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  1. #5001
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  2. #5002
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    I have a Tallboy LTa with a two year old stock Fox CTD Evolution rear shock. I weigh 220 pounds, intermediate rider, mostly trail rides in Tennessee. I see posts about which rear shock is the "best" upgrade but it seems like this depends on the rider, the bike, the riding type, and the willingness of the rider to tweak the damn shock every month including adding spacers if needed.

    If I just send my current Fox CTD to Avalanche and give them my specs, then I'd get the right tune but maybe a slightly inferior shock compared to Fox DPS Evil and RT3? I have found some nice RT3 debonair shocks on Pinkbike that are coming off new Hightowers (some say "L tune"), which would probably work for me because VPP for Hightower should be similar to VPP for Tallboy, right? It seems that most retailers sell a M/M tune of Rockshox, and I don't know if that's good or bad for me and my bike. Sorry if I'm overthinking this, but I am torn between simplifying things by sending to Avalanche versus getting a new shock (RT3, Fox DPS Evil, etc) then tweaking until it works right. Any advice is much appreciated!

    Justin

  3. #5003
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrobnewman View Post
    I have a Tallboy LTa with a two year old stock Fox CTD Evolution rear shock. I weigh 220 pounds, intermediate rider, mostly trail rides in Tennessee. I see posts about which rear shock is the "best" upgrade but it seems like this depends on the rider, the bike, the riding type, and the willingness of the rider to tweak the damn shock every month including adding spacers if needed.

    If I just send my current Fox CTD to Avalanche and give them my specs, then I'd get the right tune but maybe a slightly inferior shock compared to Fox DPS Evil and RT3? I have found some nice RT3 debonair shocks on Pinkbike that are coming off new Hightowers (some say "L tune"), which would probably work for me because VPP for Hightower should be similar to VPP for Tallboy, right? It seems that most retailers sell a M/M tune of Rockshox, and I don't know if that's good or bad for me and my bike. Sorry if I'm overthinking this, but I am torn between simplifying things by sending to Avalanche versus getting a new shock (RT3, Fox DPS Evil, etc) then tweaking until it works right. Any advice is much appreciated!

    Justin
    Why would you think a custom tuned shock is going to be inferior to one of those others? No kashima?
    I'd take an Avy tune evolution over a stock factory Fox or RS any day of the week.
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  4. #5004
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    It'd certainly be the less expensive route to rebuild the CTD. Maybe putting a fancy new $500 Fox DPS EVOL shock on my $2500 alloy Tallboy LT would be a bit overkill. Aluminum or not, my Tallboy LTa is still quite sick and deserves a solid rear end -- maybe the Avy rebuild will be a solid choice. I call my bike a "monster truck" compared to my 100mm travel friends who gain zero pedaling efficiency over me. Any comments very appreciated.

    Justin

  5. #5005
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrobnewman View Post
    It'd certainly be the less expensive route to rebuild the CTD. Maybe putting a fancy new $500 Fox DPS EVOL shock on my $2500 alloy Tallboy LT would be a bit overkill. Aluminum or not, my Tallboy LTa is still quite sick and deserves a solid rear end -- maybe the Avy rebuild will be a solid choice. I call my bike a "monster truck" compared to my 100mm travel friends who gain zero pedaling efficiency over me. Any comments very appreciated.

    Justin
    Call Criag and talk to him. My Mojo3 came with an Evol and he recommended a CTD over the Evol for the Mojo3 suspension. So don't assume new is better.
    Last edited by TwoTone; 12-30-2016 at 01:25 PM.
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  6. #5006
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    I don't know what part of TN you are in. A few friends and I drove to NC to ride at Dupont the other day. They rented Hightowers at "the Hub" bike shop in Brevard/Pisgah. The shop guys and mechs all recommended Ohlins air spring shocks or the Ohlins air shocks over, FOX, RS, and DVO. They all said it is a game changer. I don't buy that statement, game changer, but maybe they are a very good improvement. I have not riding time on an Ohlins shock but have heard nice things about DVO.

    I know Fox will allow you to trade in your current rear shock for an EVOL DPS and its like $399. I could share the info if you are interested. I think the shock has to be less than 5 years old. I agree with Twotone, a tune would give you better happiness over your current shock.

  7. #5007
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    Hey guys I want to go wider! After riding my dads 27.5 plus my tires look anorexic! Right now I am running stock wtb i23 rims with Maxxis 2.2 ardent back and high roller 2 2.3 up front. What wide rims and tires are you guys running? Im thinking 29 to 35mm id rims. Maybe 35mm rim with 2.4 tire up front? That should add quite a bit of volume and contact vs what I have now? I have a fox 34 up front. Also should I use the dt 350 hubs, that work fine, from my old wheels are just shell out for new hubs?

  8. #5008
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikkfreerider View Post
    Hey guys I want to go wider! After riding my dads 27.5 plus my tires look anorexic! Right now I am running stock wtb i23 rims with Maxxis 2.2 ardent back and high roller 2 2.3 up front. What wide rims and tires are you guys running? Im thinking 29 to 35mm id rims. Maybe 35mm rim with 2.4 tire up front? That should add quite a bit of volume and contact vs what I have now? I have a fox 34 up front. Also should I use the dt 350 hubs, that work fine, from my old wheels are just shell out for new hubs?
    You'll need to check the fork and rear triangle clearance. Im running 30mm rims with 2.35 wtb vigilantes. Plenty big enough. Left 5mm clearance each side.

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  9. #5009
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    Before breaking the frame, I rode Derby 44 id rims with a 2.8 Rekon/rear and 3.0 RR/front but that was with a 29er Pike. Rear clearance was tight but never had an issue. Made the LTC a whole new animal.
    DT 350 are solid hubs, they will last through many builds.

  10. #5010
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    Quote Originally Posted by EC3 View Post
    Before breaking the frame, I rode Derby 44 id rims with a 2.8 Rekon/rear and 3.0 RR/front but that was with a 29er Pike. Rear clearance was tight but never had an issue. Made the LTC a whole new animal.
    DT 350 are solid hubs, they will last through many builds.
    How did you break the frame? Do you have pics? What did SC do for you?

  11. #5011
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    How did you break the frame? Do you have pics? What did SC do for you?
    Heard an unfamiliar SNAP coming off just a 2 footer. Next ride noticed the top tube cracked about halfway down. There was a previous scratch in the area so SC offered a crash replacement, a Hightower. Cost about $2k when all was said and done. Like the HT so far but loved my TBLTc.
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  12. #5012
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    Quote Originally Posted by EC3 View Post
    Heard an unfamiliar SNAP coming off just a 2 footer. Next ride noticed the top tube cracked about halfway down. There was a previous scratch in the area so SC offered a crash replacement, a Hightower. Cost about $2k when all was said and done. Like the HT so far but loved my TBLTc.
    You must have purchased your LTc before the lifetime warranty took effect in 2015? Or were you a second owner? I say that because the few frames that people here report have cracked, had been replaced for next to nothing if in warranty and first owner.

  13. #5013
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikkfreerider View Post
    Hey guys I want to go wider! After riding my dads 27.5 plus my tires look anorexic! Right now I am running stock wtb i23 rims with Maxxis 2.2 ardent back and high roller 2 2.3 up front. What wide rims and tires are you guys running? Im thinking 29 to 35mm id rims. Maybe 35mm rim with 2.4 tire up front? That should add quite a bit of volume and contact vs what I have now? I have a fox 34 up front. Also should I use the dt 350 hubs, that work fine, from my old wheels are just shell out for new hubs?
    Curious if you want aluminum or carbon? Two good options are Industry Nine aluminum Enduro wheelset (34.5 Outer width and 30.5 inner, not a bad price and usually if you buy from Comp Cy, they give good deals. I have the older I9 Enduro wheelsets that are 31.5 outer and 26 inner.

