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  1. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    The rear shock is seeing the movement of a single pivot, though.

    I was thinking that things would feel the same, but you'd have a bit more travel at the end, ramping up more at the end.

    There would be a change in the air volume in the shock causing a more linear feel and more movement at the end of the stroke, which should be an increased rising rate at the end.

    If you ran the same amount of pressure as before, you would have a more linear rate with more travel, ramping up at the end?
    The rear shock is not seeing the movement of a true single pivot. That's the purpose of the APP links.

    But thinking about it more, both shocks have the same overall 200mm length, so I think your last statement would be true.

  2. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    both shocks have the same overall 200mm length, so I think your last statement would be true.
    Either way, I think it's worth experimenting with. I was planning on running a Marzocchi 44 fork. The switch version, where you can select-a-height between 150mm and 120mm.

    Thought it might balance things out nicely, with 140mm of rear wheel travel.

    I'm assuming that one can remove or re-install the travel limiting spacer, in a non-perminant fashion?

    Does anyone have experience removing or installing the OEM spacer? I'm not too familiar with the internals of a Fox Float RL rear shock.

  3. #1003
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    Either way, I think it's worth experimenting with. I was planning on running a Marzocchi 44 fork. The switch version, where you can select-a-height between 150mm and 120mm.

    Thought it might balance things out nicely, with 140mm of rear wheel travel.

    I'm assuming that one can remove or re-install the travel limiting spacer, in a non-perminant fashion?

    Does anyone have experience removing or installing the OEM spacer? I'm not too familiar with the internals of a Fox Float RL rear shock.
    Hi, Sriracha. I did the 140mm conversion to my Nickel in late July after riding it for about a month in the stock setup with the RL. I love the change and would not go back. But there are certain things you should consider before doing this.

    1) The RL shock is terrible to begin with, at least mine was. Basically, the low speed comp settings were way too high and so it let too much small bump jitter through. It wasn't worth it to me to try to massage that shock to perform better or attempt a change in stroke. I went on Ebay and shopped until I found a used 200x57 RP23 with the position sensitive Boost Valve, Low velocity tune, and medium rebound tune. The damping settings on this work much better on the Nickel.

    2) That said, my RP23 is not stock either. I rebuilt the thing myself since it came blown already. I've got 200 psi in the IFP but I can't recall off hand what the depth is. If you really want to know, I can look it up. Due to it being blown though, I got it for $100. Main spring pressure right now is 130psi for my weight at 175#. I would guess that a stock RP23 would work pretty well though.

    3) I think a rear tire larger than 2.35 may contact your seat tube. Haven't confirmed it, but my 2.25 Maxxis Crossmark seems to have plenty of room.

    4) Mine is paired with a Revelation XX World cup set at 140mm of travel. It's 67 degree head angle and feels pretty damned nice. The frame rate is actually flat enough that the extra .25" of shock stroke is not adversely affected.

    In short, go for it if you want to make a nice trail monster.
    "Adventure begins where good judgment ends."

  4. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by HHMTB View Post
    Hi, Sriracha. I did the 140mm conversion to my Nickel in late July after riding it for about a month in the stock setup with the RL. I love the change and would not go back. But there are certain things you should consider before doing this.

    1) The RL shock is terrible to begin with, at least mine was. Basically, the low speed comp settings were way too high and so it let too much small bump jitter through. It wasn't worth it to me to try to massage that shock to perform better or attempt a change in stroke. I went on Ebay and shopped until I found a used 200x57 RP23 with the position sensitive Boost Valve, Low velocity tune, and medium rebound tune. The damping settings on this work much better on the Nickel.

    2) That said, my RP23 is not stock either. I rebuilt the thing myself since it came blown already. I've got 200 psi in the IFP but I can't recall off hand what the depth is. If you really want to know, I can look it up. Due to it being blown though, I got it for $100. Main spring pressure right now is 130psi for my weight at 175#. I would guess that a stock RP23 would work pretty well though.

    3) I think a rear tire larger than 2.35 may contact your seat tube. Haven't confirmed it, but my 2.25 Maxxis Crossmark seems to have plenty of room.

    4) Mine is paired with a Revelation XX World cup set at 140mm of travel. It's 67 degree head angle and feels pretty damned nice. The frame rate is actually flat enough that the extra .25" of shock stroke is not adversely affected.

    In short, go for it if you want to make a nice trail monster.
    Could you measure your BB height for me?

  5. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by HHMTB View Post
    In short, go for it if you want to make a nice trail monster.
    Thanks for the info! Yeah, considering the fork I want to run, the Marzocchi 44 switch between 150 and 120mm, 140mm of rear travel just makes sense.

    My plan was to ride the stock Fox Float RL for a while, just to get a base of how the bike feels stock, then send it to Push, where they eliminate the lockout and built-in pedal platform. The tune is something like $160 or so. I was hoping I could tell them to set the shock at 200x57mm, with no pedal platform. Hopefully this will give the bike smooth small bump compliance along with a bit more travel.

    Not looking to make a Butcher, but just want a balanced suspension. I'm sure 125mm feels good on the Nickel, but I certainly am intrigued by the 140mm mod... just weighing the options. Since there is no weigh penalty or geometry change, it seems like a nice option.

  6. #1006
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    I just sent SC an email asking them what they think about this. I'll post the answer.

  7. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I just sent SC an email asking them what they think about this. I'll post the answer.
    btw...an olive Nickel bag of funk is in transit to my residence!

    pretty excited about this bike. it should fit nicely in the stable, right between the 29'er Karate Monkey (with 44) and the Driver 8 (with 888).

    i seriously considered a 29'er frame, but I couldn't find the right frame for the right price. the Nickel was just too good of a deal to pass up...26" wheels it is!

  8. #1008
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    I asked SC whether this was possible a few months before I bought the Nickel and they had no clue if it would work. Of course officially, they can't condone it. But when I heard a few owners had done the 650b thing, I knew it would work so I pulled the trigger.

