Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 133
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    9

    Santa Cruz Hightower Frame Defect

    Wanted to post my Santa Cruz warranty experience here and see what you guys think I should do.

    About 4 months ago I bought a new Santa Cruz Hightower 29er. After 2 rides, I noticed that the rear wheel would actually hit the seatpost when the suspension compressed. Obviously that's not supposed to happen. So I took it into the shop where I bought it, and they filed a warranty request. Willie at Santa Cruz said that it was defective and that they'd need to ship me a new frame.

    The first issue is that it's been 6 weeks since I first sent in my warranty claim, and they only just got new frames in stock Ė pretty frustrating considering that I just spent 4k on a new bike that's barely rideable.

    Now that they have new frames in stock, it seems like I'm going to have to pay out of pocket to have all the components swapped over to the new frame. Local shops have quoted about $200 for this. Is it unreasonable for me to ask Santa CRuz to pay for this?

    It seems ridiculous for me to have to pay extra money just to get a bike that actually works as it was supposed to in the first place. This problem has been there from the beginning and was a flat-out manufacturing defect. Not to mention that it's taken 6+ weeks to service my warranty request...

    If I have to pay out of pocket, I'll definitely not be buying another bike from Santa Cruz.

    Here is a picture of the mark made in the frame when the wheel hits it:

    Bad Experience with Santa Cruz Warranty-img_1540-2.jpg
    Last edited by bantin; 07-23-2018 at 09:36 PM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,020
    Honestly you are lucky they warrantied that regardless of fault. That's the type of damage that would show up from it being long shocked.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    9
    Right, except that it wasn't long shocked... This started happening the very first time I rode it.

    I also have a picture of the wheel hitting the frame with the stock shock.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,020
    I didn't say it was. I just said you were lucky they did. As to paying for labor that's a bike industry thing that sucks but is how it seems to be unfortunately.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    9
    Hmm okay Ė wasn't sure if that was standard procedure. Still pretty frustrating, but I guess I'll have to eat the 200 bucks. Thanks for the reply.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: veteran_youth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    783
    The way in which this warranty was handled is pretty much standard across the cycling industry, regardless of brand. As to whether or not you consider it fair, and if it will sour you on the Santa Cruz brand into the future, is up to you. I'd hope the shop you bought it from might help subsidize the situation in some way, but that is strictly their prerogative.

    I am more curious as to what possible warranty issue could be allowing the frame to function properly but allows the tire to hit the seat tube! If I had to make an educated guess it probably just shipped with the wrong stroke shock. Have you deflated it fully to see if it is the correct 51mm stroke or the longer 57mm?

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    5,428
    The build is the shop's responsibility, not SC. It is part of their dealer agreement. If the shop is not willing to tear down and rebuild as customer service you should be upset with them. BTW I doubt they will be accommodating, but your experience would be the same with any bike company.

    I understand your frustration with the time required, but there is nothing SC can do if they don't have frames in stock due to color change overs. The other way to look at it, you will be getting the latest colorway so you will have another year of owning the latest bike.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    5,428
    Quote Originally Posted by veteran_youth View Post
    The way in which this warranty was handled is pretty much standard across the cycling industry, regardless of brand. As to whether or not you consider it fair, and if it will sour you on the Santa Cruz brand into the future, is up to you. I'd hope the shop you bought it from might help subsidize the situation in some way, but that is strictly their prerogative.

    I am more curious as to what possible warranty issue could be allowing the frame to function properly but allows the tire to hit the seat tube! If I had to make an educated guess it probably just shipped with the wrong stroke shock. Have you deflated it fully to see if it is the correct 51mm stroke or the longer 57mm?
    I think you are probably correct. The bumper is missing from the shock to limit it to 51 mm. Pretty simple procedure if the OP wants to keep this setup. Fox or your dealer should be able to handle it and SC would probably just swap the shock as well. Lots of options here.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    867
    That's a crappy shop right there. SC did their part, bike shop is not doing theirs. I would express my displeasure with the shop. They sold you a defective product and are not trying to make it right.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I think you are probably correct. The bumper is missing from the shock to limit it to 51 mm. Pretty simple procedure if the OP wants to keep this setup. Fox or your dealer should be able to handle it and SC would probably just swap the shock as well. Lots of options here.
    That's exactly what I thought when I saw the pictures as well. Which is why I said he was lucky regardless of fault.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,534
    I concur with Salespunk & tuckerjt07. You cannot fault Santa Cruz for selling out of a VERY popular bike. A small mistake happened and they're fixing it. The cost of swapping everything over is a matter you need to talk to the bike shop about. If they're worth their salt they'll hook you up. IF not, you should look for another shop.

    Hope it all works out for you bantin!!
    "There's two kinds of people in this world - Walkers and Talkers." Which one are you?

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OldHouseMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,864
    Shouldnít Santa Cruz hold back frames for warranty issues? It is possible they did exactly this, but still ran out.

    Your shop sucks. Ask if they will split the cost with you.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rscecil007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,759
    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Shouldnít Santa Cruz hold back frames for warranty issues? It is possible they did exactly this, but still ran out.

    Your shop sucks. Ask if they will split the cost with you.
    I had my old Nomad v3 warrantied by Willie (who was awesome to deal with BTW), he told me they do keep frames aside for warranty, but it's a limited number and they still can run out. I also had to wait a few weeks or month to get the color I wanted (Willie gave me my choice of color.)

    But I agree with the others, sounds like SC took good care of you. But understand the frustration with the shop wanting money to rebuild the bike. Honestly, that's a hour job with someone who knows what they are doing.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ColinL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,475
    You guys are ridiculous...

    A car dealer covers labor because the manufacturer warranty covers labor. They don't work for free.

    On a bike, the manufacturer does not cover labor. So you can take the replacement frame and move everything over yourself or you can pay the LBS a reasonable fee to disassemble and assemble.
    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    That's a crappy shop right there. SC did their part, bike shop is not doing theirs. I would express my displeasure with the shop. They sold you a defective product and are not trying to make it right.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    4,186
    Last August I had a warranty on my SC Heckler frame, cracked at seat tube weld. The frame is retired so SC let me pick any other aluminum frame.

    I selected a popular color frame for Tallboy, and waited and waited...the frames were not available and I really only wanted that Orange/Rust color in the aluminum. I think maybe in November or December, I was checking with CC and they said SC offered me a Carbon Tallboy frame since I had waited so long.

    I had no problem with any of it, and thought their warranty solution was quite generous. I have other bikes, so riding something else was not a big deal.

    Actually, i was grateful that they warrantied the Heckler, as I used a shim for 27.2 dropper and hit many a drop on that bike, including some 5-6í with landings on the flatter side. But I showed them the picks close up with the bike fully assembled and shim still in the tube, just the way I rode it. The crack was straight across the weld almost 3/4 way around, so I am guessing they had seen it before as a weld issue? Anyway, I am always going to have at least one SC in the garage.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    taste it
    Reputation: craftworks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    49
    No option to build it up yourself ? save the flash cash

    I understand some bikeshops/manufactures stipulate warranty frame replacements must be built up by authorised bike shop for legalities.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nauc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,986
    did you ask SC about who should be paying for the parts swap?

