Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 67
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,787

    Bronson and -1 degree angleset?

    Who's running one on their Bro and besides slacking the front end some, what does it do to the seat tuble angle, BB and wheelbase? I assume it steepens the STA and lowers the BB a smidge (how much?), while lengthening the wheelbase a fair bit more.

    After a 2 month delay, I finally got my Bronson and this thing rips trail pretty darn nicely. To make it perfect for me, I would like to slack the front end a bit more, steepen the back end and lower the BB some. Hoping an angleset will accomplish this all to some degree. I know the Nomad3 does all of this, but don't want the extra travel or that slack of a front end as I already have a Banshee Rune with same geometry as well (65 front, 73.5 rear, 13.4" BB). Thanks!
    Ride On!

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8

    Bronson and -1 degree angleset?

    Also looking to do the same with a works headset -1 and would be interested in some feed back if it's worth doing


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by VicP View Post
    Also looking to do the same with a works headset -1 and would be interested in some feed back if it's worth doing


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That would be nice, especially as alternative to a CC one. Love how the Bronson rides, but perfect aggro trail bike for me would have 66 deg front, 74 deg rear, 13.3" BB max, 5.5-6" max travel on 650b wheels and carbon frame with solid pivots/grease ports. Basically Banshee Spitfire or Knolly Warden travel and geometry on SC chassis would be sweet!
    Ride On!

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: meta4x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    84
    Try offset bushings as they are cheaper and easier to swap out again if you dont like them

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    94
    I've got the Works -1.5. I'm happy with it for the type of riding I do. It's also dead silent unlike the Cane Creek. I also considered the offset bushings but it does slightly alter the suspension leverage curve and may also result in some rubbing of the rear tire on the seat tube. I would say that climbing is a bit more difficult with the angleset and 160mm fork, but worth it for me.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    226
    I have a works headset on another bike and it is great. It does add stack height under the head tube and weight. I've used the offset bushing as well. The offset bushing are much more subtle change. For instance, two offset bushing give only a fraction of the slackening effect compared to a -1.5 headset. If you want a significant change, I would try the headset.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    76
    +1 on the Works (mine is -1), a lot better in terms of maintenance/adjustment/creaking over the Cane Creek. -1.5 would have probably been a better call for the trails I ride in hindsight.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by dromond View Post
    I have a works headset on another bike and it is great. It does add stack height under the head tube and weight. I've used the offset bushing as well. The offset bushing are much more subtle change. For instance, two offset bushing give only a fraction of the slackening effect compared to a -1.5 headset. If you want a significant change, I would try the headset.
    Thanks all, very helpful. Only after subtle changes, don't need the bike to be really slack, so -1.0 degree would be max. Who makes the offset bushings for the CTD shock and this frame. Sounds like the offset bushings only slacken the front end a bit (0.5 degree), but what about the BB, STA, WB? Any changes there?
    Ride On!

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Thanks all, very helpful. Only after subtle changes, don't need the bike to be really slack, so -1.0 degree would be max. Who makes the offset bushings for the CTD shock and this frame. Sounds like the offset bushings only slacken the front end a bit (0.5 degree), but what about the BB, STA, WB? Any changes there?
    BB will be lower, STA slacker. I don't know about WB but not much change there I don't think?

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,869
    I was planning on doing the Works version as I love it on my 6 Point BUT... the Bronson requires an external lower cup to pull it off and would actually RAISE the BB by about 4-5mm as I recall. Something I wasn't willing to do as mine is already lifted some by going with a 160mm fork and I feel it's too high as is. The Nomad is looking dialed as I wanted shorter CS's too. A cross between the Nomad and Bronson is what I was really after and looks like the newly released Tracer 275 may be it!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    437
    heresy, maybe, but try out a 26" rear wheel....just sayin. slacken the head angle about a degree and lower the bb about 1/4" in one move...

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CalEpic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    626
    I'm running a Cane Creek Angleset -1* on my Bronson with a 150mm Pike. I built it up this way from the beginning so I can't offer any comparisons vs. a standard headset. The bike feels very dialed with this set-up. No excessive wandering on climbs and don't feel under-gunned on the steeps. I'm coming off a bigger, slacker bike (Intense Uzzi w/ Totem) and wanted a somewhat similar trail feel - mission accomplished. I would echo what others have said about going with a Works Components headset. The Cane Creek is not the best design. After a lot of fussing I've gotten mine to be mostly quiet but what a PITA that was. A long, drawn out way of saying go for it!

