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  1. #1
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    Hammerschmidt with ISCG Adapter on Nomad 1 - Part Deux

    Couple weeks ago I posted up my Nomad 1 with the Hammerschmidt using a custom ISCG adapter. I let a buddy of mine try it on a ride, and he liked it so much that he decided to try one out on his Nomad 1. Only we decided to see if it could be done with less custom work using an off the shelf adapter with small modifications....

    The adapter we used was the MRP ISCG 03 adapter:
    hammer_iscg_1.JPG

    As with my install, the adapter takes up 2.5mm of BB width, so had to remove 2.5mm of material from the BB shell on the drive side. Nomads come with 73mm BB shell width, so we brought it down to 70.5mm, so that with the MRP adapter, the total width is 73mm:
    hammer_iscg_2.JPG

    Once you cut the BB shell down, and put on the MRP adapter, you can see that the back side of the adapter wants to hit the rear bearing boss in the frame when trying to rotate the adapter clockwise (looking at it straight on from the drive side):
    hammer_iscg_3.JPG

    This is important because when in overdrive mode, the hammerschmidt wants to rotate the ISCG adapter clockwise, and now that the BB shell has been faced down, the adapter won't rotate due to the bearing boss being in the way. The only issue was trying to figure out if the adapter was clocked correctly.

    We installed the hammer's alignment guide and it appeared to be slighly off. It's hard to see where the tape measure is supposed to intersection the arrow on the alignment gauge, so I drew a red arrow on where the tape measure should have overlapped:
    hammer_iscg_4.JPG

    If we decided to use it as is, I think it would work. In fact I think it would put the shifter housing cable in a better spot (closer to the frame, and less likely to get bashed by rocks). The second issue with the incorrect clocking is that the upper chain guide might not be able to rotate enough forward to prevent chain interference during full suspension compression.

    Because he was so intent on having the alignment spot on per Truvativ's spec, we clocked the ISCG adapter where to Truvativ's alignment specs and scribed a cut line on the MRP adapter:
    hammer_iscg_5.JPG

    hammer_iscg_6.JPG

    Then modified the adapter a little:
    hammer_iscg_7.JPG

    After the mod, the ISCG adapter aligned up perfectly with the alignment gauge and there was a nice flat interface between the modified area and the frame:
    hammer_iscg_8.JPG

    Finished install pics:
    hammer_iscg_9.JPG

    hammer_iscg_10.JPG

    Neither of us was sure if there was enough material there on the ISCG adapter to create a proper interference to prevent rotation. But a few parking lot sprints in overdrive mode proved to hold up ok, so we headed out to the trails for a test. So far on one ride, it's holding up great and he LOVES the instant shift!

    Moral of the story?.....

    I think the un-modified MRP adapter would work even without the little cut we made on the back side if you use the 22T chainring with the 24T upper guide and just clock the upper guide as far forward as you can. This means that anyone who has access to a BB shell facer to cut down 2.5mm off the drive side of their BB shell (or get a shop to do it for them), could basically just buy the MRP adapter and run the hammerschmidt.

    But then again, he's only got one trail ride on it - and this setup I believe needs a more testing on it. I'm gonna forward this link to him, so he can update his impressions on the setup himself.


  2. #2
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    Another great post on hammerschmidt install. I had wondered about ISCG adapters and if they could be used without rotating on their own. Very interested in hearing the results after a month or two on the system
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  3. #3
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    Trimming/facing th' bb on the drive side has to change the chain line...right? I'm guessing it isn't an issue due to the Hammy eleminating th' ft derailluer ?????

    School me & set me straight here...
    "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"

  4. #4
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    Same chain line. The amount of width we take off with the facer is added right back on with the ISCG adapter. So the net effect is same BB width, same chainline.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoworks
    Same chain line. The amount of width we take off with the facer is added right back on with the ISCG adapter. So the net effect is same BB width, same chainline.
    Figgered that out after I headed home yesterday.....duh...silly me...

    Guess I jus' needed someone to state the obvious...lmao
    "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"

  6. #6
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    First two rides

    Took the new Hammerschmidt on the second run last night and it worked flawlessly. The shifting is fast and butter smooth. I put a short cage derailleur on the back since the first ride (nice advantage of the Hammer) and now I can shift almost as fast with the rear derailleur. The ISCG adaptor hasn't budged and I put the cranks under some serious strain a few times. Cranks have more dirt on them but no worse for wear. I'll give another update after a few more hard rides.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
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    So someone explain the Hammerschmidtne system to me.

