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  1. #1
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    Coil shock on AM/XC heckler?

    I purchased a new heckler in July with an rp23. My instincts told me to go coil in the rear but I caved in to the bike shops opinion of lighter is better. Now I am back to considering a coil for next season based on durability issues with air shocks. I like to descend aggressively but I also like to tackle big, long climbs nearly every ride. I know a coil shock (either dhx-5 or ccdb) will weigh more, but will coil rear shocks also just be too "squishy" and rob me of too much energy going up hill?

    Currently I have a fox vanilla 32 up front which I have owned for over a year and love and on 90% of my climbs I leave the rp23 fully open (no pro-pedal) and run the air pressure low for my weight because I like the rear plush and responsive. If I can swing it I'd love to get a Van36 as well. Would the combo of Van36, and rear coil just be too much for climbing?

  2. #2
    Legend of Drunken Heckler
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    The shock will add about a pound to your bike, same with the 36 fork. You'll still be able to climb, you'll just be pushing more weight.

  3. #3
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    I have both the DHX5 coil and van36, I absolutely love what it has done for my heckler. In my opinion the performance and feel of coil far outweighs any issues surrounding excess weight. As long as you have the correct spring for your weight (geared up) then there shouldn't be any squishiness. I have no trouble on big climbs with this setup.
    Something to be aware of is that the 36 will slacken the head angle slightly, I found I preferred this compared to running a 140mm fork (Pike), the bike feels much more playful and generally more fun to ride (especially descending).
    Mine is the older heckler before the 07 revision.

  4. #4
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    I've got a talas 36 rc2 on mine and a dhx coil (obtainium ti spring). Total weight of 31.5 lbs. Climbs great. Drops even better!!!! The RP23 just blew right through the midstroke and I couldnt jump or drop it without bottoming out. It feels super solid with the coil. With 15 clicks of propedal it is easy to dial in the firmness of your shock to your preference.

  5. #5
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    My heckler (size XL) with a van32 and rp23 is hovering around 29.5 lbs so I could accept adding a pound or two. I like the big climbs but I don't need to be the first one to top and I am usually content just to patiently grind it out in a low gear. I run my rp23 soft as is and almost never use the pro pedal. One other thing that really concerns me is the durability of air shocks versus coil. After only ~220 miles I am facing maintainence issues. Last ride my rp23 started leaking oil due to a small (~ 2 mm) scratch on the shock body maybe ~70% of the way into the travel. The scratch (I am assuming) was caused by a stray pebble kicked up by the front wheel. I don't feel like I would having this issue if I was using a coil shock,.

    Gravitytheif...i am curious how much extra was the ti spring and how much weight did it save you?

  6. #6
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    Since you got it last July, assume it's the current version? I set mine up with a Van 32 140 (regular qr) and DHX 5.0 coil, I'm a coil fan for reliability and performance. I don't think the weight is an issue for climbing, I'm not racing up the hill and the propedal works fine for me. I've thought about the ti spring but I'm still farting around with a couple different rate steel springs, not quite willing to spend a buck a gram to lighten it at the moment when I'm not even sure what the right rate is yet (easy to fool around with several steel springs, they only cost 1/10th as much). I think it rides a little tall with the 140 but someday I'll throw my 36 on there for comparison (I also have a Nomad with the Van36 and DHX 5.0 coils). I do wish the VanR was a bit stiffer, though, the 36 kinda spoils you that way.
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  7. #7
    cup
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    i was looking at talas 36, but thing is the talas dont drop to 140 mm right, its like 160, 115 and 100 right ? sorry for the thread hijack

  8. #8
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    I think its 160-130-100. If you were concerned about being able to wind down to exactly 140mm on a larger 160mm fork you could possibly look at the Lyrik U-Turn or a Magura Wotan

  9. #9
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    I'm runnin dhx5c and 09 van36rc2 since july and bike weights about 34lbs, no problem pedalling as the propedal takes care of that. Advantage is i can go down much faster and the dhx5c is near set-and-forget.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, I do have the current heckler version. I think I'll finish out the rest of season on my rp23 then look for the dhx-coil over the winter. They seem to be pretty cheap on ebay. As far as the fork, I love the geometry of the heckler right now with the van32, but in the rough the van32 definitely feels a bit flexy on fast descents. I'll have to check out the Lyric U-Turn coil. Does anybody know if they have a good reputation?

  11. #11
    cup
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    the talas is not a must have, i'm looking around for a trusty and minimum maintainence 160mm fork.

  12. #12
    Creepy tooth fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by erictw83
    Yeah, I do have the current heckler version. I think I'll finish out the rest of season on my rp23 then look for the dhx-coil over the winter. They seem to be pretty cheap on ebay. As far as the fork, I love the geometry of the heckler right now with the van32, but in the rough the van32 definitely feels a bit flexy on fast descents. I'll have to check out the Lyric U-Turn coil. Does anybody know if they have a good reputation?
    I have stated for years that if a rider weighs more than 150 lbs and/or is an aggressive rider (take jumps/drops over 2 feet; I know thats conservative but beyond that point is when suspension really starts getting stressed) then they should be using coil suspension rather than air even with the piggy back air designs. The weight changes will be well worth the increase in performance. The Lyrik U-turn coil is a killer fork; probably an ideal match for the Heckler. It was great on mine for the year that I ran it and now it is doing time on my Nomad.

