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  1. #1
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    CCDBAir CS vs Vivid Air for Nomad 650b

    Hey All, first post here, I'd like to get your opinions on what shock to run for the new Nomad set up for more park/ mini-dh use- stock Vivid Air or a DBAir CS?

    I'd be buying frame only and building up, my LBS can get the naked frame (no shock) for a reduced price, so the two builds will be about the same cost. I'd be pairing it with a 180mm X-Fusion metric up front.

    Currently I'm running a DBAir on my Bronson, and loving it, but thats a much more trail-oriented build set up on the firmer side, and I'm going to be replacing my DH bike with the Nomad, so something with extra plushness is going to be appreciated. Mostly what I'm looking for is details on the DH performance of the Vivid vs the DBair


    My thoughts:
    Vivid Air Pros:I know it will work, matte black will match the color scheme, possibly slightly more dh-focused? (not sure on this one)
    Vivid Air Cons: No climb mode, heavier

    DBAir Pros: Wider range of tuneability, lighter, climb switch
    DBAir Cons: Maybe not quite as plush? Will probably take a bit to dial in (I don't mind this so much though)

  2. #2
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    go with the CC DB Air CS...contact them Cane Creek, they have a base tune but its not posted yet.
    I just put one on my Nomad and love it...swapped out the Monarch.

    I have it on good authority that SC will soon be offering the CC DB Air CS as a Factory upgrade.

    "UPGRADE"....need I say more.

  3. #3
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    Hey Bradical,

    I've got a nomad on the way with the RS Monarch. I've been really interested in the DBAir CS for a long time. Did you upgrade yours from the Vivid or Monarch? Can you compare your DBAir to what you used to have on the nomad? Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Is it XV can model in 8.5 x 2.5 for the new Nomad? I have that size in regular CS model, but I've heard you can buy the XV can separately.

  5. #5
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    CC told me to go for the XV can, its arriving tomorrow, first ride will be Thursday:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary at Cane Creek
    Thanks for your question. We haven't tested directly with this frame so it is unknown whether it will be better suited with the regular or XV Can. It's generally a safer bet to go with the XV Can and order an extra set of volume spacers so that you can control the air volume to the point where it is the same as a regular air can if needed. You can also switch air cans easily (they retail for $40) down the road if you need to.

  6. #6
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    Here's the link for the appropriate xv air can:

    Cane Creek XV air can 215x63mm

  7. #7
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    please advise what the base tune is. thanks

  8. #8
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    anyone knows the base tune?

    I'm running a CC Dbair XV and it will be very usefull

    Thanks!

  9. #9
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    I cannot advise on the base tune but I can advise on my shocks tune.

    85kg RTR,
    XV can,
    1 large volume spacer fitted,
    HSR 3.5 turns in from min,
    LSR 6 clicks out from max,
    HSC 2 turns in from min,
    LSC 12 clicks out from max,
    155 psi pressure.

  10. #10
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    CCDBAir CS vs Vivid Air for Nomad 650b

    Thanks a lot, Rick, I will start with it.

  11. #11
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    FWIW, I emailed cc, they do not have a base tune yet... Being a plug and play type rider, I will wait and see, till then will continue with the monarch

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatstroke View Post
    FWIW, I emailed cc, they do not have a base tune yet... Being a plug and play type rider, I will wait and see, till then will continue with the monarch
    IMHO its probably the wrong shock for you.

  13. #13
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    Yeah... maybe plug and play was an over simplification. So a bit of clarification. I'd like to start in the right ball park, I don't object to trying tweaking around a good starting point. The amount of time I spent back and forth on the nomad 2 with adjustment around the base tune makes me weary of starting from a complete blank. It was gratifying, but reached the point where eventually I said : good enough , I can't really improve much more/or I can't tell the difference in the small adustments.

    I have the shock already, just want to start in the right area. I'd like to send a bit more time on the monarch too so I can make a decent comparison and know what traits I'd like to improve/remove.

  14. #14
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    Took this response from another thread....
    Here is what my local Suspension shop acquired from Cane Creek, apparently these shocks will be available through SC as an upgrade in the near future:

    CC Base Settings , 18mm to 23 mm sag recommended
    HSC 1-1.5 turns
    LSC 7-9 clicks
    HSR 2.0-2.5 turns
    LSR 10-12 clicks

    I settled in with 15-16mm sag
    HSR 1.5 turns
    LSR 9 clicks
    HSR 2.0 turns
    LSR 12 clicks

  15. #15
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    Thanks for posting this, I'll also be moving my DBAir CS over to my Nomad. I have the standard can now, if I find it's too progressive I'll pick up the XV can.

  16. #16
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    Cool, let me know how that works out. I've got the standard can too, but once my Nomad arrives, I may order the XV can, which I believe they recommend. ModernBike has them for $36.

  17. #17
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    Are those measured from "open" ?
    Cheers

  18. #18
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    You should set sag and the 4 other levels of adjustability from the CS-off or open position

  19. #19
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    I have Vivid Air on my 27.5 Nomad, but after few days rebound adjusters don't work anymore. I'm dropping it into warranty service, but so far the reliability doesn't impress me.

  20. #20
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    CCDBAir CS vs Vivid Air for Nomad 650b

    Does anyone know the correct mounting hardware to use on the CCDB Air CS with the Nomad?

  21. #21
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    I have never ridden the Vivid, but have a few days on my CCDB on the new Nomad. Right now I am on a bit of a dream trip. Me and my Nomad are in Innsbruck, Austria. I have been riding big vert on primitive rocky/rooty trails. I will be hitting the bike park tomorrow. The shock is like glue for the rear end. No funny business, but very plush and supportive. This has been fast riding, could be different on slower riding. Current tune (I have been tweaking little changes but this is where I keep coming back to):
    Normal air can, no spacers.
    Sag: 20mm
    HSC: 1.25 from full fast
    HSR: 1.75
    LSC: 6-7
    LSR: 10-11

    So real close to what was mentioned above by Cintram. I will try to add a bit more HSR into the 2.0+ range tomorrow as per the suggestion. I am happy with the lower LSC value though. This could change on more peddaly DH.

