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  1. #1
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    VP-Free Crank, BB, Guide & Chain Line (Merged Thread)

    I'm running a LRP dual ring guide on my VP Free with the new style Shimano XT cranks with outboard bearings. The cranks are awesome-- light and strong, but do not work with this setup. The chainline is all messed up due to the extra width of the BB design. What other cranks have you guys found to work well with the Free, especially those of you who are running a dual-ring guide?

    Also, if anyone has cranks that will work on this bike and wants to trade for a nice XT set, let me know! Otherwise they'll probably be for sale pretty soon.

  2. #2
    Lord of the Chainrings
    Reputation: Mudd's Avatar
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    Go with RaceFace DH

    The downside to the VP-Free setup is that you have to spend $100 for a 128mm bottom bracket from RaceFace or Truvativ, to get the chainline correct. (Rear hub is another story.)

    I use the RaceFace Evolve DH crankset on mine. It rocks!
    Last edited by Mudd; 03-14-2006 at 08:04 AM.
    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

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  3. #3
    All Mt, DH
    Reputation: rogue's Avatar
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    On my Free I'm running Truvativ Hussfelts with the 128mm BB.
    I think the BB may be on the way out.
    Looking at other options.... especially Diablous.. (prefer outboard bearing designs - easier to get cranks off)
    Anyone have experience with outboard bearing cranks on the Free?
    From Raceface website:
    BUILT FOR: DH & Extreme Freeride
    SIZE: 165,170, 175mm
    BB SHELL SIZE: 68/73, 83, 100mm
    WEIGHT: 1150g (175mm with 36T DH ring and BB)
    WARRANTY: Lifetime
    COLOURS: Bad Ass Black & Shiny Silver

    So If a Free needs a 73BB width then can an 83mm Diablous BB be cut 10mm (its only plastic on Shimano anyway) and have some spacer outside the driveside BB cup and between the drive crank.??? Just a thought

    I only run a 22/32/Bash setup and need to get (as close as possible) a 55mm chainline as per SC recommends...

    I did run the 68/73mm Saints and Hone but the chainline wasnt good and ghost shifted too much.

    Any recommendations appreciated
    2007 Blur 4x
    2009 Driver 8

  4. #4
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    Shimano saint M805 with 83mm BB

    BB changed to Race Face Diabolus bearings and spaced out from the frame ( 73mm BB conversion kit, plus spacers)

    Saint Front derailleur

    No chain problems but it looks a bit odd with the spacers.

  5. #5
    All Mt, DH
    Reputation: rogue's Avatar
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    Ghostrider
    Any chance of some pics of your crank setup, particularly the Race Face BB and spacers on the drive side..

    Thanks

    Rogue
    2007 Blur 4x
    2009 Driver 8

  6. #6
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    Sure, Here they are.
    I am going to get a single custom spacer machined up to replace the three in there, this should make it look a bit better.
    You can buy the Race face fitting kit this provides a different internal spacer, or just a 73mm BB shimano one.
    You need the race face bearings as they have longer threads than the shimano ones. This means you can thread the BB in as far as a normal saint one yet still fit the bigger spacers.
    You then have two choices:
    1) Fit the Race face spacers and space the crank arms out from the BB or
    2) like on mine, fit the spacers between the frame and the BB.

    I chose this option because a) the protrusion on the non drive side b) In order to seal properly the crank arms need to fit against the bearings.

    It does add cost though as you have to buy the extra BB bearings and kit.
    I have had no chain line problems. I also changed the original XT front mech to the saint one and it seems fine. Its definatly more beefy.

    I run with an E13 chain guide as well, again no issues.
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  7. #7
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    This link helped me get it sorted:

    http://speedgoat.com/feature-vpfree.asp

  8. #8
    All Mt, DH
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    Thanks for the pics Ghostrider.. nice effort

    I did notice the Race Face bearing cups have more thread engagement than Shimano, which in theory means u could run more spacers.

    You say the Race Face kit has a different internal spacer.. I assume I buy one for a 73mm BB shell...

    Also if you are running a 2 ring setup can you measure the approx chainline (centre of seatpost to in between the two chainrings).... I'm really curious to see how it works out.

