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  1. #1
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    Carbon disbonding issues....

    So i am on my my second TRc frame after my first was warrantied due to the lower pivot attachment came disbonded. After about 100 miles on the new frame I can already tell the same thing in the same place is going to happen and I will require another warrantied frame. I've read the LTc TRc and the XCc all have this same issue in the same exact spot. I've also heard that this might have been fixed on the BronsonC. Anybody have these issues, and if so how many frames have you gone through? At this rate ill be replacing frame and/or rear triangle every 2-3 months!!!! Was this issue actually fixed on the BronsonC as well??? The frame is stronger than anything else I've ever ridden its just this one weak spot that is starting to drive me nuts!

  2. #2
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    Sounds like if it is a consistent issue there will probably be a fix in the pipeline from the OEM. A reputable mfg will work to rectify an engineering/production error even if it may take time to show up as a fix. Stay in contact with the company and you may be pleased with the results.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersedona View Post
    Sounds like if it is a consistent issue there will probably be a fix in the pipeline from the OEM. A reputable mfg will work to rectify an engineering/production error even if it may take time to show up as a fix. Stay in contact with the company and you may be pleased with the results.
    Oh trust me I am, I love this bike and SC regardless of this issue. I'm just trying to understand how widespread this issue is as I've seen it on every carbon frame from 2010 on. The rest of the frame and carbon is impeccable and I have absolutely no complaints other than this one area.

  4. #4
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    Carbon disbonding issues....

    On my 2nd frame, a 2013 now, starting to get the same circle crack again. Haven't called Willie yet.

  5. #5
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    Hi,

    I am on my 3rd TRc swingarm the first was an 135mm (V1?) version, the second was an 142mm. This is in the space of 5/6 months. For my 3rd I was considering asking them for an alu version.

    It sucks because I love the bike but clearly there is an issue.

  6. #6
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    My friends NomadC also had the same circle crack in the rear triangle around the axle threads. Hopefully moving forward with the full carbon V10 and the Bronson it will be a non issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickShepherd View Post
    Hi,

    I am on my 3rd TRc swingarm the first was an 135mm (V1?) version, the second was an 142mm. This is in the space of 5/6 months. For my 3rd I was considering asking them for an alu version.

    It sucks because I love the bike but clearly there is an issue.
    I love the carbon but I can't keep having a down bike for 2 weeks every 3 months due to this issue. So from what I've read TRc, XCc, LTc, and NomadC all have the same issues? What about the BronsonC, was anything changed on the pivot point?
    Last edited by h20-50; 05-14-2013 at 10:53 PM.

  8. #8
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    I'm on my first frame, a new 2012, it has just developed the crack after 6 months.

    I too hope that SC update their design here, a 5 year warranty means little when you're dealing with the hassle of changing bikes twice (or more) a year.

    It's a shame because the TRc feels absolutely bomber for trail riding, and I love it, but the niggle will always be there until the production is updated.

    Can anyone explain how they've changed the manufacturing for the Bronson?

  9. #9
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    Any images available of this fault discussed

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by craftworks View Post
    Any images available of this fault discussed
    +1.
    .Hoog just texted me and said it's "Surface area to G2 tangential force vector ratio optimization. "

  11. #11
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    Plenty of threads if you search here/google for "santa cruz" carbon crack circular/linkage etc

  12. #12
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    Is the actual place where the frame is cracking an area of great stress?

    Does the crack get bigger over the course of time or it just appears??

    My question would be: Could you potentially ride the frame for the rest of the season and then swap it when the season is done??

  13. #13
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    Carbon disbonding issues....

    Here's what the crack looks like:

    Carbon disbonding issues....-imageuploadedbytapatalk1368459228.009628.jpg

    That's from the frame that was warrantied. My 2013 frame isn't that bad yet.
    It's not a structural crack in the carbon layup. It's a dis/unbonding (as the thread title says) of the threaded metal insert for the lower pivot bolt and the carbon of the rear triangle.

    As far as the update on the Bronson frame - it's just something that was mentioned in the 4/1 press release. I'll find the quote in just a sec.

    Edit:
    Here's the bullet point from the press release:
    • Co-molded aluminum hardware on frame pivots: no bonding.