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    9
    I'm going to talk to the shop again and see what they say. Worst case, I pay a couple hundred bucks for the 2018 colors (which are pretty sweet anyway).

    I measured the stroke length of the shock and it's correct. The rear tire actually hits the frame when the stroke is at just 35mm! So the problem is definitely something with the linkage or the frame Ė*maybe the rear triangle is from a different frame size or something.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,494
    From the Santa Cruz website


    Warranties
    Lifetime Frame Warranty
    Santa Cruz Bicycles will repair or replace at its option any frame it determines to be defective. The warranty will be in effect for lifetime of the original, registered owner. In order to confirm that you are the original owner, please register using our bike registration form at the time of purchase.


    Unless they state labor costs its not included!

    Santa Cruz has the best warranty in the industry! They actually take care of their issues!


    Nothing but good things to say about Willie and Santa Cruz's warranty policy.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    729
    I think this one is a bit of a grey area. I love SC just as much as the next guy but I think this one depends on who built the bike. SC used to ship frames separate from the groupo and the shop would build the bike. I do not believe SC does this anymore (I could be wrong). I believe now they are built in house and get shipped partially disassembled (stem off etc... just as all other brands have always done). If this is the case then how did the bike ever leave SC QC check? And the fact it did should mean they should cover the cost of the rebuild. Fact is the owner paid full pop for a new bike and the issue was present since day one with stock shock, that's a lot different than a a frame that cracked at a stress joint over time etc.. one is negligence the other is a defect.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    465
    I suspect this is a troll post. If the facts here can be corroborated, it would undermine the company with the best reputation for warranty and the strongest written warranty I have seen in this business.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,475
    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT View Post
    I concur with Salespunk & tuckerjt07. You cannot fault Santa Cruz for selling out of a VERY popular bike. A small mistake happened and they're fixing it. The cost of swapping everything over is a matter you need to talk to the bike shop about. If they're worth their salt they'll hook you up. IF not, you should look for another shop.

    Hope it all works out for you bantin!!
    ^THIS^ The LBS needs to take care of you somehow. Tell them your unhappy with paying $200 for something not your fault. You haven't even had it that long. Some friends of mine had same problems with another brand, cracked frame, and shop charged nothing out of pocket as it should be.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    353
    So I have to ask, first of all did you pay full pop for the bike? In a shop's contract with most bike brands they must assemble it for the customer. If you didn't pay full sticker price and the only thing Santa Cruz did was send a new frame for warranty I think your frustration should be directed at them. I have not sold Santa Cruz for 3 years but before that I can tell you that they had very low margins and one of the longer build times on any of their bikes. On top of that, they generally over promised and under delivered on their bikes. In my shop, first I would have gone to Santa Cruz to try to get them to compensate me for the second build time since it was so close to purchase but if they were stubborn and you did not pay full price then I would have to charge something. $200 is very steep for my area, but time is money and I don't blame the shop for charging you something if Santa Cruz was not willing to offset it. While almost every brand has written in their warranty that they only cover parts, most are willing to work with the shop if the problem arises that is a manufacturers spec issue. I would have the shop pursue compensation and if Santa Cruz is not willing to help then I would rethink my purchase.

  24. #24
    SS Pusher Man
    Reputation: mtnbikej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    7,289
    Sorry you had a problem with a new bike....unfortunately, this is a LBS issue, not a SC issue.

    Soooooo.....after 2 rides you noticed the tire was hitting the seat tube.....did you notify the LBS about this right away, or did you continue to ride it this way for months?

    Irregardless....you have 3 options.

    1. pay the shop to do the work.
    2. strip the frame yourself and just get the frame from the shop and build it yourself.
    3. demand the shop take care of it as part of the customer service for you buying a $4000 bike.

    The shop does not have to build the new frame. SC will actually deal direct with the consumer when it comes to warranty issues. I have had a handful of warranty replacements, and not one of them went through a LBS. All frames were sent directly to me.

    The LBS sounds like it would rather rape you for labor and drive you away as a customer, rather than doing what is right and getting a customer back on their bike at whatever cost.

    Plus there is nothing on that bike that requires an special tools to put together other than the BB. There are no headset cups to press in. Labor time would be about an hour.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
    Bucky the Cat

  25. #25
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,383
    Yeah, rereading the OP's first post, he discovered the issue on the second ride, though I wonder why it wasn't discovered on the first ride. The shop should have realized there was an issue when they built the bike and gotten it straightened out before turning it over to their customer. If there was an issue with the frame, that should have been between the shop and SC.
    There are two types of people in this world:
    1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nauc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,986
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill View Post
    I think this one is a bit of a grey area. I love SC just as much as the next guy but I think this one depends on who built the bike. SC used to ship frames separate from the groupo and the shop would build the bike. I do not believe SC does this anymore (I could be wrong). I believe now they are built in house and get shipped partially disassembled (stem off etc... just as all other brands have always done). If this is the case then how did the bike ever leave SC QC check? And the fact it did should mean they should cover the cost of the rebuild. Fact is the owner paid full pop for a new bike and the issue was present since day one with stock shock, that's a lot different than a a frame that cracked at a stress joint over time etc.. one is negligence the other is a defect.
    SC builds the bikes at their factory in SC, ive seen it firsthand. theres this too...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUu7Ma3Dv8A

  27. #27
    Turns right to go left
    Reputation: 410sprint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    546
    Quote Originally Posted by bantin View Post
    I measured the stroke length of the shock and it's correct. The rear tire actually hits the frame when the stroke is at just 35mm! So the problem is definitely something with the linkage or the frame Ė*maybe the rear triangle is from a different frame size or something.
    The rear triangle and linkage are the same for all sizes of HT frames.

    When the shop said this is a warranty issue, did they specifically say why? I'm just confused, you seem to be speculating on what the issue is, I would assume someone at the shop or at SC told you what the problem is. Not flaming you, just confused...

    What tire and wheel size combo are you using?

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    364
    If an LBS charged me to warrantee swap parts on a frame replacement (on a bike that I bought there), they would never get my business again.
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Fatboy
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    "Aah the great indoors - No One Ever"

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    377
    I thought all shops charged for parts swap. But this is a different situation (as someone else noted) than a cracked weld or broken stay.

    Itís not clear to me: does the shock come mounted on the frame from SC? If so, I think SC should step up....if the LBS installed, they should step up and do the swap gratis.


    Either way, weird that it got to customerís hands that way...not that it doesnít suck, but mistakes happen

  30. #30
    psycho cyclo addict
    Reputation: edubfromktown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,484
    Definitely a pain to do a "mulligan rebuild" though, Santa Cruz makes quality stuff for the most part and has some of the best warranty axxion in the business. Their frames are very popular and in high demand so it is no surprise that there is a wait to get a replacement.