    The only reason I waited a month to do the conversion was it took that long for the right shock to appear on Ebay. Mine came off some guy's Ellsworth.

    BB height is unchanged from pre-modified geo. Same eye to eye on the shock. Something like 13.65 on mine using the stated fork if I remember right.
    "Adventure begins where good judgment ends."

  9. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by HHMTB View Post
    BB height is unchanged from pre-modified geo. Same eye to eye on the shock. Something like 13.65 on mine using the stated fork if I remember right.
    Yeah, I keep forgetting the I to I is the same.

  10. #1010
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    I considered the Fox RP23, but I read that even in the pro-pedal "off" mode, there still exists a factory set platform, similar to that of the Fox RL.

    I read that the Fox RL, even though it doesn't have pro-pedal adjustments, still has a factory built-in pedal platform. Push advertises on the website, that they get rid of this built-in platform, and that it makes the shock much more active.

    I think this is the mod I will go for....along with the 200x57 140mm mod.

  11. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    I considered the Fox RP23, but I read that even in the pro-pedal "off" mode, there still exists a factory set platform, similar to that of the Fox RL.

    I read that the Fox RL, even though it doesn't have pro-pedal adjustments, still has a factory built-in pedal platform. Push advertises on the website, that they get rid of this built-in platform, and that it makes the shock much more active.

    I think this is the mod I will go for....along with the 200x57 140mm mod.
    Will there be noticeable bob with no plateform?

  12. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Will there be noticeable bob with no plateform?
    possibly, but Santa Cruz advertises their pivot location as being the ideal location for resisting bob yet being small bump compliant.

    theoretical keyboard engineering can only take us so far...one of us has to test it out in the real world.

  13. #1013
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    I'm not sure about the Nickel/Butcher, but I asked Santa Cruz about the Float RL on my Superlight, and they said it does not have set ProPedal...

  14. #1014
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    Having peered inside the Boost Valved RP23 and the pre BV version (pre 2010), I can say that yes, some platform still exists in the BV versions, but it's very small effect. Basically, there's two compression flow paths built into the piston. One goes through the speed sensitive shim stack, the other goes through the position sensitive "Boost Valve" which is the source of the platform damping and bottom out damping.

    With the PP lever open, both circuits flow in parallel with the shim stack being dominant. The Boost Valve has less contribution but does affect the overall shape of the comp damping curve especially with respect to position within the stroke.

    With PP engaged, the shim stack path is spring loaded closed. The PP setting (1, 2, or 3) determines the amount of spring preload. When thus engaged, the shim stack now has resistance to opening AND the BV also has resistance to movement. The net effect is "platform" compression.

    All technical stuff aside, the RP23 is very smooth and supple without PP engaged. Maybe some of that is in my rebuild, but the architecture of it suggests that suppleness is what they were going for. As compared to the pre BV RP23, this one is far more consistent and doesn't give the "trap door" feeling of the older ones.

    However, if you are looking for maximum smoothness/plushness, Fox really isn't the ticket. Marzocchi is. No platform at all, higher volume, lower pressure, more linear spring, but a bit heavier. Though I haven't tried it on the Nickel, the Roco Air shocks have been amazing on my Highline, 5 Spot, Fury, and Sin. Not sure that the extra can diameter will fit on the Nickel though so proceed with caution.

    High forward single pivot bikes usually don't need much compression/platform damping IF you are a smooth pedaller. If you pedal squares or like to stand and hammer, any suspension bike will bob and this one will be no exception.

    @MC Shawn: I find it interesting that you and I gravitated to the same bike after the whole Mountain Cycle meltdown. Nice!
    "Adventure begins where good judgment ends."

  15. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    I'm not sure about the Nickel/Butcher, but I asked Santa Cruz about the Float RL on my Superlight, and they said it does not have set ProPedal...
    I think the factory tune is indicated on the sticker, on the shock. there are different levels of pro pedal, depending on the frame. What does the label say, on your bike?

    I think there are two different numbers, one indicated pedal platform and the other indicating rebound valving? Something like that....

  16. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I just sent SC an email asking them what they think about this. I'll post the answer.
    Here is what Garen said:

    Shawn,

    Im not positive here, but I imagine youd experience impact with the rear tire at the seat tube



    Id take all the air out of your current shock, bottom the bike out and see how close your rear tire gets to the seat tube, and go from there.



    Ride wise, I dont think youd feel a lot of difference; all the changes would happen at the bottom of the travel.

    Let me know if you have any other questions.



    Thanks,


    Then I sent back:

    Yeah, I checked that already and there is plenty of room. That is what I thought being the eye to eye is the same. Would the rate just continue to ramp up at those last 7mm of shaft travel?


    Then he responded:

    Yessir!

  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Ride wise, I dont think youd feel a lot of difference; all the changes would happen at the bottom of the travel.
    .....
    Yessir!
    Thanks for the update! This was what I was hoping would happen. I am certainly more intrigued with the idea, now.

  18. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by HHMTB View Post
    @MC Shawn: I find it interesting that you and I gravitated to the same bike after the whole Mountain Cycle meltdown. Nice!
    I always agree with what you have to say, you seem to always be spot on. So, when you say something, I listen.

    I think the Nickel is a natural progression from the Heckler and the Bullet. Could you imaging a monocoque Mountain Cycle with the suspension and geo of the Nickel? That would be pretty cool! It's something they should have done a long time ago. But, I am very happy with my Nickel, and I'm looking forward to making it a little better. 140mm of travel front and rear would be perfect for me.

  19. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    Thanks for the update! This was what I was hoping would happen. I am certainly more intrigued with the idea, now.
    There is someone around here who did the 140mm shock. Look around for it. I'll also look when I get time. It might be in this thread. I advised against it at the time, but I forgot that the I to I length could be the same. That changes everything.