    What is it? wherer does it go? Does it work and how. Will it work on my bike (sc bullit) and do I need it. Most of all is it durrable and light. $$$$$$$$$s?
    THANKS

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by geinsteder
    What is it? wherer does it go? Does it work and how. Will it work on my bike (sc bullit) and do I need it. Most of all is it durrable and light. $$$$$$$$$s?
    THANKS
    Search
    Every single one of your questions has been answered already.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  9. #9
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    Another weekend of riding (mostly downhill) and the ISCG adaptor is still solid. I've worked it pretty hard, hit the cranks a couple times on rocks and it hasn't moved at all. Next weekend is DH in Tahoe so it will be another good test.

    The hammer is a nice addition to the nomad for all mountain/freeride. I love not having to worry about my chain falling off in the rock gardens. And chain slap is a thing of the past.

  10. #10
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    Found out that the bash guard is made of carbon fiber while riding with timight this weekend. Rock shot up from my front tire and pinged the bash delamanting a part of it.

    The weight weenie side of me is partially relieved that I shed 0.5 grams off my 38 pound Nomad.

  11. #11
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    @cosmoworks: may I ask, how did you grind the BB shell? It looks like a non easy task at least if done with "regular" equipment.
    TIA for the answer

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  13. #13
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    thanks timight, I knew about this tool, but selling for around 500$ is a rather expensive "toy" for a 1 time use. I was hoping for something more home-made/creative, but I guess is hard ;-)
    Sting the Monkey!

  14. #14
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    Well, another creative/homemade approach that I thought about was clapming it to my mill and facing it that way. LOL

    I had no desire to screw up on this one and have to figure out "creative" way to FIX my frame. I was lucky as I have a friend that has the tool. After using the tool there is no way I'd attempt this mod without it. If you decide to go for it without the tool just make sure you measure the shell length often and in several places.

  15. #15
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    Just did three days of downhill at Northstar in Tahoe and the adaptor is in perfect condition. Hasn't budged at all. One insight that was gained from all the riding has to do with how much metal you take off of each side of the frames bottom bracket shell. My friend took more material off of the non-drive side of the cranks and his chain makes more noise when riding intense terrain. I only cleaned up the non-drive side and took the remainder of material from the drive side. While my chain still hits the sides of the hammer guides it doesn't make quite as much noise. I love the Hammer and the cheap ISCG mod works great.

  16. #16
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    Hammer on the Nomad

    Cosmoworks, how does the Hammer impact pedaling if at all? SC told me the Hammer essentially will pedal and feel like you are always in granny gear thus exposing more pedal feedback in the VPP. In your opinion is this true?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namrek
    Cosmoworks, how does the Hammer impact pedaling if at all? SC told me the Hammer essentially will pedal and feel like you are always in granny gear thus exposing more pedal feedback in the VPP. In your opinion is this true?
    IMO, in theory they're right. However that being said do I actually feel more VPP feedback in real life? No.

    Obviously VPP feedback is exactly the same on the hammer as a standard crankset when comparing non-overdrive modes to the small chainring. The difference in feel comes into play when the hammer is in overdrive mode. Since the hammer's chainring pulls on a slightly different angle than a true 32-34T middle chainring, it would in theory cause the drivetrain to resist chaingrowth more. Which should translate into more locking up of the suspension while pedaling in the overdrive mode.

    I can tell you that in the 3 days I spent at Northstar riding with timight, I was extensively in the overdrive mode and didn't notice any additional feedback effects over the standard 2-ring setup that I took off. I think you simply don't feel it because the effective gear ratio is high and VPP feedback just isn't large enough to notice like it is in the lowest of granny gears.

    Hope that helps.

  18. #18
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    Hammer feedback

    Thanks for the feeback. Sounds good. Last question...maybe...do you climb on the bike or are you mostly shuttling or riding lifts?

    I really like the idea of the hammer on the Nomad and was thinking of doing this next spring but SC kinda turned me off of the idea. Your thread has re sparked my interest.

    Thanks

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namrek
    Thanks for the feeback. Sounds good. Last question...maybe...do you climb on the bike or are you mostly shuttling or riding lifts?
    Thanks
    My usual practice is to earn my downhills, so typically I do a lot of climbing... so I guess that makes me "all mountain". But when a free lunch (lift or shuttle opportunity) comes along, I take it!

