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  1. #1
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    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+

    The first report has appeared, so here's a new thread with the bike's name. Let the discussion commence...

    New Santa Cruz Chameleon spotted in the wild! - BikeRadar

  2. #2
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    thats the bike ive been waiting for. hoping to get mine this summer















    Last edited by nauc; 03-07-2017 at 11:38 AM.

  3. #3
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    Well if I ever break my 2014 Trek Stache I now know what I will replace it with.

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    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  5. #5
    LCW
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    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+

    Yup...this might actually be my next trail bike.

    Although I'm leaning more towards a TB3
    Last edited by LCW; 03-11-2017 at 01:36 PM.

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    Might have to order this frameset... Who wants to buy a 17.5 Stache 5 (Miami)? LOL

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    Will it be available as a frame only?

  8. #8
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    just in case anyone hasn't seen this - 2018 Santa Cruz Chameleon 27.5+ spy photos - Mtbr.com
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  9. #9
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    https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/chameleon has this been hiding in plain sight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gondezee View Post
    https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/chameleon has this been hiding in plain sight?
    Whoops, looks like I wasn't supposed to see that.

  11. #11
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    Cambriabike has them listed for sale.

    Santa-Cruz

    Here is the geometry chart:

    https://system.eu2.netsuite.com/core...f3410&expurl=T


    $1599 for "D" Kit
    $1999 for "R" Kit
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  12. #12
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    $1599-$1999
    small, medium and large available in two different build kits
    Trail hardtail
    • Adjustable Drop-outs
    • 29 or 27.5 Plus wheel options
    • Single speed compatibility
    • Boost rear spacing
    • 67.5 Degree HT Angle

    D Kit
    • Recon Silver 120mm fork on both 29 and 27.5 Plus
    • 1x11 SRAM NX drivetrain (11-42 cassette)
    • SRAM Level Brakes
    • Maxxis Rekon 2.8 Front / Rear

    R1 Kit
    • Fox Rhythm 120mm fork on both 29 and 27.5 Plus
    • 1x11 SRAM NX Drivetrain (XD/10-42 cassette)
    • SRAM Level T Brakes
    • Maxxis Rekon 2.8 Front / Rear

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the info!

    Why is there a frame set for 27.5 plus and 29? Shouldn't they be the same?

    Are they really different? Geometry charts shows the 29 has a 100mm HT in S and M, but it's 90mm for 27.5 plus. What gives?

  14. #14
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    does anyone know yet if it can handle a longer travel fork? is the geometry adjustable with the rear drop outs and a longer fork?

  15. #15
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    how are the SRAM Level brakes? are they at least reliable? i had some Juicy 3 brakes... pita!

  16. #16
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    Well the color looks a lot better in these shots and on CBO. (MTBR color looked very baby puke green)

    I don't get why they put such a slack seat tube on it?

    More reach needs to be accompanied by a steeper seat tube to keep the top tube number in check. They've got an XXL top tube on a XL bike with a Medium head tube length but at least the angle on the head tube is decently slack...? WTH

    Also they already have the Highball 27.5. So they have "tame hardtail" totally covered. The next time they update the molds for the highball 29 they could have added a little extra 27.5+ width clearance and had this bike covered. To call this a Chameleon it should have been ready and waiting to get a 130-140 fork and not end up hanging your ass over your rear tire... (read steeper seat tube angle) OR if not that then how come no rack and extra waterbottle mounts. Why no nut strap, etc. If it's not gonna be all mountain than it would have been cool for it to be set up for backcountry...

    Same thing with the GT Pantera. The name and history is awesome to me. Army green is awesome! But like this it's got some odd geometry choices.

    The great thing with the Chameleon's of old, (I guess not this one OR the one before it), was that you could set it up from freeride/DJ/DS to cross country with the same frame. (and obviously deciding what's important to you and sizing accordingly)


    Still, some black stickers over the purple and it would look good. And maybe I could live with slamming my seat all the way forward...??? OR not over forking it and sizing down to a large BUT then having to run a riser stem with riser bars so I don't OTB!!!

    EDIT/looks like they don't cut the steerer tube? so I guess I would just need to keep 4 inches of steerer and I won't OTB...???

    Would really like to have owned a Chameleon again, had been waiting and waiting for this and had been holding off buying a 27.5+. At least with hardtails you can still afford to try it out to see if you like it without mortgaging your first born...
    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl
    Everytime you ride in mud, god kills a kitten.

  17. #17
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    I hope they eventually offer a carbon version to compete with the Stache 9.