  20. #1020
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    When I got home I remeasured to see if I still had 7mm of clearance for a longer stroke shock, because now I have different tires. It's kinda hard to get in there and measure, but I'm pretty sure that I have 7mm of room between the tire and the seat tube, not much more though.

    I'm thinking that with an air shock, that it's going to be tough to use the last 1 or 2mm of stroke, because of the air spring, but I'm not positive about that.

    I'm going to ask X-Fusion if they can custom tune a shock to use ony 55 or 56mm of stroke.

  21. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobiwan View Post
    So, to all Nickel owners. Throw away the Fox-Damper - it is crap! I changed it to an Marzocchi Roco Air TST R and the bike feels much better in any situation. Its more sensitive on small bumps and feels bottomless on rocky terrain. By using the TST plattform the rear wheel can nearly be locked.
    I also tried an Rock Shox Monarch Plus RC3 and this one also was way better than the Fox. I just went for MZ because of the Lock-Out.
    And yes, there is no problem of using a 200 x57 mm damper on the frame. The suspension curve is designed for the 7mm more travel which results than in 141mm (if needed).
    So, I originally thought this was a bad idea. For some reason, I had in my mind that the shock was longer and the added 7mm would occur at the beginning of the stroke instead of the end of the stroke. After discussing this with someone else, later in this thread, I began to understand this. So, I apologize for not understanding this earlier.

    I was wondering if you could give us an update on your longer stroke shock. With the tires I have, there is barely enough room for a extra 7mm of shock stroke. I am going to ask X-Fusion if they can tune an O2 shock to have 56mm of shaft travel. That would give my Nickel an even 140mm of travel. And, a 140mm fork would make it perfect for me.

  22. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    When I got home I remeasured to see if I still had 7mm of clearance for a longer stroke shock, because now I have different tires. It's kinda hard to get in there and measure, but I'm pretty sure that I have 7mm of room between the tire and the seat tube, not much more though.
    Are you sure that the distance the wheel travels towards the seat tube is the same as the length of the shock stroke? As you know by adding the 7mm of stroke to the shock you increase the bikes travel by 17mm. I don't know if that means that the tire would now be 17mm closer to the seat tube but it is something to think about.

  23. #1023
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    Awesome to hear that the Nickel frame can accept a 200x57mm shock to increase travel to 142mm. 650b guys DO NOT DO THIS!

  24. #1024
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2 View Post
    Are you sure that the distance the wheel travels towards the seat tube is the same as the length of the shock stroke? As you know by adding the 7mm of stroke to the shock you increase the bikes travel by 17mm. I don't know if that means that the tire would now be 17mm closer to the seat tube but it is something to think about.
    Not sure what you mean. What I did get out of it, is the tires path is up and in. I was measuring straight into the seat tube. So, there should be a little more room then what I measured.

    We need to hear from Tobiwan, and see what tire he is using and how much room there is at full bottom. Maybe he could measure how much room is left from the edge of the rim to the seat tube..

  25. #1025
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    I started a new thread about the longer shock subject:
    200 x 57mm shock on a Nickel = 142mm of travel!

  26. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Not sure what you mean. What I did get out of it, is the tires path is up and in. I was measuring straight into the seat tube. So, there should be a little more room then what I measured.

    We need to hear from Tobiwan, and see what tire he is using and how much room there is at full bottom. Maybe he could measure how much room is left from the edge of the rim to the seat tube..
    I was trying to say the wheel is not moving an addtional 7mm with the longer stroke it is moving an extra 17mm up and in.

  27. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2 View Post
    I was trying to say the wheel is not moving an addtional 7mm with the longer stroke it is moving an extra 17mm up and in.
    That is the case at the wheel axle, not at the forward edge of the wheel. The closer you get to the main pivot the less movement there is. That's how you get 125mm of travel out of a 50mm shock.

  28. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    That is the case at the wheel axle, not at the forward edge of the wheel. The closer you get to the main pivot the less movement there is. That's how you get 125mm of travel out of a 50mm shock.
    So, the wheel axle moves 125mm but other parts of the wheel move less? You must have some really flexy wheels.
    Are you saying that the additional 17mm of travel you get out of the extra 7mm of shock stroke that comes by switching to the 200X57 stock does not put the wheel 17mm closer to the seattube due to the arc the wheel is travling through?

  29. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2 View Post
    So, the wheel axle moves 125mm but other parts of the wheel move less? You must have some really flexy wheels.
    Are you saying that the additional 17mm of travel you get out of the extra 7mm of shock stroke that comes by switching to the 200X57 stock does not put the wheel 17mm closer to the seattube due to the arc the wheel is travling through?
    Not at the front side of the wheel, and the back side of the wheel will move more then 17mm, because that part of the wheel is further away from the pivot.

    Take a yard stick and make zero the pivot. Move the other end of the stick (which is the 36" mark) 12 inches, again with zero as the pivot. Now measure now much movement you get at the 1" mark. Its a lot less then the 12 inches you got at the 36" mark. The same thing happens with a wheel as it moves through its arc, because the front side is closer to the pivot. Plus, the wheel is going to move up and in.

  30. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Not at the front side of the wheel, and the back side of the wheel will move more then 17mm, because that part of the wheel is further away from the pivot.

    Take a yard stick and make zero the pivot. Move the other end of the stick (which is the 36" mark) 12 inches, again with zero as the pivot. Now measure now much movement you get at the 1" mark. Its a lot less then the 12 inches you got at the 36" mark. The same thing happens with a wheel as it moves through its arc, because the front side is closer to the pivot. Plus, the wheel is going to move up and in.
    I think that makes sense. I am interested to see where this goes in your other thread.