    I assumed that meant a fix to this issue.
    I mentioned it in the 4/1 thread and I think that's what people are referring to as the fix.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoro View Post
    Is the actual place where the frame is cracking an area of great stress?

    Does the crack get bigger over the course of time or it just appears??

    My question would be: Could you potentially ride the frame for the rest of the season and then swap it when the season is done??

    Yes the crack does get worse over time. Although, I think you could ride it for quite a while with no adverse effects.

    As far as waiting for the end of the season - I'm in northern California and there is no "season". I'm lucky enough to ride all year long.

  15. #15
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    Here is my crack on my first 2012 frame which was replaced with a 2013 frame


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Here's what the crack looks like:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1368459228.009628.jpg 
Views:	4050 
Size:	166.0 KB 
ID:	798665

    That's from the frame that was warrantied. My 2013 frame isn't that bad yet.
    It's not a structural crack in the carbon layup. It's a dis/unbonding (as the thread title says) of the threaded metal insert for the lower pivot bolt and the carbon of the rear triangle.

    As far as the update on the Bronson frame - it's just something that was mentioned in the 4/1 press release. I'll find the quote in just a sec.

    Edit:
    Here's the bullet point from the press release:
    • Co-molded aluminum hardware on frame pivots: no bonding.

    I assumed that meant a fix to this issue.
    I mentioned it in the 4/1 thread and I think that's what people are referring to as the fix.
    This is what I was referring to. I hope this fixes the issue and I really hope that the same method is used in the 2014 TRc when they do come out. I have a sneaky suspicion that I will end up with a 2014 frameset one day

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Here's what the crack looks like:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1368459228.009628.jpg 
Views:	4050 
Size:	166.0 KB 
ID:	798665

    That's from the frame that was warrantied. My 2013 frame isn't that bad yet.
    It's not a structural crack in the carbon layup. It's a dis/unbonding (as the thread title says) of the threaded metal insert for the lower pivot bolt and the carbon of the rear triangle.

    As far as the update on the Bronson frame - it's just something that was mentioned in the 4/1 press release. I'll find the quote in just a sec.

    Edit:
    Here's the bullet point from the press release:
    • Co-molded aluminum hardware on frame pivots: no bonding.

    I assumed that meant a fix to this issue.
    I mentioned it in the 4/1 thread and I think that's what people are referring to as the fix.
    What do you suspect would happen if you carried on using the frame after this crack appeared? I've not taken one of these apart but I'm assuming from what you're saying that the metal insert would eventually lose any connection with the frame and it'd be impossible to tighten the bottom link, is that correct?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    What do you suspect would happen if you carried on using the frame after this crack appeared? I've not taken one of these apart but I'm assuming from what you're saying that the metal insert would eventually lose any connection with the frame and it'd be impossible to tighten the bottom link, is that correct?
    That's what I think would happen, the whole thing would just spin freely with no connection to the rear triangle.

  19. #19
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    I had no idea this was an issue. Now you all have me worried. Guess I'll keep an eye on that area...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    What do you suspect would happen if you carried on using the frame after this crack appeared? I've not taken one of these apart but I'm assuming from what you're saying that the metal insert would eventually lose any connection with the frame and it'd be impossible to tighten the bottom link, is that correct?
    I could feel mine going before I even saw the hairline crack. The back end started twisting under heavy effort and felt sloppy. I suspect this is what it would feel like if the pivot hardware was loose. Checked mine, rode it... still felt terrible. Probably about 2 rides later the crack was visible. I think before you got to the point you couldn't tighten it, you'd be pretty disappointed with the lack of stiffness in the lower link. If the insert is not circular, it might not spin, but it will still feel terrible.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by robsetsfire View Post
    I could feel mine going before I even saw the hairline crack. The back end started twisting under heavy effort and felt sloppy. I suspect this is what it would feel like if the pivot hardware was loose. Checked mine, rode it... still felt terrible. Probably about 2 rides later the crack was visible. I think before you got to the point you couldn't tighten it, you'd be pretty disappointed with the lack of stiffness in the lower link. If the insert is not circular, it might not spin, but it will still feel terrible.
    I completely agree with this statement especially if you ride pretty hard and kick the back end out often. If you just XC ride and take time enjoying the trails you should be fine with the crack but it will eventually require a warranty frame and/or rear triangle. But if you bomb the trails it should probably be replaced the first chance you get just in case. The good news is that SC warranty dept is spot on, just email them a photo or two of the crack and a copy of the purchase receipt and they will take care of you.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubikeman View Post
    I had no idea this was an issue. Now you all have me worried. Guess I'll keep an eye on that area...
    I don't think you should be too worried, it won't self destruct on the trail by any means.

