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Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+

548K views 3K replies 365 participants last post by  laegrim 
#1 ·
#2,879 ·
I don't think I ever posted my Chameleon on here. Started life as a 2019 R+ build but I sold off the SRAM NX Group and all the stock components and then upgraded to full XT, Enve bars, SC Reserve wheels, and carbon Praxis crankset. The only thing lacking was the fork. I just purchased a new Pike Ultimate and it's getting installed at the bike shop now (increased travel from 130 to 140). I'll report back on how it rides once I get it back... Love this thing!

Bicycle Tire Wheel Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Sky
 
#2,881 ·
I don't think I ever posted my Chameleon on here. Started life as a 2019 R+ build but I sold off the SRAM NX Group and all the stock components and then upgraded to full XT, Enve bars, SC Reserve wheels, and carbon Praxis crankset. The only thing lacking was the fork. I just purchased a new Pike Ultimate and it's getting installed at the bike shop now (increased travel from 130 to 140). I'll report back on how it rides once I get it back... Love this thing!
Very nice build.
 
#1,774 ·
Received a warranty replacement slate blue frame. I couldn't be happier with the color and even more so with the warranty experience. Simply fantastic.

Color codes for slate blue (PMS 5483c)/light blue (PMS 551c).

And since the topic of dropout torque specs comes up from time to time, the diagram below has everything you need to know:

Line Font Parallel Black-and-white Diagram
 
#2,842 · (Edited)
Not sure if this has been covered, but I’ve been playing around with different wheel setups on my Chameleon 27+ 130mm fork with the 27+ dropouts

-stock 40mm wheels with 2.8 rekons front and rear bb height 315
-35mm we are one Converts with 2.6 DHF front and Dissector back and rear bb height 315
-35mm convert and 2.6 Dissector back with my wife’s 29” 27mm 2.3 DHF front and bb height 320

I was mostly trying to decide if I’m going 5010 or Bronson MX and I liked the 29 up front for speed, but I think I’d rather have a quicker responding 27.5 for snappy handling. Going to put the 2.6 tires and Converts on the 5010 to make it a little more capable, but I’ll probably go to 2.6s again on the Chameleon. I’ve really enjoyed them over the 2.8s. They‘re a lot more precise and still plenty of grip. I thought I’d lose bb height, but it stayed the same.

Anyone else out there have a Chameleon and think a 5010 is a good addition? I was waiting on the Bronson refresh and then it went MX. Probably look at 5010 with 150 up front.
 
#2,847 ·
Not sure if this has been covered, but I've been playing around with different wheel setups on my Chameleon 27+ 130mm fork with the 27+ dropouts

-stock 40mm wheels with 2.8 rekons front and rear bb height 315
-35mm we are one Converts with 2.6 DHF front and Dissector back and rear bb height 315
-35mm convert and 2.6 Dissector back with my wife's 29" 27mm 2.3 DHF front and bb height 320

I was mostly trying to decide if I'm going 5010 or Bronson MX and I liked the 29 up front for speed, but I think I'd rather have a quicker responding 27.5 for snappy handling. Going to put the 2.6 tires and Converts on the 5010 to make it a little more capable, but I'll probably go to 2.6s again on the Chameleon. I've really enjoyed them over the 2.8s. They're a lot more precise and still plenty of grip. I thought I'd lose bb height, but it stayed the same.

Anyone else out there have a Chameleon and think a 5010 is a good addition? I was waiting on the Bronson refresh and then it went MX. Probably look at 5010 with 150 up front.
Not sure if it is a comparison you are looking for -
I have a 27.5+ 2019 Chameleon.
That was an addition to already having a 2016 FSR Stumpjumper (29). At the time, the SJ and 5010 were similar geometry bicycles.

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but I like the Chameleon and FSR as alternative selection to have. The two bikes sit quite differently, I sit 'on' the Chameleon and I sit 'in' the Stumpy. I am 100% comfortable on both despite how differently I sit within the bike.
The reach and stack are both larger. If I lower the bars on the Chameleon it feels weird, the more upright is better, I guess due to the longer reach. Seems the two should be similar though, longer Chameleon reach but 10mm shorter stem.

