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  1. #1
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    Nomad ISX-6 set up thread

    There's most likely not a lot of us, but it is necessary.

    I'm 180lbs without gear. Super aggressive trail and light FR on the Nomad, although I have not worked up the courage to really FR on this shock yet. Anyone out there really trust it?

    Running 145 in the main chamber. 150 in the piggyback. No SPC. 8 clicks of HSC. Maybe 6 on rebound.

    I've played with the IFP adnauseam, and cannot tell a difference between 75 and 150 psi, so I'm stickin' with the higher pressure.

    Most of the time it feels fantastic. There are times (maybe at different altitudes or higher temps) when it feels less plush. Anyone else experience this? Maybe I'm crazy.

    Overall I really like this shock. The bike sits with less sag and still seems as plush as my DHX coil. Can't seem to fully bottom it out though.

    Comments?

  2. #2
    TNC
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    Did you search this forum and the suspension forum?

  3. #3
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    I've read everything in the suspension thread and there's really not much in the 'Cruz Forum. Just thought it'd be nice to have a thread specifically for the Nomad, since it is going to set up differently than many other bikes.

  4. #4
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    Lots of guys are runnning the ISX-6 on the Banshee Rune. Same goes for some of the Intense bikes (like the 6.6? maybe this would be more relevant to you?)

    Maybe try asking in a thread that they'll see? I've ridden a Rune with the ISX and it felt awesome, but it wasn't my bike and I didn't want to mess with the shock...
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  5. #5
    TNC
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    I've had one on an '06 Nomad for about a year now. It's been totally realiable. The tuning options are great. Don't be afraid of using this shock in an aggressive manner. It's what Manitou intended for this shock.

    I'm 185lbs. and it sounds like I ride about like you. My settings are quite different from you. 180 in the main chamber...60 in the piggyback bottomout chamber...fully open on the low/high speed compression...piggyback fully open...don't remember the rebound. Do you know if your ISX is the single or dual air chamber? Mine is a dual with the second "outer" chamber.

  6. #6
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    TNC - have you upped the main chamber pressure on yours lately? I seem to remember you were running 150 or something like that?

    Anyway im 220lbs kitted up and im running 160 in the main, 60 in the piggy. Might try pushing the pressure up a bit.

    Same as TNC - both compression fully open, rebound nearly wide open. Probably a bit too much sag and too 'active' for trail riding. Ive done a bunch of 5ft drops with no issues - nothing bigger as yet however Im no smooth lander!
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  7. #7
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    Mine's a dual chamber. TNC, I can't believe you can run 180. If I up the main to 150, it really stiffens the shock up.

    It is amazing the amount of response I get for only small adjustments in the tuning. Seems like there may be more than one way to achieve a good feel on the shock. Still playing with it, just curious what others were currently doing with it.

  8. #8
    TNC
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    Benz and HR...I can even run 185 at times if I'm toting 2 water bladders on a long, really techinical ride. If I run much less pressure in the main, I don't like the excessive sag. I bought all the tools necessary to work on Manitou rear shocks, and I've been into both my ISX and a 4-Way Air that is mounted on one of my Bullits. I was aware of a few on the forums who warned of running low pressure in the ISX piggyback. Manitou says you can run as low as 50psi in the piggyback if you're careful to maintain that religiously...including when you start changing the piggyback volume with that on-the-fly knob without repressurizing.

    After running a low psi for many months on my ISX, I wanted to change the oil in both my 4-Way Air and ISX. I carefully checked my ISX as I opened it up for any evidence of air that might have migrated into the oil from the air side of the IFP (piggyback piston). I could find no evidence of such, but it's hard to tell upon disassembly. I think you can tell more just from the performance of the shock. Air in the oil yields inconsistent tuning and ride performance...especially in notable temperature changes. My ISX has been dead bang reliable and consistent. What can I say? I'm not convinced by many who have warned about low piggyback pressure...as long as you don't go below 50psi. The piggybacks in most Manitou higher end shocks are almost identical in design except for the SPV/Intrinsic differences. The sealing portion of the piggyback piston (IFP), however, looks identical, so you should be able to run lower pressures as has always been designated by Manitou at 50psi. IFP depths are also set the same whether the shock is SPV or Intrinsic. In fact I think one can experiment with the IFP depth to some degree to induce more of the available travel into the shock if you're having issues getting full stroke. I haven't done so, but it looks do-able.