  18. #18
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    Finally on website https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/chameleon

    Sorry if somebody already posted it, but I guess its NOT being labeled a 29+ plus which was mentioned in a article before.

    BTW its crazy that it says the Large is for 5'10" to 6'1'' but the XL is for 6'1'' to 6'6''.

    I dont know but that reach looks crazy long to me.
    2016 Santa Cruz Hightower CC
    2016 GT Grade Carbon

  19. #19
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    No weights listed.

    I calculated the weight based on manufacturer weight listings for each of the parts and it comes in at around 26.5lbs for the D+ build. Does that seem right? Seems lighter than I expected. I realize these numbers can be a fair bit off, so are we talking somewhere in the 27-28lb range for the D+ build?

    Even still, that doesn't seem horrible considering how heavy the NX drivetrain is.

  20. #20
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    That geometry chart doesn't make much sense. I wouldn't put too much stock into it quite yet.

    How the heck does top tube length change by wheelsize, but bottom bracket height stays the same? See? It's a bit funky and might be revised later.

    This bike is amazing though. Great color, great spec. Certainly gives the Kona Honzo/Big Honzo a run for its money.
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sml-2727 View Post
    BTW its crazy that it says the Large is for 5'10" to 6'1'' but the XL is for 6'1'' to 6'6''.

    I dont know but that reach looks crazy long to me.
    I did a little parking lot spin on a new Honzo (size large, 475 reach) and it didn't feel nearly as huge as I expected. Honestly, it didn't feel that much bigger than my regular bike that has a 425 reach. Go figure.

  22. #22
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    NSMB has ridden it.
    https://nsmb.com/articles/2017-santa-cruz-chameleon/

    EDIT - among other things the reviewer has some specific thoughts and recommendations on how to build it up, essentially advocating ordering a frame instead of stock in order to get a longer travel fork. YMMV not valid in all 50 states some restrictions apply do not taunt happy fun ball etc.
    Last edited by tbmaddux; 03-15-2017 at 11:06 AM. Reason: added note about reviewer build suggestions

  23. #23
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    I probably would have gone with this Chameleon over my Honzo AL/DL had the choice been available to me last year around this time.

    I like the Honzo, but the lack of options for tire sizes in the rear is a bummer.

    I considered making the switch to the new Chameleon, but I kind of want to just save money for a while and get a Stinner Tunnel.

  24. #24
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    Honzo AL/DL fits 27.5+ easily. The problem is that it lowers the BB even more, and it's already crazy low. The Big Honzo has a higher BB. I pulled the rear wheel from the Big Honzo and stuffed it into the Honzo AL/DL, (and the Hei Hei 29) and it fits just fine.

    I like that Santa Cruz is incorporating flip chips (Tallboy/Hightower) and dropouts (Chameleon) to compensate for the smaller diameter 27.5+ wheels. I think these provisions will set the standard for these swappable wheelsize bikes.
    Jason
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  25. #25
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    this came off the link posted #22

    Chameleon 'D Kit' : $1599 USD | $2249 CAD | 29lbs 29'er | 29.5lbs 27+
    Chameleon 'R Kit' : $1999 USD | $2749 CAD | 27.7lbs 29'er | 28.6lbs 27+
    Chameleon Frame Only : $749 USD | $1099 CAD | 4.6lbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    No weights listed.

    I calculated the weight based on manufacturer weight listings for each of the parts and it comes in at around 26.5lbs for the D+ build. Does that seem right? Seems lighter than I expected. I realize these numbers can be a fair bit off, so are we talking somewhere in the 27-28lb range for the D+ build?

    Even still, that doesn't seem horrible considering how heavy the NX drivetrain is.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    No weights listed.

    I calculated the weight based on manufacturer weight listings for each of the parts and it comes in at around 26.5lbs for the D+ build. Does that seem right? Seems lighter than I expected. I realize these numbers can be a fair bit off, so are we talking somewhere in the 27-28lb range for the D+ build?

    Even still, that doesn't seem horrible considering how heavy the NX drivetrain is.
    BikeRadar says the Large 29er R1 build weighs 28.4 lbs (without pedals)

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 2017 R1 29 first ride review - specs, weight, price review - BikeRadar USA

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nauc View Post
    BikeRadar says the Large 29er R1 build weighs 28.4 lbs (without pedals)

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 2017 R1 29 first ride review - specs, weight, price review - BikeRadar USA
    You can easily add another pound for the D build with it's Rockshox fork and NX 11-42 cassette vs the R build's Fox fork and 10-42 XD drive GX cassette.