Both are fun bike and I ride the trails at about the same speed, up and down.
 
#2,887 ·
Looks cool for sure! Ive found the riding characteristics of 27.5 plus, even at 2.8 to be less than stellar for my liking though, just too "floaty". Beautiful though!
 
#2,889 ·
Bicycle Wheel Tire Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Crankset

Bicycle Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Wheel Tire Crankset


I go back and forth between 29er and 27.5+. I use the 29er rear dropouts either way.

The 29er wheels are some old Roval Traverse SL carbon wheels that I've had on multiple bikes. They were originally non-boost, but I converted them to boost with spacers, endcaps, and re-dishing the rear wheel. They are 30mm internal and very light. Tires are Nobby Nics 29x2.35. I tried a 2.6 on the front for awhile, but I prefer the 2.35.

I always liked the bike as a 29er, but I got a great deal on the 27.5+ wheels and I wanted to try 27.5+ as an experiment. The rims are Whiskey 50W, which have a 44mm internal width, so pretty wide. Hubs are Salsa branded. The wheels came with 27.5x3.0 Ranger tires. These are pretty light and rolled fast, but didn't have enough grip for me, so I installed some 2.8 Rekons, which have been working great.

The bike rides great either way. The 29" wheels/tires are lighter and the steering feels more precise. The 27.5+ provide a little more cushion and I feel like I can push them harder in the corners. I generally prefer the 27.5+ for sketchier fall/winter conditions and the 29 the rest of the time.
 
#2,916 ·
Good luck with the move to 29er. I'm experimenting with the same thing now. The trail bike is a 29er and just hanging there waiting for spring. So I pulled off it's wheels and stuck them on the Chameleon. Only gravel miles on it so far and not in good conditions. It's been a fun experiment so far. The 29ers feel like they are faster but conditions have not been favorable to get any kind of comparison. The 2.25 Nobby Nic on the rear is not a good gravel tire. It really finds a way to dig in and with the soft conditions recently it's been a little slow. I managed to find a 2.6 XR2 in the pile of tires for the front which has been much better.
How it started:
Bicycle Wheel Tire Sky Bicycles--Equipment and supplies


How it ended
Bicycle tire Automotive tire Bicycle part Line Road surface
 
#16 ·
Well the color looks a lot better in these shots and on CBO. (MTBR color looked very baby puke green)

I don't get why they put such a slack seat tube on it?

More reach needs to be accompanied by a steeper seat tube to keep the top tube number in check. They've got an XXL top tube on a XL bike with a Medium head tube length but at least the angle on the head tube is decently slack...? WTH

Also they already have the Highball 27.5. So they have "tame hardtail" totally covered. The next time they update the molds for the highball 29 they could have added a little extra 27.5+ width clearance and had this bike covered. To call this a Chameleon it should have been ready and waiting to get a 130-140 fork and not end up hanging your ass over your rear tire... (read steeper seat tube angle) OR if not that then how come no rack and extra waterbottle mounts. Why no nut strap, etc. If it's not gonna be all mountain than it would have been cool for it to be set up for backcountry...

Same thing with the GT Pantera. The name and history is awesome to me. Army green is awesome! But like this it's got some odd geometry choices.

The great thing with the Chameleon's of old, (I guess not this one OR the one before it), was that you could set it up from freeride/DJ/DS to cross country with the same frame. (and obviously deciding what's important to you and sizing accordingly)


Still, some black stickers over the purple and it would look good. And maybe I could live with slamming my seat all the way forward...??? OR not over forking it and sizing down to a large BUT then having to run a riser stem with riser bars so I don't OTB!!!

EDIT/looks like they don't cut the steerer tube? :) so I guess I would just need to keep 4 inches of steerer and I won't OTB...??? :)

Would really like to have owned a Chameleon again, had been waiting and waiting for this and had been holding off buying a 27.5+. At least with hardtails you can still afford to try it out to see if you like it without mortgaging your first born...
 