  23. #23
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    I thought this was a TRc issue. Is it also an issue with the TBc and TBLTc? I was hoping one would be my next bike.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMM View Post
    I thought this was a TRc issue. Is it also an issue with the TBc and TBLTc? I was hoping one would be my next bike.
    Don't let this thread deter you at all. The frames are rock solid, provide excellent stiffness and can be put through their paces without any hesitation. This issue isn't with the carbon it's with this one little insert and depending on how you ride some people have never had this issue . I ride my bike fairly aggressive and I expect that's why I see this issue, but it wouldn't stop me from buying another SC carbon bike, not for a second!

  25. #25
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    I wonder if SC is already working the update into the other models, delaying ship times? My TBLTc is taking a long time to arrive.

  26. #26
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    We can but wonder, it'd be nice to hear something directly from Santa Cruz on this matter, do any staff post in this forum? I don't recall ever seeing anything from them but I know some other manufacturers' staff do.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by h20-50 View Post
    Don't let this thread deter you at all. The frames are rock solid, provide excellent stiffness and can be put through their paces without any hesitation.
    Except for when they break and you have to rely on SC's warranty service or if you are out of warranty buy a new rear triangle.

    This is the sort of failure [and of course falling uphill and cracking a seatstay!] that freaks people out about buying an expensive carbon MTB.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Except for when they break and you have to rely on SC's warranty service or if you are out of warranty buy a new rear triangle.

    This is the sort of failure [and of course falling uphill and cracking a seatstay!] that freaks people out about buying an expensive carbon MTB.
    I see your point. SC's warranty is five years and as long as you're the original owner it's straight forward, no hassle replacement. They also have a lifetime crash warranty at minimal cost so if you're over five years you can use this. I don't know about you but if I get 5 full years on a bike I'm pretty stoked, investment well worth it! I ride here in Texas so I can ride year around, 5 years is A LOT of miles on my end....

    My purpose of this thread wasn't to deter anyone as I think SC is a top notch company who is willing to stand behind their product. I was just curious how many people have this issue and the frames that were effected.

    I'm sure the other members that have talked with Willie in the warranty dept as well can tell you that SC takes care of its customers and Willie is responsive to any concerns or questions you have.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by h20-50 View Post
    I see your point. SC's warranty is five years and as long as you're the original owner it's straight forward, no hassle replacement. They also have a lifetime crash warranty at minimal cost so if you're over five years you can use this. I don't know about you but if I get 5 full years on a bike I'm pretty stoked, investment well worth it! I ride here in Texas so I can ride year around, 5 years is A LOT of miles on my end....
    My AL Nomad is it's 5th year and going strong I live in coastal BC so we ride year round. I could ride that bike another 5yrs if I wasn't just jonesing for something new. I probably will ride it another year or two before I get another ride. At which point I'll sell it or keep it as a spare bike for friends.

    If I had to start buying carbon rear triangles through the SC no fault replacement program it's still going to be $300-$400 a pop. And what if I want to sell my carbon SC bike after 2yrs? Who wants to pay much for it without access to a warranty or the no fault replacement program?

    I'm not anti-SC at all. I'm totally ready to spend another 5-7yrs on a new SC bike. But I think these are legit questions to ask before dropping $5K-$7K on a new ride.

    I read an interview in Decline Magazine where a sponsored Cannondale Enduro rider explained that he asked for an AL frame because he didn't think carbon was durable enough for him. That's a guy who gets free product.
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  30. #30
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    I think this issue has a huge effect on purchasing regardless of their amazing carbon fiber. First it is the hassle of dealing with it, so why bother. Second, if you want to sell your bike who is going to buy it knowing this issue and that they are not covered under warranty. Hence its value has significantly dropped. So why pay $2700 for a frame that outside of warranty isn't worth very much. I had a TRc and purchased with the intent of keeping it, but in the end I wanted more bike so I sold it. I am glad I was able to do this before this issue came up, but I also feel bad for the guy I sold it to.

