddam happy with that bike. Its stellar.
    Stuff.

  6. #6
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    I have a 08 Nomad(pre 08 I believe have the 1 1/8 head tube),so I would avoid those.My friend has a 2010 vpp2,both large.We swap bikes time to time,it seems he wants to ride mine more than I want to ride his.Climbing may be a bit better on the gen.2,barely in both opinions.Downhill is a different story,we both love the feel of the 08,its a pretty big difference!High speed xc straights is also liked better on the 08.The 08 cockpit does feel tighter,which I like.I think the 08 is the last TRUE AM Nomad.The newer ones are real nice as well,just a more XC feel!!!

  7. #7
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    I have once again the 08/09 Rev B. I prefer it geometry wise over the '09 MKII and on.Thing rock and rolls.

  8. #8
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    I have the Rev A w/ 1.5" headtube. I took it to Utah, and rode up Baby Steps, Amasa's Back, lots of trails with significant climbing. My friend even rode it on Slick Rock. The bike climbs really well for its weight (35 pounds). It doesn't bob, and does put most of the energy into the wheels.

    Given its weight, it was still hard to go uphill for so long (easily 1000 feet vertical on Amasa's back), but on the downhills, I was the first one down on most rides. It's does ride like a mini-downhill bike.

    I have no experience w/ Rev B, but have heard it is not as plush.

  9. #9
    Chillin the Most
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropmachine.com
    I have had both. From what I can remember, the differences are significant.

    The new VPP is tighter, less plush. The old one was a mini-dh bike. The new one is a bit more trail oriented, but I think with the right shock it could rock.

    I ordered mine with the RC4, and I think that might be a mistake. I think in this particular case, the RP23 witht he right tune might be the ticket. The new Nomad seems very progressive, so combine that with the progressive nature of a coil, and you have a bike that is a bit hesitant to get full travel. I am on a 350lb spring, and its difficult (but not impossible) to get to the bottom. I think the RP23 would rock here. Maybe I'll get to try one out, I dunno.
    I thought that was the other way around, coil shocks are linear and air shocks are progressive??

  10. #10
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    correct

    Quote Originally Posted by RED5
    I thought that was the other way around, coil shocks are linear and air shocks are progressive??

    that's right, coil is more linear. also he (dropmachine) is incorrect stating the new nomad is more progressive. actually, the shock rate curve for a MK1/VPP1 is more progressive than the shock curve for a MK2/VPP2. read somewhere that SC intentionally did this to give the MK2 a more livelier feel and to combat the wallowy effect from a shock with no mid stroke support (i.e. the older DHXA). also, the new shock rate curve helped with pedal induce bobbing.

    so with a progressive rate curve (MK1), having a shock with a more linear curve (coil) would certainly help balance small bump sensitivity, bottoming out on a big hit and everything else in between. if you put a progressive air shock on the MK1 it's nearly impossible to get a nice balanced setup. many MK1 owners (myself included - past tense) prefer a coil OR a shock with very good mid stroke support.

    the MK1 took more time to dial in, but once you get it dialed it's plush. the MK2 is more user friendly - felt good with the RS, DHXA-C, Float, etc... with the shorter chainstays the bike is snappier and quicker, which i really like for tight singletrack and technical rock gardens. in terms of the plush arguement specifically for small bump compliance on an air shock i would give the MK1 a marginal edge. but with a properly tuned air shock from Push the difference is gone. on a coil, the MK2 feels just the same as the MK1.

  11. #11
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    Surprised not too many VPP2 owners are chiming in?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX
    Surprised not too many VPP2 owners are chiming in?
    Too busy riding.
    "It looks flexy"

  13. #13
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    Would just like to read more feedback,being the carbon is not out of the question for me!

