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  1. #1
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    Brakes for a Nomad

    Picking up my new Nomad on Monday. For the time being I will be using the XT disc brakes off my Blur classic with 160mm rotors.

    I can't make up my mind on the brakes I want for this baby! My options are to upgrade the XT's to 203mm or buy new Juicy 5's with 185 / 185. The second option involves buying new shifters as my existing brakes are STI.

    I'm 225 lbs and ride aggressive XC. Any suggestions?

  2. #2
    FishZapper
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    I have to go ahead and throw out my vote for Hayes El Caminos. They are the best, most adjustable brakes Ive ever used. I have them on my bullit and couldnt be happier. The wont work with your shifters, but you should be running SRAM stuff anyway

  3. #3
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    Sram

    SRAM huh? I must admit I do like those carbon levers!

  4. #4
    TC3
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    If you wanna keep your STI combo, you can consider a pair of Saint 203mm.
    It will provide plenty of stopping power for your weight.
    Magura Louise FR 210/190 mm has been trouble free on my Uzzi,
    and it modulates better than Saint, and has about the same range of stopping power.

  5. #5
    FishZapper
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTreadOnMe
    I have to go ahead and throw out my vote for Hayes El Caminos. They are the best, most adjustable brakes Ive ever used. I have them on my bullit and couldnt be happier. The wont work with your shifters, but you should be running SRAM stuff anyway
    Nah, no way, NADA. ---, Juicy Seven's (definitely not Five's). I think Blue Sky still has their killer clearance sale on: as I recall $130 for 165mm and $150 for 185mm (which is plenty big for me.) Setup took a 1/2 hour each wheel and I didn't even have to look at the manual. So far silent and they'll stop you cold if you want. Great modulation and adjustable pad contact point via the red knob. Banjo cable adjustment which is cool. If they do the famous 'turkey gobble' (mine didn't), see if they are too mounted too low with the supplied adaptor. They shouldn't grab on the arms of the rotor, just the wavy part. If they gobble, stick a thin washer on the bolt between the adapter and the brake. This gets 'em futher outboard.. Oh yeah, if you ride really hard and crash occasionally, these are tough to break. You might want to move the red knob on the levers to the bottom, where it's more protected. See the website for the pdf.
    RAIL OR F*!%#!*^G BAIL

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by whangen
    Nah, no way, NADA. ---, Juicy Seven's (definitely not Five's). I think Blue Sky still has their killer clearance sale on: as I recall $130 for 165mm and $150 for 185mm (which is plenty big for me.) Setup took a 1/2 hour each wheel and I didn't even have to look at the manual. So far silent and they'll stop you cold if you want. Great modulation and adjustable pad contact point via the red knob. Banjo cable adjustment which is cool. If they do the famous 'turkey gobble' (mine didn't), see if they are too mounted too low with the supplied adaptor. They shouldn't grab on the arms of the rotor, just the wavy part. If they gobble, stick a thin washer on the bolt between the adapter and the brake. This gets 'em futher outboard.. Oh yeah, if you ride really hard and crash occasionally, these are tough to break. You might want to move the red knob on the levers to the bottom, where it's more protected. See the website for the pdf.
    Why not 5's? Nobody seems to use the pad adjustment.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  8. #8
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    Magura Louise FR for sheer power and silent operation. Plus the brake levers are shaped very nicely.... Great for two-finger actuation.

    I'd pick the Hayes brakes in terms of brake lever/reservoir durability. The brake levers are pretty svelte, and feel nearly as good as Magura. They offer really decent power, but stop short of the OTB grip of Magura brakes.

    Avid in terms of adjustment, user-friendliness, and general price. Their power is on par with the Hayes hydro brakes, but I daresay that the Hayes rotors offer more grab than Avids. Avids seem to offer more modulation than Hayes or Magura.