    Many local bike shops are not exactly flush with cash. It costs them out of pocket for the labor. Maybe they can meet you part/half way on the labor... that would exceed my expectations for sure.

    I'd have no problem swapping parts myself. For those who aren't comfortable doing so, it is best to have your local shop do the work (hopefully by someone who knows what they are doing and sets everything up properly).
    【ツ】 eDub 【ツ】

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    99
    The frame comes with the shock installed and SC doesn't build the shock, this came to them with the wrong stroke from Fox, you just got unlucky it went on your frame. My friend had the opposite happen in that his stock shock went in for service at the correct stroke and came back longer as they forgot the bumper and this exact same frame defect took place. He did not get a new frame from SC but my own warranty experience with them has been excellent.

    As for the cost to swap that is your shops decision, if they are charging you it is too bad, I am confident my shop would not charge for that but I also would just do the swap myself, good way to learn your bike if you feel comfortable doing the job.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    4,306
    LBS here generally covers warranty related labor if you bought the bike from them within the past year.
    Do the math.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Steezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    774
    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    I suspect this is a troll post. If the facts here can be corroborated, it would undermine the company with the best reputation for warranty and the strongest written warranty I have seen in this business.
    You sound like more of a zealot troll saying this. I had a particularly annoying experience with SC warranty. It definitely isn't perfect. The way the system worked when I used it was whoever screamed the loudest and annoyed Willy the most got his attention first and anyone that thought they would be civil and wait their turn was pushed to the back of the line.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    236
    Quote Originally Posted by bantin View Post
    I measured the stroke length of the shock and it's correct. The rear tire actually hits the frame when the stroke is at just 35mm! So the problem is definitely something with the linkage or the frame Ė*maybe the rear triangle is from a different frame size or something.
    I really want to know how this is possible. Links from a different model?

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    9
    Not sure why people think I'm a troll Ė just wanted to share my experience. Anyway, I talked to Willy and he said it's a known issue with the HT small frames. He didn't say what the issue was, but said that replacing the frame is the only way to fix it, so it's not the shock. Waiting to talk to my shop until after the holiday.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    9
    Responding to the question about tire size:

    They said they talked to Willy and he said he'd seen the issue before, and that replacing the frame was the only way to fix it. Everything is exactly stock: 29 inch wheels and whatever the stock tire width is (2.0 I think, but I don't have it in front of me).

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,494
    Quote Originally Posted by bantin View Post
    Not sure why people think I'm a troll Ė just wanted to share my experience. Anyway, I talked to Willy and he said it's a known issue with the HT small frames. He didn't say what the issue was, but said that replacing the frame is the only way to fix it, so it's not the shock. Waiting to talk to my shop until after the holiday.
    Interesting! If itís a known issue wont the replacement frame have the same problem?

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by nauc View Post
    SC builds the bikes at their factory in SC, ive seen it firsthand. theres this too...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUu7Ma3Dv8A
    it depends. i got my ht from a shop where they were building all the bikes up at the shop, not at SC.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    185
    am curious if sc said what went wrong? it seems impossible for the frame to be "wrong", and that only "having the wrong shock" is possible, which, is weird

  40. #40
    Demon Cleaner
    Reputation: Structure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    556

    Bad Experience with Santa Cruz Warranty

    Not a lawyer but isnít this also an issue of implied warranty? OP was sold a defective product. SC seems to have acknowledged that it was that way from the start. In CA, he can just return the whole bike and demand a full refund. Challenge it on the card if necessary (and paid for that way).

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...tionNum=1791.1.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Bicycling is politics by other means.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by bantin View Post
    Not sure why people think I'm a troll Ė just wanted to share my experience. Anyway, I talked to Willy and he said it's a known issue with the HT small frames. He didn't say what the issue was, but said that replacing the frame is the only way to fix it, so it's not the shock. Waiting to talk to my shop until after the holiday.
    Well at least you got to talk to Willie, I only got an email reply from Willie saying my claim was "processed", still haven't heard back(it'll be a year in September). Have my broken rear hub sitting in my garage. The best part is my friend - who owns the same bike - got his rim/hub...Willie allowed him to upgrade to a DTSwiss350 for an extra $150.

    I went out and bought mine. The bike was under a year old at the time

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ColinL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,475
    Quote Originally Posted by Doublebase View Post
    Well at least you got to talk to Willie, I only got an email reply from Willie saying my claim was "processed", still haven't heard back(it'll be a year in September). Have my broken rear hub sitting in my garage. The best part is my friend - who owns the same bike - got his rim/hub...Willie allowed him to upgrade to a DTSwiss350 for an extra $150.

    I went out and bought mine. The bike was under a year old at the time
    Wow, a year? And you haven't been following up for status?

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

  43. #43
    SS Pusher Man
    Reputation: mtnbikej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    7,289
    Quote Originally Posted by Doublebase View Post
    Well at least you got to talk to Willie, I only got an email reply from Willie saying my claim was "processed", still haven't heard back(it'll be a year in September). Have my broken rear hub sitting in my garage. The best part is my friend - who owns the same bike - got his rim/hub...Willie allowed him to upgrade to a DTSwiss350 for an extra $150.

    I went out and bought mine. The bike was under a year old at the time
    Well that is your/LBS problem for not following up. Like anything, things fall through the cracks sometimes....and those Novatec hubs were failing left and right.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
    Bucky the Cat

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    147
    Okay Iím not following the people who thinks itís fair for the OP to pay anything here. This is not an early failure or a wear issue. He was sold a defective product, and it should be replaced free of charge.
    If I were in this situation and either the LBS or SC tried to charge me a penny for a product that was obviously defective I would be asking for a full refund on the bike.
    Now hopefully it doesnít come to that. I know my local SC dealer has gone out of their way several times to help friends of mine out with their bikes, hopefully yours will as well. This is not a situation where anything less than complete service will be acceptable.

  45. #45
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,178
    Sharpen your mechanical skills, do the swap yourself and save $200.

    The experience gained should be worth $200.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,494
    I think what everyone needs to remember is that all the LBS are independently owned. They only sell the Santa Cruz bikes. Santa Cruz does not cover labor so the shop does not have to help with the swap over.....should they.......probably to help one of their customers.

    Should Santa Cruz pay the labor........no itís not included in their warranty.

    We really donít know what the actual problem is at this point? Bad frame design, wrong link, wrong shock?


    Take a look around the major manufacturers.........they do not cover labor either.



    Bad Experience with Santa Cruz Warranty-b5f5bf7d-186d-4770-ae46-df3ff1fb3bdd.jpg

    Bad Experience with Santa Cruz Warranty-2d0c79ed-7bf3-48a5-b960-2a7937ce483d.jpg

  47. #47
    SS Pusher Man
    Reputation: mtnbikej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    7,289
    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    I think what everyone needs to remember is that all the LBS are independently owned. They only sell the Santa Cruz bikes. Santa Cruz does not cover labor so the shop does not have to help with the swap over.....should they.......probably to help one of their customers.

    Should Santa Cruz pay the labor........no itís not included in their warranty.