  31. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2 View Post
    So, the wheel axle moves 125mm but other parts of the wheel move less? You must have some really flexy wheels.
    Are you saying that the additional 17mm of travel you get out of the extra 7mm of shock stroke that comes by switching to the 200X57 stock does not put the wheel 17mm closer to the seattube due to the arc the wheel is travling through?
    Besides, if this were true , the wheel would hit the seat tube with the stock shock.

  32. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2 View Post
    So, the wheel axle moves 125mm but other parts of the wheel move less? You must have some really flexy wheels.
    Are you saying that the additional 17mm of travel you get out of the extra 7mm of shock stroke that comes by switching to the 200X57 stock does not put the wheel 17mm closer to the seattube due to the arc the wheel is travling through?
    I believe that's what he is saying, yes.

    The axle of the wheel is always going to rotate around the pivot in a circular fashion.

    This means that if the axle is below the pivot (as I think it may be at full extension), pressing down can actually move the wheel away from the seatpost. Now, certainly at full compression the wheel is moving toward the seatpost, but it's probably not moving toward the seatpost nearly as fast as it is moving upward. The 17mm number gets multiplied by some trigonometric function, yielding a number smaller than 17mm (although, it's probably not 7mm precisely).

    If you want to look at it from the shock's point of view (as opposed to the wheel axle), you could take the 7mm number, then modify it accordingly from the leverage of the linkage and angle of the shock. That's a bit more complicated though.

    Incidentally, the wheel moving forward and backward is one of the bigger criticism of single pivot suspensions, as the wheelbase of the bike changes depending on suspension travel. I don't find this to be problematic, personally, or all of my MTBs wouldn't be single pivot.
    '12 Santa Cruz Superlight 29 | '12 Santa Cruz Butcher | '06 Specialized Allez Comp | '81 Schwinn Converted Fixie

  33. #1033
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    [QUOTE=ghost_03;9776047]I believe that's what he is saying, yes.

    The 17mm number gets multiplied by some trigonometric function, yielding a number smaller than 17mm (although, it's probably not 7mm precisely).

    QUOTE]

    Thanks ghost.

    This is what I was really trying to figure out. What formula did MCS use to determine that at full compression a 7mm increase in stroke put the rear wheel 7mm closer to the seattube.

    I had tons of fun 4 - 5yeas ago changing my turner 6 pack to a 5 pack, 5.5 pack and 7pack. I cannot wait to add some travel to my nickel.

  34. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Besides, if this were true , the wheel would hit the seat tube with the stock shock.
    Doood!! MC Shawn, you're making this way more difficult and absurd than it needs to be, buddy. Take out the guesswork and do this:

    Make sure your tires are nice and pumped up. Lean your bike up against something or put it in a wheel stand so the bike is upright. Unbolt your rear shock from either end (I usually pick the side that mounts to the link). Lower the frame slowly until the rear tire contacts the seat tube. Measure eye to eye of the frame to the link. If the number is less than 5.625" (that's 7.875 - 2.25) you're good to go with the longer stroke shock.

    Also consider, 650b wheels are 27.5" diameter or .75" larger radius than standard 26" wheels. If people can put 650b wheels into the stock Nickel without issue, it'll take a VERY large 26" tire to induce contact with the longer stroke mod.
    Last edited by HHMTB; 10-12-2012 at 06:16 PM.
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  35. #1035
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    [QUOTE=noosa2;9776171]
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_03 View Post
    I believe that's what he is saying, yes.

    The 17mm number gets multiplied by some trigonometric function, yielding a number smaller than 17mm (although, it's probably not 7mm precisely).

    QUOTE]

    Thanks ghost.

    This is what I was really trying to figure out. What formula did MCS use to determine that at full compression a 7mm increase in stroke put the rear wheel 7mm closer to the seattube.

    I had tons of fun 4 - 5yeas ago changing my turner 6 pack to a 5 pack, 5.5 pack and 7pack. I cannot wait to add some travel to my nickel.
    I didn't use a formula. Someone has already done this and said that there is room. I PMed him and am hoping that he will add to this thread:

    200 x 57mm shock on a Nickel = 142mm of travel!

    Lets not hijack this thread and take the discussion there.

  36. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by HHMTB View Post
    Doood!! MC Shawn, you're making this way more difficult and absurd than it needs to be, buddy. Take out the guesswork and do this:

    Make sure your tires are nice and pumped up. Lean your bike up against something or put it in a wheel stand so the bike is upright. Unbolt your rear shock from either end (I usually pick the side that mounts to the link). Lower the frame slowly until the rear tire contacts the seat tube. Measure eye to eye of the frame to the link. If the number is less than 5.625" (that's 7.875 - 2.25) you're good to go with the longer stroke shock.

    Also consider, 650b wheels are 27.5" diameter or .75" larger radius than standard 26" wheels. If people can put 650b wheels into the Nickel without issue, it'll take a VERY large 26" tire to induce contact with the longer stroke mod.
    I responded here:
    200 x 57mm shock on a Nickel = 142mm of travel!

  37. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbike View Post
    I wonder 34 talas 160mm will do alot of harm to the Nickel
    I very briefly ran a fox 36 float 160mm on my Nickel (1 ride). I shortened the travel down to 140mm shortly thereafter because the HA was so slack I had real difficulty climbing at slow speeds when seated and I may go lower still. However, I don't know what the a-c is on the fox 34 when set at 160mm. It may be less than a fox 36 at 140mm. I think the Santa Cruz site lists the a-c for the nickel at 509mm plus or minus 10mm. My guess is the frame can structurally handle a larger a-c but the geo starts to get quite altered but then again I am no engineer.

  38. #1038
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    [QUOTE=Mountain Cycle Shawn;9776221]
    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2 View Post

    I didn't use a formula. Someone has already done this and said that there is room. I PMed him and am hoping that he will add to this thread:

    200 x 57mm shock on a Nickel = 142mm of travel!

    Lets not hijack this thread and take the discussion there.
    OK, since I was partially responsible for hijacking this thread I'll do my part to get it back on track. Here is my 34lbs nickel.