    I love these rims and the hubs are excellent but I will admit buyers remorse in that I should have just spent a little more to go with NOX. The Nox would have shaved off a half pound in rolling resistance that is very noticeable. My enduro wheels have my 2.35 Schwalbe Hansdempf and NN at a very decent width. I've compared them to the i23 wheels and mine look much wider.

    If going carbon, you could consider NOX wheelsets, not too wide and not too thin either. They offer the Teocali wheelset at 32 outer and 26 inner, then Farlow wheelset is 35 outerwidth and 29 inner. Nox has a great reputation and the price is really not that bad, usually can be had for 5-$600 over the I9 aluminum wheelset. The Nox can be built up with your choice of hubs too.

  14. #5014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Curious if you want aluminum or carbon? Two good options are Industry Nine aluminum Enduro wheelset (34.5 Outer width and 30.5 inner, not a bad price and usually if you buy from Comp Cy, they give good deals. I have the older I9 Enduro wheelsets that are 31.5 outer and 26 inner.

    I love these rims and the hubs are excellent but I will admit buyers remorse in that I should have just spent a little more to go with NOX. The Nox would have shaved off a half pound in rolling resistance that is very noticeable. My enduro wheels have my 2.35 Schwalbe Hansdempf and NN at a very decent width. I've compared them to the i23 wheels and mine look much wider.

    If going carbon, you could consider NOX wheelsets, not too wide and not too thin either. They offer the Teocali wheelset at 32 outer and 26 inner, then Farlow wheelset is 35 outerwidth and 29 inner. Nox has a great reputation and the price is really not that bad, usually can be had for 5-$600 over the I9 aluminum wheelset. The Nox can be built up with your choice of hubs too.
    Or these for $180 a rim and have a builder put it all together for you for less than NOX.

    https://www.lightbicycle.com/35mm-wi...atibility.html
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  15. #5015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    You must have purchased your LTc before the lifetime warranty took effect in 2015? Or were you a second owner? I say that because the few frames that people here report have cracked, had been replaced for next to nothing if in warranty and first owner.
    Actually I bought it new in June '15 from a Santa Cruz dealer. It was the last one within a hundred miles from where I live. They(SC) said it wasn't warranted because I previously scratched it right where the crack occurred. I had the bike for just over a year and would have preferred to get another one but they are long gone. My buddy had his struck by lightning and got the same deal as I did.

    Believe me I wasn't too happy about the decision from SC.

  16. #5016
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    Just rode mine the other day, got a rare late january ride in. I forgot how sweet this bike is. 5 years old design but still I think my favorite bike to date. And I've had quite a few.

  17. #5017
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    I've got a chance to get a 2015 Tallboy ltc with fox 34 forks, in good nick for about $3000 usd. I am looking for a good climbing / descending fast fun bike. Is it worth it? Or is the geometry and old version of the bike just not worth it? I have been considering a short travel 29er. process 111 or similar, or a rocky mountain thunderbolt (I know smaller wheel but I don't really mind).

    Does the tallboy ltc feel more like you are on the bike - or in the bike type thing?

  18. #5018
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    Tallboy LT and LTc Owners Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by froutts View Post
    I've got a chance to get a 2015 Tallboy ltc with fox 34 forks, in good nick for about $3000 usd. I am looking for a good climbing / descending fast fun bike. Is it worth it? Or is the geometry and old version of the bike just not worth it? I have been considering a short travel 29er. process 111 or similar, or a rocky mountain thunderbolt (I know smaller wheel but I don't really mind).

    Does the tallboy ltc feel more like you are on the bike - or in the bike type thing?
    I can't comment on the price but as a bike the LTc is still very relevant in this day and age. I've had mine for four years and I have no need to replace it. The bike is still more capable at just about everything than its rider
    Last edited by TheNormsk; 02-10-2017 at 10:45 PM.

  19. #5019
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    I still love my LTc, it is still my go to daily rider in my garage. It has seen a little less bike time since October when I got my Bronson 2, but come spring I will be using the LTc 5 days a week.

    It is a great bike IMO, very capable yet not overly slack like the modern 130-150 travel 29ers so you don't get some of the weird climbing characteristics with slow speed stuff.

    The only way I'd get rid of my LTc is if I found an XL or XXL LTc frame used cheap and then it would only be a frame swap.

  20. #5020
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    Well you are on the TBLTc thread so you won't get many neg votes and I won't give you one either. Its a great bike and will be for a long time. I converted mine to 27.5 Plus and it made the bike even more capable and just more fun.

    Your deal looks reasonable as its the last year they were made and they hold their value as I'm sure you've seen. Really depends what it has for goodies, wheels, drive train, brakes, rear shock...

    I would still have mine, but I got a crash replacement Hightower when my frame cracked. It was a freak thing, I don't believe the bike is prone to breaking, SC has the carbon thing down.
    For 3k you will be hard pressed to find a better ride if its specced even fairly decently.

    Good Luck

  21. #5021
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    This is similar to the discussions going on about the OG Ripley. People can't fathom that the new 'Long and slack' doesn't work for everyone.
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  22. #5022
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    Thanks for the replies. Yes, the LTC has one stans flow on hope rear wheel, unknown hub with a carbon rim front, xt brakes, fox 34 kashima forks, ks lev dropper, chris king headset, cod kashima rear shock. One small scratch on top tube where brake lever caught it, it does look good. But for about $750 more I can get a new Rocky mountain thunderbolt 730 msl, or transition scout, banshee phantom, and so on. So the new bike with warranty etc, or the older but still great tallboy ? I am not sure.. I'm sure it would be a lovely bike to ride though

  23. #5023
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    Sold mine today. Immediately regretted it. F.

  24. #5024
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    Getting my pike increased to 150mm travel next week. Figured might as well do it since I'm getting the shock and fork seals/wipers all replaced and new oil, with over 2k miles I figure it was time. Still loving my LTc.

  25. #5025
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    I'm thinking about parting with mine to fund another purchase. Will be hard to let her go.

  26. #5026
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    I'm thinking about parting with mine to fund another purchase. Will be hard to let her go.
    It was tough but I'm in school and I need the money! I'm always gonna miss that bike.
    Dude got a hell of a deal too, full XO1, carbon wheels, ks LEV ti, carbon bits, PIKE, Monarch+... $3k. Sigh.

  27. #5027
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    Getting her ready for spring, got a new fox float and a few other updates coming also. Cant wait for the weather to dry out here in oregon!
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  28. #5028
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    Tallboy LT and LTc Owners Thread-20170311_150532.jpg
    Making the best use of my time.
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    Rotors, Pads & Bleed.

  29. #5029
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    I just picked up a 2015 LTc S build.

    What is the biggest tire I can run on the rear without any rubbing? The front looks like I could run a 2.4 possibly but I'm not 100 percent though.

  30. #5030
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    I run a 2.4 front and rear on my LTc on a 25.5 ID rim. If I ever dork these stan's flow ex rims I'm going with Nox Farlows next. Plenty of room for 2.4s.

  31. #5031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin513 View Post
    I run a 2.4 front and rear on my LTc on a 25.5 ID rim. If I ever dork these stan's flow ex rims I'm going with Nox Farlows next. Plenty of room for 2.4s.
    Got any pics of the clearance by any chance?

  32. #5032
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    Running DHF 2.5 front and Ardent 2.4 rear. 30 mm ID rims. Plenty of room. I did get some rub with a 2.35 Hanz Damp on rear but ran it till worn out just fine.


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  33. #5033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Structure View Post
    Running DHF 2.5 front and Ardent 2.4 rear. 30 mm ID rims. Plenty of room. I did get some rub with a 2.35 Hanz Damp on rear but ran it till worn out just fine.


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    I'd like to avoid rubbing, is there something special about the Hanz that caused rubbing where the Ardent doesn't?