  22. #22
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    Been playing with the CC DBAIR CS XV.
    Sag: 20mm
    HSC: 0.75 from full fast,
    HSR: 1.75
    LSC: 8
    LSR: 11

    83kg RTR, running 120 psi with 1 large and 2 small spacers. Much better that before where PSI was higher and only had 2 small spacers.. Initially not happy with the high speed chunder, felt harsh even though it was using 2/3rd travel through that section. Gradually lowered the LSC, and bumped up the volume spacers.

  23. #23
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    hi!
    im thinking about getting a CC DBair CS aswell. but I cant decide on XV can or standard can.
    neither can CC.
    I just got an email I should go for the standard can, other got told to go for the XV can...

    how many volume spacers have u put in the can now?

    thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by heatstroke View Post
    Been playing with the CC DBAIR CS XV.
    Sag: 20mm
    HSC: 0.75 from full fast,
    HSR: 1.75
    LSC: 8
    LSR: 11

    83kg RTR, running 120 psi with 1 large and 2 small spacers. Much better that before where PSI was higher and only had 2 small spacers.. Initially not happy with the high speed chunder, felt harsh even though it was using 2/3rd travel through that section. Gradually lowered the LSC, and bumped up the volume spacers.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaffleStomp View Post

    I'd be buying frame only and building up, my LBS can get the naked frame (no shock) for a reduced price, so the two builds will be about the same cost. I'd be pairing it with a 180mm X-Fusion metric up front.
    Your LBS was able to get you the frame with no rear shock? I was talking to my LBS yesterday and they contacted Santa Cruz for me and was told that it wasn't possible. I was to build up a frame with a CCDBA as well so I was hoping to save a bit of cash and get the frame without a shock.

  25. #25
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    I was told point blank by SC that they wouldn't supply frame without shock.

    Had to buy frame with Monarch and swap out for CCDB-Air. Sold the monarch straight away on eBay, so not too out of pocket. But not quite the customer orientated service I expected from SC - I mean it's my bike and I think I'm old enough to decide what shock I want!

    My current CCDB-Air set up - feels plush and responsive/active. Very pleased with it

    125psi
    19mm sag (30%)

    HSC 1 turns
    LSC 7 clicks
    HSR 2.25 turns
    LSR 10 clicks

  26. #26
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    could you please add info on which can you use? im still trying to decide...
    thank you!
    Quote Originally Posted by CJD-uk View Post
    I was told point blank by SC that they wouldn't supply frame without shock.

    Had to buy frame with Monarch and swap out for CCDB-Air. Sold the monarch straight away on eBay, so not too out of pocket. But not quite the customer orientated service I expected from SC - I mean it's my bike and I think I'm old enough to decide what shock I want!

    My current CCDB-Air set up - feels plush and responsive/active. Very pleased with it

    125psi
    19mm sag (30%)

    HSC 1 turns
    LSC 7 clicks
    HSR 2.25 turns
    LSR 10 clicks

  27. #27
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    Not quite sure what you are asking?

    ps - went for standard can on CCDB after emailing Cane Creek direct.

    Not ridden the Vivid - but went for CCDB because: (i) it eventually will be an 'upgrade' option on the Nomad frame (enough said!); (ii) the reputation of the CCDB is well known; (iii) Bronson riders seem to prefer the CCDB, so hoping this would be the same on the Nomad (iv) the climb switch and CC's approach to designing it; (v) tune-ability; (vi) it looks awesome ;-)


    Quote Originally Posted by fone View Post
    could you please add info on which can you use? im still trying to decide...
    thank you!

  28. #28
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    He's asking standard volume or X-Volume air can

  29. #29
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  30. #30
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    Got it - it now makes sense!

    Standard Can - as advised by Cane Creek.

  31. #31
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    Just picked one up. I'm having an issue of not getting full travel... O-ring still has almost an inch to go in the stroke and thats after some big hits/drops. Started with their base tune and messed with it here and there.

    185lbs ready to ride.
    Standard air can

    18mm sag @130psi
    HSC 1.5
    LSC 7-9
    HSR 2-2.25
    LSR 10

    Sent from my Nexus 7

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonj51 View Post
    Just picked one up. I'm having an issue of not getting full travel... O-ring still has almost an inch to go in the stroke and thats after some big hits/drops. Started with their base tune and messed with it here and there.

    185lbs ready to ride.
    Standard air can

    18mm sag @130psi
    HSC 1.5
    LSC 7-9
    HSR 2-2.25
    LSR 10

    Sent from my Nexus 7
    Any volume spacers in the can? If so, start there. If none, try backing off HSC in 1/4 turns. Also, are you measuring sag after sitting on the seat or after standing on the pedals and giving a few "trail pumps"? If you ride a lot of tech DH stuff, I would try the standing sag measurement. You'd be surprised what a difference this can makes.


    -Ron.

  33. #33
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    I've been playing a little bit with the XV can and spacers. I am now at 2.5 large spacers so almost at the Standard can volume. Pressure has been dropped a bit to compensate.
    I'm 83KG (183lbs) RTR, and I am at about 125psi for 30% sag ( so almost identical to jacksonj51)

    As I add spacers, the suspension characteristics are improving, better mid support, plusher initial stroke. And still managed to use all the travel in big hits. Think I will increase the HSC a smidge to 1.5 from 1

  34. #34
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    Anyone running a DB inline on their 2014 Nomads ?

