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  1. #1
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    New Juliana line and new 120mm 27.5 bike

    New women's line that looks sweet! Check it here. I think the most interesting bike is the Furtado. 120mm 27.5 new bike that is like nothing Santa Cruz has. For now?

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    Comparing the geometry of the Juliana Joplin to the Tallboy (with a 120mm fork), and the Furtado to the Blur TR, they are essentially identical. I don't see what makes the frames women-specific. The build kits have some women-specific features like shorter crank arms and smaller diameter handlebars, but the frames (including top tube length) look pretty much the same.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see the Furtado frame (perhaps with different paint colors) sold as a 650b TRc in the near future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    Comparing the geometry of the Juliana Joplin to the Tallboy (with a 120mm fork), and the Furtado to the Blur TR, they are essentially identical. I don't see what makes the frames women-specific. The build kits have some women-specific features like shorter crank arms and smaller diameter handlebars, but the frames (including top tube length) look pretty much the same.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see the Furtado frame (perhaps with different paint colors) sold as a 650b TRc in the near future.
    It also shows that you can now get a what is essentially a Tallboy is a size Small.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised to see the Furtado frame (perhaps with different paint colors) sold as a 650b TRc in the near future.
    I wonder if this 650b TRc is the June 1 surprise?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    Comparing the geometry of the Juliana Joplin to the Tallboy (with a 120mm fork), and the Furtado to the Blur TR, they are essentially identical.
    Any word on whether these bikes were also TWENTY YEARS IN THE MAKING???

    (I kid. SC makes great bikes, and it makes sense they'd use existing frames and geometry in expanding their line. The marketing just makes me chuckle.)

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    That would be my guess. A SC equivalent with 1 or 2 (XL/XXL) additional sizes. Heck, I'd ride a large Primeiro in a heartbeat if they don't offer one. Plus it has ISCG tabs as well!

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    I agree the the folks above -- I'm thinking we will see an SC version of the Primeiro on June 1. At least that is my hope!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheatgerm View Post
    I wonder if this 650b TRc is the June 1 surprise?
    I'm sure it is, but if its not, I'll be rolling on a Juliana I guess . . . . the Primero looks spot on for what I'm looking for. My gut tells me though that there will be an SC branded equivalent.
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    It's not clear whether the Julianas will be available as frame-only, but if SC doesn't offer a Furtado-equivalent bike, I'd love to build up a medium Furtado.

  11. #11
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    On another note, it looks like SC has done some work to stiffen up the back end of the Tallboy.
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    Sigh.

    With all respect to Juliana Furtado, whom I admire... I'm disappointed.

    As far as I can tell, these are existing Santa Cruz frames with different colors, head badge, smaller diameter bars, etc. and kitted out with lower-end components than you would find on the comparable male counterparts. How is this any different from previous incarnations of the "women's-specific" mountain bike?

    The bikes are now available for purchase on Competitive Cyclist: Juliana by Santa Cruz Bicycles - Competitive Cyclist

    This is the big premiere of 4 new bikes! However, there is no mention of it on Santa Cruz's own home page. Why?

    The "high-end" Furtado (a 650B btw - nice!) is being sold with XT componentry which is great - I love Shimano XT & run it on both my mountain bikes. But here's the problem - it's not high-end. If you order a mens' bike, you can get higher-end components than that, and more choices. What if you want SRAM X11, for example?

    And only 125 MM of travel for a trail bike? Sigh. If men's or "Unisex" mountain bikes are built for the stereotypical aggro youthful male, then women's mountain bikes are being built for the stereotypical tentative newbie female who must be walking over every bump on the trail. Neither is the truth - both are a stereotype.

    I guess the main point is: Separate is not equal. Maybe I'm being over-dramatic. We are talking about recreational toys here, not the necessities of life. But why not just offer the Tallboy in a Small? Or offer the Bronson in an XS? Give women the same choices that men have, but offer a couple smaller sizes. Heck, give smaller men the same choices that women have by not calling it "women-specific".
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  13. #13
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    Yes, these are (mostly) existing SC frames and yes, you're being over-dramatic.

    Chances are that you will be able to buy a small Tallboy soon and get it kitted out any way you won't.

