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  1. #1
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    Nomad- going more XCish?

    Ive been riding my Nomad for one season (X9AM kit, Marzocchi Z1SL), and its great downhills, but uphills and on technical stuff I find it too light and unpresise up front. I will soon change the fork to a Pike 454 Air with lower AC, but I think I will maybe change the frame for something with steeper angles, a little more XCish.

    So, what do you think of changing it for a 07 Heckler or a 07 Spot? Anyone ridden both the Nomad and the 07 Heckler? As the Heckler is 69 degrees up front instead of the Nomads 67, it will probably be a little quicker in the handling.... And Im willing to give up some of the downhill capabilities for som quicker handling.

  2. #2
    TNC
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    This is no flame, but I find it very interesting that you found the Nomad to be imprecise on front end handling, especially when climbing. Even with a setback seatpost, a 50mm stem, and a 170mm fork, I find mine to be capable of sticking the front end in just about any situation. I just got back from a couple of weeks at Moab, and my riding buddies were even making comments about my increased climbing ability. Believe me...the bike was the difference. I climbed more technical and steeper areas on Sovereign, Porcupine, Slickrock, and others than I've ever done. A combination of chainstay length and other geo numbers make for a bike that does almost everything extremely well.

    If your Nomad has a straight seatpost and any kind of stem approaching a more normal 90mm or so...and only a 6" fork...if I read you correctly...your Nomad should climb like a scalded cat and stick the front tire on any surface. I'm wondering if something is wrong in your setup or possibly your technique? Then again...maybe you are more of a pure XC guy. Personally though, I'd hate to have ridden down some of the trails I just rode with a pure XC setup style of bike. Hey...many folks can ride any bike anywhere, but I'm not that good...LOL!

  3. #3
    bog
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    I'm not a big fan of the climbing ability of the Nomad with a tall fork either. That's why I stick with a travel adjust fork. Even with my XCish bias the bike climbs OK with a 160mm fork but it climbs sooo much better through our steep BC trails when I can kick to 2-Step down to 115mm. I'd be very hesistant to put a Pike on the front because you give up way too much of what the Nomad does the best - rip the downhills! If you can afford it throw a Talas 36 or Lyrik 2-Step on it and you'll be happy as a pig in you know what.

  4. #4
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    the zokes have eta, ya know... get something with that!

  5. #5
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    the zokes have eta, ya know... get something with that!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by trygvecowboy
    Ive been riding my Nomad for one season (X9AM kit, Marzocchi Z1SL), and its great downhills, but uphills and on technical stuff I find it too light and unpresise up front. I will soon change the fork to a Pike 454 Air with lower AC, but I think I will maybe change the frame for something with steeper angles, a little more XCish.

    So, what do you think of changing it for a 07 Heckler or a 07 Spot? Anyone ridden both the Nomad and the 07 Heckler? As the Heckler is 69 degrees up front instead of the Nomads 67, it will probably be a little quicker in the handling.... And Im willing to give up some of the downhill capabilities for som quicker handling.
    How about a Lyrik coil U-turn which should be lower in the lowest setting for climbing or general XC and you still have 160mm travel when you wan to rip downhill

  7. #7
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    Out of interest, which rear shock are you running?

  8. #8
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    I'm mostly with TNC on this. I find the Nomad to be an incredible climber, even very steep stuff and I'm on a Nixon 160mm.

    There is a bit of confusion in what you say, so maybe you can add a bit more info. You start by saying you find the Nomad too light in front when climbing but you end your post by saying you are willing to give up some downhill capabilities for quicker handling.

    Even thought those two things (planted on steep uphill and quick handling) are a bit related, they are not fully coming from the same geometry characteristics. To get a quick handling, not only do you need a steep head angle but you also need a short wheelbase. The Nomad is not long but if you had an XC racer type bike before then I can see why you could find the Nomad slow handling.

    Have you adjusted your position on your bike? If I was you, before changing a very nice frame, the Nomad, I would make sure your not sitting too far back, get a straight seatpost and move your seat more in front on the railings. If you have a very short stem, maybe try a bit longer one. If you have 2" riser bars or many spacers under your stem, try lowering your front a bit. Many times simple adjustements make a big difference.

    Heck, maybe you've done all this and the Nomad is just not for you. Hope you find your way.

    Cheers.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanzaiRider
    I'm mostly with TNC on this. I find the Nomad to be an incredible climber, even very steep stuff and I'm on a Nixon 160mm.

    There is a bit of confusion in what you say, so maybe you can add a bit more info. You start by saying you find the Nomad too light in front when climbing but you end your post by saying you are willing to give up some downhill capabilities for quicker handling.

    Even thought those two things (planted on steep uphill and quick handling) are a bit related, they are not fully coming from the same geometry characteristics. To get a quick handling, not only do you need a steep head angle but you also need a short wheelbase. The Nomad is not long but if you had an XC racer type bike before then I can see why you could find the Nomad slow handling.