    I got sent a Inline as they didnt have stock of the DB air CS and im 110 KG and not sure if this shock is well suited for a Nomad ?

  35. #35
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    CCDBAir CS vs Vivid Air for Nomad 650b

    I've heard the inline is not a good shock for the Nomad. Get the DB Air CS normal air can

  36. #36
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    According to cane creek they've had very positive feedback regarding the nomad inline combo....check " the lounge"

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    New Enduro 650B is specced with DB Inline, pretty sure that the 216 x 63mm can handle being in a 165m travel frame. @Bradical says it rides a little firmer than the DB Air CS and he has tried both. Not sure how big he is but send him a message he was pretty good at getting back to me re this subject as I am about 102 kg with gear and I am still deciding.

    Got to be better than the Monarch (which I rode for the first 8 weeks including some Whistler double black classics) if you are happy to put the set up time into the shock. I switched to an X-Fusion Vector Air HLR which is actually great but I am curious to try a shock with a climb switch.

    There is also a bit of the first season factor with the Inline where despite the R&D and test riding as well as good QC there is always a slightly higher warranty factor for a new product, especially one that is going to be working so hard. I wonder how many of the 'problem' Inlines have been sent back because they were damaged due to incorrect set up?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewBikeGuide View Post
    There is also a bit of the first season factor with the Inline where despite the R&D and test riding as well as good QC there is always a slightly higher warranty factor for a new product, especially one that is going to be working so hard. I wonder how many of the 'problem' Inlines have been sent back because they were damaged due to incorrect set up?
    What do you mean by damaged due to incorrect setup? The only thing I can think of that should damage it would be over inflation, but maybe I am missing something.

  39. #39
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    ok wel im gona hit my local trail this weekend and do all the small jumps and drops and see how it feels, i did email CC and they recommended the DB air though

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwync View Post
    ok wel im gona hit my local trail this weekend and do all the small jumps and drops and see how it feels, i did email CC and they recommended the DB air though
    Post your feedback here if you can please as very interested. Also any links to the trails you ride so we can see what sort of features etc they have. Thanks. Happy trails.

  41. #41
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    CCDBAir CS vs Vivid Air for Nomad 650b

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewBikeGuide View Post

    There is also a bit of the first season factor with the Inline where despite the R&D and test riding as well as good QC there is always a slightly higher warranty factor for a new product, especially one that is going to be working so hard. I wonder how many of the 'problem' Inlines have been sent back because they were damaged due to incorrect set up?
    Sorry, but I've had two Inlines blow on me (on a Tallboy). The second one was on the first ride. There are problems with that shock.

  42. #42
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    I do not dispute this at all, my main pioint is "first season" for a new technology.
    We saw the test crews from two magazines rag at least two bikes in the bike park for three days this summer including deliberately riding badly and they had no problems with the shocks.

    Also Specialized, who don't often make a production mistake are happy to spec it on the Enduro 650B, a bike that they know is going to be ridden hard and put away dirty by a lot of riders.

    I think that the QC will eventually come up to the standard that they deliver on their other shocks. I feel for everyone who has had a problem with their shock and hope that CC do the right thing in resolving and remedying the problems for their customers. I am waiting until Bradical has worked his shock a bit (as I can easily relate to the trails he rides on the North Shore) before I finally commit to either the DBAirCS or the Inline.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonj51 View Post
    Just picked one up. I'm having an issue of not getting full travel... O-ring still has almost an inch to go in the stroke and thats after some big hits/drops. Started with their base tune and messed with it here and there.

    185lbs ready to ride.
    Standard air can

    18mm sag @130psi
    HSC 1.5
    LSC 7-9
    HSR 2-2.25
    LSR 10

    Sent from my Nexus 7
    Did you get the setup dialed in?

  44. #44
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    I have always felt that Nomads ran better with more rather than less sag. I would consider 18mm absolute min and I would only ever use that if I was on all day xc rides.My setup is more like 22mm

  45. #45
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    What's that as a percentage? I've settled on a hair over 20% sag on my nomad with vivid air. 15% or so in the front with the 36.

    nzl I think I met you briefly in the weekend in worsleys.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgrAde View Post
    What's that as a percentage?
    18-22mm = a little less than 30% to 35%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgrAde View Post
    What's that as a percentage? I've settled on a hair over 20% sag on my nomad with vivid air. 15% or so in the front with the 36.

    nzl I think I met you briefly in the weekend in worsleys.
    I usually go for 25% but found that the Nomad works best with 28-30% as it is designed to stay high in the travel anyway and you would have to be generating insane forces to use all the travel with only 20% sag set. It rides way better at 30% anyway (with both shocks: the Monarch and the Vertir Air HLR).

    then tune to front to have the bike in balance, not really bothered about the final number other than for post service set up reference. Final test is that both front and rear use full travel where they should.
    Last edited by AndrewBikeGuide; 01-20-2015 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Tech error

  48. #48
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    I disagree, but I do ride differently to most. I use full travel probably every other ride.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgrAde View Post
    I disagree, but I do ride differently to most. I use full travel probably every other ride.
    You are also one of two riders on a Vivid Air on this thread about the Inline vs DBAirCS.

    Vivid Air set up not really a relevant contribution to the discussion of how to set up our Nomads with either of these two shocks.

    I run 22% on my BOS Void and get full travel almost every run (where it should use it) but again not really a valid comparison for someone trying to set up their Nomad with either the Inline or AirCS.

    Enjoy your Vivid Air though, good shocks now they are past their first season blues.

  50. #50
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    Indeed, though I thought it worth noting that the frame (as in, its leverage curve and pedaling characteristics) is perfectly happy at less sag.