    The 125mm model is basically a 650b TRc so it is a new model and will get rolled into the SC lineup as a new model very soon. It is not a travel shortened, lightened Bronson.

    So this Juliana launch serves to offer more options than ever! Be happy for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bog View Post
    Chances are that you will be able to buy a small Tallboy soon and get it kitted out any way you won't.
    It's too late. I already built a 29'er frame from a company that had my size. I really wanted to try the Highball, (was looking for a HT race bike), but it was not small enough. I think the concept of the new Juliana bikes is great, and yes - I am happy that some of the experiments done there will make their way into the Santa Cruz line... someday.

    But still - where are the longer travel women-specific bikes? I have a friend who's very first mountain bike was a Small Pivot Firebird with 170mm travel, which she loved and she progressed phenomenally on - preferring to ride technical trails - the more technical the better. She eventually realized that the Small was too big, and opted for the Mach 5.7c, because it comes in XS. Small women, yes even newbie riders, might progress better on longer travel bikes. Maybe not all of them, but I think that the options need to be there. If you want more women to enjoy mountain biking, sell them a bike that gives them confidence - not a short travel, sketchy, fear-inducing one. That's just my observation. Anyway, back to my real day job... lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    It's too late. I already built a 29'er frame from a company that had my size. I really wanted to try the Highball, (was looking for a HT race bike), but it was not small enough. I think the concept of the new Juliana bikes is great, and yes - I am happy that some of the experiments done there will make their way into the Santa Cruz line... someday.

    But still - where are the longer travel women-specific bikes? I have a friend who's very first mountain bike was a Small Pivot Firebird with 170mm travel, which she loved and she progressed phenomenally on - preferring to ride technical trails - the more technical the better. She eventually realized that the Small was too big, and opted for the Mach 5.7c, because it comes in XS. Small women, yes even newbie riders, might progress better on longer travel bikes. Maybe not all of them, but I think that the options need to be there. If you want more women to enjoy mountain biking, sell them a bike that gives them confidence - not a short travel, sketchy, fear-inducing one. That's just my observation. Anyway, back to my real day job... lol.
    Pivot sizing is pretty weird. Their Small is probably closer to a Santa Cruz medium. For instance, I can comfortably ride Pivot mediums. I can also comfortably ride SC larges and XLs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Sigh.

    With all respect to Juliana Furtado, whom I admire... I'm disappointed.

    As far as I can tell, these are existing Santa Cruz frames with different colors, head badge, smaller diameter bars, etc. and kitted out with lower-end components than you would find on the comparable male counterparts. How is this any different from previous incarnations of the "women's-specific" mountain bike?

    The bikes are now available for purchase on Competitive Cyclist: Juliana by Santa Cruz Bicycles - Competitive Cyclist

    This is the big premiere of 4 new bikes! However, there is no mention of it on Santa Cruz's own home page. Why?

    The "high-end" Furtado (a 650B btw - nice!) is being sold with XT componentry which is great - I love Shimano XT & run it on both my mountain bikes. But here's the problem - it's not high-end. If you order a mens' bike, you can get higher-end components than that, and more choices. What if you want SRAM X11, for example?

    And only 125 MM of travel for a trail bike? Sigh. If men's or "Unisex" mountain bikes are built for the stereotypical aggro youthful male, then women's mountain bikes are being built for the stereotypical tentative newbie female who must be walking over every bump on the trail. Neither is the truth - both are a stereotype.

    I guess the main point is: Separate is not equal. Maybe I'm being over-dramatic. We are talking about recreational toys here, not the necessities of life. But why not just offer the Tallboy in a Small? Or offer the Bronson in an XS? Give women the same choices that men have, but offer a couple smaller sizes. Heck, give smaller men the same choices that women have by not calling it "women-specific".
    My wife refuses to buy or ride anything "women's specific" because she thinks it's lame, for some of the same reasons you describe.

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    Ack! I'm a 5'1" female (28.75" inseam) and I just ordered a small Blur TRc from Competitive Cyclist. I would have loved to have tested the Furtado in a small. I went to an SC demo day and tried to get on the small Bronson, but it was just too big for me (don't want the "clam slam" - the ladies know what I'm talking about). I test rode the Blur TRc instead and loved it.