    After having been into both styles of Manitou piggyback air shocks, this crossed my mind. If air migrates into the damper oil from the IFP chamber, the shock should behave in a given manner. I'd think that the main chamber might need more pressure in an attempt to control compression. But in that case it would also seem to require more compression damping, more bottomout air pressure in the piggyback, and reduced bottomout chamber volume in the piggyback. Air in the damper oil usually allows the shock to move through its compression stroke too easily. Air is easier to compress than oil, and air in the oil keeps the damper from providing the designed resistance. Temperature should also change the way the shock works in a more dramatic way. The shock should also work better in the early part of the ride where the oil and air have had a chance to separate a bit, but then the damping should degrade as the ride continues as the oil and air mix and start to foam a bit as they go through the damper orifices over and over again. All I can say is that my shock has been consistent during all points of operation, and the shock performed the same with the same setup after service. Mine is also setup with a fully open bottomout volume, no high/low compression damping, and low bottomout pressure. I'd think the reverse would be the case with air in the oil.

    Also think about this. Manitou air shocks with SPV use relatively low main chamber pressure because of the overall influence of the SPV pressure in the piggyback. The Intrinsic ISX should need higher main chamber pressure to some degree because the piggyback pressure is mainly only a bottomout tuning element, not an SPV element. It's almost like some of these ISX shocks are operating like an SPV shock.

    It seems odd that this shock should provide such good performance with such diverse settings. I don't have the answer to that. Just about everyone who has used this shock has been really impressed, so I'm not sure what's going on with the different settings.
    Last edited by TNC; 09-16-2008 at 08:48 AM.

  9. #9
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    Cheers for the detailed response TNC - a simple 'yes' would have been fine!

    Joking - I am still stoked with the performance of this shock, recommend it 100%. To be honest I havent played around much trying to tune this shock, its been great at the above settings from day one - although I might try a 10 or so PSI more in the main and see how it goes.

    In my mind shock tuning is specific to a number of individual factors - style, terrain, feel etc... the crazy thing about this shock is how versatile it is across all types of terrain. As Ive mentioned before Ive done 25km trail rides with a short session at the park doing drops on it without any adjustment.

    The only issue I have is that there is no authorised service agent here - TNC is it the type of shock that could be overhauled by my lbs?
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  10. #10
    TNC
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    benz, I guess it depends on the personnel at your LBS. On the Manitou site under the technology tab there are excellent detailed instructions for rebuilding all Manitou rear shocks. They're quite good or I wouldn't have been able to do it, frankly. I've rebuild dirt motor rear shocks before, but in reality I think they're more simple than some of these bicycle shocks. You do have to have about 3 or 4 special tools. The tools were surprisingly affordable through our shop. I rebuilt my 4-Way Air first, and the two shocks have some similarity in construction.

  11. #11
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    I'm on an Intense 6.6 with an ISX-6.
    185 to 190 pounds depending on gear - 190 in the main chamber and 60 in the piggyback. The red thing on the piggyback is in position 1, can't remember the rebound and I've never been able to tell the difference when I've tweaked the small bump adjust thingy.

    Just wanted to add my thumbs up for this shock - I'm totally happy with it.

  12. #12
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    Hi All,

    I've just picked up a Banshee Rune frame with an Evolver ISX6 shock on my on the weekend.

    I've set it up as below:
    Rider weight: 78-79Kg with gear on
    Main Air chamber: 110 psi giving about 30% sag (measuring 185mm eye to eye)
    Low Speed Compression: 1 click off zero
    High Speed Compression: 1-2 click off zero (I think I cant remember exactly)
    Rebound: 6 clicks off fully fast
    Bottom Out: On position 3
    Last knob setting: The dial is on the inside of the Bottom out ring. What does this one do?