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I was planning on doing the Works version as I love it on my 6 Point BUT... the Bronson requires an external lower cup to pull it off and would actually RAISE the BB by about 4-5mm as I recall. Something I wasn't willing to do as mine is already lifted some by going with a 160mm fork and I feel it's too high as is. The Nomad is looking dialed as I wanted shorter CS's too. A cross between the Nomad and Bronson is what I was really after and looks like the newly released Tracer 275 may be it!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Is the lower external cup of Works angleset much higher than the standard CC external cup? I think the CC external cup is like 13mm stack height. If Works is much taller than that, than no bueno for me. I actually rode the Bro last night with fork lowered to 120 on fast, smooth, twisty, dual slalom'ish turns for a bit lower center of gravity (lower BB) and bike did pretty well (hugged the turns better), despite the much steeper front end. If this bike was about 1 degree slacker up front (66), 1 degree steeper out back (74) and 1/3" lower (13.2") with smidge shorter rear stay, bike would be a total trail slayer. Everything else about the bike is pretty much bang on. Did I say how fast this thing rides, accelerates (sprints) and rails and carries speed like a MoFo! Yes, I agree the Tracer 275 looks good spec/geometry wise as well since I think the Nomad is too long (wheel base) and too much travel for flowy, twisty, jumpy trail slaying.
    Ride On!

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by CalEpic View Post
    I'm running a Cane Creek Angleset -1* on my Bronson with a 150mm Pike. I built it up this way from the beginning so I can't offer any comparisons vs. a standard headset. The bike feels very dialed with this set-up. No excessive wandering on climbs and don't feel under-gunned on the steeps. I'm coming off a bigger, slacker bike (Intense Uzzi w/ Totem) and wanted a somewhat similar trail feel - mission accomplished. I would echo what others have said about going with a Works Components headset. The Cane Creek is not the best design. After a lot of fussing I've gotten mine to be mostly quiet but what a PITA that was. A long, drawn out way of saying go for it!
    Go for the Works or the Cane Creek? I like the stack height and pricing better of CC, but don't want to fiddle if it requires multiple re-adjustment and finagling to get it right.
    Ride On!

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    459
    Tip for the Cane Creek Angleset: Apply layer of the Santa Cruz provided Marine Grease under the gimbals, overtighten and then back down to a point where the handlebar turns normally. This has worked for me, no knocking sound in fast rough trail sections.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    443

    Bronson and -1 degree angleset?

    Works/Angleset has 2mm higher stack height than regular headset.

    1 degree will:
    - steepen seat by about 0.3 degree
    - BB only drops by a few mm and then raised by stack so a wash
    - WB lengthened by about 0.2" maybe little more

    Bushing:
    - drop BB more
    - slacken seat
    - WB stays about the same

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,869
    Works lower cups are 15mm and CC regular headset lower cups are 12mm so... 3mm height difference which is offset by the slacker angle so should be close. I kind of like the idea of running a 26" rear with a big tire (Big Betty 2.4) for shuttle days; may have to try that as the outer circumference won't be that much different!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Last edited by Gman086; 09-12-2014 at 11:11 AM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I need lower (especially with a taller fork) so not an option. I kind of like the idea of running a 26" rear with a big tire (Big Betty 2.4) for shuttle days; may have to try that as the outer circumference won't be that much different!
    A rear wheel is WAY easier to swap out the an angleset...but I also have lots of wheels in the garage...

    I run 26" rear all the time with 27.5" front, even use a 26x2.3 version of the 27.5x2.3 front, feel no need to try and run bigger rear....and even if I did try and run big as possible rear to get back to close to the same circumference, then what's the point cause it will just raise it back up when I want it lower and slacker.

    Hope that info is helpful!

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bajaguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    173
    I was running a -1.5 Works on my Bronson and just switched to a -1 CC Angleset. Ran the Works for a year and it was fine but I wanted the steering to be a tad quicker.

    The Works does have a taller lower cup than the CC 15mm vs. 12mm but it actually balances out to be the same since the lower cup on the CC has to sit on top of a gimbal so it adds 2-3 mm of stack height. After a couple rides I prefer the -1 degree much more and the bike is perfect now.

    As far as installation the Works is an easy install. The CC takes a little more finesse. I had experience with one when they first came out and it gave me fits but I eventually got it to be silent. I was dreading installing the one on my Bronson but I got the install perfect the first time (dead silent). I just made sure to really go over CC's instructions, watched their youtube video again, and just took my time. I also use anti-seize instead of grease in the cups where the gimbals sit.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    Works/Angleset has 2mm higher stack height than regular headset.

    1 degree will:
    - steepen seat by about 0.3 degree
    - BB only drops by a few mm and then raised by stack so a wash
    - WB lengthened by about 0.2" maybe little more

    Bushing:
    - drop BB more
    - slacken seat
    - WB stays about the same
    Just the info I was after, thanks! Does SC totally refrain from one using the offset bushings on Bronson by voiding warranty with shock and/or frame?
    Ride On!