  34. #5034
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    I have an aluminum lt with 30mm id rims. Im running 2.6 Schwalbe Nobby Nic on the front and 2.3 high roller 2 on the rear. The Nobby actually measures just over 2.5 and my fox 34 still has plenty of room. Anything bigger than 2.6 on the front and its getting pretty tight. Better off getting a boost fork. On the rear I wouldnt go over 2.4...but a 2.5 might fit but then again its getting tight. Also depends on how big your leg muscles are.... extreme torque might cause your chain stay yoke to experience thermally activated isokinetic vibrations thus causing your tire casing to expand up to 1.5 sizes. The physics of going full enduro are definitely at play here!

  35. #5035
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    Here is a picture of the clearance.




  36. #5036
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikkfreerider View Post
    Here is a picture of the clearance.

    Thanks for the pic. I think I'm going to go 2.3 or 2.35 in the rear, and keep it at half enduro just to be safe. 👍

  37. #5037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2183 View Post
    I'd like to avoid rubbing, is there something special about the Hanz that caused rubbing where the Ardent doesn't?
    I think Hanz Damp has a larger casing but I was also running Arch EX wheels then so it might also have been a flexing issue.


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  38. #5038
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    Does anyone have a picture of a drilled stealth routing dropper port? Reverb bit the dust and I'm doing anything but bleeding hydraulic remotes again


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  39. #5039
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    Quote Originally Posted by cecald View Post
    Does anyone have a picture of a drilled stealth routing dropper port? Reverb bit the dust and I'm doing anything but bleeding hydraulic remotes again


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    Do yourself a favor and get a KS Lev or the Fox transfer that has external routing. There's a guide for the underside of the top tube and the cable entry for the post is fixed at the seattube collar. By my own experience the KS Lev is rock solid and all reports on the Transfer are stellar.

  40. #5040
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    Quote Originally Posted by cecald View Post
    Does anyone have a picture of a drilled stealth routing dropper port? Reverb bit the dust and I'm doing anything but bleeding hydraulic remotes again


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    I posted pics earlier in a separate thread, I believe. SC even sent me a rubber grommet. 9Point8 Fall Line.

    Stealth Routing
    Last edited by reamer41; 03-18-2017 at 10:57 AM.
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  41. #5041
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    Same exact thing happend to me. Liked reverb but was soooo done with rebuilds and the hydraulic mess. Was going to drill the hole and gromet thing but.... Ended up going with the ks lev instead. Like said above it is stationary at the seat post collar. Either way your going to have a dropper cable running down the top tube or down tube. I love the ks, my dad has been running his for years no problem.

  42. #5042
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikkfreerider View Post
    Same exact thing happend to me. Liked reverb but was soooo done with rebuilds and the hydraulic mess. Was going to drill the hole and gromet thing but.... Ended up going with the ks lev instead. Like said above it is stationary at the seat post collar. Either way your going to have a dropper cable running down the top tube or down tube. I love the ks, my dad has been running his for years no problem.
    +1 on KS

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  43. #5043
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    However, mine has a bit of rotational play. Anyone has the same?

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  44. #5044
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    How much play are you talking about? Mines over a year old and only rotates like a millimeter or less. A reasonable amount would be normal? If your feeling it while riding id say its a problem.

  45. #5045
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    Yes. Very slight, but not noticable during riding. Annoying though.

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  46. #5046
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    Tallboy LT and LTc Owners Thread

    I'm on my second KS (150mm Ti). I also have play but honestly I can't notice it with my butt. It's only when wiggling it off the bike that it appears. I did have to rebuild my first LV (125mm) and had to send my current post in for warranty work but over all the post is nice.


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  47. #5047
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    Thanks for the replies. KS lev on order. Still love this bike!


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  48. #5048
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    Has anyone tried running 650+?

  49. #5049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spooled View Post
    Has anyone tried running 650+?
    You'll have to look through the thread but there are many TBLT's running 650+, I've seen some on ebay too.

  50. #5050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    You'll have to look through the thread but there are many TBLT's running 650+, I've seen some on ebay too.
    This and I thought I remember there was a 650+ post for the TBLT as well.

  51. #5051
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    o whats the biggest tire that fits

  52. #5052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spooled View Post
    o whats the biggest tire that fits
    I ran a 2.8 Rekon on Derby 50's rear with a descent amount of clearance. 3.0 RR on the "old school" Pike. Transformed the bike.

  53. #5053
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    did you by any chance note the bb drop?

  54. #5054
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    I'm sure it did drop a little but not enough to notice. It was a better riding bike in every way after the switch. Plus bikes are just more fun to ride, to me theres no downside.

  55. #5055
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    monarch rt3 is great shock for tallboy ltc

    Quote Originally Posted by jrobnewman View Post
    I have a Tallboy LTa with a two year old stock Fox CTD Evolution rear shock. I weigh 220 pounds, intermediate rider, mostly trail rides in Tennessee. I see posts about which rear shock is the "best" upgrade but it seems like this depends on the rider, the bike, the riding type, and the willingness of the rider to tweak the damn shock every month including adding spacers if needed.

    If I just send my current Fox CTD to Avalanche and give them my specs, then I'd get the right tune but maybe a slightly inferior shock compared to Fox DPS Evil and RT3? I have found some nice RT3 debonair shocks on Pinkbike that are coming off new Hightowers (some say "L tune"), which would probably work for me because VPP for Hightower should be similar to VPP for Tallboy, right? It seems that most retailers sell a M/M tune of Rockshox, and I don't know if that's good or bad for me and my bike. Sorry if I'm overthinking this, but I am torn between simplifying things by sending to Avalanche versus getting a new shock (RT3, Fox DPS Evil, etc) then tweaking until it works right. Any advice is much appreciated!

    Justin
    sorry if this is coming too late. I had avalanche tune the evolution float ctd
    to trail/all mountain. It came back way to soft with no middle support. sent it back and they changed to xc tune. Was better than stock, but not by much. Got a monarch rt3 m/m and it's great - for what I like to ride - xc and trail in the northwest. Plenty of climbing platform, and really nice on descents. I think the m/l tune used on the hightower would be fine as well, maybe better since the pedal setting is pretty firm on the m/m tune. I'm 190 lbs on an xxl frame, air pressure around 250 for the monarch.

  56. #5056
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    Tallboy LT and LTc Owners Thread-img_8289.jpg
    Tallboy LT and LTc Owners Thread-img_8293.jpg
    Tallboy LT and LTc Owners Thread-img_8291.jpg

    Still loving the Tallboy LTc, I have my eye on a couple of demos but those demos would have to really wow me to dethrone the LTc. May upgrade wheels to LB carbon w/I9 hubs or NOX farlows with I9's, also looking at the Fox float X rear shock, the X2 may be a little more than what I need.

    Running 2.35 Hans D in front and 2.35 NN in the rear on last years I9 Enduro wheelset. Good volume on this setup with plenty of room. THe Schwalbe's are lighter than the Maxxis but if I go carbon I'll try the Maxxis with larger volume tire set up.

  57. #5057
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    snip...

    Still loving the Tallboy LTc, I have my eye on a couple of demos but those demos would have to really wow me to dethrone the LTc. May upgrade wheels to LB carbon w/I9 hubs or NOX farlows with I9's, also looking at the Fox float X rear shock, the X2 may be a little more than what I need.

    Running 2.35 Hans D in front and 2.35 NN in the rear on last years I9 Enduro wheelset. Good volume on this setup with plenty of room. THe Schwalbe's are lighter than the Maxxis but if I go carbon I'll try the Maxxis with larger volume tire set up.
    Great looking bike! I've been demoing lately but I haven't been wow'd enough to buy anything yet. I don't remember that color scheme, is it custom? Here is my mistress. You'll love the carbon wheels


  58. #5058
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoodie View Post
    Great looking bike! I've been demoing lately but I haven't been wow'd enough to buy anything yet. I don't remember that color scheme, is it custom? Here is my mistress. You'll love the carbon wheels

    Yes that is a custom color scheme. And yes I think we all love those carbon wheels.