  20. #20
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    That's cool. I'll take a lift when I can get one too. Just trying to figure out if you were climbing on that bike with the Hammer and when climbing you felt more pedal feedback than other times? Thanks for your answers.

  21. #21
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    ^^ Well when I climb, I'm usually in the small ring equivalent up front (non-overdrive). So when I climb, the feedback is exactly the same as it would be with a normal crankset.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoworks
    Found out that the bash guard is made of carbon fiber while riding with timight this weekend. Rock shot up from my front tire and pinged the bash delamanting a part of it.

    The weight weenie side of me is partially relieved that I shed 0.5 grams off my 38 pound Nomad.
    38lbs huh? what have you got on there? just curious, mine usually runs at about 31, but I stick some heavy DH wheels/tires on there for the knar - love the bike though and thanks for all the info on the hammer!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider103
    38lbs huh? what have you got on there? just curious, mine usually runs at about 31, but I stick some heavy DH wheels/tires on there for the knar - love the bike though and thanks for all the info on the hammer!
    Well that's with my heavier DH wheel/tire set. Also the adjustable seatpost, platform pedals, misc stuff adds up quick! Keep in mind that unless your current crankset is stupid heavy, the hammer's gonna add anywhere from 0.5-1.5 pounds to your bike.

  24. #24
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    Nice thing i think that HS for my kona coiler 07 will be compatible?? any sugest??

  25. #25
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    Have no idea if it would work on a coiler. Sorry.

  26. #26
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    New hope for you,best thing for everyone!!We have the adapter!
    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Special...view-2009.html

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit1
    New hope for you,best thing for everyone!!We have the adapter!
    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Special...view-2009.html
    Uhmmm yeah.... read that article again. Only works with the splines on the carbon enduro.

    I took a glance at my friend's Kona, and it looks like your'e out of luck, bud. There's nothing for you to clock the ISCG adapter against to keep it from rotating without making something custom. Then on top of that, it looks like the lower swingarm pivot would get in the way of the ISCG mounting tabs. One way around that would be to use the 83mm BB shell version of the Hammerschmidt and space it out, but again you'd need to build something custom to get it to work and to top it off your chainline will be way off.

  28. #28
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    Eventually most bikes will come with ISCG tabs.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr
    Eventually most bikes will come with ISCG tabs.
    True, but this is great info. I just bought a barely used Nomad 1 frame and I don't plan on replacing it anytime soon. So this mod means a lot for a lot of people.
    I hope you have a big trunk... 'cuz I'm puttin' my bike in it.

  30. #30
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    GENIUS!

    I just so happen to have one of those ISCG old adapters in my parts drawer.

    I heard rumors of Truvativ coming out with new version of Hammerschmidt not needing ISCG tabs for installation.
    Anyone have updates on this?
    Last edited by Mudd; 12-09-2009 at 02:03 PM.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudd

    I heard rumors of Truvativ coming out with new version of Hammerschmidt not needing ISCG tabs for installation.
    Anyone have updates on this?
    I actually called and spoke to the folks at TruVative and asked that exact question 2 months ago. Their answer was a definitive "NO"! Granted, things may (and hopefully will) change as I'm part of the "no ISCG tabs" crew with my Felt Redemption and would love to upgrade. Though, I'd definitely consider the upgrade outlined in this thread as it really appears doable.

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    Awesome two articles, thanks for the ingenuity!!

    What about using a longer bolt on the bottom ISCG tab and adapting a nut on the end to clock correctly? I think this would create the needed inteference to keep the adapter from rotating, and I wouldn't have to take 2.5mm off my BB shell. This would require an 83mm BB but I'm a little nervous about the finality of that much material being removed.

    Thoughts? This might be a way to adapt to other bikes as well. Not as pretty but maybe effective...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namrek
    Thanks for the feeback. Sounds good. Last question...maybe...do you climb on the bike or are you mostly shuttling or riding lifts?

    I really like the idea of the hammer on the Nomad and was thinking of doing this next spring but SC kinda turned me off of the idea. Your thread has re sparked my interest.

    Thanks
    Hey Namrek, I ride with three mates who all have the new mk 2 Nomad with the hammerschmidt mounted. Big hitter bikes designed to take big drops, however they grind their way to the top of all tracks. All their feedback is very positive and they love the setup! I'm so considering switching over and I do a lot more xc on mine! I think its certainly the way of the future!
    "Though my life is changing fast,
    My roots are planted in the past,
    Who I am, is who I want to be
    "

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve 27
    Awesome two articles, thanks for the ingenuity!!

    What about using a longer bolt on the bottom ISCG tab and adapting a nut on the end to clock correctly? I think this would create the needed inteference to keep the adapter from rotating, and I wouldn't have to take 2.5mm off my BB shell. This would require an 83mm BB but I'm a little nervous about the finality of that much material being removed.

    Thoughts? This might be a way to adapt to other bikes as well. Not as pretty but maybe effective...
    I agree with you Steve.
    Been looking at other bikes as well for this mod; (VP-Frees among them).
    Also, I too would be turned off by removing 2.5mm off my BB shell.
    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve 27
    Awesome two articles, thanks for the ingenuity!!

    What about using a longer bolt on the bottom ISCG tab and adapting a nut on the end to clock correctly? I think this would create the needed inteference to keep the adapter from rotating, and I wouldn't have to take 2.5mm off my BB shell. This would require an 83mm BB but I'm a little nervous about the finality of that much material being removed.

    Thoughts? This might be a way to adapt to other bikes as well. Not as pretty but maybe effective...
    I don't see any reason a well thought-out modified nut and long bolt wouldn't work. If you have the room to face off 2.5mm off the BB shell on the drive side, then you can do so without too much regret, since you can always convert back to the stock width by adding a standard 2.5mm BB spacer.

    Going to 83mm shell BB would keep you from having to face off the 2.5mm off the drive side, but would have two negative side-effects: moves the chainline to the right by 2.5mm (might be a non-issue), and causes your left crank move out 7.5mm (assuming you add the additional spacing to the left side).

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by David-K
    I actually called and spoke to the folks at TruVative and asked that exact question 2 months ago. Their answer was a definitive "NO"! Granted, things may (and hopefully will) change as I'm part of the "no ISCG tabs" crew with my Felt Redemption and would love to upgrade. Though, I'd definitely consider the upgrade outlined in this thread as it really appears doable.
    ISCG is the cleanest way to do it. I'm guessing the reason they don't want to venture out to non-ISCG bikes is because (as kntr stated) most bikes for this application will most likely come with the tabs in the the future.

    To make a version that works without ISCG tabs would require a mechanism to lock Hammerschmidt's sungear (in overdrive) to something that can't rotate like an arm of some sort (similar to the Schlump drive). And with bike downtubes, chainstays, and seat tubes different between various makes and models, there would have to be too many configurations than Truvativ probably wants to deal with, whereas ISCG is a standard (for the most part).

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoworks
    Couple weeks ago I posted up my Nomad 1 with the Hammerschmidt using a custom ISCG adapter. I let a buddy of mine try it on a ride, and he liked it so much that he decided to try one out on his Nomad 1. Only we decided to see if it could be done with less custom work using an off the shelf adapter with small modifications....

    The adapter we used was the MRP ISCG 03 adapter:
    hammer_iscg_1.JPG

    As with my install, the adapter takes up 2.5mm of BB width, so had to remove 2.5mm of material from the BB shell on the drive side. Nomads come with 73mm BB shell width, so we brought it down to 70.5mm, so that with the MRP adapter, the total width is 73mm:
    hammer_iscg_2.JPG

    Once you cut the BB shell down, and put on the MRP adapter, you can see that the back side of the adapter wants to hit the rear bearing boss in the frame when trying to rotate the adapter clockwise (looking at it straight on from the drive side):
    hammer_iscg_3.JPG

    This is important because when in overdrive mode, the hammerschmidt wants to rotate the ISCG adapter clockwise, and now that the BB shell has been faced down, the adapter won't rotate due to the bearing boss being in the way. The only issue was trying to figure out if the adapter was clocked correctly.

    We installed the hammer's alignment guide and it appeared to be slighly off. It's hard to see where the tape measure is supposed to intersection the arrow on the alignment gauge, so I drew a red arrow on where the tape measure should have overlapped:
    hammer_iscg_4.JPG

    If we decided to use it as is, I think it would work. In fact I think it would put the shifter housing cable in a better spot (closer to the frame, and less likely to get bashed by rocks). The second issue with the incorrect clocking is that the upper chain guide might not be able to rotate enough forward to prevent chain interference during full suspension compression.

    Because he was so intent on having the alignment spot on per Truvativ's spec, we clocked the ISCG adapter where to Truvativ's alignment specs and scribed a cut line on the MRP adapter:
    hammer_iscg_5.JPG

    hammer_iscg_6.JPG

    Then modified the adapter a little:
    hammer_iscg_7.JPG

    After the mod, the ISCG adapter aligned up perfectly with the alignment gauge and there was a nice flat interface between the modified area and the frame:
    hammer_iscg_8.JPG

    Finished install pics:
    hammer_iscg_9.JPG

    hammer_iscg_10.JPG

    Neither of us was sure if there was enough material there on the ISCG adapter to create a proper interference to prevent rotation. But a few parking lot sprints in overdrive mode proved to hold up ok, so we headed out to the trails for a test. So far on one ride, it's holding up great and he LOVES the instant shift!

    Moral of the story?.....

    I think the un-modified MRP adapter would work even without the little cut we made on the back side if you use the 22T chainring with the 24T upper guide and just clock the upper guide as far forward as you can. This means that anyone who has access to a BB shell facer to cut down 2.5mm off the drive side of their BB shell (or get a shop to do it for them), could basically just buy the MRP adapter and run the hammerschmidt.

    But then again, he's only got one trail ride on it - and this setup I believe needs a more testing on it. I'm gonna forward this link to him, so he can update his impressions on the setup himself.

    .................................
    Last edited by gunt pimp; 12-29-2009 at 04:11 PM.

  38. #38
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    Cosmowork...
    Nice work ...!!!
    Two Questions .. Why use 03 ISCG Adapter and not a 05???
    Why not weld some tabs to support...???

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    ..../....

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by *RAY*
    Cosmowork...
    Nice work ...!!!
    Two Questions .. Why use 03 ISCG Adapter and not a 05???
    Why not weld some tabs to support...???
    Thanks Ray.

    We used ISCG 03, because that's what the bike shop had in stock.
    The adapter is "pinned" against the VPP bearing support, so there's no need to weld anything - it just works.

  41. #41
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    Think this could work on a Heckler? Heckler has a 68mm bb width, so facing shouldnt be nec. Only real issue I see is there is nothing to pin the adapter against to prevent rotation. I suppose I could have it spot welded.

    I beleive I am using the 05 adapter currently with my E13 chainguide, ive read that the 03 works better than the 05, any opinion on this?

    Thanks for any input, Id love to put this crank on my Heckler.


    EDIT- its a 73mm BB shell, my bad.
    Last edited by Hecklez; 01-10-2010 at 11:04 AM.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoworks
    I don't see any reason a well thought-out modified nut and long bolt wouldn't work. If you have the room to face off 2.5mm off the BB shell on the drive side, then you can do so without too much regret, since you can always convert back to the stock width by adding a standard 2.5mm BB spacer.

    Going to 83mm shell BB would keep you from having to face off the 2.5mm off the drive side, but would have two negative side-effects: moves the chainline to the right by 2.5mm (might be a non-issue), and causes your left crank move out 7.5mm (assuming you add the additional spacing to the left side).
    Exactly...you haven't painted yourself into a corner by removing that material as far as I can see. Excellent work there.

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    If I'm correct as the SC Blur 4X and Heckler have 63mm BB shells and the min for A HS is 73mm, in order to get the right size wouldn't we just add 5mm of spacers to the non-drive side and one additional 2.5mm spacer along with the ISCG tab adapter on the drive side.

    Does anyone know if this would work, ie too much rotational force, problems with chainline or alignment of BB with that much taken up by spacers.

    Are the BB's for HS deep cups or shallow?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckcm18
    If I'm correct as the SC Blur 4X and Heckler have 63mm BB shells and the min for A HS is 73mm, in order to get the right size wouldn't we just add 5mm of spacers to the non-drive side and one additional 2.5mm spacer along with the ISCG tab adapter on the drive side.

    Does anyone know if this would work, ie too much rotational force, problems with chainline or alignment of BB with that much taken up by spacers.

    Are the BB's for HS deep cups or shallow?
    63mm? I think you mean 68mm

    In that case you'd put the ISCG adapter on the drive side and a 2.5mm spacer on the non-drive side. If the ISCG adapter doesn't rotate on your blur, then your only drawback is the offset chainline of 2.5mm (which may or may not be a big deal).

  45. #45
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    Yeah sorry meant 68mm, so that means I just need to check if I can get the adapter to lock onto something on the frame and resist twisting, then add/drop spacers to suit.

  46. #46
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    Check this perhaps it could be a possible adapter without cutting the BB of your Nomad I...

