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  1. #1
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    Anyone here come from Pivot ?

    For years I had a Pivot Mach 5 that I loved. Replaced it with the Mach 4C but wasnt happy with the M4C so I sold it and am thinking about grabbing a 2016 leftover 5010C with the S build. I know it'll be heavier but I'm hoping it will inspire a little more confidence with the slacker head angle, longer wheelbase (small size) and more travel. I'm a little concerned with going from DW to VPP but if it's just as active and maybe slightly plusher that would be a good thing. Would love some feedback from Santa Cruz riders who ahve ridden Pivots. thanks !

  2. #2
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    I went from a Mach 6 to a Nomad. DW feels more firm on the pedals especially out of the saddle, but Strava showed no difference in times across every variety of climbing terrain. SC's implementation of VPP definitely feels more plush on the descents as well. You might want to check out the Bronson as well. Not sure what your terrain is, but it doesn't really give up anything on the climbs but gains a lot on the descents. Your profile pic made me think of that.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I went from a Mach 6 to a Nomad. DW feels more firm on the pedals especially out of the saddle, but Strava showed no difference in times across every variety of climbing terrain. SC's implementation of VPP definitely feels more plush on the descents as well. You might want to check out the Bronson as well. Not sure what your terrain is, but it doesn't really give up anything on the climbs but gains a lot on the descents. Your profile pic made me think of that.
    yes I will demo both tonight I think. 5010 got a slacker HTA from previous, so hopefully its more on par with the 2015 Bronson. I'm not sure I need that much travel but we'll see.

  4. #4
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    For what its worth here is my take. To me SC just always feels plusher and more focused at aggressive riding while the Pivot feels better at straight up xc and trail riding. I currently have a Blur LT2 and Mach 5.7 and for rough aggressive days I always prefer my Blur, but if it is easy long xc/trail stuff then I usually opt for the Mach 5.7. I also had a Firebird and a Yeti 7 at the same time and the difference between the 2 was similar except that Yeti was also better at tech climbing so I sold the bird and kept the 7 and don't regret that decision. I also rode a Nomad a number of times when I had the Firebird and once again IMO the Nomad killed the Firebird on downhill and rough stuff but Firefird was a better peddled. To me, each is just a bit different and really shine at different types of riding. Just my thoughts

  5. #5
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    which yeti did you have ? wondering if I should consider the sb5 enduro. theres one left over at a shop near me.

  6. #6
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    This is not an apples to apple comparison, but riders are comparing a Nomad to an M6. I'd argue those are 2 different classes of bike, despite what the marketing departments are saying. I'd say the M6 is more AM/trail oriented.

    Anyway I had an SC TBLTc. Only 135mm out back. Always felt choppy and harsh on the fast rough downs, but that could have been the shock. My M6 with 20 more mm of travel feels very different. Much nicer on the downs. Very much a DH feel to it, especially with the new X2 rear shock.

    I've had about 5 different SC bikes through the years and none ever felt "plush" but all were good bikes.

    But, I would likely pick up a current model Nomad if I could get one at a good price. I hear great things about that bike.

  7. #7
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    Anyone here come from Pivot ?

    Yes - currently own Pivot 2017 Firebird. Recently sold 429 Trail for Hightower. Have owned M6, 429 Carbon.

    There is a VERY slight anti squat advantage with DW Link but at the cost of small bump compliance. I wouldn't let the suspension discourage you either way.

  8. #8
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    I have owned a couple of SC bikes, a Blur TRC and a Nomad. I currently own a 429Trail, and have ridden most of the bikes in the Pivot line. To me, the DW Pivots do pedal a little nicer, with a slightly firmer platform, probably due to the anti squat characteristics. The more noticeable difference to me though, is how they feel around the sag point and through the mid stroke. The VPP bikes I've ridden tend to feel more vague around the sag point, and wallow a little through the mid-stroke. The DW's tend to feel a little more supportive and lively through the mid stroke, without being harsh. Both had good performance through the ramp up at the bottom of the travel. Smooth, no harsh bottom, and a sense of having more travel on tap than specs show. I prefer the DW in terms of all around feel and performance. The Yeti Switch Infinity bikes are amazing in terms of balance between pedaling performance, active suspension characteristics, and plush feel as well.


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  9. #9
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    Thanks for the replies, I'd love to ride the yeti back to back with the 5010 but neither shop carries both. Similar pricing and specs on the. Reach is slightly longer on 5010 but not by much. 130mm is pretty much perfect for me. 5010 comes with pike and yeti with fox 34.

  10. #10
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    A big diff between earlier SC and current SC bikes is that the lower link is more horizontal in the latter leading to less anti-bob, less pedal feedback and less wallow in the mid stroke.
    Do the math.