  14. #14
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    I've had an 07 and currently ride an 09. In my opinion the general consensus out there is accurate. The 07 felt a bit more gnar oriented and the 09 feels a bit more pedal friendly. The usual bike give and take ensues. I personally don't feel like the contrast is as huge as some make it out to be but there is a contrast so there it is. It was a very small contrast when I ran the 09 with a DHXC and a light 350lb coil (168ish lbs geared up). Now running it with a Pushed RP23 and I like it. Sure, more trail oriented, but it works for me because I like the efficiency gains. YMMV.

    As for sizing I went from medium to medium and didn't notice much of a change but I'm sort of oblivious to that kind of stuff anyways so long as it's not drastic.

    The '07 Gen 1


    The '09 Gen 2

    Old pic. Now with Pushed RP23.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by scruffylooking
    I've had an 07 and currently ride an 09. In my opinion the general consensus out there is accurate. The 07 felt a bit more gnar oriented and the 09 feels a bit more pedal friendly. The usual bike give and take ensues. I personally don't feel like the contrast is as huge as some make it out to be but there is a contrast so there it is.
    I also had a medium Gen1 (2006) Nomad and now have large Gen2 (2009) Nomad and agree with Scruffy.

  16. #16
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    I had a 2006 Gen 1 Nomad with a CCDB rear shock and loved the bike. I tested the VPP2 Nomad (didn't buy) and have had a play on it since and don't like the feel of VPP2 as much as the original version. I couldn't get the small bump sensitivity that the original version had. That was the biggest difference between the two for me.

  17. #17
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    VPP 1 vs VPP 2

    Granted, it's somewhat apples to oranges, but I owned a VPP 1 Nomad and then bought a carbon Blur LT. The Nomad did everything well. It pedalled well, was plush and just felt comfortable in most terrain. The carbon Blur on the other hand is a totally different beast. Yes, it has less travel and a steeper head tube, but the suspension is totally different. It is way more oriented towards cross country than the previous version.

    I personally didn't like the feel of the Blur so I put it up for sale and bought a Butcher. Again, somewhat apples to oranges, but I like the feel of the Butcher much better. It seems closer to the original Nomad, yet it feels stiffer and is still plush. If anyone is looking for a light, stiff, cross country oriented trail bike, let me know.

  18. #18
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    Based on looks alone,the pre vpp2 Nomad(with 1 1/5ht) looks alot more agressive and meaner,with its more curved & beefier top tube,more like a AM bike should.Go ahead and bash me for caring about looks WE ALL CARE.Thats why people do things like color match.No,I dont buy things based on looks alone,there are other bikes I think look a little better,but dont perform as well as a Nomad,thats why I own one!

  19. #19
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    I agree with socalMX, the Nomad 1's looked more agressive and for lack of a better term, more "expensive". I like my Nomad 2, from a maintenance stand point, its light years better than my Nomad1 - but to me it looks very mass-produced vs the Nomad 1.

  20. #20
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    im loving my Nomad 2 with RP23, way better than the DHX air it came with

  21. #21
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    I've been following this thread with great interest. Good to see more and more people with Nomad 1 & 2 experience chiming in

    Here's my take: I started off on a v.5 Heckler as soon as it came out. Built burly with DHXC and Talas36, but otherwise light components coming to a total 30lb. Used to be the perfect bike for agreessive trail and light DH. Then a friend got the Nomad 1, with DHXC and RS Domain and with a rather heavy build (he was on a budget). As soon as I tried the Nomad I was like... wow... butter smooth on decents... so much better suspension platform... perfect mini DH bike... but I could easily overtake my friend on general trail riding since the Heckler was so much faster... (due to weight/geometry)