  47. #47
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    has anyone tried the bare minimum approach of using an unmodified adapter and a stock width bb? If you use the 24 tooth guide with the 22 tooth ring, would the 2.5mm offset and slightly out of position mount be ok?

  48. #48
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    Already having Hammerschmidts on our Norco Shores, my wife and I really wanted to get them mounted on our trail bikes. I have an '05 Coiler and my wife has an '06 Heckler. I was a bit inspired by what Cosmoworks did and I figured there had to be a way to make a bracket to keep the ISCG adapter from spinning. Since I have a friend who is a metal fabricator, I had him look at what I wanted to do and then make the brackets. I figured mine would be fairly easy as I have 2 sets of lower shock mounting holes that we could bolt a bracket to. On my wife's heckler it was going to be harder as there's no fixed point like that. I decided that a braze-on derailleur clamp adapter would do the trick. The hardest part of this was getting the adapter clocked properly on my wife's Heckler. As I tightened the BB cup it would turn the adapter counter-clockwise. For some reason it stayed in place in my Coiler. It took some trial and error to figure out how to position it to start with so that it was in the proper place when the cup was tight. The other issue I ran into was getting the collar assembly centered on the spindle as I found out that the inside diamater of the ISCG adapter is slightly larger than the BB cup so that it could be off center which absolutely won't work. What I did is leave the BB cup slightly loose and put the collar assembly on and then match the ISCG holes to the collar assembly holes and rotate as necessary. It turns out that the seal disks fit perfectly on the back edge of the BB cup so it's automatically centered on the spindle. It took a bit of time to finally get the ISCG adapter on the Heckler as I had to take the collar assembly on and off each time I tried to clock the ISCG adapter. Once I had the BBs with ISCG adapters mounted it was just a matter of having my friend make the brackets.

    Here's the ISCG adapter mounted and clocked on my Coiler.


    Here's the bracket on my wife's Heckler ready to have the first hole marked. We started with the bottom hole which was just a pass-through and we used a nylock nut on the end. Once we had that hole drilled, we screwed the adapter to the bracket and marked the top hole for the ISCG adapter. That one we drilled and tapped to match the threads on the ISCG adapter. We did that as it would've been extremely difficult to put a nut there due to so little room between the bracket and frame. After getting the bracket screwed to both holes on the ISCG adapter he marked where it needed to be bent and made the bends. Finally with the bracket bent and screwed to the 2 holes, he drilled the hole for the clamp adapter from the opposite side and then it was just a matter of mounting the collar assembly. One important key was getting screws that were long enough to go through the collar assembly and bracket. The stock screws weren't nearly long enough. I got some M6 button head screws with a 4mm Hex head and had our machinist at work trim down the head to the 2mm height and the diameter of the head to 8.5mm to match the stock screws. It's important to use a screw with a 4mm hex so that when you trim down the head, it leaves enough material to maintain the strength needed. We tried screws with a 5mm hex head and it was really easy to break the head off so they wouldn't have worked. We weren't able to break the heads off with the 4mm hex head screws.


    Here's the finished bracket on the Heckler ready for the collar assembly to be mounted.


    Here's the backside view of the Hammershcmidt mounted so you can see how he contoured the bracket.


    Same view on my Coiler.



    Front view on my Coiler.



    Closeup view of the mounted Hammerschmidt and bracket on the Heckler.


    Closeup view of the mounted Hammerschmidt and bracket on the Coiler


    Heckler with the Hammerschmidt mounted and ready to ride.


    I did the parking lot test by putting each one in the biggest gear and stomping on the cranks from a standing start and nothing budged. We did our first ride yesterday which included some short, but steep climbs and they were both flawless.

    I took the Hammershcmidt off both bikes after the ride just to check to make sure everything was still tight which it was.
    Last edited by tadrscin; 04-21-2010 at 07:46 AM.

  49. #49
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    tadrscin: nice work!

  50. #50
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    Thanks. I just did the planning, my friend did all of the hard work. Ride number 2 is in the books after hitting one of our local jump parks and so far so good. I really don't anticipate having any problems though. Next I'm going to take the brackets off and paint them. I have the red paint for my frame, but I may just go with Krylon flat black as it would be easier.
    Last edited by tadrscin; 04-20-2010 at 04:49 PM.