    However, I do wish there was an XS Bronson that I could have tried - or the Small Furtado. That bike looks awesome. I don't care that it's women's specific - and I definitely don't want pike (though I do really like that orange). I just wish there were more 650b options for short people. I wanted to test ride one before buying the Blur, but I couldn't find one small enough.

    I loved the TRc when I rode it (test rode the Pivot Mach 5.7 too) - just having a twinge of buyers remorse that I didn't wait for this line so I could test it as well. My bike isn't coming until around the second week in June, so that's probably why I'm questioning it. Then again, I guess there will always be a new bike release around the corner....

    But props to SC and Juliana for releasing a line to get more women on bikes that are not all "shrink it and pink it".

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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    And only 125 MM of travel for a trail bike? Sigh.
    Dude 125mm is plenty of travel for a trail bike. It's the RIDER that makes the difference, not interwebs tweeds deciding that 125 isn't enough...

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    Quote Originally Posted by laine View Post
    Ack! I'm a 5'1" female (28.75" inseam) and I just ordered a small Blur TRc from Competitive Cyclist. I would have loved to have tested the Furtado in a small. I went to an SC demo day and tried to get on the small Bronson, but it was just too big for me (don't want the "clam slam" - the ladies know what I'm talking about). I test rode the Blur TRc instead and loved it.

    However, I do wish there was an XS Bronson that I could have tried - or the Small Furtado. That bike looks awesome. I don't care that it's women's specific - and I definitely don't want pike (though I do really like that orange). I just wish there were more 650b options for short people. I wanted to test ride one before buying the Blur, but I couldn't find one small enough.

    I loved the TRc when I rode it (test rode the Pivot Mach 5.7 too) - just having a twinge of buyers remorse that I didn't wait for this line so I could test it as well. My bike isn't coming until around the second week in June, so that's probably why I'm questioning it. Then again, I guess there will always be a new bike release around the corner....

    But props to SC and Juliana for releasing a line to get more women on bikes that are not all "shrink it and pink it".
    Competitive Cyclist has a very generous return policy. You could easily call them and swap it out. I'd go for the bigger wheels, stealth dropper routing and ISCG tabs in a heartbeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post

    But still - where are the longer travel women-specific bikes? I have a friend who's very first mountain bike was a Small Pivot Firebird with 170mm travel, which she loved and she progressed phenomenally on - preferring to ride technical trails - the more technical the better. She eventually realized that the Small was too big, and opted for the Mach 5.7c, because it comes in XS. Small women, yes even newbie riders, might progress better on longer travel bikes.
    So by women's specific you just mean that want smaller frames right? I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum because I'm too tall for most of Santa Cruz's frames unless they come in an XXL (hint - 29ers only). I would love a Bronson but the XL is just too tall. It seems that NOBODY makes a good 150-160mm frame for anyone over 6'4" tall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    But still - where are the longer travel women-specific bikes? them a bike that gives them confidence - not a short travel, sketchy, fear-inducing one. That's just my observation. Anyway, back to my real day job... lol.
    Shredchic,
    The issue I've had fitting my wife on bikes really comes to travel. She's 5'2" tall, and we've gone through a number of bikes.
    The Blur XC fit her well, but it was too short travel for some places we ride that are really rocky. That came after a Blur LT2, but the low leverage ratio didn't work well for her weight (110 lbs).
    So then we went BIG TRAVEL and got a small Nomad, which we still have. But the fork travel is so much that it puts the handlebars up very high compared to her seat height, which makes it hard to climb steep trails - the kind we ride in Downieville and Tahoe.

    Anyway, she's got a Blur TRc and a Nomad now, and she always chooses the TRc, even when its really rough, because the bar height isn't as high, and the lighter frame and bike is more manueverable for her.

    Big travel always comes with high handlebars, which makes fitting difficult for shorter riders.
    here we go again

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    Pretty bummed on the lack of extra small options.

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    looks like they moved away from clamped front derailleurs on the joplin (tallboy) to get the frame down to a small
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Competitive Cyclist has a very generous return policy. You could easily call them and swap it out. I'd go for the bigger wheels, stealth dropper routing and ISCG tabs in a heartbeat.
    It did cross my mind for a moment (Comp Cyclist isn't getting my frame color/size in until the first week in June), but I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money without riding the bike first. I've even never ridden a 27.5 - I've just never found one in my size. And while I'm sure I'd like the Furtado - it really does have almost identical geometry to the TRc - I think I'll be happy with my new ride. Though I do wish it had the stealth dropper routing.