  39. #1039
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    ^ You got some ape hangers on that thing!

  40. #1040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    ^ You got some ape hangers on that thing!
    Yeah baby! 2" rise works well for me on this ride

  41. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by DYI01 View Post
    Awesome to hear that the Nickel frame can accept a 200x57mm shock to increase travel to 142mm. 650b guys DO NOT DO THIS!
    Gathering parts....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post your Butchers & Nickels!-nickel2.jpg  


  42. #1042
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    ^^^love the camo green!
    2016 Santa Cruz Hightower 29er
    2016 Chromag Surface 27.5+
    2013 Transition TransAM 29er

  43. #1043
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    ^ Man, that is nice!

  44. #1044
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    Removed the Fox Float RL and replaced it with a Marzocchi Roco LO. The tapered steer tube 44 RC3ti looks like a good match, so far.

    Just under 7 lbs with the Roco Lo. The fork weighed 4.4 lbs with uncut steer tube. Pretty happy with both of those figures, from the local bike shop digital scale.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post your Butchers & Nickels!-nickel3.jpg  

    Post your Butchers & Nickels!-nickel4.jpg  


  45. #1045
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    Removed the Fox Float RL and replaced it with a Marzocchi Roco LO. The tapered steer tube 44 RC3ti looks like a good match, so far.

    Just under 7 lbs with the Roco Lo. The fork weighed 4.4 lbs with uncut steer tube. Pretty happy with both of those figures, from the local bike shop digital scale.
    Is that a 57mm stroke shock?

  46. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Is that a 57mm stroke shock?
    Yes! I forgot to mention, the Roco is a 200mm x 57mm shock, resulting in 140mm of rear travel on the Nickel.

    Matching that up front is 150mm on the 44RC3.

    I still have to lace up the wheels and round up more parts, but the main chassis is here!

  47. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    Yes! I forgot to mention, the Roco is a 200mm x 57mm shock, resulting in 140mm of rear travel on the Nickel.

    Matching that up front is 150mm on the 44RC3.

    I still have to lace up the wheels and round up more parts, but the main chassis is here!
    Let us now how it all fits and works back there.

  48. #1048
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    Its almost here!!!

    My frame is due to arrive tomarrow. At this point I have everything for my build with the exception of the 15mm conversion kit for my Hadley from hub.

    My build as of now will be:

    Frame: White Large, equiped with 2011 Marzocchi ROCO LO 200x57 (I wanted the red shock)
    Fork: Marzocchi RC3 Ti 150mm
    Drivetrain: XT M780 groupo
    Brakes: Hope Evo M4
    Stem: Undecided but I have a 85mm Haven or a 70mm Thompson I will pick depending on feel
    Bars: Easton EC70 50mm tall
    Post: EA70 for now, but will be upgrading to a Gravity Droper soon
    Wheels: Hadley Hubs W/stans Arch EX rims
    Saddle: White WTB Silverado with Ti rails
    Tires: Hans Dampf 2.35 up front, Mountain King on the rear, both are tubeless
    Grips: ODI Troy Lee white with red clamps

    I will post pics as soon as it finish the build and get some dirt on her first

  49. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBforlife View Post
    My frame is due to arrive tomarrow.
    Frame: White Large, equiped with 2011 Marzocchi ROCO LO 200x57 (I wanted the red shock)
    Fork: Marzocchi RC3 Ti 150mm
    Nice! Same suspension setup I went with! I can't wait to finish the build go for a ride.

    Nice choice on the red Roco. I considered going with red, also, but went with black, since I already have red ano highlights on two other bikes.

  50. #1050
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    Red

    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    Nice! Same suspension setup I went with! I can't wait to finish the build go for a ride.

    Nice choice on the red Roco. I considered going with red, also, but went with black, since I already have red ano highlights on two other bikes.
    The color scheme is going to be White Frame, white fork, white seat, white grips with red clamps, red seat collar, the wheels are black with red nipples, Red Chris king head set, red ROCO, everything else is black or carbon.

    My vision of this build is primarily white, secondary Black with red highlights. My goal is not to have too much red.

    Wow what happened to me, I sound like my wife trying to pick a color of paint or something

  51. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBforlife View Post
    TWow what happened to me, I sound like my wife trying to pick a color of paint or something

    Let's face it, bikes are nothing more than man-jewelry.

  52. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    Let's face it, bikes are nothing more than man-jewelry.

    Don't tell the ladies!

  53. #1053
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    I agree to a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    Let's face it, bikes are nothing more than man-jewelry.
    I love a sexy bike.
    Last edited by MTBforlife; 10-17-2012 at 09:31 PM.

  54. #1054
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBforlife View Post
    The color scheme is going to be White Frame, white fork, white seat, white grips with red clamps, red seat collar, the wheels are black with red nipples, Red Chris king head set, red ROCO, everything else is black or carbon.

    My vision of this build is primarily white, secondary Black with red highlights. My goal is not to have too much red.

    Wow what happened to me, I sound like my wife trying to pick a color of paint or something
    Sounds like it is going to be a nice build. I'm going with a 200 X 57 shock too (Probably the Roco TST R air).

    Here's my Nickel's parts list:
    Large 2012 Army Green Nickel with stock Float RL and a 7.785 x 2.25 in the rear future
    2010 Lyrik set at 140mm (may bump up to 150mm)
    Cane Creek 40 headset
    Thomson 70mm Stem
    Answer 720 2" rise "ape hanger" bars
    XT brakes
    XT 10spd rear derailleur
    SLX cranks with ronnie ring
    Thomson post
    Hadley hubs on Stans ZTR Flow's (rear) Mavic 819 front
    Maxxis DHF 2.5 rear, Kenda Nevegal 2.35 front
    Shimano 647 pedals.

    weight is 34lbs



    This pic was taken while I waited for my front derailleur
    Last edited by noosa2; 10-17-2012 at 09:48 PM.