  59. #5059
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    That is just gorgeous.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

  60. #5060
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    Awesome!

  61. #5061
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    Is anyone here running a DVO Topaz on their Tallboy LT? I'm still on the stock Fox Factory CTD, so anything would be an improvement, but the Topaz seems like a contender worth considering. Don't want to shell out for an ElevenSix, not thrilled with the apparent reliability issues with the Cane Creek DB/inline, and not looking to give Fox money for an EVOL. Debonair or Topaz left standing unless someone else has suggestions.

  62. #5062
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    Ran the Debonair for a long time until i went to the EVOL. I think the Debonair is a killer shock!
    Santa Cruz TallBoy LT



  63. #5063
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    I ran a debonair Monarch Plus. Best ride improvement I ever made to my frame. that said I currently run a Topaz on my current ride (not a vpp bike) and it's a super shock. Probably the nicest shock I've ever used and the company is so awesome. Would definitely recommend d.

  64. #5064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reywcms View Post
    Ran the Debonair for a long time until i went to the EVOL. I think the Debonair is a killer shock!
    So the Debonair is killer and the EVOL is an upgrade from that? Am I reading this correctly and that's the main take-away?

    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    I ran a debonair Monarch Plus. Best ride improvement I ever made to my frame. that said I currently run a Topaz on my current ride (not a vpp bike) and it's a super shock. Probably the nicest shock I've ever used and the company is so awesome. Would definitely recommend d.
    Nicest shock you've used has DVO Topaz > Monarch Plus, but the Monarch plus is already a huge improvement...

    This is why I like to not think about these things and just pedal my bike. Max, since you've got experience on the Topaz and on the TBLT (just not together) do you think they would play nicely together?

  65. #5065
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBaker View Post
    So the Debonair is killer and the EVOL is an upgrade from that? Am I reading this correctly and that's the main take-away?



    Nicest shock you've used has DVO Topaz > Monarch Plus, but the Monarch plus is already a huge improvement...

    This is why I like to not think about these things and just pedal my bike. Max, since you've got experience on the Topaz and on the TBLT (just not together) do you think they would play nicely together?
    I agree with Max, the Monarch Plus was a huge upgrade on the TBLTc. I think many have put it on that frame with success. It seemed perfect to me. I have the same shock on the Hightower now and it takes substantially more PSI to get the right sag. I only say that to illustrate not every shock, perhaps the DVO, works on every frame similarly.
    We know the Monarch works on the TBLTc.

  66. #5066
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    I would guess the Topaz would play nice with the VPP2. But I would recommend calling DVO and talk to Ronnie if you are seriously thinking about getting s Topaz. They answer their phone and are super helpful. That said, a M/M Monarch plus can be found pretty cheap and is known to be a great shock for this bike.

  67. #5067
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBaker View Post
    Is anyone here running a DVO Topaz on their Tallboy LT? I'm still on the stock Fox Factory CTD, so anything would be an improvement, but the Topaz seems like a contender worth considering. Don't want to shell out for an ElevenSix, not thrilled with the apparent reliability issues with the Cane Creek DB/inline, and not looking to give Fox money for an EVOL. Debonair or Topaz left standing unless someone else has suggestions.
    Last chance to talk me out of a Topaz. Local distributor has stock arriving tomorrow supposedly in 200X51...

  68. #5068
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBaker View Post
    Last chance to talk me out of a Topaz. Local distributor has stock arriving tomorrow supposedly in 200X51...
    I'm not going to talk you out of it because I am curious about this same issue. For me, I've been on the fence about the Topaz or Fox Float X or X2. Seems the X2 gets all the best reviews on what Fox offers and any reviews on DVO, none have been negative. Cursious, did you follow Max counsel in calling up DVO about compatibility with VPP2?

    I know Fox has a trade in or they call it "crash replacement program" if your current fox shock is less that 5 years old. They said I send in my current Fox RP23 and I can get the DPS Evol for $300. I need to ask what they would charge me for the X2 if I send in my RP23. If they say $400 for the X2 upon sending in the RP23, I may just keep the RP23 as a back up and get the DVO. I've seen the DVO as low as $375 and averaging $400.

    The nice thing about the Topaz is for as good as it is, that sucker only weighs 330 grams! Fox X2 averages about 510 grams.

  69. #5069
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reywcms View Post
    Ran the Debonair for a long time until i went to the EVOL. I think the Debonair is a killer shock!
    What does this mean? Do you like the EVOL over the debonair? You say "until i went to the EVOL." So now you're on the Evol and it is a huge improvement over the Debonair? You still on the Ltc?

  70. #5070
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBaker View Post
    Last chance to talk me out of a Topaz. Local distributor has stock arriving tomorrow supposedly in 200X51...
    X2 , monarch rc3 or float x for Bronson

    Link of the trade up deal with fox if interested. I shot them an email to find out what the price would be to trade in my RP23 boostvalve to an X2 or Float X. We'll see....

  71. #5071
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    Hey Rev. 14. Yes I called DVO. Very helpful on the phone.

    A big reason I'm going with the DVO is that I can get it for $445 here in Costa Rica. The import duties here are insane, so even approaching that $400 mark is impressive and the local distributor has been great in response to my inquiries. Having a back-up shock if it ever needs to go in for service is also a great bonus for me. High temperature consistent performance is another perk. Avoiding having to ship anything stateside is another huge benefit for me, and then finally there's the performance and tuning options which don't seem to give up a whole lot to any of the other options.

    Oh, and my bike is the black and 'tennis ball yellow' option with a few other green parts on it and the DVO should look rad. Will revive this thread once it's mounted and given a shake down.

  72. #5072
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    CCDB inline is killer!

  73. #5073
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBaker View Post
    So the Debonair is killer and the EVOL is an upgrade from that? Am I reading this correctly and that's the main take-away?



    Nicest shock you've used has DVO Topaz > Monarch Plus, but the Monarch plus is already a huge improvement...

    This is why I like to not think about these things and just pedal my bike. Max, since you've got experience on the Topaz and on the TBLT (just not together) do you think they would play nicely together?


    That is correct! The Monarch debonair plus rct3 was a great shock but the 2017 Fox float evol with the coating i feel has better small bump compliance. I feel that rockshox has been on top for a long time and fox has needed to play catchup and just recently they finally have. I have the Pike on the front and its amazing. Not worth it to switch to the fox 34 for the price for such a minor improvement.
    Santa Cruz TallBoy LT



  74. #5074
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    Anyone tried the dbair IL?

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

  75. #5075
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    Quote Originally Posted by aqteh View Post
    Anyone tried the dbair IL?

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
    No but the inline is good I've been eyeballing one.

    I just added a volume spacer and it's freaking amazing!
    made the bike worth the price.

  76. #5076
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    I'm selling my XXL 15 Tallboy LTc if anyone is looking for one.

    https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/2187451/

  77. #5077
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    DVO topaz

    Tallboy LT and LTc Owners Thread-image1.jpg

    DVO topaz is a sweet trail shock for the TBLTC in my opinion. It has great small bump compliance, eats up rock gardens and downhills, and actually climbs better than my old fox dps, especially on technical ups. It's also super user friendly, essentially has no stiction, and it's easy to get dialed in, what's not to love?! Customer service is also great, they can help you get your tune locked in. It does work well with the VPP2 by the way.


    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBaker View Post
    So the Debonair is killer and the EVOL is an upgrade from that? Am I reading this correctly and that's the main take-away?



    Nicest shock you've used has DVO Topaz > Monarch Plus, but the Monarch plus is already a huge improvement...

    This is why I like to not think about these things and just pedal my bike. Max, since you've got experience on the Topaz and on the TBLT (just not together) do you think they would play nicely together?