    We really donít know what the actual problem is at this point? Bad frame design, wrong link, wrong shock?


    Take a look around the major manufacturers.........they do not cover labor either.



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	B5F5BF7D-186D-4770-AE46-DF3FF1FB3BDD.jpg 
Views:	110 
Size:	108.7 KB 
ID:	1206773

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2D0C79ED-7BF3-48A5-B960-2A7937CE483D.jpg 
Views:	103 
Size:	78.6 KB 
ID:	1206774
    Yup....if my bike fails a year or two after I buy it, I have no problem paying labor on an issue like this. However when my 2 week old bike starts having problems....then I expect the shop to take care of me.


    The shop I worked in....we would never have even considered charging a customer for a warranty issue like this.

    This is what separates the good shops from the bad.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
    Bucky the Cat

  48. #48
    Mr. Buck E. Fikes
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,359
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    Sharpen your mechanical skills, do the swap yourself and save $200.

    The experience gained should be worth $200.
    Agree.

    It's a bit of a bummer to have to do it in the first place but just do it yourself. I equate this to an experience I had with the other, bigger "S" brand. I had a really minor warranty issue on just a chainstay on a 2014 SJ Carbon Expert Evo. $60 part that I was willing to buy if they didn't cover it. It was on a 26" bike. They covered it. Problem was they had NO MORE 26" chainstays so they gave me a bike of my choice and I ended up asking for the then '17 Expert 29/650Fattie. I didn't expect anybody else to build my new bike, and shit, it cost me well over $2000 to actually make it a rideable platform since the only thing I could transfer were the handlebars, brakes, stem, and seatpost. I would have looked a bit silly asking for a complete build and someone to do it.

  49. #49
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,178
    There are good shops that place the buying customer at the forefront of their priorities, and there are those that fail this critical task miserably.

    This is just one reason why learning to perform all of your own maintenance and repair frees you from being held hostage to the whims of a less-than-desirable LBS.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    800
    My experience with SC warranty support is that you need to stay on top of them sometimes, they get a lot of requests for a small group and it is easy in cases like that for requests/messages/questions/etc to get lost in the fray.

    As for the $200 and rebuild cost, I'd be pissed at your shop. Any other manufacturer would do the same thing and it's up to you or your shop to do the swap.

    My suggestion would be to spend the $200 buying the tools needed to swap things over and do it yourself. You'll learn to maintain your bike and never have to go through a shop again. At minimum, you'll need a torque wrench, adapter for your threaded BB (make sure it matches up to the type of BB you have, there are different sizes/models), decent set of t-handle allen keys, allen adapters for your torque wrench, loctite, cable cutters, chain link, grease (just buy the park stuff for marine trailer bearing grease) and new cables.

    Thankfully, SC never got onto the internal brake routing trend and you can just swap the brakes over without bleeding. The easiest way to do it is to open up one of the links and slide the housing through, be sure to re-grease, loctite, and torque to spec.

    Your steerer tube, wheels, etc are all set up on the bike already, so the most difficult parts are already done, it should be a fairly easy changeover.

    I'd have a shop change the headset over, shouldn't be expensive or take very long, but good presses are expensive.

    It sucks you have to go through this, for sure, but I'd much rather do it myself than give a shop that did that to me any more money.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    My experience with SC warranty support is that you need to stay on top of them sometimes, they get a lot of requests for a small group and it is easy in cases like that for requests/messages/questions/etc to get lost in the fray.

    As for the $200 and rebuild cost, I'd be pissed at your shop. Any other manufacturer would do the same thing and it's up to you or your shop to do the swap.

    My suggestion would be to spend the $200 buying the tools needed to swap things over and do it yourself. You'll learn to maintain your bike and never have to go through a shop again. At minimum, you'll need a torque wrench, adapter for your threaded BB (make sure it matches up to the type of BB you have, there are different sizes/models), decent set of t-handle allen keys, allen adapters for your torque wrench, loctite, cable cutters, chain link, grease (just buy the park stuff for marine trailer bearing grease) and new cables.

    Thankfully, SC never got onto the internal brake routing trend and you can just swap the brakes over without bleeding. The easiest way to do it is to open up one of the links and slide the housing through, be sure to re-grease, loctite, and torque to spec.

    Your steerer tube, wheels, etc are all set up on the bike already, so the most difficult parts are already done, it should be a fairly easy changeover.

    I'd have a shop change the headset over, shouldn't be expensive or take very long, but good presses are expensive.

    It sucks you have to go through this, for sure, but I'd much rather do it myself than give a shop that did that to me any more money.
    Doesn't need a headset press on the Hightower.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,494
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    There are good shops that place the buying customer at the forefront of their priorities, and there are those that fail this critical task miserably.

    This is just one reason why learning to perform all of your own maintenance and repair frees you from being held hostage to the whims of a less-than-desirable LBS.
    I will not buy from the LBS that is 15 minutes from me that carries Santa Cruz for this reason. They will charge you to put air in your tire! They are criminals that rely on the local college to fleece every student that comes in there with their bike. I travel 2-3hrs to purchase from a different dealer that appreciates my business.

    I love to wrench on my bikes, and encourage my friends to bring their bikes to me so I can show them how to do it themselves.

    Unfortunately in the bicycling industry with each shop charging different labor rates and each shop requiring different amount of time to perform a certain task there is very little a manufacturer could do to include labor cost in their warranty.

    We as consumers of these high end bikes need to understand this before purchase. Itís not like buying a car or motorcycle that labor is included in manufactures defects in craftsmanship and material.

    Learn to wrench on your bikes! Itís satisfying and pleasurable!

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Stalkerfiveo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,244
    Isn't the whole point of buying from your LBS and having them assemble to catch things like this? SC did their part by replacing the frame. Now the LBS should own their mistake of not catching this issue upon initial assembly. Charging 200$ for a manufacturing mistake they overlooked during assembly is asinine.
    In serving the wicked, expect no reward, and be thankful if you escape injury for your pains.

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    147
    How is anyone okay with paying this shop? And yes learning to do it yourself is valuable but this should not be necessary! Both SC and your shop f**ked up by selling you a bike that didnít work, they absolutely should be making this right for you.
    Are you saying that if you bought a new bike and the fork didnít work, youíd be okay if they charged you labour to replace it? Or if the B.B. creaked out of the shop youíd pay labour to fix that? How is it different because itís the frame that needs replacement?

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Stalkerfiveo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,244
    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter-01 View Post
    How is anyone okay with paying this shop? And yes learning to do it yourself is valuable but this should not be necessary! Both SC and your shop f**ked up by selling you a bike that didnít work, they absolutely should be making this right for you.
    Are you saying that if you bought a new bike and the fork didnít work, youíd be okay if they charged you labour to replace it? Or if the B.B. creaked out of the shop youíd pay labour to fix that? How is it different because itís the frame that needs replacement?
    Exactly. Imagine buying a new car with a battery that kept going dead on the lot. You get it home and the next morning it is dead. How many people here acting like it's okay to pay the shop would also say they'd be okay with getting a new battery for free but being charged 50$ to install it if you want to keep the warranty intact???