    Also, my new TRc will look pretty freaking awesome with the matte black frame, red spokes/hubs, red headset, and red pedals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laine View Post
    It did cross my mind for a moment (Comp Cyclist isn't getting my frame color/size in until the first week in June), but I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money without riding the bike first. I've even never ridden a 27.5 - I've just never found one in my size. And while I'm sure I'd like the Furtado - it really does have almost identical geometry to the TRc - I think I'll be happy with my new ride. Though I do wish it had the stealth dropper routing.

    Also, my new TRc will look pretty freaking awesome with the matte black frame, red spokes/hubs, red headset, and red pedals.
    I'd contact competitive cyclist and be explicitly clear with them about what you want and what you are looking for. Tell them you are interested in the Juliana and see what they say . . . again, they do have a very generous return policy. Something else to think about is the possibility of putting 650b wheels on the TRc . . . lots have done it and it works very well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Something else to think about is the possibility of putting 650b wheels on the TRc . . . lots have done it and it works very well.
    One of the reasons I got the TRc at Comp Cyclist is because of their awesome customer service and return policy. They actually price matched the build for me from another site.

    But I think I'll stick with the TRc. I really loved demo-ing it, and I think I'll be happy. And I can try 650b wheels on it at some point if I want (though I did buy some sweet wheels).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christina L View Post
    Pretty bummed on the lack of extra small options.
    Keep in mind that SC bikes run a little small. How tall are you and what size top tube are you looking for? Some of the SC smalls are comparable to other brands' XS.
    Last edited by hillharman; 05-28-2013 at 11:10 PM. Reason: spelling and punctuation

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    Quote Originally Posted by bog View Post
    On another note, it looks like SC has done some work to stiffen up the back end of the Tallboy.
    How so mr bog? Thicker seat stays?
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    Nice that there are more women's options - especially carbon options. Can't believe no choices of a 2x10. Unless SC offers a frame only option - can't see paying $5000 for a bike and then have to change the drive train.

    The small Joplin 29er wheel base is 1060mm or 41.7inches - seems pretty short for a 29er FS bike.

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    New Juliana line and new 120mm 27.5 bike

    Big travel always comes with high handlebars, which makes fitting difficult for shorter riders.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, totally understood - that is definitely the case with really long travel - certainly it is in the 170mm range. The Juliana line's max travel is 125mm though - about an inch less than the TRc, and about the amount on your wife's bike that she felt was not enough!
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Big travel always comes with high handlebars, which makes fitting difficult for shorter riders.
    Yes, totally understood - that is definitely the case with really long travel - certainly it is in the 170mm range. The Juliana line's max travel is 125mm though - about an inch less than the TRc, and about the amount on your wife's bike that she felt was not enough![/QUOTE]

    her nomad is 160mm front and rear, and we can't get the bars any lower. The 125mm of her small TRc she's pretty stoked on, seems to be the sweet spot, at least for her. Now she wants to know why she doesn't have enve carbon wheels like me....
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    I was so excited for these bikes to be released but now a bit disappointed that the carbon is so expensive. Any idea the weight difference between the primiero and secundo models? How would the niner jet 9 carbon compare to the Joplin? The Niner is $1,000 less.

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    Christina - I've found that most women's specific bikes are a bit smaller than the equivalent men's size. Women's Small might be more like a unisex XS, depending on the bike. There is a really helpful bike fit calculator on competitivecyclist.com.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Christina - I've found that most women's specific bikes are a bit smaller than the equivalent men's size. Women's Small might be more like a unisex XS, depending on the bike. There is a really helpful bike fit calculator on competitivecyclist.com.
    I'm pretty sure the carbon frames at least will be identical to the equivalent Santa Cruz bikes. I personally think the "women's specific" thing Santa Cruz does is kind of a scam. It's basically different stickers and contact points.
    Last edited by hillharman; 06-01-2013 at 06:38 AM. Reason: weird autocorrect error.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    I'm pretty sure the carbon frames at least will be identical to the equivalent Santa Cruz bikes. I personally think the "women's specific" thing Santa Cruz does is kind of a scam. It's basically different stickers and contact points.
    Agree

    Bought my wife a WSD 2012 juliana before i knew better. We ended up having to change all the contact points as they were no different than the other R kit bikes.