  78. #5078
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoodie View Post
    . . . I've been demoing lately but I haven't been wow'd enough to buy anything yet.
    Demoed a Ripley LS large and a Pivot Mach 429 trail this past week. The chainstay length on both of these bikes are about the same. The ripley has 120mm rear travel and 429 is 116mm rear travel. I really wanted to like the Ripley LS, the bike fit me so well and the frame in person looks really stunning. However, spending all day on the bike, I found it to be very, very twitchy! The bike had 780mm bars compared to my 740mm bars and it felt so unstable and downright dangerous. It has slacker head angle than my LTc and my Ltc does not feel this twitchy.

    The tad difference in chainstays compared to the Ltc were not even noticeable. I felt the 120mm of DW link suspension was really not enough. The suspension was dialed just the way I like it but it rode harsh and it felt like it had less than 120mm of travel. The bike was using all the 120 close to bottom out. Pedaling uphill was where this bike shined, it did go when you stepped on it.

    The Pivot 429 trail has less travel than the Ripley LS but felt like it had more than 116mm of rear travel. It was much more plush than the Ripley's 120mm. It was not as twitchy as the LS felt but the twitchyness was still noticeable on this bike. It did have bars that were 760mm wide and a 130mm Fox 32 fork. This bike felt much more capable than the Ripley Ls and when it came to uphill climbs, it was noticeably better climbing than the Ripley LS. It wasn't even close. Here is where I could notice a difference between my LTc.

    I wanted to try the Pivot switchblade and the Yeti 5.5 but these were not available. This may not be a fair comparison as the Tallboy LTc has 135mm rear travel and I have a 140mm Pike fork. However, being the Tallboy LTc has steeper head angle and a tad longer chain stays, the LTc feels like a more stable bike over roots, rock gardens, and jumps. The LTc does not feel twitchy compared to the 429 or the Ripley LS. I couldn't believe it. I thought the slacker HTA was going to really wow me and it didn't.

    Probably a more fair comparison would be against the Switchblade and the Yeti 5.5. This week I'm hoping to get on the HIghtower and compare this to the LTc. My buddy who has the hightower was also demoing the Pivot 429 trail with me and he said the 429 trail felt down right dangerous and unstable. He said he had a tough time picking lines as the bike is all over the place at high speeds compared to the stability of the Hightower. I felt the Pivot to be less twitchy than the Ripley was.

    I find the Pivot 429 trail and Ripley Ls to be really fast bikes that pedal really well and are suited for XC riding. I don't find these two bikes to be in the trail/mountain/enduro category at all. When put into the trail/all mountain trails they get really unstable. I don't find this to be the case with LTc.

    The LTc is more plush in every way over the rough stuff. Climbing is noticeable in the LTc as it does have a bit of bob when climbing steeps compared to these two bikes. Take into account that I still have the stock Fox CTD rear shock that is terrible shock and others who have replaced it have improved performance in climbing.

    That being said, I still find the Tallboy LTc to be a winner compared to these two bikes, IMO. I'll go head to head with a hightower this week and post my thoughts.

  79. #5079
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMC2 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1142053

    DVO topaz is a sweet trail shock for the TBLTC in my opinion. It has great small bump compliance, eats up rock gardens and downhills, and actually climbs better than my old fox dps, especially on technical ups. It's also super user friendly, essentially has no stiction, and it's easy to get dialed in, what's not to love?! Customer service is also great, they can help you get your tune locked in. It does work well with the VPP2 by the way.
    I have a Cane Creek DB Inline and then reliability issues may be rearing their head. It seems to use up more travel than it used to and is making a harsher sound.

    I have a DVO diamond and love it. I'm an old school Marzocchi guy so feel right at home with DVO. I'm now looking at the Topaz.

    Do you have any time on a CCDB inline to compare it with the Topaz? I may call DVO but sounds like you already did and they said it's fine with VPP2.

    I do like having all the tuning options of the CCDBIL, but if it's not user serviceable and has bad seals....that's a $200 rebuild waiting to happen.

  80. #5080
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Demoed a Ripley LS large and a Pivot Mach 429 trail this past week. The chainstay length on both of these bikes are about the same. The ripley has 120mm rear travel and 429 is 116mm rear travel. I really wanted to like the Ripley LS, the bike fit me so well and the frame in person looks really stunning. However, spending all day on the bike, I found it to be very, very twitchy! The bike had 780mm bars compared to my 740mm bars and it felt so unstable and downright dangerous. It has slacker head angle than my LTc and my Ltc does not feel this twitchy.

    The tad difference in chainstays compared to the Ltc were not even noticeable. I felt the 120mm of DW link suspension was really not enough. The suspension was dialed just the way I like it but it rode harsh and it felt like it had less than 120mm of travel. The bike was using all the 120 close to bottom out. Pedaling uphill was where this bike shined, it did go when you stepped on it.

    The Pivot 429 trail has less travel than the Ripley LS but felt like it had more than 116mm of rear travel. It was much more plush than the Ripley's 120mm. It was not as twitchy as the LS felt but the twitchyness was still noticeable on this bike. It did have bars that were 760mm wide and a 130mm Fox 32 fork. This bike felt much more capable than the Ripley Ls and when it came to uphill climbs, it was noticeably better climbing than the Ripley LS. It wasn't even close. Here is where I could notice a difference between my LTc.

    I wanted to try the Pivot switchblade and the Yeti 5.5 but these were not available. This may not be a fair comparison as the Tallboy LTc has 135mm rear travel and I have a 140mm Pike fork. However, being the Tallboy LTc has steeper head angle and a tad longer chain stays, the LTc feels like a more stable bike over roots, rock gardens, and jumps. The LTc does not feel twitchy compared to the 429 or the Ripley LS. I couldn't believe it. I thought the slacker HTA was going to really wow me and it didn't.

    Probably a more fair comparison would be against the Switchblade and the Yeti 5.5. This week I'm hoping to get on the HIghtower and compare this to the LTc. My buddy who has the hightower was also demoing the Pivot 429 trail with me and he said the 429 trail felt down right dangerous and unstable. He said he had a tough time picking lines as the bike is all over the place at high speeds compared to the stability of the Hightower. I felt the Pivot to be less twitchy than the Ripley was.

    I find the Pivot 429 trail and Ripley Ls to be really fast bikes that pedal really well and are suited for XC riding. I don't find these two bikes to be in the trail/mountain/enduro category at all. When put into the trail/all mountain trails they get really unstable. I don't find this to be the case with LTc.

    The LTc is more plush in every way over the rough stuff. Climbing is noticeable in the LTc as it does have a bit of bob when climbing steeps compared to these two bikes. Take into account that I still have the stock Fox CTD rear shock that is terrible shock and others who have replaced it have improved performance in climbing.

    That being said, I still find the Tallboy LTc to be a winner compared to these two bikes, IMO. I'll go head to head with a hightower this week and post my thoughts.
    Honestly there have been only a handful of FS 29ers I've liked compared to my LTc and none that I've loved as much. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of 29ers I like, just for all around everything I like the balance the LTc. IMO the HT is definitely way more capable downhill, climbs tech great, but it is a lot longer and not quite as nimble through slow speed stuff. Add on the DH tires and it gets to be a slow roller up long climbs. The Intense Carbine reminds me of the same, just way too much bike for all around riding, but definitely a downhill slayer. I had a painful experience with the Yeti 5.5 as the demo had it setup so wrong and even with some on-trail adjustments I just couldn't get into it, I really want to demo another one. The Intense Primer was fun but didn't blow me away. I sort of like the new Trek Fuels over the past few years but they just don't deal well with really gnarly stuff IMO, they seem to get thrown about. The LS, Transition Smuggler and 429 are similar to me, great fast bikes (faster IMO then the Fuel) but not as plush like you mentioned. I really loved the TB3, but again not as plush and I think that is what I'd replace my LTc with if I ever needed too. I'm sure there are a few more bikes I forgot to mention but the ones I mentioned stick out to me... I've done a ton of demos over the past 3 years.