    Have you adjusted your position on your bike? If I was you, before changing a very nice frame, the Nomad, I would make sure your not sitting too far back, get a straight seatpost and move your seat more in front on the railings. If you have a very short stem, maybe try a bit longer one. If you have 2" riser bars or many spacers under your stem, try lowering your front a bit. Many times simple adjustements make a big difference.

    Heck, maybe you've done all this and the Nomad is just not for you. Hope you find your way.

    Cheers.
    I'm in the TNC and BanzaiRider camp on this one. My Nomad loves to climb!
    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

    ~~ 951 for Dirt & Roadster for Asphalt ~~

  10. #10
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    Nomad and XC...

    Ok, lets see..... What Im trying to say about sacrificing downhill capabilities for quicker handling/increased climbing performance is as follows:
    With a (quite) long travel fork (my 150mm Z1) the bike is outstanding going downhills. When I dialled the Z1 down to 130mm, the bike was much better on climbs, and was quicker (ie more XCish) but not that stable downhills.

    The set up: Elite inline seatpost (changed from setback), Deus XC 100mm stem (6 degr rise), FSA 330 handlebar, Fox DHX 5.0 coil (600 coil). Ive done 2 rounds after changing to inline seatpost, and the bike felt much better going uphills.

    Another question: Changing to a 110mm stem, will that be totally "wrong"? The inline post moved my butt 16mm forwards, i.e. I need a little longer stem to get the same cockpit length?

    So, I think the conclusion is as follows: I will probably sell the Pike to the guy who is interested if he wants it. Then I think I will go for a Lyrik and stay with my Nomad frame. As you say, many small adjustments will change the bike, and the Lyrik will make it possible to dial it down to a XCish AC running it at 130mm. A little pricey fork, but I think the Nomad frame deserves a good fork....

  11. #11
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    Good job! Ditto, Nomads don't hurt on the ups....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudd
    I'm in the TNC and BanzaiRider camp on this one. My Nomad loves to climb!
    Agreed. Though I do think we have to keep things in context. The Nomad climbs incredibly well for a bike that borders on full freeride status depending on setup. Does it climb as well as my 22lb XC bike? Well, duh.

    I will say that I still haven't gotten my Nomad's front end totally dialed. It wanders a bit on climbs and I'm not sure if I should try a shorter stem or an adjustable fork. Or both. I'm on a 90mm stem and a 66SL that I ride at around 150... I'm not saying it dogs on the climbs. More like it just takes an active pilot and I feel like the front wants to wag a bit more then I'd like. Any thoughts?

    But lord knows I can clean rediculous ups on it!
    - -benja- -

  12. #12
    TNC
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    benja, what rear shock are you running? I was quite annoyed with the DHXA squatting a good deal in its mid-stroke on the Nomad which did tend to slacken the Nomad a fair amount more than normal IMO. Now, you may not be running the DHXA anymore, but rear sag on the Nomad can get pretty bad with the DHXA. I can't keep up with which shocks everyone is running on their Nomads...old age, you know...LOL!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    benja, what rear shock are you running? I was quite annoyed with the DHXA squatting a good deal in its mid-stroke on the Nomad which did tend to slacken the Nomad a fair amount more than normal IMO. Now, you may not be running the DHXA anymore, but rear sag on the Nomad can get pretty bad with the DHXA. I can't keep up with which shocks everyone is running on their Nomads...old age, you know...LOL!
    Man, that's exactly what I was thinking! Ho well, I'm old also so guess we think alike!

    I never had the DHX air but I remember one time my Push FloatR didn't have enough air in it and I didn't realize it until I started a short but steep uphill!!! I think setting up the right sag on the Nomad is even more important then on other design and if the DHX air blows through it's mid stroke then I can understand that it would have a very bad effect on the front end.

  14. #14
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    Still on the DHXA...

    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    benja, what rear shock are you running? I was quite annoyed with the DHXA squatting a good deal in its mid-stroke on the Nomad which did tend to slacken the Nomad a fair amount more than normal IMO. Now, you may not be running the DHXA anymore, but rear sag on the Nomad can get pretty bad with the DHXA. I can't keep up with which shocks everyone is running on their Nomads...old age, you know...LOL!
    Yeah, I'm still on the DHXAir. I'm not crazy about it. Likely going Marzo Rocco soon, and would also still like to put an on-the-fly adjustable fork on it for climbing...
    - -benja- -

  15. #15
    TNC
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    Well, I was wondering about that. I think you'll notice some front end handling sharpness return with a better rear shock. My PUSH'd RC and the Evolver 6 improved my Nomad's handling noticeably...and reduced a good bit of that pedal smack I used to whine about. I still run an '06 66SL, and the climbing without any reduction feature and running the fork at full travel (minimum negative pressure) still yields outstanding front end control.

  16. #16
    TNC
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    LOL! Banz...well wisdom sometimes comes with old age...along with dementia, arthritis, baldness, etc., etc.

  17. #17
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    TNC - which would you say was the better shock, the ISX-6 or a Pushed DHX with Ti spring? I can't decide which to get for my Nomad, I'm still on a DHX-A and it seems to sit further and further into its travel every time I go out!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    ...and reduced a good bit of that pedal smack I used to whine about.
    Whine! I think you are also loosing your memory! This was becoming much more than whining, I'd call it more like an old bachelor in need of attention!