  31. #31
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    Does this pertain to all VPP carbon frames minus the Bronson or is it isolated frames. It would suck if this is inevitable regardless.

  32. #32
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    The Tallboy LTc has co-molded inserts as well, so this should not be an issue with that frame. (have been riding the *(&%%$ out of mine for about 6 months now)
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    The Tallboy LTc has co-molded inserts as well, so this should not be an issue with that frame. (have been riding the *(&%%$ out of mine for about 6 months now)
    What year is your TBLTc?

    EDIT:
    Never mind I didn't even notice your sig

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    The Tallboy LTc has co-molded inserts as well, so this should not be an issue with that frame. (have been riding the *(&%%$ out of mine for about 6 months now)
    Thanks, good to know!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    . . . [and of course falling uphill and cracking a seatstay!] . . . .
    But dude, I totally stalled out on a rock, man!!



    That thread was great . . . that guy hasn't come back since!
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    But dude, I totally stalled out on a rock, man!!



    That thread was great . . . that guy hasn't come back since!
    +1 - if I ever get and break a SC carbon frame I want to do it with style like that...
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  37. #37
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    Doh! So sad. My Black/White/Orange frame is starting to get the crack at the same spot. Its not too bad yet so I'll probably wait a bit before contacting Santa Cruz. But I guess I'll be getting a new frame since that color rear triangle is no longer available? Too bad since I actually really liked that color scheme.

    Read another thread where someone was saying their warranty claim for the same crack on a tallboy was denied the second time around.
    Anyone else get their warranty claim denied?

  38. #38
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    Kind of bummed out with this issue. Most of the frames (all but two) use the same bonding technique i believe meaning all these frames even replacements will be susceptible to this? someone said only the bronson and the tallboy ltc use the new process that solves this issue. i just hate to be a year out of warranty and have to do a crash replacment.

  39. #39
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    I emailed Santa Cruz about this when the thread was started but have received no reply, very disappointing.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    I emailed Santa Cruz about this when the thread was started but have received no reply, very disappointing.
    You wouldn't happen to have access to one of these would you?

    Carbon disbonding issues....-red-phone1.jpg

    If you do, perhaps you could try that instead of sitting around passively . . . .
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  41. #41
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    Re: Carbon disbonding issues....

    It can be very hard to reach SC over the phone sometimes. I would say I got their voicemail 9 times out of 10...


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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    You wouldn't happen to have access to one of these would you?

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]803868[ATTACH]

    If you do, perhaps you could try that instead of sitting around passively . . . .
    Sending them an email is being proactive. I think you're misunderstanding the term.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    Sending them an email is being proactive. I think you're misunderstanding the term.
    Wait . . . . sending out an email and waiting around for 2 weeks for them to get back to you is being proactive

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but if there's something in this world that I want, I'm not about to just sit there hoping it will appear . . . .
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  44. #44
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    Most people don't have time to chase a company about a problem they should be addressing in the first place. If a company has email support then they should use it, don't you agree?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    Most people don't have time to chase a company about a problem they should be addressing in the first place. If a company has email support then they should use it, don't you agree?
    I agree, BUT my only experience getting something from SC under the no fault replacement program required at least 4-6 phone calls and loads of emails.

    I was taken care of - eventually - but it req'd a lot of persistence.

    And I was paying in this instance.

    It seems to me the warranty/CS department is understaffed for their workload.

    To their credit they did get me sorted and back on the bike.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I agree, BUT my only experience getting something from SC under the no fault replacement program required at least 4-6 phone calls and loads of emails.

    I was taken care of - eventually - but it req'd a lot of persistence.

    And I was paying in this instance.

    It seems to me the warranty/CS department is understaffed for their workload.

    To their credit they did get me sorted and back on the bike.

    Over the years, have had to warranty 2 frames....each time I was responded to via email within a day or 2.....and my replacement parts were on my doorstep within 4-5 days.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    Over the years, have had to warranty 2 frames....each time I was responded to via email within a day or 2.....and my replacement parts were on my doorstep within 4-5 days.
    I wish.

    I was driving to Baja from Canada so I let them know I'd be dropping the frame off and grabbing the new one on a specific day/time. They said that was cool, but failed to mention it was a holiday and they'd closed.