    Lastly, the juliana branded bikes seem pretty spendy for the components you receive. Seems like the smart choice would be to wait until the end of the model year when SC has a ton of leftover small and XS bikes/frames and grab those instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATXZJ View Post
    Agree

    Bought my wife a WSD 2012 juliana before i knew better. We ended up having to change all the contact points as they were no different than the other R kit bikes.

    Lastly, the juliana branded bikes seem pretty spendy for the components you receive. Seems like the smart choice would be to wait until the end of the model year when SC has a ton of leftover small and XS bikes/frames and grab those instead.
    The more of the Juliana marketing I see, the more it makes me cringe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    The more of the Juliana marketing I see, the more it makes me cringe.
    Yup . . . it's destined to fail unless they start doing something drastically different, very quickly. Starting with the builds and pricepoint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Yup . . . it's destined to fail unless they start doing something drastically different, very quickly. Starting with the builds and pricepoint.
    Meanwhile you have Specialized and Giant actually coming out with some cool looking women's specific frames.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Yup . . . it's destined to fail unless they start doing something drastically different, very quickly. Starting with the builds and pricepoint.
    The other side of it is that there's no real financial risk, as it's just decals.

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    yes, was definitely aware Santa Cruz run small. Always had my eye on their smalls which are usually around 21.5. From what I remember the women's line was not much different. I ended up buying an extra small nickel off eBay a week before the announcement evening came out. Couldn't beat the price. I'm 5'2" tall and this will be my smallest bike ever. I think it's under 21". I don't mind the weight of the bike since I've been on a extra small Giant Reign SX for the last two years. that was the smallest long-ish travel bike I could find at a decent price. I know I'll be at the top of the suggested rider size but I think it will be a nice change from the bottom of a suggested rider size for once.

    edit: just checked both websites and a small blur LT has a shorter top tube and smaller suggested rider then a small Furtado. Not much, but still. maybe apples and oranges but just the first two that I picked.

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    I like the concept of the new Juliana bikes but why keep the offerings so limited? The new Solo is exactly the same as the Furtado but has about 10 different build options vs 2 for the Furtado. Do they think that women can't "build" the bike they want to ride? I would rather buy a carbon frame and start with lower end components that I can upgrade over time not the other way around. $5,900 as the only carbon option for the Furtado Seems crazy. It will be interesting to see if the new small Tall Boy is released next...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christina L View Post
    Pretty bummed on the lack of extra small options.
    My girlfriend is 5'1/2" and has been on an XS Blur XC for about 5 years. She's looking to upgrade and we were steered towards this new Juliana line but for a women's specific line, seems they dropped the ball by still not really catering to women her size.
    She's ridden the Pivot 5.7 XS and loved it, not really because it performs well (which it does), but because it actually fits her and she feels comfortable on it.
    Same thing on the Giant Anthem 29er XS, first & only 29" she's ever ridden, really had that aha moment realizing what the 29 could do on the trail.
    Pity, all this hubbub about the Juliana line and it really doesn't fit any different sized women than the SC line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by powpig View Post
    My girlfriend is 5'1/2" and has been on an XS Blur XC for about 5 years. She's looking to upgrade and we were steered towards this new Juliana line but for a women's specific line, seems they dropped the ball by still not really catering to women her size.
    She's ridden the Pivot 5.7 XS and loved it, not really because it performs well (which it does), but because it actually fits her and she feels comfortable on it.
    Same thing on the Giant Anthem 29er XS, first & only 29" she's ever ridden, really had that aha moment realizing what the 29 could do on the trail.
    Pity, all this hubbub about the Juliana line and it really doesn't fit any different sized women than the SC line.

    The new small Tallboy fits riders down to 5'0" according to the fit guide, and considering that SC bikes tend to be sized smaller than claimed....sounds like it shouldn't be a problem.

    My wife is 5'3.5" in a good day, and has been tearing it up on a medium TB. It fits on the big side, but hasn't presented any problems. Really plan to take a good look at the small TB for her.....as long as it still fits 2 waterbottle cages.
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