    The only omission here is Shimano hydro brakes and Hopes.
    I hate Shimano stuff, so I haven't evaluated their brakes.... no real reason, just personal preference.
    Hope stuff is just too damn expensive here, so I passed on them.
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  9. #9
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    don't go avid, keep your shimano brakes, if you want to spend it on something go sram shifting.

    Shimano Brakes and Sram Shifting best of both worlds.... (yeah you'll have to get new levers to dump that STI stuff, if you like the STI keep it)

    The avids are over rated, tons of power, excellent lever position, no modulation, and horrible feel.

  10. #10
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    I was offered an almost new pair of xtr disc brakes with 203mm rotors today. I may go for them.

    Sram shifters means sram rear mech doesn't it?

  11. #11
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    Go for the Juicy 7s. 1/2 hour to set up? More like 1/2 minutes. You install them loose, grab the lever to tighten the pads, torque the bolts and you are done. No squeeks, no shimming and several of the online stores have them at $126. They make a carbone set now if you have the extra bucks. I am running Avids with Shimano shifters but really want to go with teh SRAM X.0s.

  12. #12
    Redwood Dancer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle

    The avids are over rated, tons of power, excellent lever position, no modulation, and horrible feel.
    IMO you pretty much got that all backward, bro.

    Excellent lever position? I'll let that go... sure don't know what that means. Almost all quality brake levers have the basic adjustments for throw, contact and rotation (that handbar clamp with a bolt in it).

    Avids have GREAT modulation thanks to the adjustable contact point (red knob) and the wavy rotors plus a host of other improvements - some people complain they have too much modulation, which is certainly valid. But that's down to personal preference.

    Hey, you can even slide your travel coffee mug with a handle up behind the lever and there's a sweet little notch on the back that cradles it... is that cool enough!!!

    The feel of the levers is superb and silky, with a nice fat width where your pointer finger pad rests. You can scar it with a file to make it less slippery, but don't go deep. I wouldn't say they are overrated since even the owners of the Sevens (like me) will admit they do not have raw stopping power unless you really bear down --- ie 'panic stop'. I kinda like this cuz it eliminates OTB adventures. In other words they are not grabby, which as a feature I happen to like. But, be warned, If you're hucking 15-20 cliffs and the runout is maybe ten feet, don't get Juicys. If you ride lots of technical ST and love moderate to big hucks and jumps, Avids will fill the bill just fine.
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  13. #13
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    Avid or Marta, you decide!

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac
    Go for the Juicy 7s. 1/2 hour to set up? More like 1/2 minutes. You install them loose, grab the lever to tighten the pads, torque the bolts and you are done. No squeeks, no shimming and several of the online stores have them at $126. They make a carbone set now if you have the extra bucks. I am running Avids with Shimano shifters but really want to go with teh SRAM X.0s.
    Oh yeah... you got that right. And the price on Sevens is sweet. Marta's are probably a better brake tho tricky to set up (or so I hear). But hey, they're also over $200 a wheel, cuz of the German tariff rules. That sucks so bad.
    RAIL OR F*!%#!*^G BAIL

  14. #14
    Cheesiest
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    What about Saint brakes?

  15. #15
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    Update

    I have been offered a nearly new pair of xtr disc brakes with 203mm rotors which I'm going to buy.

    I HATE those dang STI things! When I grab the brake in an emergency I always end up grabbing a few gears as well. It also makes it hars to set up my bar for one finger braking.

    I'm fitting xt shifters but eventually hope to go for SRAM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac
    Go for the Juicy 7s. 1/2 hour to set up? More like 1/2 minutes. You install them loose, grab the lever to tighten the pads, torque the bolts and you are done. No squeeks, no shimming and several of the online stores have them at $126. They make a carbone set now if you have the extra bucks. I am running Avids with Shimano shifters but really want to go with teh SRAM X.0s.
    The Sram XO's are no big deal, i'll be getting rid of mine. Fancy carbon plate and loads of useless adjustments, no gear indicator and twice the price of XTR. The reason they'll be going though is that after years of using Shimano triggers, i can't adapt to the thumb shift rather than index finger. They shift ok, but NO better than my three year old XTR's and i tend to knock the small trigger with my thumb while wrestling the bike uphill which results in changing to a harder gear just when i need it least. I'll be going back to XO twisters to use with the XO rear mech.( which IS a big improvement over Shimano.)