    LOL

    So I finally just mailed the frame off to them before I crossed into Mexico.

    Got an email a few days later [a month plus into the process] saying here is your RMA# put it on the box. I wrote them back and said that ship had already sailed.

    Luckily I had 2 more months to deal with them before I headed north through a friend's place in LA who rec'd and stored the frame for me.

    My LBS in Canada would have helped me out, except the $250 frame in the US would have been over $500 in Canada.

    I'm sure SC will look after something that's wrong, but I wouldn't assume it will be fast or that something is going on unless you are getting feedback from them that they are on it.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    Most people don't have time to chase a company about a problem they should be addressing in the first place. If a company has email support then they should use it, don't you agree?
    Of course, and I prefer email as well . . . but c'mon man . . . you don't hear anything after 2 weeks and you continue to wait? I give a company 2 business days to respond after an email and if I get nothing in return, I'm on the phone. Maybe I'm impatient . . . maybe I'm persistent, but all I know is that I am not willing to sit around for 2 weeks waiting for someone to email me back.
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  49. #49
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    Why are you two going on and on about whether email is proactive or not? Nobody cares... take it to PM.

  50. #50
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    Well mine cracked disbonded after less than 3 months of riding. 2012 orange and black frame. Puzzling issue for sure. I mean *uck, less than 3 months, 30 rides. I ride fairly aggressively, but by no means am I hucking the thing off cliffs or the like...

  51. #51
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    Do you think they will give you the option to upgrade for a small fee or is it too early for that still and you get identical replacements?

  52. #52
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    I just recently bought a 2012 trc from another person not know these issues. Looking at mine I can just barely make out the crack but it is forming. Does anyone know if the aluminum rear triangle would fit these bikes?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpk1080 View Post
    Do you think they will give you the option to upgrade for a small fee or is it too early for that still and you get identical replacements?
    Puzzled about that. Will check it out once I go through the warranty route.

  54. #54
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    Santa Cruz replied to my question regarding what changed about the pivots for 2013:

    Quote Originally Posted by Santa Cruz
    Basically we changed the bonded inserts from round parts to square-ish
    parts. You can see this if you look at one of the pivots from the
    link-side. This helps bonding adhesion
    That's interesting to know and it would be hard to notice visually unless you were comparing a 2012 to a 2013 frame. Maybe this combined with the stiffer 12mm axle has reduced the amount of frames disbonding?

    I had another thought, if they drop the TRc for 2014, would the Solo rear end mount to the TRc? The Solo has slightly longer chainstays which I imagine might help with those wanting to 650b their TRcs, but I wonder how the matte black/green solo would look on the 2013 matte silver frame? This could be worth enquiring about for those of us (like me) who don't want/can't afford a new 27.5" fork and wheelset.

  55. #55
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    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by new View Post
    I just recently bought a 2012 trc from another person not know these issues. Looking at mine I can just barely make out the crack but it is forming. Does anyone know if the aluminum rear triangle would fit these bikes?
    Good question. Probably. But don't quote me on this. Maybe a good solution if can't get the whole frame warrantied. A guy had second hand TRC warrantied in the TRC thread. Maybe worth a shot.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    Santa Cruz replied to my question regarding what changed about the pivots for 2013:



    That's interesting to know and it would be hard to notice visually unless you were comparing a 2012 to a 2013 frame. Maybe this combined with the stiffer 12mm axle has reduced the amount of frames disbonding?

    I had another thought, if they drop the TRc for 2014, would the Solo rear end mount to the TRc? The Solo has slightly longer chainstays which I imagine might help with those wanting to 650b their TRcs, but I wonder how the matte black/green solo would look on the 2013 matte silver frame? This could be worth enquiring about for those of us (like me) who don't want/can't afford a new 27.5" fork and wheelset.
    Hm wonder when this change happened? If the insert is now square, how are we seeing people with 2013 frames that has the circular crack? I guess if it was a running change and some early 2013 frames have the old insert and some has the new

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    Hm wonder when this change happened? If the insert is now square, how are we seeing people with 2013 frames that has the circular crack? I guess if it was a running change and some early 2013 frames have the old insert and some has the new
    The insert for the 2013 TRc is def not square, still circular not sure how he is getting square??