    I guess I just really like the 68-69 degree head angle of a 29er with the plushness of a 135-150mm suspension, and a good stable yet nimble 29er. The LTc definitely is a unique character. I get why people love the other bikes. IMO my 14 Trek Stache and LTc compliment each other very well and have very similar geometries. Both I've increased the front fork travel +10mm, 130mm for the Stache and 150mm for the LTc.

  81. #5081
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Demoed a Ripley LS large and a Pivot Mach 429 trail this past week. The chainstay length on both of these bikes are about the same. The ripley has 120mm rear travel and 429 is 116mm rear travel. I really wanted to like the Ripley LS, the bike fit me so well and the frame in person looks really stunning. However, spending all day on the bike, I found it to be very, very twitchy! The bike had 780mm bars compared to my 740mm bars and it felt so unstable and downright dangerous. It has slacker head angle than my LTc and my Ltc does not feel this twitchy.

    The tad difference in chainstays compared to the Ltc were not even noticeable. I felt the 120mm of DW link suspension was really not enough. The suspension was dialed just the way I like it but it rode harsh and it felt like it had less than 120mm of travel. The bike was using all the 120 close to bottom out. Pedaling uphill was where this bike shined, it did go when you stepped on it.

    The Pivot 429 trail has less travel than the Ripley LS but felt like it had more than 116mm of rear travel. It was much more plush than the Ripley's 120mm. It was not as twitchy as the LS felt but the twitchyness was still noticeable on this bike. It did have bars that were 760mm wide and a 130mm Fox 32 fork. This bike felt much more capable than the Ripley Ls and when it came to uphill climbs, it was noticeably better climbing than the Ripley LS. It wasn't even close. Here is where I could notice a difference between my LTc.

    I wanted to try the Pivot switchblade and the Yeti 5.5 but these were not available. This may not be a fair comparison as the Tallboy LTc has 135mm rear travel and I have a 140mm Pike fork. However, being the Tallboy LTc has steeper head angle and a tad longer chain stays, the LTc feels like a more stable bike over roots, rock gardens, and jumps. The LTc does not feel twitchy compared to the 429 or the Ripley LS. I couldn't believe it. I thought the slacker HTA was going to really wow me and it didn't.

    Probably a more fair comparison would be against the Switchblade and the Yeti 5.5. This week I'm hoping to get on the HIghtower and compare this to the LTc. My buddy who has the hightower was also demoing the Pivot 429 trail with me and he said the 429 trail felt down right dangerous and unstable. He said he had a tough time picking lines as the bike is all over the place at high speeds compared to the stability of the Hightower. I felt the Pivot to be less twitchy than the Ripley was.

    I find the Pivot 429 trail and Ripley Ls to be really fast bikes that pedal really well and are suited for XC riding. I don't find these two bikes to be in the trail/mountain/enduro category at all. When put into the trail/all mountain trails they get really unstable. I don't find this to be the case with LTc.

    The LTc is more plush in every way over the rough stuff. Climbing is noticeable in the LTc as it does have a bit of bob when climbing steeps compared to these two bikes. Take into account that I still have the stock Fox CTD rear shock that is terrible shock and others who have replaced it have improved performance in climbing.

    That being said, I still find the Tallboy LTc to be a winner compared to these two bikes, IMO. I'll go head to head with a hightower this week and post my thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin513 View Post
    Honestly there have been only a handful of FS 29ers I've liked compared to my LTc and none that I've loved as much. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of 29ers I like, just for all around everything I like the balance the LTc. IMO the HT is definitely way more capable downhill, climbs tech great, but it is a lot longer and not quite as nimble through slow speed stuff. Add on the DH tires and it gets to be a slow roller up long climbs. The Intense Carbine reminds me of the same, just way too much bike for all around riding, but definitely a downhill slayer. I had a painful experience with the Yeti 5.5 as the demo had it setup so wrong and even with some on-trail adjustments I just couldn't get into it, I really want to demo another one. The Intense Primer was fun but didn't blow me away. I sort of like the new Trek Fuels over the past few years but they just don't deal well with really gnarly stuff IMO, they seem to get thrown about. The LS, Transition Smuggler and 429 are similar to me, great fast bikes (faster IMO then the Fuel) but not as plush like you mentioned. I really loved the TB3, but again not as plush and I think that is what I'd replace my LTc with if I ever needed too. I'm sure there are a few more bikes I forgot to mention but the ones I mentioned stick out to me... I've done a ton of demos over the past 3 years.

    I guess I just really like the 68-69 degree head angle of a 29er with the plushness of a 135-150mm suspension, and a good stable yet nimble 29er. The LTc definitely is a unique character. I get why people love the other bikes. IMO my 14 Trek Stache and LTc compliment each other very well and have very similar geometries. Both I've increased the front fork travel +10mm, 130mm for the Stache and 150mm for the LTc.
    Either of you ridden a Following yet? (I know blasphemy in this sub-forum) Compared to the TB3 its much plusher and a bit more flickable. My only gripes are it's heavy (but so is the TB3) not + compatible and doesn't handle square edge hits as well as TBLT. I've never liked how the TBLT rear end felt, it sinks into its travel too easy, even with a CC Inline and I've always felt on top of the bike, not in it. I'm super long legged and with a 150mm KS Lev on a med frame I'm at max extension on the seatpost. I felt much more "in" on the Hightower, TB3 and most definitely the Following.

  82. #5082
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    I got to take someone's following out and they had it in the low mode and I felt the bottom bracket was extremely too low then. I'd like to take one back out in high mode or maybe add some air to not sag as much, as really the BB isn't any lower than a TB3, and I never hit pedals with the TB3, but I definitely struggled with the Following on a pretty tame trail with low pedals. I also noticed it wandered going up the steep climb I did, but I was also struggling with pedal strikes so I was probably forcing things more than I can remember. I think in terms of sub 130 travel 29ers it definitely turned/flicked well, but not to a point I'd consider buying one, but like I said I'd like to demo one again but fiddle with it some first.

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    I have never tried the following, I do want a demo and I would like to demo a Wreckoning as well. Next time I'm at the Hub in Ashville, I'll give one of these a demo.

    What I forgot to mention is the trails I took the Ripley LS and the Mach 429trail on. I took the demo from Absolute bikes in Salida, CO. The Ibis I rode on the Rainbow trail. What I failed to mention now that I think it was the pedal strikes the Ripley LS had. I was not used to that. I lost count after a while and it became a distraction as I was trying to watch my technique so I would not hit anything else. I don't know about you all, but I can't stand continual pedal strikes it really distracts from riding.

    The Ripley seemed to be really fast but no faster than the Tallboy LTc and for being longer and slacker it didn't really seem to make a difference. The Ripley LS was not confidence inspiring on the Rainbow trail as I felt many times it was actually dangerous because it was so twitchy. Some of you might say, well the Rainbow trail isn't exactly a fair place to ride the Ripley LS but I would disagree. It's a 120mm travel bike with a 67.5 HTA. Should be able and provide some stability, especially with 17.5 chainstays it has a decent wheelbase. The 12.8in BB was a problem though, too many pedal strikes! I ran the bike with about 28% sag on 2.35in Nob Nic tires and the suspension just seemed to throw you every time over small to medium stuff. It didn't eat up the small stuff but the small stuff ate it up.

    The Pivot I rode on (formerly) Salsa trail (forgot the new name of it), Cottonwood trail, Sweet dreams, and then Chicken dinner. The BB height on this bike is at 13.19in and the pedal strikes were not happening, which I welcomed. For having a slacker seat tube at 72.8, it climbed better than the Ripley LS, noticeably better. I had this bike running at 25% sag and the suspension was much more forgiving compared to the LS. But compared to the TBLT, it was not as plush especially over small bumps. I know Cottonwood is a much more rockier and technical trail, but I was glad I wasn't riding the Ripley LS. I did wish for my TBLTc.