  28. #28
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    wonder how the 27.5+ wheels compare to the 29er wheels, weight wise

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunleavy View Post
    I did a little parking lot spin on a new Honzo (size large, 475 reach) and it didn't feel nearly as huge as I expected. Honestly, it didn't feel that much bigger than my regular bike that has a 425 reach. Go figure.
    Steep seat tube and short stem so your not that much farther away from the bars even though the reach is longer.

    That's why I don't get the geo on the new Chameleon...?

    AND it even says 140mm fork compatibility. They must mean the headtube is strong enough to take it. Not that the geometry of the bike is meant to use one!
    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl
    Everytime you ride in mud, god kills a kitten.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    Honzo AL/DL fits 27.5+ easily. The problem is that it lowers the BB even more, and it's already crazy low. The Big Honzo has a higher BB. I pulled the rear wheel from the Big Honzo and stuffed it into the Honzo AL/DL, (and the Hei Hei 29) and it fits just fine.

    I like that Santa Cruz is incorporating flip chips (Tallboy/Hightower) and dropouts (Chameleon) to compensate for the smaller diameter 27.5+ wheels. I think these provisions will set the standard for these swappable wheelsize bikes.
    Pry why most 27.5Plus Honzo/Process 111 conversions put on longer forks to help raise it back up some. (even the Hightower with the flip chips uses a longer fork to adjust the geo for the plus wheels)

    I still don't think it makes sense the Chameleon says it has the same BB height with both wheel sizes? Maybe if you backed the adjustable drop out all the way out so the chainstay was as long as it could be and since the threads are angled with the chainstay it should lower the BB drop on the frame.

    And then suck the drop out in as far as it could go which would raise the BB drop and then with the smaller outer diameter plus size wheels you might get the same BB height? (however it doesn't seem like the BB drop would change that much...??? BIDK)

    BUT the geo chart says they were both done with the adjustable dropout at the same place...?

    Also, the wheels front to back on the Plus version are the same size, but on the 29er the front is a little bigger. So the geometry measurements would have to be "slightly" different even with super techy drop outs...??? I call BS!

    SO the only way the two versions could have the same geo is if they "cooked the books" and put on 2.2's front and back on the 29er wheels and 3.0's on the plus wheels! (not that I'm sure that even does it, but should be close)
    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl
    Everytime you ride in mud, god kills a kitten.

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    My interpretation is that you need an entirely different dropout for 27.5+ than for 29, not that you just adjust one dropout for the conversion. So, the 27.5+ dropout could raise the chainstays enough to keep the BB height static.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunleavy View Post
    My interpretation is that you need an entirely different dropout for 27.5+ than for 29, not that you just adjust one dropout for the conversion. So, the 27.5+ dropout could raise the chainstays enough to keep the BB height static.
    "The frames use easily swappable wheelsize specific dropouts in order to maintain geometry with both sizes of hoops." From the NSMB article linked above.
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  33. #33
    LCW
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    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+

    Ok so who's ridden one so far?

    (Besides this guy: https://youtu.be/HjaMLm8qes0)

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    "The frames use easily swappable wheelsize specific dropouts in order to maintain geometry with both sizes of hoops." From the NSMB article linked above.
    Yeah, I checked the Santa Cruz website to see how much those dropouts run, but it doesn't appear they have them up there yet. Maybe they just give you both sets with the frame.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunleavy View Post
    Yeah, I checked the Santa Cruz website to see how much those dropouts run, but it doesn't appear they have them up there yet. Maybe they just give you both sets with the frame.
    Not likely....the Highball and older Chameleon came with one set of dropouts....if you wanted the SS dropouts you had to pony up for them.
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  36. #36
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    So I rode 47 mi. round trip to a bike shop in Scottsdale to see the R1 27.5+ Cameleon today. Was a little strange as the Guy (Ricky) who posted a quick look video on Youtube of this bike was the person who helped me. Bike looks nice. They only had a large on the floor but are building up a med next week and was offered a parking lot ride. If it goes well I'll probably take it and if not it's a good excuse for another 47 mi. ride!
    Mole

  37. #37
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    Lovely bike but $749 for the frame only seems pretty steep.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AspiringXCGuy View Post
    Lovely bike but $749 for the frame only seems pretty steep.
    Same price as the Highball Al and the old Chameleon.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
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  39. #39
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    I'm really curious how it compares to steel frames in the same price range (e.g. Nimble 9)

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    Not likely....the Highball and older Chameleon came with one set of dropouts....if you wanted the SS dropouts you had to pony up for them.
    I emailed SC the other day. It comes with the set you order (e.g. 29er geared only, etc); additional drop outs need to be ordered separately. Max tire clearance is 2.5" on 29 and 3.0" on 27.5+.