    The monarch ramps up and makes end travel hard to use with less sag (apparently, but I can imagine), whereas the vivid is very linear. The CC products can be quite linear, which I think is optimal for this bike, so the comparison when talking spring rate isn't too out of context.

  51. #51
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    True. The ramp up on the Monarch really makes that last bit of travel hard to use. There is a chap with a Storia and he rates it highly. Again a more linear shock (& precisely custom tuned).

    The first thing I did with my Vector is go to minimum pressure on the bottom out system to remove any ramp up.

    Makes sense and good to know that the CCs are more linear.
    As I've stated before having a shock on such a high performance bike that does not separate low & high speed compression just does not make sense for me.

    CC shocks obviously require some set up time but like your R2C2 being able to adjust every aspect of the ride from the shock is worth the time.
    Happy trails

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnitram View Post
    Cool, let me know how that works out. I've got the standard can too, but once my Nomad arrives, I may order the XV can, which I believe they recommend. ModernBike has them for $36.

    CC are recommending the standard can for Nomad 3.
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  53. #53
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    Hey Rick, are you still liking this setup? I'm trying to get my CCDBA CS setup. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    I cannot advise on the base tune but I can advise on my shocks tune.

    85kg RTR,
    XV can,
    1 large volume spacer fitted,
    HSR 3.5 turns in from min,
    LSR 6 clicks out from max,
    HSC 2 turns in from min,
    LSC 12 clicks out from max,
    155 psi pressure.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdiff View Post
    Hey Rick, are you still liking this setup? I'm trying to get my CCDBA CS setup. Thanks!
    I went to a setup Bradical posted elsewhere on the forum and it was even better. Its based on a standard aircan.

  55. #55
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    This is the perfect thread for my questions as I just purchased a Nomad frame with the monarch shock today. Building this bike to be my "big bike" paired with a 170mm fox 36 fork. Monarch is going on Pinkbike on day one; question is to go with Vivid or CCDB cs? Everyone on this thread seems to have gone from monarch to CCDB, anyone here with Vivid experience that can share their thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewBikeGuide View Post
    Haha, yeah been trying to glean information from the 120 pages of randomness. Was hoping that since a specific comparison thread was made that the conversation could be captured and continued here.

    Seems that many have upgraded to the ccdba; for those of you, are you able to get full travel in the rear? How about tune the shock for specific terrain? Can you make it poppy?

  58. #58
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    It's a whole different price range, but if I was shopping for a new shock I'd also read this thread PUSH Industries Elevensix: Review
    Everyone who's ridden one is pretty over the moon about the ElevenSix and it Push really seem to have the customer service side of it dialled. It's a lot of cash, but if I was going to spend money on a shock I think I would save up the extra dollars and just jump to the ElevenSix. After forking out for the bike its going to be a "next season" upgrade, but I'm definitely intrigued by the ride reports

  59. #59
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    What would you guys do here?

    My new frame is on its way in the next week or two. Frame has Monarch on it that I have two options to go with. The first, is to buy the CCDB air cs and try to sell the Monarch to help offset the cost. 2nd option is to trade the monarch to my lbs for a vivid air plus $200. I'm already stretched on this build so cost is a factor...do you think I could sell an unused Monarch for $300? Which route would you go?

  60. #60
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    Probably: Results for "monarch plus" - Pinkbike BuySell Search

    It depends on whther you want the climb setting. Both have lots of adjustment and good reps from the people that run them.
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    YUp I searched that already. Looks like one new one on there and it's unsold. Can't really draw many conclusions from that. Here's a question: is anyone buying secondhand monarchs for their nomad? Probably not, right?

    I currently have a ccdb on my warden, it's rad, no doubt. But so is the vivid, right? I guess I'm answering my own question here. Used market for monarchs is probably shite so best to trade with lbs and only spend $200.

  62. #62
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    Well if someone offered me $300 for my Monarch Plus Debonair I'd sell it in a second!
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewBikeGuide View Post
    Well if someone offered me $300 for my Monarch Plus Debonair I'd sell it in a second!
    haha, yeah...I have a feeling you wouldn't be alone.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmittyPDX View Post
    This is the perfect thread for my questions as I just purchased a Nomad frame with the monarch shock today. Building this bike to be my "big bike" paired with a 170mm fox 36 fork. Monarch is going on Pinkbike on day one; question is to go with Vivid or CCDB cs? Everyone on this thread seems to have gone from monarch to CCDB, anyone here with Vivid experience that can share their thoughts?
    Hey Smitty, I can't comment on the Vivid compared to the CCDBA CS, but I have a couple of thoughts/experiences. I bought my frame with a Monarch and thought I made a mistake instead of getting the Vivid. Despite all the talk on here I think the Monarch is a pretty decent all around trail shock. I was expecting something like the Fox RP23 but it's much better and pretty competent. It is not a DH oriented shock either though. The Fox 36 170mm feels a little superior to the Monarch.

    If your funds allow it I would pick up the CCDBA CS, but if you have to wait to save up some cash I think the Monarch will suffice in the mean time. Now that I'm getting my settings dialed in on the CCDBA CS it's feeling a little better than the fork. (I probably need to adjust the fork a little more.)

    If you search the the PB classifieds regularly you can pickup a CCDBA CS in good condition for <$350. They sell fast. I picked one up that was only ridden a handful of times for less than $300. A lot of people on their post ridiculous prices, but items do come up for a fair price.

    *edit/additional comment: I would not buy the PUSH shock for that price. While I'm sure it's a nice shock, I doubt it demands the $550+ premium over a CCDB coil. My $.02

  65. #65
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    Kdiff, thank you for responding. You're right about the double barrel, I have one now and love it on my Warden. Used might be the way I go considering how cheap they can be had for. My Nomad is being built up as my big bike so downhill prowess is critical in my rear shock decision. Plus, I'm a bigger guy which I've heard the Monarch doesn't support as well with larger riders. Think I'll use my monarch as trade bait or put on PB at a blowout price to offset the CCDB purchase.