    What I cant figure out is, you guys talk of putting pressure in the piggyback, however I only see one schraeder valve on my shock. The Evolver ISX6 that I have looks like the one currently on the Manitou website, http://www.manitoumtb.com/items.asp?...=12&itemid=154 , and what does this setting this do?

    Thanks

  13. #13
    TNC
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    Quote Originally Posted by lzyboy
    Hi All,

    I've just picked up a Banshee Rune frame with an Evolver ISX6 shock on my on the weekend.

    I've set it up as below:
    Rider weight: 78-79Kg with gear on
    Main Air chamber: 110 psi giving about 30% sag (measuring 185mm eye to eye)
    Low Speed Compression: 1 click off zero
    High Speed Compression: 1-2 click off zero (I think I cant remember exactly)
    Rebound: 6 clicks off fully fast
    Bottom Out: On position 3
    Last knob setting: The dial is on the inside of the Bottom out ring. What does this one do?

    What I cant figure out is, you guys talk of putting pressure in the piggyback, however I only see one schraeder valve on my shock. The Evolver ISX6 that I have looks like the one currently on the Manitou website, http://www.manitoumtb.com/items.asp?...=12&itemid=154 , and what does this setting this do?

    Thanks
    The piggyback air chamber valve is sort of camouflaged by a red cap that looks like part of the piggyback volume knob. That may be what you're referring to as a dial on the inside of the bottomout ring...and make darned sure you keep at least 50 psi in that piggyback...realizing that if you have 50 psi in the piggyback at #3 setting, when you turn it toward #1, you increase the volume and thereby drop pressure below 50 psi.

  14. #14
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    Thanks TNC!
    Hehe ... I had this sick feeling that it could have been hiding under that "cap" just as I pressed the "Submit Reply" button.

    But what does this "feature" do and is there a guide on how much "PSI" I should be running in this chamber? Surprisingly the manual has little info on this.

  15. #15
    TNC
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    The pressure can be as low as 50 psi all the way to 175 psi. Since the piggyback on the Intrinsic damped models is more for bottomout, I doubt you'll ever want to exceed that max rating. There are two schools of thought on this shock. Some are running 100-150 psi in the piggyback and less pressure in the main chamber. I'm running less in the piggyback (about 60) and more in the main chamber. Try it either way to find what suits you...just make sure you don't let the piggyback pressure fall below 50 under any circumstance.

  16. #16
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    Ahh... this brings me in line to help understand the rest of this thread. I'll check to see what I've got in the piggyback when I get home from work. I hope that the guys in the shop put some air into that chamber!! Thanks again!

  17. #17
    arc
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    TNC, how hard is it to work on this shock? Does it require any special tools? I'd like to switch to a lighter damping oil, hoping to speed up high speed rebound.

    My shock is 2008, Manitou's website's newest manual is 2007. Do you know of any changes in the shock between 2007 and 2008?

  18. #18
    TNC
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc
    TNC, how hard is it to work on this shock? Does it require any special tools? I'd like to switch to a lighter damping oil, hoping to speed up high speed rebound.

    My shock is 2008, Manitou's website's newest manual is 2007. Do you know of any changes in the shock between 2007 and 2008?
    I know of no changes to the shock at this point. I have the first dual tube model, and the other dual tube versions are the same as far as I know. Yes, it requires at least 4 special tools to work on. The good thing is those tools are basically used to work on every other rear shock...coil or air...in the Manitou lineup. I also rebuilt my 4-Way Air. I'm surprised you need faster rebound. The stock oil is 5wt. Your rebound is too slow even with the dial completely open? How much pressure are you running in the piggyback and main chamber?

    As far as being hard to work on...not really. It does have a lot of o-rings. You need a good bench vise and soft jaws. The online tech manual on the Manitou site was very good.

  19. #19
    emtb.pl
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc
    TNC, how hard is it to work on this shock? Does it require any special tools? I'd like to switch to a lighter damping oil, hoping to speed up high speed rebound.