  51. #51
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    Super super awsome tadrscin and cosmoworks - modding at its finest - keep it up
    www.essexhertsmtb.co.uk - Mountain Biking near London in the UK

  52. #52
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    Ingenuity at its finest, fantastic job! Proof that it can be done, and done well, despite not having the tabs.

  53. #53
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    I have an intense 6.6. the vpp design wont let me use a modified iscg adapter plate like timight's. I think I need something like tadscin's heckler solution. but may I ask, is there any reason, other than being permantant, that I couldnt weld in iscg adapter on? does anyone think that would be a bad idea?

  54. #54
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    I have an intense 6.6. the vpp design wont let me use a modified iscg adapter plate like timight's. I think I need something like tadscin's heckler solution. but may I ask, is there any reason, other than being permantant, that I couldnt weld in iscg adapter on? does anyone think that would be a bad idea?

  55. #55
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    I've got ISCG tabs on my Nomad Mk2 so I'm never going to have to do any of this DIY stuff, but I wanted to say am super impressed at the ingenuity and craftsmanship of the work. You guys rock!....
    Safe riding,

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  56. #56
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    mlohgren:
    It wouldn't be annealed to reduce internal stress after welding. But that said, it might not be an issue with an ISCG adapter, since the stress would be localized to a small area around the BB, and I'm not sure if pedaling forces would present a problem.

    But another option that might work... Your VPP bearing looks about the same angle as the Nomad's, so you might be able to get away without welding and just using a very long screw on the bottom ISCG mount bolt hole (the one closest to the rear tire). Then use tadrscin's long backplate bolt method with a machined down head (but use an even longer bolt). Then bolt on a nylon spacer/standoff to the back end of the long bolt so that the standoff makes contact with the VPP bearing area. You still have to face back the BB shell though on your 6.6.

    Not sure I described that right.

  57. #57
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    I agree with this setup. Would like to see someone try it....

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoworks
    mlohgren:
    It wouldn't be annealed to reduce internal stress after welding. But that said, it might not be an issue with an ISCG adapter, since the stress would be localized to a small area around the BB, and I'm not sure if pedaling forces would present a problem.

    But another option that might work... Your VPP bearing looks about the same angle as the Nomad's, so you might be able to get away without welding and just using a very long screw on the bottom ISCG mount bolt hole (the one closest to the rear tire). Then use tadrscin's long backplate bolt method with a machined down head (but use an even longer bolt). Then bolt on a nylon spacer/standoff to the back end of the long bolt so that the standoff makes contact with the VPP bearing area. You still have to face back the BB shell though on your 6.6.

    Not sure I described that right.
    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

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  58. #58
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    alright, so who's gonna help me design a HS system for EBB's?
    so far the bolt and arm method looks easiest to do here at home, but I've got an old Mr. Dirt guide that has the iscg mounts on it, and lots of extra metal as it was a bashguard/guide type.
    so I figure I'll have enough material to mount the hs to the inside and mod a mount on the outside edge of things.

    idea numero dos: lower rear bolthole of the 3 iscg looks like it would be in the main meat of the EBB itself, possible drill a single hole int eh ebb and mount the entire thing off that? yes it'll rotate a bit when the ebb itself changes angle when adjusted for chain tension, but seeing as how the chain gate of the HS is designed to cover a chain coming from the top of the cogs of an 11-34 cogset I'm sure there's a sweet spot that's vertically large enough to allow the entire HS to be rotated enough and still not rub the chain.
    think a single bolted down mount point would be strong enough?

    those're the "easy" ideas... other suggestions?


    frikking big-cojone kudos for the mod work being done here, sram should take note and work on an apapter of their own as it seems the HS market is there even among non-ISCG frame owners.
    Last edited by byknuts; 05-13-2010 at 12:04 PM.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by byknuts

    frikking big-cojone kudos for the mod work being done here, sram should take note and work on an apapter of their own as it seems the HS market is there even among non-ISCG frame owners.
    I would agree. Sadly, liability and unique fitment requirements undoubtedly prohibit SRAM's interest in this. Doesn't mean I don't want them to try as I'm jonesing to mount a Hammer to my machine!

  60. #60
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    Awesome work! Might just order me up an adapter plate to play with. Being winter and such I think its a great time to fiddle with the bike. I have a Slayer and I think I will try a brace similar to your Heckler.
    ‎"Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears." -Marcus Aurelius

  61. #61
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    Is facing the bottom bracket mount really necessary? Shimano instructions call for a 2.5mm spacer on the drive side of the bottom bracket for frame with 73mm spacing anyways, couldn't the ISCG adapter take place of the 2.5mm spacer?