    Bonkers
    In serving the wicked, expect no reward, and be thankful if you escape injury for your pains.

  56. #56
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
    Reputation: alexbn921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,288
    Damn people are harsh.
    There are 2 possible things that could have caused this.
    1. No spacer in the shock. This is fox's fault and time consuming for a manufacture to catch as they are never going to spend the time checking every component. You can check by letting all the air out and compressing the shock. Please check this as it's important.
    2. The frame was manufactured wrong. Something was out of spec and you deserve a new frame.
    Santa Cruz stepped up and replaced the frame even though the problem seems to be unknown.
    Most bike shops will step up and make this right on a new bike buy swapping everything for you. They are not required to, but they should on a new bike with a problem. They should deal with the manufacture to split the loose. Most bikes around here come with lifetime tune ups.

    Bike shops are business and need to make money. You should expect to pay for the services they provide. You need air and never buy from them, pay me sucker. You need a tune up, they have to pay the person fixing your bike. Support your LBS or don't but don't expect them to give handouts all the time.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Wow, a year? And you haven't been following up for status?

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
    Sure I followed up, emailed a few times and have a friend who works for Santa Cruz, had him check into it. Nothing. He said, Willie handles it and he's really swamped. I do get free t-shirts out of it sometimes though.

    I just kind of gave up, went out and spent $500 on a new rim and hub. Still have the garage humm and rm in my garage.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by bantin View Post
    I measured the stroke length of the shock and it's correct. The rear tire actually hits the frame when the stroke is at just 35mm!
    Did you measure the eye to eye distance on the shock? If a shock from a Tallboy (7.25 x 1.75) somehow got installed, there would probably be contact around 35mm into the stroke.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,494
    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Damn people are harsh.
    There are 2 possible things that could have caused this.
    1. No spacer in the shock. This is fox's fault and time consuming for a manufacture to catch as they are never going to spend the time checking every component. You can check by letting all the air out and compressing the shock. Please check this as it's important.
    2. The frame was manufactured wrong. Something was out of spec and you deserve a new frame.
    Santa Cruz stepped up and replaced the frame even though the problem seems to be unknown.
    Most bike shops will step up and make this right on a new bike buy swapping everything for you. They are not required to, but they should on a new bike with a problem. They should deal with the manufacture to split the loose. Most bikes around here come with lifetime tune ups.

    Bike shops are business and need to make money. You should expect to pay for the services they provide. You need air and never buy from them, pay me sucker. You need a tune up, they have to pay the person fixing your bike. Support your LBS or don't but don't expect them to give handouts all the time.

    Well said.

    I work for a company that manufactures tractors. We have multiple assembly lines that we hope and assume are set up with the proper parts for each build we are running. There are times when a certain part is brought to that line that aren't to our specs from one of our suppliers. In this case maybe a box of Fox shocks that were supposed to be 51mm stroke were not, and were 57mm. Fox may have mislabled the box, forgot to install the spacer, etc, who knows why its wrong. The workers on the line see a box labeled 51mm stroke and build away. They cant spend the time needed to deflate every shock and check for clearance issues it would take too long.

    It was stated that this was a known issue so Santa Cruz is doing the right thing and replacing the frame. They may not know at this point how many shocks were wrong.

    It still does not change the fact that the warranty does not include labor charges.

    Santa Cruz is fulfilling its obligation and making this right by warranting the frame........for whatever reason it happened.

    The ball is in the court of the LBS. In a day and age that social media is so powerful and can really affect a business' reputation I would think they would take care of their customer......but the fact remains they don't have to and can charge him.

    When they agreed to become a "Authorized Santa Cruz Dealer" they read the contract that stated we do not reimburse for labor charges occurred when replacing warrantied items.

    The bike shop needs to tread very lightly here.

    They may be a small shop that every man hour of labor needs to be accounted for?

    $200 seems a little unreasonable though.

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    729
    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    Well said.

    I work for a company that manufactures tractors. We have multiple assembly lines that we hope and assume are set up with the proper parts for each build we are running. There are times when a certain part is brought to that line that aren't to our specs from one of our suppliers. In this case maybe a box of Fox shocks that were supposed to be 51mm stroke were not, and were 57mm. Fox may have mislabled the box, forgot to install the spacer, etc, who knows why its wrong. The workers on the line see a box labeled 51mm stroke and build away. They cant spend the time needed to deflate every shock and check for clearance issues it would take too long.

    It was stated that this was a known issue so Santa Cruz is doing the right thing and replacing the frame. They may not know at this point how many shocks were wrong.

    It still does not change the fact that the warranty does not include labor charges.

    Santa Cruz is fulfilling its obligation and making this right by warranting the frame........for whatever reason it happened.

    The ball is in the court of the LBS. In a day and age that social media is so powerful and can really affect a business' reputation I would think they would take care of their customer......but the fact remains they don't have to and can charge him.

    When they agreed to become a "Authorized Santa Cruz Dealer" they read the contract that stated we do not reimburse for labor charges occurred when replacing warrantied items.

    The bike shop needs to tread very lightly here.

    They may be a small shop that every man hour of labor needs to be accounted for?

    $200 seems a little unreasonable though.
    You canít tell me in your scenario that you customer would be ok with paying for your companies mistake. Sorry not buying it. Your telling me someone buys a two week old tractor from your company and the steering wheel doesnít have full turning capability one direction because the rack was built wrong (something that could have easily been found during a QC check counting number of turns right and turns left) and now itís usless in the field and they canít use it (cutting into framing time = loss of profits), and now you want them to pay for the failure of a QC check? Your company would not ever be selling that person another tractor and you can bet your butt everyone farmer around him would hear about it.

    Yes SC statement is they do not cover labor but again there is a very big difference here as this is a very new bike with a bike that passed their assembly with a rubbing rear tire on bottom out and still managed to make it to the consumers hands. This is not really a manufacturer defect that shows signs of failure years down the road this should have been apparent day one. Regardless if it was foxís fault shipping them mislabeled shocks then that is for SC to take up with fox just as it would be your companies issue to take up with the rack supplier, it should not be the consumers issue in this case and Iím pretty sure SC would agree as they seem to always step up above everyone else.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,494
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill View Post
    You canít tell me in your scenario that you customer would be ok with paying for your companies mistake. Sorry not buying it. Your telling me someone buys a two week old tractor from your company and the steering wheel doesnít have full turning capability one direction because the rack was built wrong (something that could have easily been found during a QC check counting number of turns right and turns left) and now itís usless in the field and they canít use it (cutting into framing time = loss of profits), and now you want them to pay for the failure of a QC check? Your company would not ever be selling that person another tractor and you can bet your butt everyone farmer around him would hear about it.