  41. #41
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    I have a TB3 as my main trail bike, and I also have an old Niner SIR9 that is usually set up as a singlespeed, but I'll sometimes put gears on it. The SIR9 has a been a good bike, but I've gotten used to the more modern geometry of slacker head angles and shorter chainstays, so I've been thinking of getting a new hardtail frame at some point. The new Chameleon looks pretty good, but I have some mixed feelings about it.

    A good thing is the swappable dropouts so I can set the bike up as singlespeed or geared, 29er, or 27.5+. The geometry also looks pretty good -- I like the short chainstays and the head angle is slack but not too slack.

    For bad things, I generally prefer steel or titanium for hardtails and never much liked the feel of aluminum hardtails. The frame also seems heavy for aluminum. It's 4.5 lbs., which is as heavy as my steel SIR9. The seat tube angle also seems a little too slack, but I'd probably fine with sliding my saddle a little more forward on the rails.

    I can get a good deal on the frame, but the problem is that I'd have to also buy a new fork and probably wheelset. I'd also want to buy a dropper post for it. So all that stuff would add up to a lot.

    Most of my friends' SIR9's eventually broke (usually at the rear dropout). Maybe if mine breaks I'll have a good excuse to get a new hardtail frame.

  42. #42
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    Gonna do a custom build with one of these, do 27.5+ and 29er use the same fork? Rockshox looks to sell pike/yari/lyrik as 27.5+/29 but fox seem to have 27.5 specific.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creg View Post
    Gonna do a custom build with one of these, do 27.5+ and 29er use the same fork? Rockshox looks to sell pike/yari/lyrik as 27.5+/29 but fox seem to have 27.5 specific.
    I have a 27.5 plus Fox 34 and use it for a 29 plus setup... Going to it on this frame, 29 and 27.5 plus... Should be fun switching back and forth as needed... Ordered frame with both dropouts...

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn View Post
    . Ordered frame.
    Curious,
    what size frame did you order and what was your eta?

    I ordered a small and it's eta is April 17

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    For bad things, I generally prefer steel or titanium for hardtails and never much liked the feel of aluminum hardtails. The frame also seems heavy for aluminum. It's 4.5 lbs., which is as heavy as my steel SIR9.
    Spend an extra $150 ($999 total) for one of the 2017 boosted Vassago Verhauen frames arriving next week. It has similar updated geometry, can run all the same wheels/tires, and it's a steel frame that weighs the same as the Chameleon.

    Thank me later.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleh0rse View Post
    Spend an extra $150 ($999 total) for one of the 2017 boosted Vassago Verhauen frames arriving next week. It has similar updated geometry, can run all the same wheels/tires, and it's a steel frame that weighs the same as the Chameleon.

    Thank me later.
    Do you have a link to the updated geometry?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by newagebiker View Post
    Do you have a link to the updated geometry?
    Tom (from Vassago) provided me with all the new geo details verbally. If you have any specific questions, I can probably answer them.

    That said, Tom also has an entire website overhaul ready to go live as soon as the 2017 frames arrive -- which should be sometime in the next 1-2 weeks.

    If you have specific questions about the geo, send me a pm and I'll do my best to answer them.

    You can also post your questions in the Vassago thread and I'll see them:
    Where are my Vassago Bretheren???

    (Sorry for the thread hijack!!)

  48. #48
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    I'm also very interested in this frame (the Santa Cruz, that is. I will probably also be very interested in the Vassago when I see the numbers for it.)

    Here are a couple more ride reports for the Chameleon.
    Santa Cruz Chameleon 2017 R1 29 first ride review - specs, weight, price review - BikeRadar USA

    Singletrack Magazine | First Ride: The Chameleon From Santa Cruz Bicycles

    Note that the bikeradar.com report is by the same guy from the youtube video that LCW posted. Now if only I had some money!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuenstock View Post
    Curious,
    what size frame did you order and what was your eta?

    I ordered a small and it's eta is April 17
    SIZE M... ETA was April as well...

  50. #50
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    It looks like a nice bike but every time I buy a HT I realize I hate HT and sell it....lol
    2016 Santa Cruz Hightower CC
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