  66. #66
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    The new monarch just released doesn't help things


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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmittyPDX View Post
    Haha, yeah been trying to glean information from the 120 pages of randomness. Was hoping that since a specific comparison thread was made that the conversation could be captured and continued here.

    Seems that many have upgraded to the ccdba; for those of you, are you able to get full travel in the rear? How about tune the shock for specific terrain? Can you make it poppy?
    I'm at 160 geared to ride and don't have any issues getting full travel on drops around 4' to transition with the CCDBA. You already know how adjustable the CCDBA is, you can tune it to be poppy or whatever you like. I can't compare it to the Vivid, I swapped out the Monarch as soon as I got my bike.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvan.Being View Post
    It's a whole different price range, but if I was shopping for a new shock I'd also read this thread PUSH Industries Elevensix: Review
    Everyone who's ridden one is pretty over the moon about the ElevenSix and it Push really seem to have the customer service side of it dialled. It's a lot of cash, but if I was going to spend money on a shock I think I would save up the extra dollars and just jump to the ElevenSix. After forking out for the bike its going to be a "next season" upgrade, but I'm definitely intrigued by the ride reports

  69. #69
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    I love my vivid air, I'm coming from a Gen 2 Nomad with a PUSH link and FOX RC4 coil shock to the N3 with vivid air and the vivid air feels better to me then my old setup. I think if more people opted for the vivid air they wouldn't be swapping shocks out so much.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhailofgunfirex View Post
    I think if more people opted for the vivid air they wouldn't be swapping shocks out so much.
    I agree. My first N3 came with a Vivid, it was stolen and the replacement has the Monarch (I got a good deal). The vivid is a much better shock, so now I'm trying to decide if I should go back to the Vivid, buy a DBairCS, or save up for a ElevenSix. I'll probably go with the DBair.
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  71. #71
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    Just got back from my first ride on my Nomad with the ccdb air cs. Felt very plush using Cane Creek's base tune. This question was asked before, but never really answered...are all of you getting full travel from the CCDB? I have about an inch remaining from the O ring and the end of the shaft. Is that normal?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmittyPDX View Post
    Just got back from my first ride on my Nomad with the ccdb air cs. Felt very plush using Cane Creek's base tune. This question was asked before, but never really answered...are all of you getting full travel from the CCDB? I have about an inch remaining from the O ring and the end of the shaft. Is that normal?
    Make sure to measure your actual shaft travel achieved. Some of the CCDB shocks are spaced down versions of longer stroke shocks.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Make sure to measure your actual shaft travel achieved. Some of the CCDB shocks are spaced down versions of longer stroke shocks.
    ^^This.

    I suggest putting a zip tie loosely around your shock shaft, then letting all the air out and fully compressing the shock. Then tighten down the zip tie all the way with it flush against the (compressed) shock body. The zip tie now marks full travel, and you can more easily gauge whether you're using full travel based on how close the O-ring is to the zip tie.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    ^^This.

    I suggest putting a zip tie loosely around your shock shaft, then letting all the air out and fully compressing the shock. Then tighten down the zip tie all the way with it flush against the (compressed) shock body. The zip tie now marks full travel, and you can more easily gauge whether you're using full travel based on how close the O-ring is to the zip tie.
    ahhhh...got it. Thanks hillarman and drewbird, makes sense.

  75. #75
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    I've been on my NM3 w/Vivid Air and Fox 36 for two months now. I came from a Demo 8 with Fox Rc2 coil. My setup now feels pretty close to my Demo 8. I test rode NM3 w/Monarch right before I purchased my MN3 and I notice much more ramp up on the Mpnarch compared to the Vivid.

    I do like the lock out on the Monarch, it made the bike climb much better than w/ the Vivid. But I still managed two 2,200 ft. climbs both in an hour with the Vivid.

  76. #76
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    Wanted to conclude my findings here with my CCDB air CS. After letting all the air out of the shock it bottoms out with a 1/2" left on the shaft. This showed me that I had a 1/2 " that I was not using (previously experienced an inch of shaft showing after O-Ring); took a quarter turn of HSC off to see if that'll get me using the last bit.

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    Can anybody comment on what the CS does to the NM3's climbing ability?
    The 'big trips' I had planned never materialized (and are probably on hold for a while - 3 month old's take up a lot of your free time ).
    So, I am turning my Fox 36/Vivid into a bit more trail/all mountain bike. Thinking of the CCDB AIR CS or the new Fox Float X?

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    I got a Nomad with the Monarch ... I had a CCDBa CS from my Tracer that fit so tried it out ... I personally wasn't a big fan of it ... I prefer the Monarch. I found with the CCDB you either tuned it for good DH plushness but shit climbing or good climbing and kinda harsh ...

    I find the monarch to get much better at doing both ... since SC doesn't sell the CCDB as an upgrade on the nomad (like they do on other models) it makes me wonder if the shock is suited at all to the bike. My findings were not that great ... ended up selling my CCDB

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevinciSean View Post
    Can anybody comment on what the CS does to the NM3's climbing ability?
    Not much, but much better on everything else than Monarch that it's not a bad shock.