  11. #11
    jddist
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishercat View Post
    which yeti did you have ? wondering if I should consider the sb5 enduro. theres one left over at a shop near me.
    I have the old ASR 7 simple 7in single pivot that they only produced for a few years. Basically a 575 on steroids. IMO it is a freak of nature. It does so many things so well that it is hard to beat. I have gone through a lot of bike looking for it's long term replacement but I keep coming back to it. Just wish it didn't have that single pivot square edge limitation.

  12. #12
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    I own and ride a 429Trail and also a SC Hightower. Agree with most of the comments. The Pivot has a bit more pedaling support or anti-squat and feels just a little snappier on acceleration . The Hightower is more stable and seems to get better traction on loose, rocky climbs. I ride the Hightower most of the time.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruitafrank View Post
    I own and ride a 429Trail and also a SC Hightower. Agree with most of the comments. The Pivot has a bit more pedaling support or anti-squat and feels just a little snappier on acceleration . The Hightower is more stable and seems to get better traction on loose, rocky climbs. I ride the Hightower most of the time.
    I assume you're riding the Hightower in 29er form? What tires/pressures on each?


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  14. #14
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    Yes, I tried the 27.5 plus but liked the stock 29's better. The HT I run Minion 2.35 front at 20PSI on carbon rim, and the back run 2.35 Ikon at 21PSI on same rim. Rims are std. Enve's. The Pivot I run 2.3 Butcher front on std. carbon rim at 20 PSI, and back run Ardent Race 2.2 on same carbon rim at 21PSI. I find I like the control you get on the HT better and the cockpit fits me better. The trail is quick but I seem to sit taller on it which makes the handling twitchier.

  15. #15
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    I would agree on geo being a little better in the HT. That's really my only gripe on the 429T, particularly the reach. I'd like a touch steeper STA as well. I think those things will change in the next gen.


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  16. #16
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    I love both Pivot and SC. I've recently owned a Switchblade and a 429Tr. And I own a Nomad. In Phoenix, the Nomad is a no-brainer for me. Which isn't really a knock on Pivot; the 429Tr in particular is an awesome rig even if the geo/sizing is a little wonky.

    The general consensus is that Pivot are a bit snappier in the pedaling department and SC tends to be a touch more plush. I guess I agree with that overall, although most modern SC bikes are still pretty snappy. Hard to go wrong, really.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  17. #17
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    cool. thanks everyone. now I'm stuck on the size issue. small vs medium 5010 at 5'6". I have ridden both, small feels more playful, medium is a little stretched out but I could run a tiny stem on it. I liked SC's previous sizing, tho everyone thought the bikes were too short, I could always ride a medium with a short stem and it was perfect. Now the medium feels a little long with the short stem. do I trust Santa Cruz's sizing on this or size down for a more playful feel... I do like the shorter cranks on the small for clearance.

  18. #18
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    I followed SC sizing when I bought my Bronson v2, as I was between sizes too, at the end I went with the longer bigger bike and so happy I did. It felt long for like a day, after that it feels normal, and going downhill I really appreciate that extra length.

  19. #19
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    Be careful with the seat tube height if you size up. That was one of the main reasons why I chose HT in L instead of XL: in XL the dropper post would have been too high in fully lowered position which would have been quite pointless for its purpose.
    Roots, bloody roots

  20. #20
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    I have long legs so I dont think that'll be the problem. I'm more concerned about the reach and keeping the front wheel down on climbs. I am now leaning towards the medium tho..
    could use a higher BB...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishercat View Post
    cool. thanks everyone. now I'm stuck on the size issue. small vs medium 5010 at 5'6". I have ridden both, small feels more playful, medium is a little stretched out but I could run a tiny stem on it. I liked SC's previous sizing, tho everyone thought the bikes were too short, I could always ride a medium with a short stem and it was perfect. Now the medium feels a little long with the short stem. do I trust Santa Cruz's sizing on this or size down for a more playful feel... I do like the shorter cranks on the small for clearance.
    I'm 5'7" with a 29" inseam,. Went with a medium 5010 and it was the correct choice according to the SC fit chart. Couldn't be happier

  22. #22
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    This is a timely post given the recent release of Pivot's Mach 5.5

    I've been thinking lately about replacing the Hightower with 2 bikes. A more XC 29er and larger 150mm ish bike.

    Wonder how this new Mach 5.5 will stack up to the current Bronson, Yeti SB5 or even the new Rocky Mountain Altitude... The numbers on the new Altitude look really nice!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    This is a timely post given the recent release of Pivot's Mach 5.5

    I've been thinking lately about replacing the Hightower with 2 bikes. A more XC 29er and larger 150mm ish bike.