  19. #19
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    I'm not the reference TNC can be and I haven't tried the two you are looking at but I'll tell you my experience in case it helps. If you want very simple but very effective, a Fox FloatR custom tuned by Push is really really nice on the Nomad. I've have several air shock on different bikes and this one is really my best one.

    As far as coil goes, I really like my Rocco WC but it is the only coil shock I've ever had on any bike so I wont start bragging that it is one of the best shock. It performs great but I have to admit that I like my Push Float almost as much, the only area where I prefer the coil Rocco is on fast rocky downhill.

    Quote Originally Posted by datsunman
    TNC - which would you say was the better shock, the ISX-6 or a Pushed DHX with Ti spring? I can't decide which to get for my Nomad, I'm still on a DHX-A and it seems to sit further and further into its travel every time I go out!

  20. #20
    TNC
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    datsun, for an air shock, I can heartily recommend the Evolver 6 for the Nomad. It seems to be an ideal match, and IMO the best air shock going at the moment. While I haven't used a DHX coil on my Nomad, I've used a PUSH'd Fox RC...an excellent setup, but I need them to take out a little bit of rebound compression for perfection.

    I will say this, however, about the DHX coil on a Nomad. I know Darren at PUSH has/had a Nomad with the DHX coil, so I know he will have a very good handle on setting up the DHX coil ideally for the Nomad. Also, it seems everyone on mtbr who's had a PUSH'd DHX coil on their Nomad was totally impressed with the results...and it seems just about everybody else who's had a PUSH'd DHX coil on most any other bike. I think PUSH must have the DHX coil dialed in pretty well for any bike setup. I've always been partial to high quality piggyback air shocks, but until this Evolver 6 came out, there seemed to be a small compromise in their performance as compared to their coil counterparts when it came to really rough abuse in fast, repetitive hits. I've been partial to the Manitou 4-Way Air for aggressive trail riding, but the hairier things got...like fast rock gardens...it wasn't quite up to the performance of my PUSH'd RC or the old 5th Element coil. For less aggressive riding, the 4-Way may have actually been a little better. The Evolver 6, however, seems to do it all from easy to gnarly with equal capability.

  21. #21
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    Thanks guys, you kinda confirmed my thoughts in that they're both good bits of kit and it's probably more a matter of personal taste than anything else.

    I'm tempted to go with the coil, mainly because I've got a coil up front now too, but also because Manitou have just been dropped by their UK distributors. I wonder what that will do for supply etc, I'm sure somebody will start distribution again soon though.

    I'm off to Washington in a couple of weeks for a business trip so I may see if I can pick up a shock while I'm out there. Make the most of these exchange rates while they still last.

  22. #22
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    Ive checked a little around, and I think I will go for an air sprung fork. As Im 110 kgs, I think it will be hard to find firm enough springs. So the two hottest alternatives are 07 TALAS or Lyrik Air 2 step or U-turn. Which of these forks do you recommend, and why? Price is no matter....

  23. #23
    TNC
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    Yeah, that Manitou thing is just a result of the Hayes merger, and all contracts and dealer issues will be reviewed. Bobby Acuna at Manitou said recently that a good deal of reorganization will be occur...for the good he believes...as they make their move to Wisconsin. The good thing...it looks like Bobby and other core staff members will still be there.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by trygvecowboy
    Ive checked a little around, and I think I will go for an air sprung fork. As Im 110 kgs, I think it will be hard to find firm enough springs. So the two hottest alternatives are 07 TALAS or Lyrik Air 2 step or U-turn. Which of these forks do you recommend, and why? Price is no matter....
    I had one of the first 2-Steps and it stuck down on me, I believe they've been fixed now but I'd double check before buying. Initially they felt very good.

    I've now got a U-Turn and really like it. I'm struggling a little with setup but I think that's more to do with a sinking rear (see my other posts in this thread) and the fact I've instantly been able to ride faster.

    Assuming the stuck down issue has been solved on the 2-Step I wouldn't hesitate in recommending either fork.

    I've only ridden a Talas in a 'car park' test so can't really comment on them, however I'll probably get one at some stage, I seem to be going through forks like hot dinners at the moment.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by datsunman
    I had one of the first 2-Steps and it stuck down on me, I believe they've been fixed now but I'd double check before buying. Initially they felt very good.

    I've now got a U-Turn and really like it. I'm struggling a little with setup but I think that's more to do with a sinking rear (see my other posts in this thread) and the fact I've instantly been able to ride faster.

    Assuming the stuck down issue has been solved on the 2-Step I wouldn't hesitate in recommending either fork.

    I've only ridden a Talas in a 'car park' test so can't really comment on them, however I'll probably get one at some stage, I seem to be going through forks like hot dinners at the moment.
    Ive decided to go for the TALAS. In Norway, the importer of Rock Shox has a reputation which is "variable". The importer of Fox has a good reputation. I think both the TALAS and the Lyrik are great forks, but when spending around 1300 USD () I would like to have a dealer I can trust.

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