    Again, nice bikes both of them and was really surprised by the Pivot. I was disappointed in the Ripley LS because it just seemed like all mountain/trail riding is not its forte. Like I said, the Ripley Ls frame is work of beauty but she's a lot to handle on the trail.

    The Pivot was more stable compared to the LS and climbed better than the LS but it was not as stable as the TBLTc. For having 116mm of travel it felt more like 125mm of rear travel. It did make me think about the Switchblade and how much nicer it probably eats up the trail. I think the Pivot Switchblade would be a better comparison to the TBLTc as rear travel is the same.

    Next time, I'll be attempting the Switchblade and a wreckoning demo. The Tallboy LTc is such a better bike compared to the two I demoed, IMO. The difference I noticed was climbing ability, really from the Mach 429trail and not so much on the LS.
    Last edited by Rev. 14; 06-19-2017 at 11:14 AM.

  84. #5084
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    I have never tried the following, I do want a demo and I would like to demo a Wreckoning as well.

    What I forgot to mention is the trails I took the Ripley LS and the Mach 429trail on. I took the demo from Absolute bikes in Salida, CO. The Ibis I rode on the Rainbow trail. What I failed to mention now that I think it was the pedal strikes the Ripley LS had. I was not used to that. I lost count after a while and it became a distraction as I was trying to watch my technique so I would not hit anything else. I don't know about you all, but I can't stand continual pedal strikes it really distracts from riding.

    The Ripley seemed to be really fast but no faster than the Tallboy LTc and for being longer and slacker it didn't really seem to make a difference. The Ripley LS was not confidence inspiring on the Rainbow trail as I felt many times it was actually dangerous because it was so twitchy. Some of you might say, well the Rainbow trail isn't exactly a fair place to ride the Ripley LS but I would disagree. It's a 120mm travel bike with a 67.5 HTA. Should be able and provide some stability, especially with 17.5 chainstays it has a decent wheelbase. The 12.8in BB was a problem though, too many pedal strikes! I ran the bike with about 28% sag on 2.35in Nob Nic tires and the suspension just seemed to throw you every time over small to medium stuff. It didn't eat up the small stuff but the small stuff ate it up.

    The Pivot I rode on (formerly) Salsa trail (forgot the new name of it), Cottonwood trail, Sweet dreams, and then Chicken dinner. The BB height on this bike is at 13.19in and the pedal strikes were not happening, which I welcomed. For having a slacker seat tube at 72.8, it climbed better than the Ripley LS, noticeably better. I had this bike running at 25% sag and the suspension was much more forgiving compared to the LS. But compared to the TBLT, it was not as plush especially over small bumps. I know Cottonwood is a much more rockier and technical trail, but I was glad I wasn't riding the Ripley LS. I did wish for my TBLTc.

    Again, nice bikes both of them and was really surprised by the Pivot. I was disappointed in the Ripley LS because it just seemed like all mountain/trail riding is not its forte. Like I said, the Ripley Ls frame is work of beauty but she's a lot to handle on the trail.

    The Pivot was more stable compared to the LS and climbed better than the LS but it was not as stable as the TBLTc. For having 116mm of travel it felt more like 125mm of rear travel. It did make me think about the Switchblade and how much nicer it probably eats up the trail. I think the Pivot Switchblade would be a better comparison to the TBLTc as rear travel is the same.

    Next time, I'll be attempting the Switchblade and a wreckoning demo. The Tallboy LTc is such a better bike compared to the two I demoed, IMO. The difference I noticed was climbing ability, really from the Mach 429trail and not so much on the LS.
    Any comparison to new Niner Jet 9 or Rip?

  85. #5085
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    I don't have any experience with the new Niner's only the old.

    Interesting that you ask this question, when I was in Salida, the two main shops that I saw carried SC, Marin, Specy, Ibis, Yeti, Pivot, and Trek. I was actually surprised not to see Niner.

    I personally don't feel comfortable with Niner's, as a previous Jet 9 Rdo owner, and the frame cracking history. Not to mention they only offer a 5 year warranty on their frames. I got rid of my RDO asap and went back to SC. The Tallboy LTc that I currently have, I purchased as the last of the 2015 model year and it is covered under SC's lifetime warranty.

    One shop next to me in Knoxville can get Niners but they don't carry them in stock or carry demo bikes because they say they just sit around. The Hub, which is in Ashville close to me as well, says they can get Niner as well but I've not seen these in their stock or demo bikes.

  86. #5086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    I don't have any experience with the new Niner's only the old.

    Interesting that you ask this question, when I was in Salida, the two main shops that I saw carried SC, Marin, Specy, Ibis, Yeti, Pivot, and Trek. I was actually surprised not to see Niner.

    I personally don't feel comfortable with Niner's, as a previous Jet 9 Rdo owner, and the frame cracking history. Not to mention they only offer a 5 year warranty on their frames. I got rid of my RDO asap and went back to SC. The Tallboy LTc that I currently have, I purchased as the last of the 2015 model year and it is covered under SC's lifetime warranty.

    One shop next to me in Knoxville can get Niners but they don't carry them in stock or carry demo bikes because they say they just sit around. The Hub, which is in Ashville close to me as well, says they can get Niner as well but I've not seen these in their stock or demo bikes.
    I also find it interesting they are already on sale.

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    Never rode the CCDB Inline, but based on what I've read, the Topaz is much more user serviceable. I'm just tinkering now with the dampening, as I seem to have it dialed in with spacers. The topaz is also lighter than the DB inline (330 vs 350 gm). Given that this thing climbs well and has the climb switch plus the air bladder for better downhill performance were the things that sold me on it vs an inline shock or a heavier piggyback shock. Were you able to compare the DVO diamond to a Pike? Was there much difference?

  88. #5088
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    I've owned a couple of each and I'd take the Diamond every time. More adjustable, zero maintenance, amazing customer service.

  89. #5089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbrockenchain View Post
    I also find it interesting they are already on sale.
    Yeah, Niner has put them on sale a while back. I wonder if this is because they really are not selling?

  90. #5090
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMC2 View Post
    Were you able to compare the DVO diamond to a Pike? Was there much difference?
    My wife has a Pike and I have the Diamond. The Diamond feels much better in every way. Stiffer, smoother, better adjustments, and more responsive. My Diamond feels almost as soft off the top for me (190lbs) as her Pike does (???lbs...much lighter than me).

    Really like what DVO does and how serviceable they are. A person will actually talk to you if you call them!
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  91. #5091
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    I have never tried the following, I do want a demo and I would like to demo a Wreckoning as well. Next time I'm at the Hub in Ashville, I'll give one of these a demo.

    What I forgot to mention is the trails I took the Ripley LS and the Mach 429trail on. I took the demo from Absolute bikes in Salida, CO. The Ibis I rode on the Rainbow trail. What I failed to mention now that I think it was the pedal strikes the Ripley LS had. I was not used to that. I lost count after a while and it became a distraction as I was trying to watch my technique so I would not hit anything else. I don't know about you all, but I can't stand continual pedal strikes it really distracts from riding.

    The Ripley seemed to be really fast but no faster than the Tallboy LTc and for being longer and slacker it didn't really seem to make a difference. The Ripley LS was not confidence inspiring on the Rainbow trail as I felt many times it was actually dangerous because it was so twitchy. Some of you might say, well the Rainbow trail isn't exactly a fair place to ride the Ripley LS but I would disagree. It's a 120mm travel bike with a 67.5 HTA. Should be able and provide some stability, especially with 17.5 chainstays it has a decent wheelbase. The 12.8in BB was a problem though, too many pedal strikes! I ran the bike with about 28% sag on 2.35in Nob Nic tires and the suspension just seemed to throw you every time over small to medium stuff. It didn't eat up the small stuff but the small stuff ate it up.