  81. #81
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    Well after a year of tuning the Monarch my impressions are completely the opposite. Trying to do everything with air pressure and volume bands just does not work at my weight (220 lbs with gear). Add in the vague rebound detents and inconsistent rebound changes with each 'click'.
    I get either:
    a. The air pressure required to keep the bike from sinking too far into its travel all the time means that it is a 150 mm bike, or
    b. I get the full travel that I expect to have but the bike has so much sag that I am always riding it in the middle compression setting and bashing cranks on everything because there is too much initial sag.
    In fact my V-10 with its Void pedals better than my Nomad with a Monarch.
    The Monarch does have amazing small bump compliance and plushness but that is not enough to outweigh everything else that is wrong with it. Maybe I have a dud but in 10 months of discussing how to tune it properly with SRAM not once have they offered to check it to see if there is an issue with the shock.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmiliu View Post
    I got a Nomad with the Monarch ... I had a CCDBa CS from my Tracer that fit so tried it out ... I personally wasn't a big fan of it ... I prefer the Monarch. I found with the CCDB you either tuned it for good DH plushness but shit climbing or good climbing and kinda harsh ...

    I find the monarch to get much better at doing both ... since SC doesn't sell the CCDB as an upgrade on the nomad (like they do on other models) it makes me wonder if the shock is suited at all to the bike. My findings were not that great ... ended up selling my CCDB
    Your findings on the ccdba is pretty much what I've experienced. I have the CS function on mine and it doesn't help that much. I find that when I dial down lsc it descends like a monster but bobs a lot on climbs. Turning up lsc it will climb tremendously better, but not be as plush on the downs. Thinking I could up the psi by 5 and run the lower lsc setting to find a better balance. That's the ccdba tho...constant tinkering

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    Are you running a CCDB now? From my experience ... I can def sympathize with your comments, but the CcDB makes it worse not better.

    I'm heavy as well .. 260 with gear .. I run like 270ish psi in the monarch. I hear ya ... I have talked with Santa Cruz a bit and it seems that the guys there have two modes they run in ... one is bike park mode where they drop sag to 35-36% and bike is full squish but pedaling suffers a tad or in trail mode ... where they run 30% and bike pedals like crazy, but it's super tough to get the last 1" of travel unless you hit something crazy hard!

    I find running in the 30% sag model bike feels incredible .. while I don't use that last bit of travel ... bike feels super compossed and takes it all while still being plush.

    When I ran the CCDBa cs ...I basically had to have two tunes, one for trail one for DH (basically backing off LSc and LSR) and dropping sag to like 40% (i had standard can).

    DH felt great ... about on par with the Monarch with same sag and just as shit of pedaling

    In trail mode if felt great for pedaling but not supple at all ... so I prefered the monarch over this.

    So for my pov ... I think the monarch while not perfect, is better suited than the CCDB ... there's probably better shocks out there ... I just don't think the CCDB is one. I'm curious if the Fox X2 might be better for this ... going to wait on reviews.

    In the meanwhile, a buddy has a spare Vivid around from his nomad so I'm going to give it a shot to see how it does on the nomad.

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    SmittyPDX ... glad to see someone else found the same thing, I was starting to feel like I was the only one that felt the CCDB was not suited that well to the nomad ... having said that, I really loved it on the previous bike (tracer2).

    One little tidbit on the Monarch I got from the santa cruz guys is that you really want a digital gauge ... apparently the Monarch settles into the 30-35% sag over a fairly large PSI range 20 or so ... and 4-5 psi really does make a different.

    I have 5 bands in now ... and I found for me that I noticed a big difference between 271 and 276 psi ... it would be hard to be that accurate with a analog gauge.

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    I'm borrowing a Vivid from a buddy that got it on his Nomad and switched to a Monarch since he wanted more a trail bike ... so I'll be able to see how the vivid fares over the Monarch and CCDBaCS.

    So far I prefer the monarch over the ccdba ... but I agree that it's tough to get the last 1" of travel out of the Monarch, nless you run much more sage ~40%

  86. #86
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    Why do you prefer the Monarch over the DBair?

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    I had the Monarch and don't like it, need more support at mid travel, more pedals strikes, much air in the can for a proper sag and I weight 177lbs, it was supple and nice but not great.
    Since I had the DB air XV can (1 large spacer and 2 small) from Nomad mk2 I try and with the base tune from Cane Creek I found it more support at mid travel, reduce pedals strikes, more traction and when I trade it it was January with loamy trails and I note changes in that type of terrain, for me is a great shock and don't change much from the base tune.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerrickT View Post
    Why do you prefer the Monarch over the DBair?
    The short answer is .. I think it's a better all around shock.

    The long version of my experiences with the CCDBa CS:
    - I loved it on my Intense Tracer2, made the bike pedal better and be more smooth
    - on the Nomad3, I could never find a happy setting. Using the normal can (which is recomended) and recomended tune (on the cc lounge site). It felt good for pedaling but it wasn't very supple when compared to the Monarch.
    - if I wanted supple I had to back off a couple clicks on LSR/LSC and then it was DH plush, but didn't pedal super well.
    - I tried the CS mode with the more DH tunes and pedaling didn't really improve.
    - ironically I was still not able to get full travel with the ccdb

    So basically i find that the monarch pedals as well as the CCDBa but is more supple in the beginning part of the travel.

    I am running 5 bottomless rings now in the Monarch and I find it super supportive in the mid stroke but still super supple and ride height feels good. The nomad is a low bike so the pedal strike is always going to be an issue. Having said that I've adjusted my pedal strokes now ... I only get one strike a ride or less, but you do need to be mindful.

    When I go do DH stuff, I run a bit less pressure and about 40% sag and then it's super smooth ...

    I like having the 3 compressions switches ... I find the middle position nice one super buff trails .. otherwise always run open.

    This weekend I borrowed my buddy's VIVID of his Nomad3 (he switched to a monarch) so it will be interesting to see how this one performs, see if I like it better than the Monarch ...