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by bajaguy View Post
    I was running a -1.5 Works on my Bronson and just switched to a -1 CC Angleset. Ran the Works for a year and it was fine but I wanted the steering to be a tad quicker.

    The Works does have a taller lower cup than the CC 15mm vs. 12mm but it actually balances out to be the same since the lower cup on the CC has to sit on top of a gimbal so it adds 2-3 mm of stack height. After a couple rides I prefer the -1 degree much more and the bike is perfect now.

    As far as installation the Works is an easy install. The CC takes a little more finesse. I had experience with one when they first came out and it gave me fits but I eventually got it to be silent. I was dreading installing the one on my Bronson but I got the install perfect the first time (dead silent). I just made sure to really go over CC's instructions, watched their youtube video again, and just took my time. I also use anti-seize instead of grease in the cups where the gimbals sit.
    Thanks, that's great info! Figure at worse case scenario I can get someone who is pretty good at installing the CC ones to be hassle free. I think -1 degree would be perfect as well, so as not to deviate too much from intended geometry/handling, but give a bit more hen pushing the bike on the descents some. 66/74, <13.3" BB works good for all trail riding for me.
    Ride On!

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: davemk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    465
    Bikegeo is a good tool for estimating geo changes based on fork a2c length or angleset changes. It should give you a good idea of how a -1 degree change in the Bronson HA will effect the rest of the geo.

    geometryCalc

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CalEpic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    626
    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Go for the Works or the Cane Creek? I like the stack height and pricing better of CC, but don't want to fiddle if it requires multiple re-adjustment and finagling to get it right.
    Works is what I'd buy.

    Others have had success with the Cane Creek and as I mentioned, mine is pretty good now, but honestly, I dread having to take the fork off for service which is due. I used grease and ultimately anti seize when installing and followed the instructions to the letter + the video. Having to tighten the star nut bolt to the point it's ready to pull out of the steerer is ridiculous and we shouldn't have to do that to make a properly engineered headset work. Without taking out the calipers, comparing my CC to my friends' Works, the stack height looks the same. If there is any difference in stack height, it would be so minimal I doubt anyone could tell the difference.

    I'll throw out one more bit of info to muddy the waters even more - With the Cane Creek set I bought, I can choose from .5*, 1* or 1.5* so that will let you do some experimenting if you want to deal with trying to get everything to work correctly.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,787
    Going to pull the trigger on an angleset for the Bro since I could use a little more stability in steeper, more aggro terrain. Thinking of the Works -1.0 since I live and ride in the wet season a lot come late fall/winter/spring here in the NW and wrench at LBS discourage the CC one for me. Anybody know if I can run a ZS lower cup on the Bronson, or does it have to be EC? Was hoping to get this with lower ZS for a bit steeper STA and lower BB, while slacking the front end a bit. 1 0 Degree EC44 - ZS49 - Tapered Headtube Reducer e g Old Giant Glory or do I have to get this? NEW - 1 0 Degree EC44 -EC49 - Tapered Steerer Tube Headset

    Thanks!.
    Ride On!

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Going to pull the trigger on an angleset for the Bro since I could use a little more stability in steeper, more aggro terrain. Thinking of the Works -1.0 since I live and ride in the wet season a lot come late fall/winter/spring here in the NW and wrench at LBS discourage the CC one for me. Anybody know if I can run a ZS lower cup on the Bronson, or does it have to be EC? Was hoping to get this with lower ZS for a bit steeper STA and lower BB, while slacking the front end a bit. 1 0 Degree EC44 - ZS49 - Tapered Headtube Reducer e g Old Giant Glory or do I have to get this? NEW - 1 0 Degree EC44 -EC49 - Tapered Steerer Tube Headset

    Thanks!.
    Looks like I have to get the EC44/EC49 one due to tapered fork/head tube. $125 shipped that is about same price as CC -1.0 cups, not bad.
    Ride On!

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Anyone using an angleset on Bronson?
    By Gman086 in forum Santa Cruz
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-13-2013, 05:27 AM
  2. Bearing ?? 45-degree and 36-degree contact
    By Erik_A in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-08-2013, 10:44 AM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-02-2012, 06:49 AM
  4. Phoenix & AngleSet @ 63 degree = ???
    By louiffe in forum Pivot Cycles
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-31-2011, 06:04 PM
  5. 1 or 1.5 Degree Angleset for 2010 Giant Glory
    By D.I.S.C.O in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-23-2011, 09:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •