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Buthcher brake jacking?

2K views 22 replies 16 participants last post by  dangerousmav 
#1 ·
Anyone riding a Butcher notice any brake jacking?
 
#4 ·
Tell me you didn't buy into SC's marketing hype for APP and believe they figured out how to make a single pivot without brake jack issues??? You can minimize it with a good shock tune from the likes of PUSH (changes the mid stroke damping to eliminate wallowing) and improved rider braking technique.

Have FUN!

G MAN
 
#5 ·
APP has to do with the shock rate- not the travel path of the rear axle. The rear wheel is still follows a very similar arc when compared to Bullit and Heckler, which would lead me to believe, yah- there's gonna brake jack. This is my first suspension rig- and I haven't had the chance to ride the Nomad or Blur over serious terrain.
 
#14 ·
Haus Boss said:
APP has to do with the shock rate- not the travel path of the rear axle. The rear wheel is still follows a very similar arc when compared to Bullit and Heckler, which would lead me to believe, yah- there's gonna brake jack. This is my first suspension rig- and I haven't had the chance to ride the Nomad or Blur over serious terrain.
Brake jack isn't a function of the path of the rear axle.
 
#19 ·
Good quote from above article:
"The problem of rise on the rear is less severe than that of dive on the front. The springing is stiffer on the rear and so for a given weight transfer the rise will be less than the dive, particularly with the additional dive effect due to the raked fork legs anyway."

Forward weight transfer also takes weight off the rear wheel; in effect, this makes for a stiffer shock spring and less-sensitive suspension. Also, as weight is removed from the rear wheel, rear-tire traction is reduced. Even if we constructed a theoretical bike with a rear brake that had absolutely zero influence on the rear suspension, there would still be suspension extension, stiffening and reduced rear-wheel traction because of weight transfer.
 
#20 ·
TwoHeadsBrewing said:
Good quote from above article:
? said:
"The problem of rise on the rear is less severe than that of dive on the front. The springing is stiffer on the rear and so for a given weight transfer the rise will be less than the dive, particularly with the additional dive effect due to the raked fork legs anyway."

Forward weight transfer also takes weight off the rear wheel; in effect, this makes for a stiffer shock spring and less-sensitive suspension. Also, as weight is removed from the rear wheel, rear-tire traction is reduced. Even if we constructed a theoretical bike with a rear brake that had absolutely zero influence on the rear suspension, there would still be suspension extension, stiffening and reduced rear-wheel traction because of weight transfe
? said:
"The problem of rise on the rear is less severe than that of dive on the front. The springing is stiffer on the rear and so for a given weight transfer the rise will be less than the dive, particularly with the additional dive effect due to the raked fork legs anyway."

Forward weight transfer also takes weight off the rear wheel; in effect, this makes for a stiffer shock spring and less-sensitive suspension. Also, as weight is removed from the rear wheel, rear-tire traction is reduced. Even if we constructed a theoretical bike with a rear brake that had absolutely zero influence on the rear suspension, there would still be suspension extension, stiffening and reduced rear-wheel traction because of weight transfe
BTW article makes no sense in the real world, because when you descend you transfer your weight over the back wheel, so negates the issue he describes.
 
#22 ·
No it does not, unless you are constantly on steep angles. Even then its not dismissed entirely.

You have to understand the concept of whats happening. Follow the direction of the force applied to the bike by the rear wheel, and you can easily see that braking will compress the shock and cause it to compress. Thats brake squat, as William pointed out.

I can't really think of any designs currently on the market that actually jack under braking. If you remember the LTS from GT then you really know what brake jacking is. That thing tried to shoot you over the bars on every squeeze.


As for comparisons being relative, thats more a problem with the internet than anything else. People complaining that a Butcher won't climb as well as a Blur XCc and other stupid pointless comments. It won't climb as well as a squirrel either. The Butcher probably can't eat as many fish as a bear either. Clearly, its a shitty bike.

Apples to apples here. Put the Butcher in the middle ring, sit down and pedal smoothly and it should truck up the hill nearly as well as anything else IN THE SAME CATEGORY. The APP should keep it relatively active without blowing through its travel, meaning your HA won't go to hell and the bike should remain stable. It won't be as good as a full active design still (like a nomad) because chain torque will still cause the rear end to stiffen up a bit. Hardly a reason to not make a climb, but probably enough to complain about on the internet.
 
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