    The weight thing is [SIZE="5"]SOOOOOOO[/SIZE] over-rated especially by people in the bike industry.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by erictw83
    My heckler (size XL) with a van32 and rp23 is hovering around 29.5 lbs so I could accept adding a pound or two. I like the big climbs but I don't need to be the first one to top and I am usually content just to patiently grind it out in a low gear. I run my rp23 soft as is and almost never use the pro pedal. One other thing that really concerns me is the durability of air shocks versus coil. After only ~220 miles I am facing maintainence issues. Last ride my rp23 started leaking oil due to a small (~ 2 mm) scratch on the shock body maybe ~70% of the way into the travel. The scratch (I am assuming) was caused by a stray pebble kicked up by the front wheel. I don't feel like I would having this issue if I was using a coil shock,.

    Gravitytheif...i am curious how much extra was the ti spring and how much weight did it save you?
    I went high end on the coil and got an obtainium. I think it saved about 1/2 pound. Cost was around $270. A couple things to watch out for with a ti coil are inner diameter and the grade of ti used. The obtainium springs are aerospace grade ti and are lighter. They also have a fit kit specific to the dhx. Without a proper inner diameter or a fit adapter some other brands of springs can have a significant amount of play which can lead to the spring rubbing on the shock body.

  14. #14
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    I know the Heckler's official shock size is 8.5 x 2.5. Has anybody tried throwing a 8.75 X2.75 on there to squeeze a little extra travel out her?

  15. #15
    emtb.pl
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    Quote Originally Posted by HELLBELLY
    IThe Lyrik U-turn coil is a killer fork; probably an ideal match for the Heckler. It was great on mine for the year that I ran it and now it is doing time on my Nomad.
    No bushings issue? No nothing? I am looking at that fork for a while now as it has what I need but there's so manyh people with issues... My friend has a 08 2step and it just went down (2step) and had play in the bushings from day 1. it is a lottery, isn't it?

  16. #16
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    HB's dead right about the coil rear end issue for any rider over 150lbs. My DHX has been super-reliable - over winter it'll be off to TFtuned for a PUSH upgrade. I can't imagine running an air shock on the back.

    @ Cup: Having said that, I got a cracking deal on an '08 36 Float RC2 which I'm finding pretty incredible. It's uber-stiff and just unbelievably plush. I think a Van would have better progression characteristics, as my Float can blow through it's travel a bit, but twiddling the LSC helps prop it up. TALAS is just more stuff to go wrong, in my book.

    @ erictw83: a longer shock would lift the BB and make the HA steeper. You'd have to run a big fork to combat that, and you might end up with some odd handling. Still, I s'pose it's only .25 of an inch...

  17. #17
    Creepy tooth fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by krolik
    No bushings issue? No nothing? I am looking at that fork for a while now as it has what I need but there's so manyh people with issues... My friend has a 08 2step and it just went down (2step) and had play in the bushings from day 1. it is a lottery, isn't it?
    Lotsa trouble with the 2-steps in both the Lyrik and Totem versions. Not so much with the U-turn models. No problems w/mine. My friends that have a Lyrik and a Totem U-turns only had to replace seals after a season and a half.
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  18. #18
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    I was reading another thread about putting the 8.75 X 2.75 on nomads (spec is 8.5 x 2.5). I thought maybe the combo of a van36 and and 8.75x2.75 might work together to keep my ride geometry largely unchanged, except of course for a slightly raised bottom bracket height. I posted that question before looking at the frame and after looking at it I am not entirely sure the largely shock would fit. There may be some contact with between front and rear triangles, but there might not be.

    After my ride yesterday I decided I am definitely going to switch to a coil rear shock. Even running the rp23 ~20 psi below SC recommendation, it's still not as plush as I think it could be or should be.

    As for the fork, I'd be tempted to try out the U-Turn coil. Of course though I love my Van32 so much it'd be hard to stray away from the van36. Too bad no place lets you demo forks.

    Ahh, it's just one of the inevitabilities of life...I am destined to spend another ~$1500 on upgrades with a smile on my face.

  19. #19
    emtb.pl
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    Quote Originally Posted by HELLBELLY
    Lotsa trouble with the 2-steps in both the Lyrik and Totem versions. Not so much with the U-turn models. No problems w/mine. My friends that have a Lyrik and a Totem U-turns only had to replace seals after a season and a half.
    Thanks Hellbelly. Lyric uturn might just be the only coil option available for my new build. I so wish Fox made sth like uturn on the van... Or if it were possible to run a uturn cartridge in the van.

  20. #20
    cup
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    hey franz, thanks for the headsup, but i'm looking for travel adjustment too. so my ideal fork will be trusty and minimum maintainence AND with travel adjustment ,160mm fork.

  21. #21
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    One of the guys here is running an 8.75x2.75 on his without issue. I might throw one on mine to see how it rides.

  22. #22
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    another vote for coil, but...

    I've got a Fox DHX coil on an 04 Heckler and love it - I ride mostly AM and aggressive XC (jumps & 4+ ft drops). It took a while to get it dialed in after switching from the stock Progressive 5th Element coil because the action is really different, but now I love it. I scored a bro deal on a ti spring which saved almost 1/2 lb, strongly recommend it if you can swing it.
    The biggest problem is that I have a Fox 36 TALAS R up front and can feel a difference between the action of the air spring up front and the coil in the rear - the suspension doesn't feel quite balanced. I'd switch to a coil fork but I love the height adjustment and the lower weight of the 36, especially on long, steep climbs, so I've started experimenting with the fork air pressure and rebound settings recently feel like I'm getting closer to the feel I want. I hate messing with that stuff - I'm mostly a set-it-&-forget-it guy.
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