    I have seen that Speedgoat article before. (Speedgoat are great... I have bought lots of stuff from them).

    I have had the 'protusion' machined away on the non drive side...

    Interestingly the Saint cranks are quite a bit lighter than Diabolus (almost 200grams I think).. so that will come into the equation soon.
    I had M800 Saints before on my Free (an reallly liked them... just chanliine was wrong)

    Thanks for all you info so far.

    Rogue
    2007 Blur 4x
    2009 Driver 8

  9. #9
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    I got the measuring tape out and its a 55mm chainline. So spot on.

    I have also had the 'protrusion' machined away, it was done by SC themselves and they have confirmed it doesn't effect the warranty. I will also be having it done on my other VP free when it arrives.

    You need the M805 saints, I originally had the M800 but you get a poor chainline. As it was a custom build I sent it back to the shop and we sorted it out.

    This is from the SC website:
    "Raceface now offers a version of the Diabolus/ Evolve DH that will work. You need the 83mm bb shell version, which offers a 57.5mm chainline. You also need the 73mm shell adaptor kit. "

    The LBS I got the bike from gave me the original BB (saint) and also the Race Face spacer for the 83mm BB.
    So I think they used the Race face BB with the 73mm Saint spacer. They then used the BB spacers that came with the race face BB. Either that or they got the Race face BB kit and used the spacers from that.

    Happy to help, let me know if you need any more info
    Surrey Mounatin Biking (UK)
    www.guidedlines.com

  10. #10
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    Here's the link to the original pics, you can see the Saint BB that was fitted originally.

    New VP-Free
    Surrey Mounatin Biking (UK)
    www.guidedlines.com

  11. #11
    All Mt, DH
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    Thanks Ghostrider

    Usefull info.

    I will now try and obtain the M805 Saints and RF BB

    It seems there are not many choices for external BB in the wider (83mm cranks)

    Good to see your setup works well.

    Rogue
    2007 Blur 4x
    2009 Driver 8

  12. #12
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    VP-Free crank spacing (NEED HELP PLEASE)

    I am wondering how people are setting up their cranksets. I have the SPX build kit which gives you a 83mm crank with 3 silver spacers to make it fit the 73mm bottom bracket shell.
    I set the RaceFace X-type cups as instructed (two little black spacers on the drive side and one on the other), but the spindle is too long so I put two of the silver spacers on the spindle, outside the bearing cups, on the drive side and one on the other.
    My concern is the crank seams to out really far from the bike. How will this affect shifting (I'm running a duble with a clamp on XT derailer).
    Does any one have pictures of their crank set-up, or how have people been setting up the cranks for two rings up front.
    SC sent a 83mm crank for a 73mm bottom bracket shell to be used with a e13 single ring chain guide, but I know there are lots of people running dubles so I'm sure there must be a right way to set this up.
    Any help is much appeacieated
    Thanks
    Keep It Sketchy

  13. #13
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    I am running a 73mmX118mm BB with a double ring in front. For spacing I have a small 1-2mm spacer along with the thickness of my MRP LRP arm and have had no shifting issues with chain lines.
    measure your chain line, center of the BB to the halfway point between the two rings. SC recommends this to be 55-57mm.
    I have yet to measure mine but I don't see any need since I don't have any issues.
    Live Life, Taste Death

  14. #14
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    Similar to mine, see this thread for details and pics:

    VP-Free Crank, BB, Guide & Chain Line (Merged Thread)
    Surrey Mounatin Biking (UK)
    www.guidedlines.com

  15. #15
    Knomer
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    The BB spindle width should be 128mm. A 118mm "can" work but your feet will rub on the very wide chainstays.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnookums
    I am wondering how people are setting up their cranksets. I have the SPX build kit which gives you a 83mm crank with 3 silver spacers to make it fit the 73mm bottom bracket shell.
    I set the RaceFace X-type cups as instructed (two little black spacers on the drive side and one on the other), but the spindle is too long so I put two of the silver spacers on the spindle, outside the bearing cups, on the drive side and one on the other.
    My concern is the crank seams to out really far from the bike. How will this affect shifting (I'm running a duble with a clamp on XT derailer).
    Does any one have pictures of their crank set-up, or how have people been setting up the cranks for two rings up front.
    SC sent a 83mm crank for a 73mm bottom bracket shell to be used with a e13 single ring chain guide, but I know there are lots of people running dubles so I'm sure there must be a right way to set this up.
    Any help is much appeacieated
    Thanks
    Hey you are on the right track, I'm putting mine together next week so I don't have any pics, but you are on the right track. I ahve some pics of my friends but they don't show the spacers... in the dark with mud....