  55. #1055
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBforlife View Post
    The color scheme is going to be White Frame, white fork, white seat, white grips with red clamps, red seat collar, the wheels are black with red nipples, Red Chris king head set, red ROCO, everything else is black or carbon.

    My vision of this build is primarily white, secondary Black with red highlights. My goal is not to have too much red.

    Wow what happened to me, I sound like my wife trying to pick a color of paint or something
    A little like mine!

  56. #1056
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    ^ My plans are, a 200 x 57mm shock and a newer 140 or 150mm Revelation fork. It's going to be a while tough. I did take the Racing Ralph's off and I converted a pair of WTB Mutano Raptor Race tires to ghetto tubeless. And, I installed a pair of red Halo hex skewers. And red ESI grips. I don't really like the grips, so they will be going soon.

  57. #1057
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    Anyone tried butcher with coil shock?

  58. #1058
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenko View Post
    Anyone tried butcher with coil shock?
    I use a CCDB coil on my Butcher. Bike is set up with xfusion vengeance on the front. Feels very balanced for bigger days. Beats out the rp23 for those fast, rough days.

  59. #1059
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    Quote Originally Posted by raycje5 View Post
    I use a CCDB coil on my Butcher. Bike is set up with xfusion vengeance on the front. Feels very balanced for bigger days. Beats out the rp23 for those fast, rough days.
    i was thinking for putting a RC4..and fit a vanilla 160 or talas 150

  60. #1060
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    Finely

    I finely finished building my new Nickle. I am going to take it out tomarrow. I will post a pic tomarrow. As is the bike weighs 29.5#

  61. #1061
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    Here is my 26# Nickel 650b, I recently removed the crank spider and now run an MRP bling ring but this bike is a hoot on the trails, likes to wheelie over debris and pops off small jumps allot easier than my other bikes, fun.




    Hardrock 29er, Niner EMD9, Cannondale F29, Camber Expert, 650b Nickel all gone.
    2014 Giant Anthem 27.5 here.

  62. #1062
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    Here is my new Nickle

    I love this thing. So far I have been out on two rides with her.

    Build includes:

    Large Frame
    Marzocchi 44 RC3 Ti fork
    Roco Lo Shock
    XT M780 drivetrain
    Hope M4 Evo Brakes 183 front, 160 rear
    Easton EA90 wheels
    Haven stem 85mm
    Easton Carbon Bars
    11 year old Easton EA70 seatpost (plan to change to adjustable post)
    WTB Wierfolf tires (tubeless)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post your Butchers & Nickels!-bike-pic.jpg  


  63. #1063
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    Wow!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by madsedan View Post
    Here is my 26# Nickel 650b, I recently removed the crank spider and now run an MRP bling ring but this bike is a hoot on the trails, likes to wheelie over debris and pops off small jumps allot easier than my other bikes, fun.




    How did you get the weight down to 26#? I understand you are going without a front derailleur and rings but no way that weighs 3-4 #s

    I went as light as possible on my build with the exception of my suspension package (prefer performance over weight, only 1/4# weight penalty) and stem, it still came in at 29.5.

    I thought about going 650b but I ultimately decided to go with a 200x57 rear shock instead, boost the travel up to 142mm.

    I believe I read somewhere that somebody would push out a litter of kittens if someone got a Nickle down to 26#

    Nice build

  64. #1064
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    Mine is just under 27 lbs. it's getting lighter tomorrow with a lighter but longer and better fork. The wheels are Spinergy Enduros at 1850 grams per set. I could lose a lot of weight there, but I like these wheels. I could get to 26 lbs with a couple changes.

  65. #1065
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    Nice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Mine is just under 27 lbs. it's getting lighter tomorrow with a lighter but longer and better fork. The wheels are Spinergy Enduros at 1850 grams per set. I could lose a lot of weight there, but I like these wheels. I could get to 26 lbs with a couple changes.
    My wheels are around1500 grams. I guess I could dump the Tubeless tires and put

    TCS or TL ready tires back on it when I first built it, before I took the pic.

    Im thinking about picking up some Nobby Nics but I cant justify $85 for a tire. I do have Weirfolf TCS tires and I bought a Bronson TCS for the rear, that might knock off another 1/2 pound. I could change the stem but I still have not found a stem that is light weight and did not flex that bad. My hope brakes are not the lightest but they only weigh about 1 once more than other models, slight weight penalty for a four piston bad ass brake.

    We definitly went with a similar scheme. I think I posted a pic of my bike already just in case here is a pic of my rig to compare.

    By the way the rear shock in the pic is a 200x57

    What do you think of that saddle? I have scene them around but I do not remember who made them.

    My bike has a WTB Silverado Saddle with Ti rails
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post your Butchers & Nickels!-bike-pic.jpg  


  66. #1066
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    For tires I'm now running WTB Mutano Raptor Races. They are my favorite, a little more aggressive and about the same weight.

    The saddle is a Tioga Spyder. It's the most comfortable saddle that I have owned. In fact a couple weeks ago I rode to work and I forgot to put my padded shorts under my baggies. I didn't even realize it till I went to the bathroom and saw that I had my normal underwear on. Then I thought that, now that I know that I forgot them, I thought for sure my butt would hurt on the way home. But the ride home was all comfy.

  67. #1067
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    Can hope traditional 49.57mm bottom cup fit butcher 1.5 headtube?

  68. #1068
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    Loving my budget built Nickel.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post your Butchers & Nickels!-2012-11-04_13-31-46_653.jpg  


  69. #1069
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    Nickel riders: what PSI are you running in your Float RL? I bottomed out several times last night at 150psi and even 160psi. I am 180lbs geared up.

    Also, my lockout on my brand new Float RL doesn't work. Break in period or faulty? Is the lockout hydraulic or mechanical on this shock?