    One more note on the whole CCDB thing ... Santa Cruz offeres it as an upgrade on a lot of their bikes, but never has on the Nomad, I thin that something to also think about.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmiliu View Post
    The short answer is .. I think it's a better all around shock.

    The long version of my experiences with the CCDBa CS:
    - I loved it on my Intense Tracer2, made the bike pedal better and be more smooth
    - on the Nomad3, I could never find a happy setting. Using the normal can (which is recomended) and recomended tune (on the cc lounge site). It felt good for pedaling but it wasn't very supple when compared to the Monarch.
    - if I wanted supple I had to back off a couple clicks on LSR/LSC and then it was DH plush, but didn't pedal super well.
    - I tried the CS mode with the more DH tunes and pedaling didn't really improve.
    - ironically I was still not able to get full travel with the ccdb

    So basically i find that the monarch pedals as well as the CCDBa but is more supple in the beginning part of the travel.

    I am running 5 bottomless rings now in the Monarch and I find it super supportive in the mid stroke but still super supple and ride height feels good. The nomad is a low bike so the pedal strike is always going to be an issue. Having said that I've adjusted my pedal strokes now ... I only get one strike a ride or less, but you do need to be mindful.

    When I go do DH stuff, I run a bit less pressure and about 40% sag and then it's super smooth ...

    I like having the 3 compressions switches ... I find the middle position nice one super buff trails .. otherwise always run open.

    This weekend I borrowed my buddy's VIVID of his Nomad3 (he switched to a monarch) so it will be interesting to see how this one performs, see if I like it better than the Monarch ...

    One more note on the whole CCDB thing ... Santa Cruz offeres it as an upgrade on a lot of their bikes, but never has on the Nomad, I thin that something to also think about.
    Please post your thoughts ones you try the vivid vs monarch. Thanks!

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    will do .. jazzanova riding it this weekend for some bike park laps and a few XC ones too, I'll post my initial impression ... I'll likely be able to keep the shock for a few weeks so if anything changes I'll post more.

    On thing I've seen though which is unfortunate .. it seems that adding bottomless tokens to the vivid seems a much tougher job than on the monarch (at least from what I found online). i was hoping you can just pop the can off like on the monarch.

  91. #91
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    So today was able to try out a Vivid on my Nomad3 (this came of a Nomad3 as well, so it's the proper tune).

    I did a one hour xc loop (technical with about 700ft of climbing) at the local ski hill (camp fortune), and then I got about 8 runs on the DH side of things on the chair. Fairly rocky/technical/rough Quebec type DH trails.

    My impressions are very very good. I think I like it better than the Monarch. It's far better in my opinion than the CCDB and feels different from the Monarch.

    Some things I noticed
    1. seems more linear, I was able to get almost full travel.
    2. It has a much more controlled composed feel, I ran 2-3 clicks of compressions and a bit of LSR for the XC side, still sucked up everything but rode a bit higher and felt faster. Didn't have that same super squish feel that the monarch has of the top ... but it was still plush, just in a different way (can't really explain)
    3. If I had to pick a word, it would be composed ... this shock feels so composed, which I guess jives with other reviews I've read which describe the ride as dampened.
    4. I think for my weight (260lbs) this might be a better shock for me.
    5. When I went over to the downhill side, I ran the XC setting and shock felt great.
    6. After a few runs I back off the compression all out and took 2 clicks of LSR off and the bike because much more plush.
    7. I'm curious to try the same settings on xc side of things
    8. Bike still pedaled super well.

    So color me impressed :-) I think I might be buying this vivid off my buddy, still wanna do a bit more riding esp xc ... but I'd say for more dh's stuff it's def a winer and feels great at XC too.

    Next weekend I'll take it to Mont St. marie for some 2000ft climbs and we'll see how it goes ... on that climb I def used the compression switch on the monarch.

  92. #92
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    I'd agree on your opinion for the most part, mainly because the VA is pretty coil like. The Nomad I thinks killer with a coil.

    My wife's nomad, which was my old bike, has a CCDBACS on it, and I've never been that impressed. It's been a pig to set up, as others have experienced, and getting the balance for everything is near on impossible. That's not to mention some of the annoying quirks of the CCDB Shock also.

    I have a Float X2 on my bike and feel it's a significantly better shock. I think it would also be spot on with the Nomad, but I would be tempted by the coil version on her bike too.

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    I'm hoping that the new CCDB Coil CS doesn't have the same issues as the Air. I was planning on buying this shock as soon as I could.

  94. #94
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    I'm surprised by the dislike of the CCDBA. I'm wondering if it's related to body weight? (I'm currently around 170lbs.) The Monarch is a good shock and I would say it's better than what I had previously experienced with stock shocks on SC bikes (e.g. Fox RP23), but I found the CCDBA CS superior to the Monarch for typical trail and DH oriented riding. To call the DBA piggish seems a bit extreme. You're riding a 165mm travel bike. Is there an expectation for it to pedal like an XC bike? The firm setting on the Monarch is definitely superior to the CS on the DBA, but when open the small bump absorption at speed of the DBA is better. At times I may not eek out the last bit of travel, but do I care? Not really if the bike feels good over the terrain. I should also add that I did do more tinkering with the DBA than I did with the Monarch. I currently also have a Fox X2 and a Vivid. I need to get more miles in on the X2 on trails I'm familiar with, so I'm hesitant to make too much of a comparison, but I would say it's pretty similar to the DBA w/ the XV can, 2 LG bands, and maybe a smaller band. I haven't used the Vivid at all so far.

    I will add that I did find the CS a little disappointing in that it didn't do more to lock out the shock, but for the most part I climb to descend so it's an okay trade for me.