    All IMO ofcourse
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  17. #17
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    Saints?

    Quote Originally Posted by intheways
    What about Saint brakes?
    Sorry, don't have any experience with them, nor do I know anybody that has... maybe you should start a thread?

    I take that back, do know one guy... sez he likes them. Price is good for what you get but you do need shimano specific hubs (or I think you can buy an adapter for the rotor to go to 6 bolt IS, but thats just more money.) May need a special spline tool also... ie, more money. Don't know that for sure but that's the way the big S operates these days.
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  18. #18
    TC3
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    Quote Originally Posted by whangen
    Sorry, don't have any experience with them, nor do I know anybody that has... maybe you should start a thread?

    I take that back, do know one guy... sez he likes them. Price is good for what you get but you do need shimano specific hubs (or I think you can buy an adapter for the rotor to go to 6 bolt IS, but thats just more money.) May need a special spline tool also... ie, more money. Don't know that for sure but that's the way the big S operates these days.
    Those Saint brakes used to have normal 6 bolt rotor as an option before.
    You might be able to find these if you search around.
    or, you can just get the Saint calipers and use any kind of 203mm rotors.
    One of my friend is running Saint brakes with 203mm Hayes rotors and loving the combo.
    I would say it has more power than my Louise FR 210mm/190mm (mine modulates better, tho)

  19. #19
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    I just got my Gustavs today.... and I think they're gonna work excellently for my Nomad. I'll let ya'll know how they do.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombardier
    I just got my Gustavs today.... and I think they're gonna work excellently for my Nomad. I'll let ya'll know how they do.
    Be sure to wear your helmet
    You can't make a racehorse out of a donkey, but you can make a fast donkey.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by starsky
    Picking up my new Nomad on Monday. For the time being I will be using the XT disc brakes off my Blur classic with 160mm rotors.

    I can't make up my mind on the brakes I want for this baby! My options are to upgrade the XT's to 203mm or buy new Juicy 5's with 185 / 185. The second option involves buying new shifters as my existing brakes are STI.

    I'm 225 lbs and ride aggressive XC. Any suggestions?

    I understand you have the new XT brakes.
    Do you know the old XT version ? (4 piston ?)
    I think those are still one of the best systems available. They can be found pretty cheap these days, are super reliable, and have plenty of stopping power & good modulation.
    I know I'm getting one of these for my Nomad.

  22. #22
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    Of course you can afford Gustavs... your're from Baden-Wurtemburg, Germany, for crips sakes!

    When you figure in the devalued US dollar and the sundry tariff issues, plus the famous German economic protectionism, they probably cost you in American dollars about $3.49 a wheel! Sorry, just jealous.

    How about talking to some of countrymen and giving the rest of the world a break on rates exchange!
    RAIL OR F*!%#!*^G BAIL

  23. #23
    Super Genius gone noMAD
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    Quote Originally Posted by whangen
    Of course you can afford Gustavs... your're from Baden-Wurtemburg, Germany, for crips sakes!

    When you figure in the devalued US dollar and the sundry tariff issues, plus the famous German economic protectionism, they probably cost you in American dollars about $3.49 a wheel! Sorry, just jealous.

    How about talking to some of countrymen and giving the rest of the world a break on rates exchange!

    Well as we in Europe pay about 3000$ for a nomad frame (with some discount), I would say that we deserve to get few things cheaper (but my nomad will still have Juicy Carbon on it )

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombardier
    I just got my Gustavs today.... and I think they're gonna work excellently for my Nomad.
    Yeesss, go with the best of the two worlds. My Gustavs arrived short after christmas and the frame to mount them had his touchdown yesterday evening. I'm only waiting for the big disk adapters to arrive tomorrow morning.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by whangen
    IMO you pretty much got that all backward, bro.