    Thanks,

    Ming

  62. #62
    meow, meow.
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    macming, it's because Hammerschmidt 68/73 mm BBs install without spacers on 73 mm BB shells. Also, they require very tight shell width tolerances.
    26" rigid SS 4130 BB7 nylon-flats ESI latex-tubes non-lubricated-8spd

  63. #63
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    Hi Cosmoworks,

    I'm inspired with your cool ideas that makes me decide to put hammerschmidt into my frame.
    is this ISCG adapter can be done in my ellsworth Epiphany sst 1 frame?
    I opt to put a clamp in my seat tube near BB shell then attach it to the adapter maybe by weld or bolt.
    what if I dont need to shave off that 73mm BB shell, that 2.5mm thickness from adapter will give so much issue with my chainline and wouldn't cuase any issue installing the 73mm BB? this is my main concern.
    I plan to install my rear mech to 11-34 9-speed. any advice?

    thank you in advance..

    regards
    Pal

  64. #64
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    palpalaboy,
    if you leave BB shell at 73 mm and place anything else (thicker than about 0.3 mm) on the side of that, then HS crank arms will not install on the BB axle correctly.
    26" rigid SS 4130 BB7 nylon-flats ESI latex-tubes non-lubricated-8spd

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    palpalaboy,
    if you leave BB shell at 73 mm and place anything else (thicker than about 0.3 mm) on the side of that, then HS crank arms will not install on the BB axle correctly.
    JRP,

    thanks for the quick reply, any suggestion? should I opt to 83mm BB? then put 5mm pacer in the left side then 2.5 extra in the drive side.
    any pros & cons for this option?

  66. #66
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    Well.. I see 2 issues with that.

    First, 5 mm spacer is going to leave few threads on the cup to engage against BB shell. I'm not sure if this is viable, although dirty hacks like using Red Loctite may help.

    Second, HS on the 83 mm BB will have 56 mm chainline, which is going to seriously mess up your cassette setup (too much cross-chaining in low gears). You may want to consider going to narrow-cassette-bodied hub like Hope Pro 2 Trials, Hadley SS and the like. With those hubs, you can still run 6 or 7 cogs, and have very good chainline against a 56 mm crankset. And have a stronger rear wheel as a bonus.
    26" rigid SS 4130 BB7 nylon-flats ESI latex-tubes non-lubricated-8spd

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Well.. I see 2 issues with that.

    First, 5 mm spacer is going to leave few threads on the cup to engage against BB shell. I'm not sure if this is viable, although dirty hacks like using Red Loctite may help.

    Second, HS on the 83 mm BB will have 56 mm chainline, which is going to seriously mess up your cassette setup (too much cross-chaining in low gears). You may want to consider going to narrow-cassette-bodied hub like Hope Pro 2 Trials, Hadley SS and the like. With those hubs, you can still run 6 or 7 cogs, and have very good chainline against a 56 mm crankset. And have a stronger rear wheel as a bonus.
    Hi JRP,

    Thanks again I will think it over & may consider all of your suggestions and bare the consequences damn that truvativ they make our lives so difficult. they should design the HS for non ISCG frame as well and simple as just mount it into BB shell. hahaha

    maybe I will just shave it off the bb shell to fit for 73mm BB then align the adapter properly according to the standard ISCG specification then weld it.

    Thanks again for the inputs
    regards

  68. #68
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    I have not thought of it yesterday, but there's a third issue about 83 mm HS setup, too big Q-factor. That is, cranks spaced too far apart. And HS cranks are shaped so that they tend to get in the way of your ankle bones even with 73 mm setup. Especially the bash guard (however, there seems to be an -- expensive -- cure for that, called a Nicolai Hammerschmidt Pimp Kit).


    As for mounting planetary gearbox cranksets on BB shell without ISCG tabs, an alternative solution is offered with Schlumpf Innovations cranksets. It requires machining a certain bevel into drive side of the shell. The cutting bits to do that, however, are proprietary.
    26" rigid SS 4130 BB7 nylon-flats ESI latex-tubes non-lubricated-8spd

  69. #69
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    Hi all,i have felt redemption and set of hammerschmidt,now how to install properly?.Felt distribution selling felt bikes with hammerschmidt but i cannot find the information about this,there on the frame is only one bolt so do need i adapts to instal this hs?
    Let me know.

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