  70. #1070
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmscheip View Post
    Nickel riders: what PSI are you running in your Float RL? I bottomed out several times last night at 150psi and even 160psi. I am 180lbs geared up.

    Also, my lockout on my brand new Float RL doesn't work. Break in period or faulty? Is the lockout hydraulic or mechanical on this shock?
    I'm at 135psi, 160lbs. That gives me 25% sag. I have to keep adding more air as the shock breaks in. The lockout should work, even when new. I refuse to use it, it's not needed and can only lead to breaking something.

  71. #1071
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    Did some upgrades ready for the warmer weather.


  72. #1072
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    So forgive if it's been mentioned already.... this thread has been running for a long time. Search function wasn't helping much to rule out posting. This seemed like the most logical place to ask rather than starting a new thread.

    Has anyone tried offset shock hardware on the Nickel? (or Butcher) Looking to slacken my Nickel just a liiiitle bit more.

    I bought a cheap(er) headset for the build than I normally would just in case I'd end up anglesetting it in the future. Less dough wasted.

    BUT, I'd rather give the cheaper option of the offset hardware a try before taking the bling $ plunge with the purchase of an Angleset.
    EWR-HE-148-11-4-97
    Microbeer's Better!

  73. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedmann View Post
    i present my Mrs. Cleaver

    you'll notice the hammerschmidts - the stock crank folded at the super d

    just yesterday i made a bash/skid plate out of abs sheet

    Where'd you get your Roskopp Screaming Hand sticker? That size looks good on the downtube. Is it the 3" decal?
    I'm an old guy that used to skate back in the day... (BMX as well)
    So, I may want to add the silver version of that sticker to my Black Nickel!
    EWR-HE-148-11-4-97
    Microbeer's Better!

  74. #1074
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    No actual shots of my Nickel yet, just on the stand with no chain...


    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/sdXwO.jpg" width="75%" height="75%">

  75. #1075
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    At this point I do not know about changing the rocker to change the GEO. . I ran a angleset on a different bike and it creeked and creeked, even with anti-seize.

    I think the geo is perfect as is, but that is rider preference

  76. #1076
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    After searching for months, I finally joined the club. Picked up an 2012 R size L Butcher for a SMOKING deal yesterday. Cant wait to start tinkering with it


    The Butcher is adding some much needed suspension travel to our santa cruz family
    Last edited by ATXZJ; 11-16-2012 at 11:22 PM.

  77. #1077
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    Awesome bike! Congrats!

  78. #1078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoaster View Post
    Has anyone tried offset shock hardware on the Nickel? (or Butcher) Looking to slacken my Nickel just a liiiitle bit more.
    I thought about it but I've just ordered a longer fork for my Butcher. I know a dude in N.C. who's got a super slack Nickel with a 150 fork on it too and I think he's running the Burgtec hardware.

  79. #1079
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    Changed the wheels to Mavic Crossmax ST's. Got rid of the large chain ring and added an MRP S4 Bash guard. Brought weight down to 29.2 Might change brakes to xt's. Avid 5's aren't cutting it
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post your Butchers &amp; Nickels!-photo-13.jpg  

    Last edited by los5; 11-18-2012 at 10:48 PM.

  80. #1080
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidS View Post
    I thought about it but I've just ordered a longer fork for my Butcher. I know a dude in N.C. who's got a super slack Nickel with a 150 fork on it too and I think he's running the Burgtec hardware.
    Im running a 150mm fork on my Nickle and it is working out great

  81. #1081
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBforlife View Post
    Im running a 150mm fork on my Nickle and it is working out great
    The Marzocchi RC3ti, right?

    That's the fork I have for my Nickel. I'm sooo close to completing the bike, but had to depart to the East Coast for Thanksgiving....longest week ever.

  82. #1082
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    Yee haw!!

  83. #1083
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    The Marzocchi RC3ti, right?

    That's the fork I have for my Nickel. I'm sooo close to completing the bike, but had to depart to the East Coast for Thanksgiving....longest week ever.
    That is one nice fork. So far I have been very pleased. In my opinion the fork plus its a-to-c length suits the frame perfectly

  84. #1084
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATXZJ View Post
    The Butcher is adding some much needed suspension travel to our santa cruz family
    Dude.....

    ....we have the same 2 MTBs in the same two colors....

    We must have great taste!

    My gf has an Orbea d'Ella though and not a Juliana (if I'm seeing that correctly).



    '12 Santa Cruz Superlight 29 | '12 Santa Cruz Butcher | '06 Specialized Allez Comp | '81 Schwinn Converted Fixie

  85. #1085
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    Here is my "HucknRoll Special" Nickel that I've been rocking since July out in its natural habitat getting dirty.

    Current parts list:
    Pike 454 coil
    Cane Creek 40 headset
    Sunline V1 65mm Stem
    Sunline V1 OS 745mm x 38mm rise
    XTR Trail brakes
    X9 9spd rear derailleur
    X7 Shifters
    SLX cranks with BBG bashguard
    Cheap seatpost while I'm waiting for a new Reverb to replace the one that self distructed after 4 mo.
    Shimano M540 pedals
    WTB Frequency i23 rims laced to Hope Pro2 Evo hubs - bolt up rear, 20mm front
    Maxxis High Roller 2.35 rear, Maxxis Advantage 2.4 front - running tubeless

    Future Upgrades:
    Lighter fork - while I love the feel of the coil Pike it's a tank at 5lbs... (contemplating a lowered lyrik solo air for the stiffness and would still drop weight, or one of the 34mm stanchion offerings)

    Rear shock upgrade to 200x57mm to match the longer travel front end

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/d_buckley/8210627014/" title="Nickel by D.Buckley, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8202/8210627014_3baa3e00e2_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Nickel"></a>

  86. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Wankel View Post
    Here is my "HucknRoll Special" Nickel that I've been rocking since July out in its natural habitat getting dirty.