    However if you look at the Bronson, TB2, Solo inserts they are square...

    Somebody with a Bronson please take a photo of the square insert and post it for everyone to see.

  58. #58
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    round on my 2013 the drive side is square though

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    round on my 2013 the drive side is square though
    Square on both inboard and outboard sides? My outboard side is round, not square.

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    their all round on the outside.

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    Is yours cracked Kidd? Thanks for taking a pic.

    I would assume that it's only the drive side that has been changed as (from what I've seen) that's the only side that has been cracking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    their all round on the outside.
    Awesome, thanks! Now if someone can post the Bronson pivot point we can see the difference. The Bronson is co-molded and square on the outside. Looks quite a bit beefier as well.

  63. #63
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    i had to check some pics to verify it was the drive side that cracked on my 2012. i forgot. everything is peachy-keen on my 2013 as long as the circus monkey hub holds up.

  64. #64
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    my Feb 2012 nomadc was due for a cleaning and greasing so I checked out the pivot areas and no cracks so far! I had a blur ltc for a year and never had any cracks develope on it either. The area certainly looks like it could be a weak link, but there are a lot of people out there riding carbon SC bikes so I imagine it's a very low percentage of bikes that this is an issue with.

  65. #65
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    So before I got and spend the money on a 2013 swing arm. Did they change the design to fix this problem?

  66. #66
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    So Guys,

    Any image/photo of what the fix actually looks like?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fury25 View Post
    So Guys,

    Any image/photo of what the fix actually looks like?
    See post #10 & 11

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    Quote Originally Posted by The #1 Dude View Post
    See post #10 & 11
    Hi #1 Dude,

    I was asking about the bonded pivot sleeve with the external rectangular shape that was referenced as the 'fix' to this issue

    Are you referring to the posts on this page (i.e. #60 and 62?) because posts 10&11 (page 1) have no photos.

    So, if we are looking at #60 and 62 . are we sure this is the definitive 'fix' or is it more like the Bronson's which we haven't seen yet?

    regards

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    I'm going through this process with my Tallboy. Hopefully they give me a new Tallboy 2. I'd rather not deal with this issue again if it has indeed been fixed with the newer models.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clinter View Post
    I'm going through this process with my Tallboy. Hopefully they give me a new Tallboy 2. I'd rather not deal with this issue again if it has indeed been fixed with the newer models.
    The TB2 could have other issues that won't show up until they've been on the trails a while.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  71. #71
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    Yeah I understand that there could be other issues with any bike out there, but I know there is an issue with the one I have and would prefer to avoid it again if possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    The TB2 could have other issues that won't show up until they've been on the trails a while.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clinter View Post
    I'm going through this process with my Tallboy. Hopefully they give me a new Tallboy 2. I'd rather not deal with this issue again if it has indeed been fixed with the newer models.
    Just curious, how many miles did you have on your Tallboy before you noticed the defect?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfs69 View Post
    Just curious, how many miles did you have on your Tallboy before you noticed the defect?
    I would say I have ridden roughly 3,500 miles, possibly more.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fury25 View Post
    Hi #1 Dude,

    I was asking about the bonded pivot sleeve with the external rectangular shape that was referenced as the 'fix' to this issue

    Are you referring to the posts on this page (i.e. #60 and 62?) because posts 10&11 (page 1) have no photos.

    So, if we are looking at #60 and 62 . are we sure this is the definitive 'fix' or is it more like the Bronson's which we haven't seen yet?

    regards
    Sorry, it is probably the ones you mention, by kidd and h20-50.

    I just had a look at a mate's 2012 Tallboy Carbon swingarm (142x12 version) and it has the same squared off insert. But it is not obvious that this shape carries all the way through as the outside is painted.
    His brother-in-law also has a 2010 Tallboy Carbon with the same circular crack as shown in a few earlier posts, which he says has been there for over two years, but hasn't developed into any problems with the insert. He's been told to keep an eye on it and let his shop know if anything happens.

    I also had a look at a Bronson Carbon in our local shop today, and again, it's not possible to see the shape from the outside because it's painted.

  75. #75
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    I've just found this issue on my white NomadC...assuming they replace it under warranty, will I be given just a white front triangle or a whole new frame with the 142x12 rear??