    My shock is 2008, Manitou's website's newest manual is 2007. Do you know of any changes in the shock between 2007 and 2008?
    I have manitou usa confirmed nothing changed except stickers

  20. #20
    emtb.pl
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    I know of no changes to the shock at this point. I have the first dual tube model, and the other dual tube versions are the same as far as I know. Yes, it requires at least 4 special tools to work on. The good thing is those tools are basically used to work on every other rear shock...coil or air...in the Manitou lineup. I also rebuilt my 4-Way Air. I'm surprised you need faster rebound. The stock oil is 5wt. Your rebound is too slow even with the dial completely open? How much pressure are you running in the piggyback and main chamber?

    As far as being hard to work on...not really. It does have a lot of o-rings. You need a good bench vise and soft jaws. The online tech manual on the Manitou site was very good.
    Ah TNC, after reading all this I get it now why your PM was so dry and short:P
    What's with that dual-tube thing? I can't find any info what type mine is (it's on it's way and will be here around Oct20th)

  21. #21
    TNC
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    Dual air chambers

    Quote Originally Posted by krolik
    Ah TNC, after reading all this I get it now why your PM was so dry and short:P
    What's with that dual-tube thing? I can't find any info what type mine is (it's on it's way and will be here around Oct20th)
    The dual tube refers to an inner and outer air chamber that makes it a type of 2-stage air shock. It appears dependent on stroke position, so as the shock compresses the characteristics of the air spring can change and not be the normally soft mid-stroke and highly progressive end-stroke that is normal for most air shocks. The new Fox RP24 has a similar design with that second funky air chamber at the head of the shock. This is something creative that air shocks should have tried a long time ago to produce a more linear spring action.

  22. #22
    emtb.pl
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    The dual tube refers to an inner and outer air chamber that makes it a type of 2-stage air shock. It appears dependent on stroke position, so as the shock compresses the characteristics of the air spring can change and not be the normally soft mid-stroke and highly progressive end-stroke that is normal for most air shocks. The new Fox RP24 has a similar design with that second funky air chamber at the head of the shock. This is something creative that air shocks should have tried a long time ago to produce a more linear spring action.
    I get it.
    So the evolver comes in two versions??
    How can I determine which one I just purchased? There were no options to choose:/
    Are there any differences in the looks of it?

  23. #23
    TNC
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    Quote Originally Posted by krolik
    I get it.
    So the evolver comes in two versions??
    How can I determine which one I just purchased? There were no options to choose:/
    Are there any differences in the looks of it?
    I haven't looked at the Manitou site for awhile, but there were two choices. I also know that bikerX who posts on mtbr frequently ordered a single tube version because of his bike's suspension design. They do...or at least did...exist.

    Edit: I just looked over on their site. If you look at the 2008 pdf catalog file, you'll see it's still there in two versions. You can physically tell the two apart, as the twin tube has a large silver circlip that is retaining the outer chamber. See it in the pic where the main, large shock body has a silver line where the fat part of the body meets the moving shock shaft. That's the circlip. I haven't actually seen a pic of a single tube version, but it will just be skinnier for the most part.

  24. #24
    emtb.pl
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    I haven't looked at the Manitou site for awhile, but there were two choices. I also know that bikerX who posts on mtbr frequently ordered a single tube version because of his bike's suspension design. They do...or at least did...exist.

    Edit: I just looked over on their site. If you look at the 2008 pdf catalog file, you'll see it's still there in two versions. You can physically tell the two apart, as the twin tube has a large silver circlip that is retaining the outer chamber. See it in the pic where the main, large shock body has a silver line where the fat part of the body meets the moving shock shaft. That's the circlip. I haven't actually seen a pic of a single tube version, but it will just be skinnier for the most part.
    So maybye the single tube version looks simmilar to the ISX4 pictured on the next page

  25. #25
    emtb.pl
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    Or this is single tube version:
    http://content.mtbr.com/TRP_14_340_16crx.aspx

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