    Excellent lever position? I'll let that go... sure don't know what that means.
    well I'll help by cluing you in, this is taken directly from avids site, if you look at the shape of the brake lever assembly, not just the lever blade. It is rotated/offset different then any other brake available, it offers a excellent lever position for your hand. read on, might learn a thing or two.

    "Juicy’s work with your hand...not against it. Other hydraulic levers are designed with a high X Factor (that’s the distance from the center of the handle bar to the pivot), which means the arc of the lever’s path actually moves in and away from your hand’s natural movement. All Juicys have the lowest X Factor on the market, so the lever moves comfortably, powerfully, right in line with the direction of your hand. Seems like a small thing, but wait until you ride with a pair." taken directly from www.sram.com


    Quote Originally Posted by whangen
    Avids have GREAT modulation thanks to the adjustable contact point (red knob) and the wavy rotors plus a host of other improvements - some people complain they have too much modulation, which is certainly valid. But that's down to personal preference.
    First off, the red knob, adjustable pad contact point does nothing for how firm the break engages it merely changes the distance between the rotor and pad engaging at the lever. If your brakes are soft and do not have a firm feel, you should bleed your system, this will determine how firmly your brake engages not the distance between your pad/rotor contact point.

    I have worked on/installed (many sets of these breaks) and throroughly tested both the juicy 7 and 5 for a full season. I tried to make these brakes perform as they should. I tried multiple rotor/pad combinations was never able to get rid of there stabbiness or shuttering. This same problem plagues many customers and slowly avid is trying to do something about it quietly. They have released and are shipping a roundagon rotor this year which is suppose to help address some of these issues. I think next should be pad compound.


    Quote Originally Posted by whangen
    In other words they are not grabby, which as a feature I happen to like. But, be warned, If you're hucking 15-20 cliffs and the runout is maybe ten feet, don't get Juicys. If you ride lots of technical ST and love moderate to big hucks and jumps, Avids will fill the bill just fine.
    to each opinion there own right, the juicies are the stabbiest feeling breaks I have felt hands down. They will stop a small car. I'm not trying to pick on you, but I'm not quite sure how jumping and large drops have much to do with brakes. On a side note, a brake with better modulation will stop you faster then a over powerful brake such as the jucies IMO. think ABS.

    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...ht=juicy+power
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...ht=juicy+power
    I agree with kidwoo here no doubt.
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...ghlight=brakes

    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...ht=juicy+power
    pulsing/shuttering/power

    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...&highlight=avi

    SRAM and the shuddering Juicy 7

    Best Alternate Rotors for Juicy

    Rotors that don't suck with Juicy 7's

    paging Juicy 7 owners (OT a little, sorry)

    Potential Juicy 7 solutions

    new pads/rotors to reduce noise on Juicy7s

    I think that's enough, if you do a search you'll find even more related to all of the problems I have listed, I am not just pulling things out of my ass. The shimano is a better system. The clean sweep rotor for the juicies is the best solution but does not solve the problems completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by intheways
    What about Saint brakes?
    The saint and xt share the same caliper, just different colors, same with the levers. same brake system

    Quote Originally Posted by whangen
    Sorry, don't have any experience with them, nor do I know anybody that has... maybe you should start a thread?

    I take that back, do know one guy... sez he likes them. Price is good for what you get but you do need shimano specific hubs (or I think you can buy an adapter for the rotor to go to 6 bolt IS, but thats just more money.) May need a special spline tool also... ie, more money. Don't know that for sure but that's the way the big S operates these days.
    Just order with 6 bolt rotors shimano does offer this, quite simple, no extra charge, no need to change hubs
    Last edited by Castle; 02-15-2006 at 10:25 AM.

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