    Wonder how this new Mach 5.5 will stack up to the current Bronson, Yeti SB5 or even the new Rocky Mountain Altitude... The numbers on the new Altitude look really nice!
    The M5.5 looks like a ripper. Good geo, even if the STA isn't quite as steep as I might have liked. Stiff, low weight, rowdy, playful and should pedal well.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    This is a timely post given the recent release of Pivot's Mach 5.5

    I've been thinking lately about replacing the Hightower with 2 bikes. A more XC 29er and larger 150mm ish bike.

    Wonder how this new Mach 5.5 will stack up to the current Bronson, Yeti SB5 or even the new Rocky Mountain Altitude... The numbers on the new Altitude look really nice!
    Have you tried your HT with a longer fork and better rear shock? You might be surprised at how good it is in this configuration.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Have you tried your HT with a longer fork and better rear shock? You might be surprised at how good it is in this configuration.
    I just picked up my Hightower frame and will build it as a 29er.
    If I leave the rear at 135mm have you tried that with 150mm vs 160mm fork and what was your thoughts?
    I'm debating a 150 vs 160 fork and having a hard time deciding.

    Any input from those that have tried a 150 and 160 fork with 135 rear travel in 29er mode?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuenstock View Post
    I just picked up my Hightower frame and will build it as a 29er.
    If I leave the rear at 135mm have you tried that with 150mm vs 160mm fork and what was your thoughts?
    I'm debating a 150 vs 160 fork and having a hard time deciding.

    Any input from those that have tried a 150 and 160 fork with 135 rear travel in 29er mode?
    I rode it with 160 up front. Same Geo as my bike right now and it us awesome. Unfortunately I never mounted up a 150 fork.

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I rode it with 160 up front. Same Geo as my bike right now and it us awesome. Unfortunately I never mounted up a 150 fork.

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    So you're not on the Hightower anymore SP? Can you share what you are riding?
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    So you're not on the Hightower anymore SP? Can you share what you are riding?
    I am still on the Hightower. Was just saying that the 135 vs 150 does not change the Geo with my setup because I run in the low position with the long shock.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I am still on the Hightower. Was just saying that the 135 vs 150 does not change the Geo with my setup because I run in the low position with the long shock.

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    Oh gotcha, misunderstood sorry.

    I almost had a HT 2 weeks ago, helluva deal on one but it had just sold when I called the shop to get it. I was bummed as hell. Still living with the 5010v2 for now, until I can figure out what to do next.

    Sorry for thread derail, back to topic...
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Oh gotcha, misunderstood sorry.

    I almost had a HT 2 weeks ago, helluva deal on one but it had just sold when I called the shop to get it. I was bummed as hell. Still living with the 5010v2 for now, until I can figure out what to do next.

    Sorry for thread derail, back to topic...
    There was a really nicely built one on PB a week or so ago that was a really good deal as well.

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Have you tried your HT with a longer fork and better rear shock? You might be surprised at how good it is in this configuration.
    Bumped the pike fork to 150 within the first 30 miles of ownership. Love the HT, just always looking for the next new/best thing...

    A buddy of mine has a Float 36 at 160mm and X2 out back... says it's the best bike he's ever ridden and he's crazy fast on it. I've though about going this direction but for now this is my only mountain bike and want it to be as light as possible and climb well.

    Been thinking of moving to a 2 bikes sort guy with a faster more xc 29er sorta Cannondale Scalpel or RM Element sort of bike and a bigger 160mm sort of trail smasher... what to do?!?!

  32. #32
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    Actually I went the other way. My first SC bike after owning two Treks was Blur XC carbon. Absolutely love this bike and I still ride it from time to time. Then I drank 29 cool-aid and got myself a 29er Highball Carbon. It was too harsh for me. Since I build the Highball with high end components, I ended up buying Tallboy 2 CC frame and I took all the stuff from Highball and put it on the Tallboy. I like the TB a lot it is a great bike but for tight twisty trails and playfulness I still dig much more the smaller wheels. All the time I was hoping that SC would eventually replace the Blur with a 27.5 version of a light XC bike. (They have 27.5 Highball). My patience has run out and since my Blur is aging I bought Pivot Mach 4C with 100mm of front travel. Its geometry is very close to Blur's XC. So far I have absolutely no regrets and if I was to choose between the Mach 4C and the Tallboy, Mach 4C would be the winner. Mind you I live in South east Michigan with lots of twisty single track in the woods and short steeper climbs. Over all it is nice to have various bikes. It is just like the shoes, different pair for different occasion.

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