    Yes SC statement is they do not cover labor but again there is a very big difference here as this is a very new bike with a bike that passed their assembly with a rubbing rear tire on bottom out and still managed to make it to the consumers hands. This is not really a manufacturer defect that shows signs of failure years down the road this should have been apparent day one. Regardless if it was foxís fault shipping them mislabeled shocks then that is for SC to take up with fox just as it would be your companies issue to take up with the rack supplier, it should not be the consumers issue in this case and Iím pretty sure SC would agree as they seem to always step up above everyone else.
    Wow, I was nearly coming up with a scenario about how possibly the wrong shock got on the bike and why they didnít catch it?

    Way to blow that explanation out of proportion and say we wouldnít help our customers!

    Of course we have quality checks an would make it right when we realized it, thatís my job as a field rep. We would fix our mistake on our equipment.

    Again I refer back that Santa Cruz only makes the frame, not the equipment on it.

    Itís still in the LBS court whether they want to help their customer,

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,494
    For what itís worth I have personally used the Santa Cruz Warranty Dept multiple times. I have had two frames replaced, and a had a minor issue with collets and axle fittings. Santa Cruz has taken care of their issues.

    I chose not to use my LBS with my warranty issues however, it just adds to the down time.

    I fully understand the inconvenience of having to send a brand new frame to Santa Cruz for replacement and the fact that for most of us itís our only bike which means we wonít be able to ride for weeks.

    The biking industry is a very unique one that requires unique consideration from the consumer......I know a lot of people get it but some donít.

    They see the purchase of a bike as a complete unit, not frame and components. Fork goes bad Fork manufacturer responsible not Santa Cruz. Drivetrain goes bad itís SRAM etc.

    Assuming that your LBS is going to give you free labor all the time no matter what the scenario is not fair either. Yes they sold it, yes its brand new, yes they should make it right but itís not their mistake, itís Santa Cruzís. It still costs the shop man hours to tear down the old bike, ship it out to Santa Cruz, then reassemble when they get the new frame. Thatís a lot of work on a bike they may only get 20-30% margin on. Itís no wonder LBS are slowly dying out and online companies like YT and Canyon are thriving.

    There are good bike shops out there are there are some less than desirable ones.

    Santa Cruz is honoring its warranty, itís still up to the LBS to take care of its customer.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LargeMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    474
    I currently work in a shop and have done so for over 20 years. IF this happened in my shop, I would be embarrassed and not even think of charging the customer. Probably give him some free upgrades on top of it.

    If I was a consumer and a LBS wanted $200 for this mistake, I would leave the bike then file a chargeback on my credit card and go buy a bike somewhere else.

    OP - You are nuts for even considering paying $200, return the bike, period.

  64. #64
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,834
    The original post is worded oddly in a critical way. Is it the same shop you bought the bike from that wants to charge the $200 assembly fee? Or is it a different shop?

    If the former, itís ridiculous and Iíd ask for a full refund. If the latter, then the fee would be normal though a bit high.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    729
    No where did I say your company wouldn't, I knew it would as it would be insane to charge a customer for something that passed your own QC and is wrong. Then you implied that since SC doesn't make all the parts it's not their fault and they don't cover labor. News flash almost every company that exist doesn't make all their own parts, that's why I said if fox indeed shipped them the wrong shock then that is a negotiation for SC and fox to make, not to charge the customer for the issue.

    What I keep going back to is this is not a typical manufacturer defect, especially if it truly is something like the wrong shock installed, it would fall under negligence.

    It's as if you bought a car with a no labor coverage for manufacturer defect warranty and you bought the sport package with the big brake kit and then went to a track day and just said you know my brake don't seem as good as I thought that should be so you take it in. The dealer and they say oh these are the stock brakes. The manufacturer comes back and says here we will make it right and give you the big brakes how would you like to pay for the install, cash or credit? Does that sound like a manufacturer defect to you?

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,494
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill View Post

    What I keep going back to is this is not a typical manufacturer defect, especially if it truly is something like the wrong shock installed, it would fall under negligence.
    No one knows at this point what the actual issue is. The OP has not been clear on what exactly happened. Maybe all size small Santa Cruz Hightower frames will rub at full compression? Maybe that is the known issue?

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jazzanova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    No one knows at this point what the actual issue is. The OP has not been clear on what exactly happened. Maybe all size small Santa Cruz Hightower frames will rub at full compression? Maybe that is the known issue?
    I highly doubt that. That would be a great design error. This is very likely a shock issue. Unless there was a bigger size tire used than recommended... which I don't think it was.
    I agree, someone should pay for the labor here and it should not be the customer.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    959
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    LBS here generally covers warranty related labor if you bought the bike from them within the past year.
    Yeap, same here at The Path Bike Shop. I agree with what someone else said, if your shop does not have a policy to pick it up I would ask them to do so, especially if you paid full or close to retail. If it was a close-out or some special deal maybe less reasonable for them to pick it up. Just as another data point, SC was lightning fast with my claim, got a new front triangle and The Path swapped the parts and I was back riding in less than 5 days.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I highly doubt that. That would be a great design error. This is very likely a shock issue. Unless there was a bigger size tire used than recommended... which I don't think it was.
    I agree, someone should pay for the labor here and it should not be the customer.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    If the only problem was the shock, why would SC not just send a new replacement shock? Make a they had an issue with one of the linkages? Though that could just be replaced too, you wouldnít need to wait so long for a new frame. Hopefully we hear back from the OP at some point, this thread hasnít gotten pretty interesting.

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,806
    Sounds like the worst shop on the planet. SC was backorderrd for a while due to color changes but my shop would have swapped you shocks on the spot or offered another frame off the floor to make it right. They definitely wouldnít have charged labor either. Where are you located?
    Instagram

    Denver, CO

    Mojo Wheels | DirtLabs Suspension | Honey Stinger

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,806
    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    For what itís worth I have personally used the Santa Cruz Warranty Dept multiple times. I have had two frames replaced, and a had a minor issue with collets and axle fittings. Santa Cruz has taken care of their issues.

    I chose not to use my LBS with my warranty issues however, it just adds to the down time.

    I fully understand the inconvenience of having to send a brand new frame to Santa Cruz for replacement and the fact that for most of us itís our only bike which means we wonít be able to ride for weeks.

    The biking industry is a very unique one that requires unique consideration from the consumer......I know a lot of people get it but some donít.

    They see the purchase of a bike as a complete unit, not frame and components. Fork goes bad Fork manufacturer responsible not Santa Cruz. Drivetrain goes bad itís SRAM etc.

    Assuming that your LBS is going to give you free labor all the time no matter what the scenario is not fair either. Yes they sold it, yes its brand new, yes they should make it right but itís not their mistake, itís Santa Cruzís. It still costs the shop man hours to tear down the old bike, ship it out to Santa Cruz, then reassemble when they get the new frame. Thatís a lot of work on a bike they may only get 20-30% margin on. Itís no wonder LBS are slowly dying out and online companies like YT and Canyon are thriving.

    There are good bike shops out there are there are some less than desirable ones.

    Santa Cruz is honoring its warranty, itís still up to the LBS to take care of its customer.