    Current parts list:
    Pike 454 coil
    Cane Creek 40 headset
    Sunline V1 65mm Stem
    Sunline V1 OS 745mm x 38mm rise
    XTR Trail brakes
    X9 9spd rear derailleur
    X7 Shifters
    SLX cranks with BBG bashguard
    Cheap seatpost while I'm waiting for a new Reverb to replace the one that self distructed after 4 mo.
    Shimano M540 pedals
    WTB Frequency i23 rims laced to Hope Pro2 Evo hubs - bolt up rear, 20mm front
    Maxxis High Roller 2.35 rear, Maxxis Advantage 2.4 front - running tubeless

    Future Upgrades:
    Lighter fork - while I love the feel of the coil Pike it's a tank at 5lbs... (contemplating a lowered lyrik solo air for the stiffness and would still drop weight, or one of the 34mm stanchion offerings)

    Rear shock upgrade to 200x57mm to match the longer travel front end

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/d_buckley/8210627014/" title="Nickel by D.Buckley, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8202/8210627014_3baa3e00e2_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Nickel"></a>
    Very Nice. I was worried about weight up front as well. This is one of the reasons I went with the 44 RC3 Ti. Even though it is the heaviest 44 Marzocchi makes. The fork comes in at around 4 pounds, which is not bad for a coil, openbath fork. So far the fork is super solid.

    I decided to go without a adjustable post for now. I am tired of blowing them up. I have owned four different brands. I will buy a new one as soon as a company can come up with a design that can last for a couple years without failure
    Last edited by MTBforlife; 11-23-2012 at 09:54 AM.

  87. #1087
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    Heres one of my Butcher

    UPGRADES:
    Industry 9 AM's
    2012 Reverb
    Fox DHX 5.0 Air
    725 Bars
    2.4 Kenda's
    XT brakes soon to come


  88. #1088
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    Love the orange! That looks awesome! Sweet ride!

  89. #1089
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    At first my Nickle was working great but now the rear is flexing terribly. The rear end keeps wanting to follow the terrain versus following the front tire. When I am on off camber terrain the brakes will drag and the rear wheel will not track behind the front wheel. I am thinking about using a bolt on conversion for my rear wheel might stiffin it up a tad.

    The bike is still really nice.

  90. #1090
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBforlife View Post
    At first my Nickle was working great but now the rear is flexing terribly. The rear end keeps wanting to follow the terrain versus following the front tire. When I am on off camber terrain the brakes will drag and the rear wheel will not track behind the front wheel. I am thinking about using a bolt on conversion for my rear wheel might stiffin it up a tad.

    The bike is still really nice.
    There is something wrong, you should fix that first.

  91. #1091
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBforlife View Post
    At first my Nickle was working great but now the rear is flexing terribly. The rear end keeps wanting to follow the terrain versus following the front tire. When I am on off camber terrain the brakes will drag and the rear wheel will not track behind the front wheel. I am thinking about using a bolt on conversion for my rear wheel might stiffin it up a tad.

    The bike is still really nice.
    Definitely not a bad idea to check all of your pivot bolts, etc...or play in the rear hub possibly? It seems strange that it rode well at first and now is riding differently, something doesn't sound right there.

    That said, when I first built my Nickel up it was with a XT wheelset with a standard quick release. The switch to the my current setup with the bolt up hub made a very noticeable difference in stiffness out back.

  92. #1092
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Wankel View Post
    The switch to the my current setup with the bolt up hub made a very noticeable difference in stiffness out back.
    What are you using?

  93. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    What are you using?
    It's in his post

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Wankel
    WTB Frequency i23 rims laced to Hope Pro2 Evo hubs - bolt up rear, 20mm front
    Sounds and looks the bomb. Should be a Nickel HD
    Quote Originally Posted by vBulletin
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  94. #1094
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosquito1 View Post
    Love the orange! That looks awesome! Sweet ride!
    Thanks. I love everything about this bike. No complaints. The new i9's defiantly woke the bike up. Probly helped that I went bolt threw and tubeless at the same time

  95. #1095
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    What are you using?
    Prior to the destickerization an such

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/d_buckley/7978616844/" title="New Hoops.jpg by D.Buckley, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8313/7978616844_04a290b90c_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="New Hoops.jpg"></a>

    Props to Dave at Redstone Cyclery for building up a kick ass wheelset, couldn't be happier with them.

  96. #1096
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    I am running Easton EA90 wheels. The rear wheel is set up for a 12x135/142 but I have a QR conversion in there now. I have a bolt on conversion for the hub, I can try.

    When I yank on the rear wheel I can see the rear drops flex. Hopefully the bolt on conversion will ease the problem.

  97. #1097
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    I can't feel any flex in my Nickel LT (142mm version)


  98. #1098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I can't feel any flex in my Nickel LT (142mm version)

    I can see my drop outs flex. I think I need to give SC a call.

  99. #1099
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    The Nickel Project Begins

    I just picked the small Santa Cruz Nickel frame from backcountry.com for $600.00. I scored on a new 2012 Fox Float 120 RLC FIT from Jenson.com for $349.00. The returned fork had a steerer tube cut to 170mm so I new my choices for short headtubes were limited. The SC Nickel's headtube lenght was 3.9". Any suggestions for a mixed tapered headset? I'm going 2x10!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post your Butchers &amp; Nickels!-frame.jpg  

    Post your Butchers &amp; Nickels!-fox-fork.jpg  


  100. #1100
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    I made a few upgrades to try and shed some weight.

    New wheels, brakes and pedals. Switched to tubeless in the rear.



    New levers, they feel so good.



    I went with the Ice-tech rotors



    Changed cassette from 11-34 to 11-36 to help with the climbs.



    New wheels were a bargain, $300 from competitive cyclists over thanksgiving.



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