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    It's quite possible that it's the weight that's a factor. I'm actually a fan of the CCDBA, I used it on my Tracer2 for 2 years (replacing a RP23) and I found it awesome, on the Tracer. It fixed all the things I didn't like about the RP23 .. it made the mid stroke more supportive and also made the bike feel plusher ... the RP23 tended to pack up and get stuck on repeated fast hits ... the CCDBA was awesome, made my bike a ton better.

    On the Nomad i just never really found a happy medium, it was either DH plush but nowhere near as good a pedaler, or it was firm and great pedaler but not as plush which is why I though the Monarch was a better compromise (though not a perfect shock by any means).

    I realize that it's a 165mm bike, but having ridden it with the Monarch and Vivid now, it's quite obvious that it can be both a good pedaler and a good dh machine which is why I initially bought the bike, I wanted a one bike solution ... I've got a 15 month old, so having a DH and XC bike just doesn't work anymore, since I only get one ride a week, and I'd rather do mostly XC with a little DH thrown in.

    One thing I've always had a problem with the CCDBa with was that on the Tracer2 and Nomad I was never really able to get full travel, leaving about 25% on the table, shock felt great but didn't get the last bit out of it. I found for me I had to lower the LSC by a few clicks and have almost 0 HSC to get close to full travel, but once I did that, then the bike didn't have the same composure. It was more wallowey ... so I just ran more sag for DH ...

    The Vivid ... I need more time with it but the initial impressions are very good. I def prefer it over the CCDBa .. and I think I like it better then the monarch too, but I want to get a few more weeks or riding ... I'm also going to do some back to back testing on the same run (chair access) and swap shocks out.

    My initial impression is that the Monarch feels much more buttery on the small stuff when peddling XC, but ramps up fast and make the bike feel like it has a bit less travel on DH (with the sag set for XC that is). If I drop the sag to about 35-40% on the Monarch it feels much better for DH, but then you don't have the same XC performance.

    The Vivid for me (and my weight) just feels better all around a i think, peddling xc feels just as efficient as the Monarch (i was running a few clicks of LSC), but with the same settings on DH it felt better ... once I turned the LSC off on dropped a few clicks of LSR it really came alive on DH trails (but I didn't ride the same settings, the DH ones on the XC stuff ... that's next weeks trial).

    if I were to describe the Vivid it's Dampened, composed and supportive while being compliant. I'll take a few more weeks to try out the shocks and I'll post a thread comparing them more in depth .. since I know when I got my nomad, I was def looking for this kinda info

    Quote Originally Posted by kdiff View Post
    I'm surprised by the dislike of the CCDBA. I'm wondering if it's related to body weight? (I'm currently around 170lbs.) The Monarch is a good shock and I would say it's better than what I had previously experienced with stock shocks on SC bikes (e.g. Fox RP23), but I found the CCDBA CS superior to the Monarch for typical trail and DH oriented riding. To call the DBA piggish seems a bit extreme. You're riding a 165mm travel bike. Is there an expectation for it to pedal like an XC bike? The firm setting on the Monarch is definitely superior to the CS on the DBA, but when open the small bump absorption at speed of the DBA is better. At times I may not eek out the last bit of travel, but do I care? Not really if the bike feels good over the terrain. I should also add that I did do more tinkering with the DBA than I did with the Monarch. I currently also have a Fox X2 and a Vivid. I need to get more miles in on the X2 on trails I'm familiar with, so I'm hesitant to make too much of a comparison, but I would say it's pretty similar to the DBA w/ the XV can, 2 LG bands, and maybe a smaller band. I haven't used the Vivid at all so far.

    I will add that I did find the CS a little disappointing in that it didn't do more to lock out the shock, but for the most part I climb to descend so it's an okay trade for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdiff View Post
    I'm surprised by the dislike of the CCDBA. I'm wondering if it's related to body weight? (I'm currently around 170lbs.) The Monarch is a good shock and I would say it's better than what I had previously experienced with stock shocks on SC bikes (e.g. Fox RP23), but I found the CCDBA CS superior to the Monarch for typical trail and DH oriented riding. To call the DBA piggish seems a bit extreme. You're riding a 165mm travel bike. Is there an expectation for it to pedal like an XC bike? The firm setting on the Monarch is definitely superior to the CS on the DBA, but when open the small bump absorption at speed of the DBA is better. At times I may not eek out the last bit of travel, but do I care? Not really if the bike feels good over the terrain. I should also add that I did do more tinkering with the DBA than I did with the Monarch. I currently also have a Fox X2 and a Vivid. I need to get more miles in on the X2 on trails I'm familiar with, so I'm hesitant to make too much of a comparison, but I would say it's pretty similar to the DBA w/ the XV can, 2 LG bands, and maybe a smaller band. I haven't used the Vivid at all so far.

    I will add that I did find the CS a little disappointing in that it didn't do more to lock out the shock, but for the most part I climb to descend so it's an okay trade for me.
    Do I remember correctly, you ordered a large N3 to compare with your medium?
    How did it go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvan.Being View Post
    It's a whole different price range, but if I was shopping for a new shock I'd also read this thread PUSH Industries Elevensix: Review
    Everyone who's ridden one is pretty over the moon about the ElevenSix and it Push really seem to have the customer service side of it dialled. It's a lot of cash, but if I was going to spend money on a shock I think I would save up the extra dollars and just jump to the ElevenSix. After forking out for the bike its going to be a "next season" upgrade, but I'm definitely intrigued by the ride reports
    I have to agree. Lots of Mk3s will be hitting market place with the MK4 out, I rode vivid, went to ccdb cs, now riding push elevensix. I am not sure you need to spend $1200 on a shock, but this bike LOVES a coil shock. Totally transformed the bike. Less pedal strikes, better preload for jumps, less rake on the fork = less high speed front tire washouts. This is the way the bike should have come from the factory. Linear, coil shock.

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