    Not always true, with the guide brake fiasco last year sram was compensating shops for the bleed and lots of shops were double billing and still charging the customer even though it was a warranty issue being covered by SRAM.
    Instagram

    Denver, CO

    Mojo Wheels | DirtLabs Suspension | Honey Stinger

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    5
    im also having this problem with my small hightower LT
    Bad Experience with Santa Cruz Warranty-p5pb15994222.jpg

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    246
    Oh dang! Uh i need to check my sons bike we just built. He hammered it pretty well last week. Im gonna have him take a look. Thats weird.

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LargeMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Not always true, with the guide brake fiasco last year sram was compensating shops for the bleed and lots of shops were double billing and still charging the customer even though it was a warranty issue being covered by SRAM.
    If you mean sending a $5 chain, then yes, the shop was compensated.

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Steezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    774
    I agree it is very helpful to learn how to wrench on bikes, but you guys have to understand a lot of people absolutely hate dealing with maintenance and would rather dedicate time to something else or simply don't have a place to work on them.

    I would never expect or tell anyone they need to learn how to do anything outside of greasing chains, and keeping tires inflated.

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Steezus View Post
    I agree it is very helpful to learn how to wrench on bikes, but you guys have to understand a lot of people absolutely hate dealing with maintenance and would rather dedicate time to something else or simply don't have a place to work on them.

    I would never expect or tell anyone they need to learn how to do anything outside of greasing chains, and keeping tires inflated.
    I don't know. I've saved many a ride for friends because I knew how to turn a barrel adjuster among other basic things.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Steezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    774
    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I don't know. I've saved many a ride for friends because I knew how to turn a barrel adjuster among other basic things.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    That's why i learned to wrench, but i totally understand why a lot of people don't want to and i don't fault them. Most anyone can do simple stuff once they really get into riding. I'd say it's a fair bit more investment of time and money on tools to swap all your components to a new frame.

    But, biking is weird. Not a lot of other hobbies where your toy cost upwards of $8k and people claim the poor bike company is just scraping along and you need to learn to wrench to do their job for them.

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    539
    With Cannondale, my local shop did three part replacements at no cost to me. One recall, two warranty, and I didn't buy the bike from them. Raleigh paid parts and labor for the same shop to do a warranty repair on another bike. They and Diamondback expressly cover labor (for between a month and year), though my Raleigh repair was past this expiration and they didn't bat an eyelid.

    Were this my bike, I'd be on the phone with Santa Cruz until they picked up the tab. It's a premium brand. This was caused by a manufacturing defect. How they work it out with the shop is their business, but the OP shouldn't be paying a dime.

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    7,640
    Quote Originally Posted by Steezus View Post
    I agree it is very helpful to learn how to wrench on bikes, but you guys have to understand a lot of people absolutely hate dealing with maintenance and would rather dedicate time to something else or simply don't have a place to work on them.

    I would never expect or tell anyone they need to learn how to do anything outside of greasing chains, and keeping tires inflated.
    If your riding mile outs into the wilderness, its self preservation to learn some basics.
    Tallboy 3.1
    OG Ripley v2

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    800
    Quote Originally Posted by Steezus View Post
    I agree it is very helpful to learn how to wrench on bikes, but you guys have to understand a lot of people absolutely hate dealing with maintenance and would rather dedicate time to something else or simply don't have a place to work on them.

    I would never expect or tell anyone they need to learn how to do anything outside of greasing chains, and keeping tires inflated.
    It's just a suggestion. I'd agree it's not for everyone and that's fine, but encouraging someone to at least consider the option isn't unreasonable.

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Steezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    774
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    If your riding mile outs into the wilderness, its self preservation to learn some basics.
    Unless you are doing a multi-day epic far away from civilization, 99% of the riding any of us do are easy hikes back or a quick jog. I prefer to ride, but this isn't a discussion about performing basic service. Transferring all your parts from one frame to another frame is not basic trail side maintenance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    It's just a suggestion. I'd agree it's not for everyone and that's fine, but encouraging someone to at least consider the option isn't unreasonable.
    The way this thread is going, it definitely seems unreasonable. I hear this same stuff when I pay to have a shop replace my vehicle brake pads. I hate working on cars and I am super happy that I can pay a shop to do this service. Bikes are no different. It just seems weird so many try and cram it down someones throat. Hell, I wish I was wealthy enough to never have to worry about it. Lot's of people just don't like performing mechanical tasks. Basically I am trying to tell some of you this, we are all born with different aptitudes and desires.

  82. #82
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    7,178
    Sounds like some are getting defensive because they are perhaps mechanically challenged?
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6,861
    If the shop is the same one you bought the bike from, they owe you a build IMHO.
    Or just a whole new bike. It's completely unacceptable that you paid that much money for a product that was unusable from the get-go. Shop should've took the whole thing back, given you a new one right off the bat, and dealt with the warranty issue themselves.
    Sinister Bikes
    Wraith Bicycles
    Sunday River Mtn Bike Park
    NEMBA
    Wachusett Brewing Co.

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Steezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    774
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    Sounds like some are getting defensive because they are perhaps mechanically challenged?
    I guess it is kind of a strange concept for some to defend the idea that a lot of people don't care to learn or need to learn how to wrench on a bike even though you know how to wrench on a bike.

    As I already said before, if you read more carefully, I know how to wrench on my bike. The only thing I do not do is build wheels and work on my dropper. I don't feel like buying and storing a vice that will only get used once every 3 years for the dropper and never needed to build my own wheels. That being said, I do not enjoy any aspect of working on my bike in the slightest.

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    If the shop is the same one you bought the bike from, they owe you a build IMHO.
    Or just a whole new bike. It's completely unacceptable that you paid that much money for a product that was unusable from the get-go. Shop should've took the whole thing back, given you a new one right off the bat, and dealt with the warranty issue themselves.
    /endthread

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    9
    Just wanted to give an update:

    1) The shop I bought it from isn't willing to do the service because they're no longer a licensed Santa Cruz dealer. So I guess that's that. I won't be buying from them again.

    2) Willie hooked it up big time. The new frame arrived today and they upgraded me to a CC from a C because I had to wait so long. Now THAT's how you treat a customer. I'll definitely be buying another Santa Cruz, but obviously from a different shop.

    3) Gonna do the swap myself since it'll be cheaper and the only tools I don't have are a BB tool and a torque wrench. Excited to get back on the trails Ė if anyone has suggestions for rides in the Seattle area that would be great.

    Looks like Santa Cruz took care of me but my LBS wasn't willing to. If I could, I'd change the name of this thread so it wouldn't reflect badly on the folks at SC. It took a while, but they made it right.

  87. #87
    SS Pusher Man
    Reputation: mtnbikej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    7,289
    Quote Originally Posted by bantin View Post
    Just wanted to give an update:

    1) The shop I bought it from isn't willing to do the service because they're no longer a licensed Santa Cruz dealer. So I guess that's that. I won't be buying from them again.

    2) Willie hooked it up big time. The new frame arrived today and they upgraded me to a CC from a C because I had to wait so long. Now THAT's how you treat a customer. I'll definitely be buying another Santa Cruz, but obviously from a different shop.