    The Pivot I rode on (formerly) Salsa trail (forgot the new name of it), Cottonwood trail, Sweet dreams, and then Chicken dinner. The BB height on this bike is at 13.19in and the pedal strikes were not happening, which I welcomed. For having a slacker seat tube at 72.8, it climbed better than the Ripley LS, noticeably better. I had this bike running at 25% sag and the suspension was much more forgiving compared to the LS. But compared to the TBLT, it was not as plush especially over small bumps. I know Cottonwood is a much more rockier and technical trail, but I was glad I wasn't riding the Ripley LS. I did wish for my TBLTc.

    Again, nice bikes both of them and was really surprised by the Pivot. I was disappointed in the Ripley LS because it just seemed like all mountain/trail riding is not its forte. Like I said, the Ripley Ls frame is work of beauty but she's a lot to handle on the trail.

    The Pivot was more stable compared to the LS and climbed better than the LS but it was not as stable as the TBLTc. For having 116mm of travel it felt more like 125mm of rear travel. It did make me think about the Switchblade and how much nicer it probably eats up the trail. I think the Pivot Switchblade would be a better comparison to the TBLTc as rear travel is the same.

    Next time, I'll be attempting the Switchblade and a wreckoning demo. The Tallboy LTc is such a better bike compared to the two I demoed, IMO. The difference I noticed was climbing ability, really from the Mach 429trail and not so much on the LS.
    Been spending time the Hightower 29er with a 150mm fork on the front. Here are some thoughts compared to the TBLTc. The bike seems much faster downhill than the Tallboy LTc, I mean the HT just flies downhill, about as fast the Ibis Ripley LS. However, without all the unstable twitchy behavior the Ripley LS had. I noticed that the TBLTc rear gets jittery when going downhill over good ruts, roots or rock gardens, but the Hightower rear has this issue slightly but nowhere near the way the LTc does and it was very noticeable. It makes for a screaming fast 29er that for the most part eats anything up in its way. I have a feeling a better rear shock would take care of that on the HT. I'm not a fan of the Rockshox rear shock.

    I was pleasantly surprised at the climbing ability. I've read mixed reviews about how the HT climbs, but I found it to climb very good and the suspension is very good on steep climbs. It hooks up traction very well, I didn't find myself spinning out as I have this issue on the LTc at times. The HT I've spend time on was the C version and judging by feel, I think it is about 30lbs and compared to my LTc, which is 26.4 lbs, the extra weight going uphill was a slightly noticeable.

    Longer wheelbase was noticeable when entering into switchbacks on the HT. I'm used to getting into switchbacks and going out of them quick on the LTc but the HT threw me off several times. I would probably have to work on that. Because it is a longer bike, I did find myself leaning more in a forward position. The TBLTc I have set up where I am not so much leaning forward but seated a bit more upright, which helps my neck.

    As fars as agility goes, I find the HT to be quite agile but not impressively more so than the LTc. I actually think, even with longer chainstays, the LTc is pleasantly more of an agile bike going around switchbacks and fast downhill berms and turns. If you are trying to do manuals or wheelies, they seem to come easier on the HT. I can't explain why, I just could manual and wheelie the bike easier than the TBLTc. When jumping the HT, that sucker lives to fly! I could launch it and obtain serious air and did not even notice the four pound difference. I thought that was most fun about the HT. It just begs to be jumped into the air.

    I do see that Rockshox rear shock as a terrible choice, but that not the bikes fault. I would like to ride the HT LTc now to compare it. I think I would like the HT LTc better because the top tube is almost an inch shorter, which would mimic my TBLTc. I think the HT LTc would eat any chatter up on the trail downhill. However, climbing in switchbacks would be problematic or take time to relearn how to do it with a longer wheelbase.

    On the regular hightower, I was not blown away by the 2 degree slack HTA over the TB LTc. It didn't make the bike anymore confidence inspiring, IMHO. All in all, the Hightower is really cool bike that loves to go downhill fast and get into the air with confidence. I did like the Hightower better than the Ripley LS and the Pivot 429 Trail. I think the Ripley LS was a much better fit for me personally though, all these bikes were large and my LTc is a large too.

    After riding the Hightower for a time, I'm really impressed how really good the Tallboy LTc is compared to these modern bikes. Really, a bike ahead of its time that still is great in this longer, slacker geometry trends.

    Planning on a demo with the E Wreckoning on Monday. I have heard so much about this bike that I need to check it out for a proper comparison to the Tallboy LTc. From what everyone says, the Wreckoning climbs better than the HT and descending it is unmatched. I'm just not a fan of the bike's weight. Seems that even an XX1 build with carbon cranks and wheels gets you 29.5 lbs. So it is heavier, but it has 16.9 chainstays, which supposedly gives it a crisp agility but it has a longer wheelbase than the HT. I'll report this back when I ride it. I'll compare it to the Tallboy LTc too.

  92. #5092
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    Fantastic write up! Keep them coming. I need try the new high tower out

  93. #5093
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    Some new "Jewelry" on the LTc today. Diamond up front & Topaz out back. Still love this bike.

  94. #5094
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    Quote Originally Posted by M320 View Post
    Some new "Jewelry" on the LTc today. Diamond up front & Topaz out back. Still love this bike.

    I have the same combo. What travel up front? I have mine at 150mm.

    I'm 180 and use about 205 in the topaz with one negative spacer. Helps with the VPP2 wallow.
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  95. #5095
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I have the same combo. What travel up front? I have mine at 150mm.

    I'm 180 and use about 205 in the topaz with one negative spacer. Helps with the VPP2 wallow.
    Mine is 150mm also. Only one ride so far. Still need to tune. I'm a super Clyde at 260# so I'm going to be stuffing some spacers in there tonight. At 290psi when I climb I'm at like 40-50% sag. So still need to figure that out.

  96. #5096
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    Quote Originally Posted by M320 View Post
    Some new "Jewelry" on the LTc today. Diamond up front & Topaz out back. Still love this bike.
    Nice! It appears you have a WORKS angleset on this beauty as well. Did you run a 1.5 or a 2.0?

  97. #5097
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Nice! It appears you have a WORKS angleset on this beauty as well. Did you run a 1.5 or a 2.0?
    Good observation. I am running a -1 deg works headset.

  98. #5098
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    The nice thing about the works angleset is that it drops the BB and steepens the seat tube for better climbing, how much depends on how slack you get with it. The LTc, it today's standards, has a slack STA @ 72.6, but the works angleset changes that for the better. When I went with a 1.5 works headset the STA steepened and I did not notice any climbing drop off but rather it climbed the same due to a steep STA but descended even better! Luv it!

  99. #5099
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    Quote Originally Posted by M320 View Post
    Good observation. I am running a -1 deg works headset.
    How does it feel in tight switchbacks? I have the same fork so our geometry would be the same. I ride mostly slower technical stuff so a steeper HT may be better.

    I do feel "on" the bike vs the "in" feeling with the Intense Primer and Hightower that I also like.

    In tight downhill switchbacks I get that feeling like the wheel wants to flop and I'm gong to go over the bars on the DH side. Of course thats probably something no bike will completely eliminate, but I'm curious what effect a 1 degree Works would have on slow speed handling.
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  100. #5100
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    Quote Originally Posted by M320 View Post
    Mine is 150mm also. Only one ride so far. Still need to tune. I'm a super Clyde at 260# so I'm going to be stuffing some spacers in there tonight. At 290psi when I climb I'm at like 40-50% sag. So still need to figure that out.
    Bladder at 200PSI, 3 spacers in Postive, and maybe 2 in negative. That should help get sag close to 30% and get rid of the midstroke wallow that can be an issue with this bike.
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