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ban View Post
    I've just found this issue on my white NomadC...assuming they replace it under warranty, will I be given just a white front triangle or a whole new frame with the 142x12 rear??
    Yours is cracked on the front triangle? All of these other ones are on the swingarm.
    In any case, I think if they have the same color in stock they'll just replace the part. But if they don't have it then they give you a new frame(you'd just swap the shock over)

  77. #77
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    yes it's the front triangle....! I hope they give me a new whole frame!
    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    Yours is cracked on the front triangle? All of these other ones are on the swingarm.
    In any case, I think if they have the same color in stock they'll just replace the part. But if they don't have it then they give you a new frame(you'd just swap the shock over)

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ban View Post
    I've just found this issue on my white NomadC...assuming they replace it under warranty, will I be given just a white front triangle or a whole new frame with the 142x12 rear??
    I had the same issue with my white Nomad and thought I could do the same thing. I sent the entire frame less the shock back, asked if I could get a new frame in black. SC said they could do a new black front triangle, but I would have to purchase a new rear triangle as a crash replacement for $450.00. They also offered me a set of new links for an additional $250.00 too, but I opted to use my old ones and pay the $450.00 difference for the new rear end only. They also informed me that since my original frame had a QR rear end, they could not sell me a thru axle rear end - even though I was paying for it, which I was not happy about. So after everything was agreed upon on my end, I asked to have my old rear triangle returned to me, seeing I had to buy the new one and they weren't giving me any credit for it as part of the crash replacement deal. They agreed to send it back with my new frame, but a month later when I got my new frame, the old rear end was missing. After numerous phone calls and promises that the rear end would be sent back, they finally got upset with my dealer and said my old rear end was gone and they weren't going to send it back period.

    The whole thing really left a bad taste in mounth and knowing what I know now, I would have never sent the whole frame back.
    Last edited by Ridge_Rider; 07-11-2013 at 01:28 PM.

  79. #79
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    this is what I fear the most, that I`ll have to pay for the rear and the links...in any case, did they have white front triangles when that happened to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridge_Rider View Post
    I had the same issue with my white Nomad and thought I could do the same thing. I sent the entire frame less the shock back, asked if I could get a new frame in black. SC said they could do a new black front triangle, but I would have to purchase a new rear triangle as a crash replacement for $450.00. They also offered me a set of new links for an additional $250.00 too, but I opted to use my old ones and pay the $450.00 difference for the new rear end only. They also informed me that since my original frame had a QR rear end, they could not sell me a thru axle rear end - even though I was paying for it, which I was not happy about. So after everything was agreed upon on my end, I asked to have my old rear triangle returned to me, seeing I had to buy the new one and they weren't giving me any credit for it as part of the crash replacement deal. They agreed to send it back with my new frame, but a month later when I got my new frame, the old rear end was missing. After numerous phone calls and promises that the rear end would be sent back, they finally got upset with my dealer and said my old rear end was gone and they weren't going to send it back period.

    The whole really left a bad taste in mounth and knowing what I know now, I would have never sent the whole frame back.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ban View Post
    this is what I fear the most, that I`ll have to pay for the rear and the links...in any case, did they have white front triangles when that happened to you?
    Honestly, I didn't ask about a new white triangle - the frame was a season old and pretty beat up (even the rear had some good scars on it). I also figured that a newer color would get me a thru axle rear end - which is what I wanted. I'm glad I got a new frame and $450.00 wasn't a bad deal to get it, I just wish they would have sent back the old rear end like they originally promised and sold me a thru axle rear end...

  81. #81
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    okay, cheers for the info, I guess I'll just have to wait and see what SC says about it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridge_Rider View Post
    Honestly, I didn't ask about a new white triangle - the frame was a season old and pretty beat up (even the rear had some good scars on it). I also figured that a newer color would get me a thru axle rear end - which is what I wanted. I'm glad I got a new frame and $450.00 wasn't a bad deal to get it, I just wish they would have sent back the old rear end like they originally promised and sold me a thru axle rear end...

  82. #82
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    My "new" TRC is on its way. Warranty was great/easy to deal with. I hope the new one will last more than 3 months.

    The DT 142 axle is NOT included. 37$ upcharge to get it. So factoring in the new axle caps for my 2 wheel sets, axle + shipping back the thing the SC, that circular crack just cost over 150$ at least....