    3) Gonna do the swap myself since it'll be cheaper and the only tools I don't have are a BB tool and a torque wrench. Excited to get back on the trails Ė if anyone has suggestions for rides in the Seattle area that would be great.

    Looks like Santa Cruz took care of me but my LBS wasn't willing to. If I could, I'd change the name of this thread so it wouldn't reflect badly on the folks at SC. It took a while, but they made it right.


    Good to hear........from the start this was a LBS issue.....and now that you revealed that the shop you bought it from is no longer selling SC....they aren't willing to help. That sounds like a crap shop. Feel free to name the shop so we all know where to avoid.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
    Bucky the Cat

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6,861
    I don't see what being a dealer currently has to do with it.
    They sold the bike, they should be backing it up. Not like they all of a sudden are unable to put parts on a frame because it has a Santa Cruz sticker on it.

    Lame excuse, lame shop.
    Sinister Bikes
    Wraith Bicycles
    Sunday River Mtn Bike Park
    NEMBA
    Wachusett Brewing Co.

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    147
    Glad to hear SC is taking good care of you. But seriously, any shop that takes your money for a bike than wonít fix it for you because theyíre no longer a dealer is worth staying away from. As an aside, I bought a NOS Kona a few years back from a shop who no longer dealt with Kona. They took care of the few warranty issues without complaining, itís too bad your shop couldnít step up and make things right for you.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nauc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,986
    wait, but WHY is tire hitting frame?

    ever clear that up?

    will new CC frame have same problem?

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    459
    The bike industry has some strange interpretations of product sales and customer support. In my state, it doesn't matter who made something, you are covered for a refund for 90 days from the original seller. There are exceptions, but they are the obvious ones like you knowingly bought a product "as is".

    I had a messy run in with a major orange box store over this same type of finger pointing. If you buy a product that is not fit for the purpose you bought it for or is defective, and you inform the seller within 90 days, you can get a refund. No, it doesn't matter what the warranty says. No, the seller can't just take over 90 days to resolve the issue. No, the seller can't just wash their hands of the mess by pointing at the manufacture. No it doesn't matter what state the business is "based" in, if they sold you the product in my state.

    If the laws of the state where the purchase was made are like my state and the seller was informed of the issue before 90 days from purchase the seller is entitled to a refund. The waiting for frames, paying $200, and all that stuff is on you if you agree. I would have asked for a full refund about 11 seconds after I discovered it was a product defect that was causing the rolling wheel to potentially stop spinning when the suspension was at a specific place in the travel. Scary and unacceptable.

    So was it more than 90 days before you informed the seller your product was defective? If not, get out of this mess and just start over. Months for a frame? A $200 parts transfer on a bike a shop made a profit on? How about a full refund and hand them the defective thing and let them deal with it.

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    459
    Quote Originally Posted by elk100 View Post
    im also having this problem with my small hightower LT
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	p5pb15994222.jpg 
Views:	138 
Size:	367.5 KB 
ID:	1207203
    This is looking more and more like the beginnings of a safety recall. Assuming these bikes are really unmodified and maintained these examples are one gloppy mud ride from locking up a rear wheel. Buying a new tire must also be an experience. What if the new tire mounts up a few mm taller than the original?

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by nauc View Post
    wait, but WHY is tire hitting frame?

    ever clear that up?
    1+ frame, links or shock fail?

  94. #94
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,383
    Quote Originally Posted by bantin View Post
    Just wanted to give an update:

    1) The shop I bought it from isn't willing to do the service because they're no longer a licensed Santa Cruz dealer. So I guess that's that. I won't be buying from them again.

    2) Willie hooked it up big time. The new frame arrived today and they upgraded me to a CC from a C because I had to wait so long. Now THAT's how you treat a customer. I'll definitely be buying another Santa Cruz, but obviously from a different shop.

    3) Gonna do the swap myself since it'll be cheaper and the only tools I don't have are a BB tool and a torque wrench. Excited to get back on the trails Ė if anyone has suggestions for rides in the Seattle area that would be great.

    Looks like Santa Cruz took care of me but my LBS wasn't willing to. If I could, I'd change the name of this thread so it wouldn't reflect badly on the folks at SC. It took a while, but they made it right.
    You can edit your first post with an update so that people that haven't read the thread get the final outcome without reading through the whole thread. Go to your post and click the "Edit Post". And avoid that shop.

    I'm proud to own a Santa Cruz!
    There are two types of people in this world:
    1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

  95. #95
    Demon Cleaner
    Reputation: Structure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    556
    Quote Originally Posted by adaycj View Post
    The bike industry has some strange interpretations of product sales and customer support. In my state, it doesn't matter who made something, you are covered for a refund for 90 days from the original seller. There are exceptions, but they are the obvious ones like you knowingly bought a product "asĒ
    Yes, this. An ďimplied warrantyĒ exists. In CA, this would be covered by that rather than the ďexpressed warrantyĒ of SC. I bet Washington state also has this. Itís why someone canít sell you faulty goods or goods with a part(s) removes and say ďsorry suckerĒ afterwards.

    I posted this above but emphasizing it again so people know they have some rights in a case like this. Especially if they purchased using a credit card and thus have an easier time getting the cash back.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Bicycling is politics by other means.

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    18
    Congrats on your new frame!

    Before they sent you a new frame, did they tell you it's shipped or give you a tracking number? Or did it just show up at your place?

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by woodsroamer View Post
    Congrats on your new frame!

    Before they sent you a new frame, did they tell you it's shipped or give you a tracking number? Or did it just show up at your place?
    Nope, no tracking number, and they didn't tell me it shipped. Just...poof. On my doorstep.

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    18
    That's good to know. I hope I receive mine soon.

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    277
    as a few here told you.... the thread name should be change.

  100. #100
    Professional MTBR Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by Structure View Post
    Yes, this. An ďimplied warrantyĒ exists. In CA, this would be covered by that rather than the ďexpressed warrantyĒ of SC. I bet Washington state also has this. Itís why someone canít sell you faulty goods or goods with a part(s) removes and say ďsorry suckerĒ afterwards.

    I posted this above but emphasizing it again so people know they have some rights in a case like this. Especially if they purchased using a credit card and thus have an easier time getting the cash back.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yup, this. Damned good reason to sign up for an Amex card and use it for larger purchases.

    OP could take his LBS and SC to small claims court with a high chance of prevailing. Not worth it, but just saying he could.

    The vast majority of people, including the majority of people who replied in this thread, have no clue when it comes to tort law.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-06-2013, 11:47 AM
  2. Santa Cruz SL 29 vs Santa Cruz SL 27.5 ?
    By phoenixbikes in forum 27.5
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-31-2012, 01:06 AM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-21-2012, 09:04 AM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-16-2012, 02:04 PM
  5. Santa Cruz Blur Classic vs Santa Cruz Blur XC
    By KingJester68 in forum Santa Cruz
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-05-2011, 08:45 AM

Members who have read this thread: 703

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.