    Then the Nomad MkII came out... immediately I thought this would be my next dream bike.... new improved VPP and a lighter frame... how can I go wrong. Sold my Heckler and got the MkII with the Monarch on the rear and Van36 upfront, otherwise light components DT EX1750 wheels, etc.. coming close to the 30lb of my previous ride. First ride I hated the air shock... so I made a deal with the guy who bought my Heckler and got my old DHXC 5.0 back (gave him the brand new Monarch). Things started to improve on the MkII but not quite there... I then went for a lighter spring (#350 and I'm 160lb geared up) and also started to ride the bike always with the suspension fully open, no propedal, even on general trail riding days... this bike pedals so well that you don't really need propedal. But I must agree with some of the previous posters that 1st and 2nd gen Nomads are two different animals... the 1st gen felt to me like a mini DH bike, very plush... but I can never imagine that I could do fast trail riding on that bike... it sorta feels like a 'big' bike to me. Now the 2nd gen Nomad is light and fast but not as plush... so people who used to love the 1st gen Nomad for its pushiness are somehow dissapointed in that respect...

    Personally, I enjoy the MkII because I can do fast trail riding in the morning and then switch to DH in the afternoon.... sure, I wish it was a bit plushier and with better small bump sensitivity, so I sent my DHXC to PUSH for a 'plush' MX tune and we'll see how that turns out to be...

    Do you have to compromise a bit on plushiness and small bump sensitivity to get a snappier and faster 160mm AM/Trail bike?? On the 2nd gen Nomad the answer seems to be 'yes'... Is that bad?? In my eyes the answer is 'no' since I get to enjoy a truly versatile bike and do fast trail and DH all in the same day ...

    Would the current ligher frame designed with a VPP platform somewhere between VPP1 and VPP2 be the next 'dream' bike? Who knows... but until Santa Cruz decides to redesign the Nomad (or Dave is ready to release the RFX ) I'm sticking with my MkII that suits my present needs

    Mike

  22. #22
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    Don't have too much new to add, but I figured another perspective always helps.

    I had the original Nomad, and loved it. I had a Heckler before that, and loved it as well. I also own an older Bullit. Switching from the Heckler to the Nomad took a little getting used to. The Heckler was so tight and flickable, and I used it as my everything bike. The Nomad felt relatively long and tall, and it took a little adjusting to the VPP versus single pivot, but after a little time we really bonded.

    Then my poor Nomad broke, and SC warranted my frame (well, most of it, since I "upgraded" to a newer version, but no complaints), and I got a MKII Nomad. Granted, it was a significant amount of time between riding the old versus the new (I live in Montana, and I broke the frame in Autumn, so it was spring before I was riding the new one), but I found the differences to be more subtle than most. I would imagine that in a more back to back comparison I would notice more of a difference. I agree with the statements that the older version leaned towards the downhill side a little more, but the new version rails corners and I'm able to flick it all over the trail a little bit more like my heckler of old. I didn't notice much difference in the fit. If anything the newer version is a better technical climber. Perhaps, it has a lot to do with the type of trails one usually rides, but I'm fairly certain that I'm faster on my new Nomad.

    Also, I swapped my shock from the old to the new (a dhxc), but after a little bit, I got an RC4, and I thought that was a major improvement. I feel like the bike is both plush and responsive.

    While waiting for my replacement, I rode my Bullit as my trail bike, and I realized how much I had gotten used to VPP, and how amazing it rides.

    A friend of mine recently switched from the old Nomad to a NomadC, and he loves it, but agrees that the old bike was a mini dh, and his new ride is the ultimate AM trailbike, and he's quite happy.

    I guess it all depends on what you're looking for in a bike. I wouldn't trade my new for the old, in terms of ride quality, and for maintenance and stiffness, the MKII rocks.

    Hope that helps

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX
    Based on looks alone,the pre vpp2 Nomad(with 1 1/5ht) looks alot more agressive and meaner,with its more curved & beefier top tube,more like a AM bike should.Go ahead and bash me for caring about looks WE ALL CARE.Thats why people do things like color match.No,I dont buy things based on looks alone,there are other bikes I think look a little better,but dont perform as well as a Nomad,thats why I own one!
    Ditto. Those that say they don't care, care the most...

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