    An xt derailer will work fine on a dual ring setup, if you want to run a tripple ring then you will need a saint 805 to get that extra reach to get into the top ring. remember a VP free is designed around a 55mm chain line.

    cheers

    james

  17. #17
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    chain guide for vp-free

    Hi,
    i am a new vpfree owner.
    wich is the best chainguide for a single chainring on a vpfree?
    srs from e-13 or a system3 from mrp?
    thanks.
    Last edited by 8664; 07-17-2006 at 12:13 AM.

    ride.

  18. #18
    Freeriding Feline
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    I have the MRP Mini Me on there, but if I had the $$$ I'd try to put a DRS on so I can use it for more of an all-mountain ride. That second ring option would be nice.
    But the MRP is strong and it's taken Diablo rocks for about three years now. It was on my Bullit and now my VP Free.
    "If you give up your dream, you die."
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  19. #19
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    Ditto. MRP Mini-Me. Also previously on a Bullit.

  20. #20
    2 wheel drifter
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    Damn DRS and VP-free

    So when I rebuilt my VPfree, (damn replacing all those bearing is a pain in the ass), I threw on a e-13 drs. Works great until I have to ride over a big rock or log then the guide hangs too low and gets smacked up into the chainstay where it not only knocks the stay but pinches the chain, essentially immobilizing it. It seems like a lot of people are running DRS guides on there VPfree's, so whats the secret? The guys at e-13 said they didn't have any good solutions so I thought I'd look here. Any input is much appreciated.

  21. #21
    Knomer
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    Shave/Dremel as much material as you can off the top off the backplate, so you can rotate it as for clockwise as possible. Then tighten then system with the backplate touching the frame since when you sit on the bike the backplate/roller will move away from the frame. You should be using 2 spacer plates between the backplate & roller, and I found the roller worked better with a washer behind the roller and behind the roller cover bolt.

    Here's a pic with the bash removed...
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  22. #22
    Lord of the Chainrings
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    I use the MRP LRP with no problems.
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    Last edited by Mudd; 09-08-2006 at 11:20 AM.
    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

    ~~ 951 for Dirt & Roadster for Asphalt ~~

  23. #23
    2 wheel drifter
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    I was figuring I would have to do a little machining so it works well. I'll bust out the dremmel and see what I can do. Dusty, quick question: so you have the guide plate basically touching the chainstay when the suspension is fully extended? does cutting put it up high enough to be out of harms way?

    I hadn't considered the MRP product, I'm thing of swapping the drs on my hardtail, so perhaps a mrp for the VPfree. Is the mrp roller definitely high enought o avoid getting nailed?


    thanks for the responses guys

  24. #24
    Knomer
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbart
    I was figuring I would have to do a little machining so it works well. I'll bust out the dremmel and see what I can do. Dusty, quick question: so you have the guide plate basically touching the chainstay when the suspension is fully extended? does cutting put it up high enough to be out of harms way?

    I hadn't considered the MRP product, I'm thing of swapping the drs on my hardtail, so perhaps a mrp for the VPfree. Is the mrp roller definitely high enought o avoid getting nailed?


    thanks for the responses guys
    Yes, I have the backplate touching the chainstay when the bike is static. This gets the roller assembly tucked up a little further.

    The lower vpp 'drop' link behind the bb creates a unique problem with vpp frames and roller guides. No matter what brand roller you choose it will never be in optimal position. You don't want to tuck it up TOO FAR since the chain will eventually bind on the underside of the chainstay. Just tuck it up to about 8 o'clock and ride. My roller cover has not taken a direct hit since I dremeled the extra room on mine.
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  25. #25
    2 wheel drifter
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    Thanks dusty, sound advice. I'm looking forward to giving it a go.

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