#1,020 ·
Really enjoying the Chameleon with the Rekon 2.6s front and rear. I'll swap the rear for a 2.6 Ikon once those are available but I'm fine with the current setup which I'm liking much better than the XR4/XR3 I was originally riding.

Bicycle tire Tire Bicycle frame Wheel Bicycle wheel


I did have to extend the dropouts most of the way to get decent clearance. And then I've had the dropouts slide on me twice now. I removed the tension screws this weekend, cleaned and applied some threadlock which hopefully resolves the situation.
 
#1,022 ·
Really enjoying the Chameleon with the Rekon 2.6s front and rear.

And then I've had the dropouts slide on me twice now. I removed the tension screws this weekend, cleaned and applied some threadlock which hopefully resolves the situation.
Did you buy the Rekons from your LBS, or mail order? Been having trouble finding a mail order supplier.

I started to have a creaking noise coming from my dropouts. I removed them, lightly greased the contact points, thread locked the bolts with 'ole blue' and re-assembled. I couldn't find a torque spec for these new chameleon models, only the 2016 model. Anybody know what they tighten down to?
 
#1,412 ·
I really don't know about the elegant solution, but here's mine (and with 29" too). In front Mudhugger with an extension, in rear tuned Mucky Nutz (I used hair dryer for shaping it). These two are always. When the weather requires, I'll attach the SKS Shockblade to the seat tube. It is not adjusted completely, I just inserted it for the pic.

Works just fine, I use this set up for commuting as well.

PS. If anyone wonders the front fender clearance as it might look a bit tight, I have had several encounters with pine cones what went through without any problems.

Bicycle tire Bicycle frame Tire Wheel Bicycle wheel
 
#1,661 · (Edited)
We also need to take frame size into account (something I'm guilty of not mentioning enough).

Take a look at a small chameleon vs an xl


Small:

415 chainstay - 412 reach

~50/50 balance

The reach is actually shorter than the chainstay. That's almost a 50/50 balance (if we're rounding up)


XL short CS

415 chainstay - 487 reach

reach is 72mm longer than the chainstay. That will change your riding position a lot.

46% cs / 54% reach


XL long CS

430 chainstay - 487 reach

57mm longer reach

47% cs / 53% reach

I find it odd whenever the chainstay measurement is longer than the reach on a bike. this hardly happens for large frame sizes, but it definitely happens for small sizes. Imagine you're on a 440mm chainstay with a 410 reach. (52% of the wheelbase is in the rear center, with 48% on the reach). The rear end is longer than the front end. That makes manuals, bunny hops, corners, wheelies, jumps extremely difficult. However, climbs and straight-line stability will be huge! Think of dragsters or motorcycles built for hill-climbs. They don't need to turn, and they don't want to wheelie, so they extend the chainstays as much as possible.





Every year, a new model comes out that it's "longer" than last year. Is this a good thing? I'm not sure, and we'll eventually reach a tipping point where longer isn't better. For me, I don't need bikes any longer, but talking to my tall friends, they're definitely benefitting from the longer reach.

To me, having a bike with a shorter reach than rear center just doesn't work for my riding style. The leverage required to balance on a rear axle that's way behind you is too great. Increasing the reach is great for taller riders, but I have a feeling most people wouldn't want their chainstay to be longer than their reach measurement.

So for a large rider, increasing cs by 1" may not be a big deal, as the reach is still longer than the rear center. For shorter riders, it only upsets the balance even more. I wonder why more bike companies aren't talking about this. The relationship between reach and rear center is extremely important, and highlights why some small riders should be on 27.5 or even 26" wheels, since you can't make the chainstays shorter than 420mm on a 29er.

Sorry to take this so far off topic, but I think it relates to why I love the chameleon so much: It's the closest hardtail to a 50/50 fc/rc balance for a 415/420mm reach.
 
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