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by h20-50 View Post
    Awesome, thanks! Now if someone can post the Bronson pivot point we can see the difference. The Bronson is co-molded and square on the outside. Looks quite a bit beefier as well.
    I just boxed up my 2012 black/white/orange frame this morning to ship back to SC for the crack. Checked the inside of the swingarm and the insert is square just like in the picture above.
    So, still not sure if a fix has been put in.

  84. #84
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    I'm in the market for a new MTB this winter and considering some carbon options, but threads like these make me feel like I should stay with AL. It's not sexy, but the peace of mind could be worth it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm in the market for a new MTB this winter and considering some carbon options, but threads like these make me feel like I should stay with AL. It's not sexy, but the peace of mind could be worth it.

    Benn abusing my TallboyC since 2009....no issues with dis-bonding.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
    Bucky the Cat

  86. #86
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    oups square inserts on the 2012 models also so no "new" improvement on the 2013 frame from that perspective!!!
    Carbon disbonding issues....-img_4318.jpg

  87. #87
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    Just an update of my broken NomadC frame....I've just received a new green frame, 142 axle included which I didn't have to pay...! cheers Santa Cruz!

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ban View Post
    Just an update of my broken NomadC frame....I've just received a new green frame, 142 axle included which I didn't have to pay...! cheers Santa Cruz!
    I just got my replacement TRc frame last week. Had to pay for the axle.

  89. #89
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    Carbon disbonding issues....

    Well in my case, it was SC Spanish dealer the one who sent me the free axle along with the frame not SC directly....

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm in the market for a new MTB this winter and considering some carbon options, but threads like these make me feel like I should stay with AL. It's not sexy, but the peace of mind could be worth it.
    Stay with AL. I went through the same decision last year, finally believed all the guys on MTBR that blasted me for daring question the durability of carbon...sure, carbon is as strong as al, but it's stuff like this that's an issue. I "treated" myself to a carbon blur ltc, and now I read this and wish I had gone AL. Just one more thing I have to worry about. Peace of mind is priceless.

  91. #91
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    Carbon disbonding issues....

    My warranty replacement frame received in Dec. of 2012.

    Carbon disbonding issues....-imageuploadedbytapatalk1375229296.859024.jpg

    Waiting to hear back from Willie.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    My warranty replacement frame received in Dec. of 2012.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1375229296.859024.jpg 
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    Waiting to hear back from Willie.
    damn that sucks. Wonder how long my warranty replacement frame is going to last. At least this time you'll just need a new rear triangle right?

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    Ugh I see my resale value continuing downward.

  94. #94
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    Carbon disbonding issues....

    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    damn that sucks. Wonder how long my warranty replacement frame is going to last. At least this time you'll just need a new rear triangle right?
    Yeah. Should just get a new rear triangle.

  95. #95
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    That sucks mestapho. I wonder how long until SC offers us TRc owners a solution that doesn't include time without a bike every 6 months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    That sucks mestapho. I wonder how long until SC offers us TRc owners a solution that doesn't include time without a bike every 6 months.
    I wish I was on a six month cycle! I'm every 2-3 months

  97. #97
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    Wow talk about a let down... My 'new' warranty replacement is coming in today. I'll be looking at a crack in a 2-3 months based on your pics Mestapho...

    Please let us know what they sent you back.

    BTW, does anybody know if it's possible to 'upgrade' to another model, say a Bronson, or even downsize to a TR aluminium frame?? Dealing with shipping a bike and/or rear triangle every 2-3 months is unacceptable for a frame of this quality. Plus it's time consuming and leaves you without your bike for at least a week or more + building it back after...

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoro View Post
    BTW, does anybody know if it's possible to 'upgrade' to another model, say a Bronson, or even downsize to a TR aluminium frame??
    SC can do whatever they want to resolve an issue with a customer. So yes it's totally possible to get a different frame. Those bikes are available and they can be sent to you.

    Whether or not SC would be willing to do that is another story, but it certainly doesn't hurt to ask them and see what they will do for you.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Got my RA#. Love the SC cust. service! Wish I didn't need to use it.

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    Talk to SC about what your options are, I know of people who've been set up with a Bronson after numerous TRc issues. As someone else said, it doesn't hurt to ask!

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