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  1. #1
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    2009 dhx air, midstroke fixed?

    just what the title asks. i hope so.

  2. #2
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    there is no dhx air going by the pic's on the other 2009 thread. Looks like rockshox air???

  3. #3
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    I think it's gonna have to do more with the frame revision than with the shock. The problem with the Nomad and the DHX air is you have a shock stroke and frame rate that mimic eachother (firm>plus>firm). That shock is great on other bikes with a more linear rate.
    "To crush your enemies, see them driven before, and to hear the lamentation of the women."

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pylie
    there is no dhx air going by the pic's on the other 2009 thread. Looks like rockshox air???

    Yeah, its that bloody monarch 3.3. It's starting to bug me how Santa Cruz is supporting rockshox when Fox is the next city over...I mean come on? Anybody else see the opportunities available?
    "To crush your enemies, see them driven before, and to hear the lamentation of the women."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by audi0phile
    I think it's gonna have to do more with the frame revision than with the shock. The problem with the Nomad and the DHX air is you have a shock stroke and frame rate that mimic eachother (firm>plus>firm). That shock is great on other bikes with a more linear rate.
    is that why they ride better with a coil?

  6. #6
    Doesnt ride Banshees
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    Quote Originally Posted by audi0phile
    Yeah, its that bloody monarch 3.3. It's starting to bug me how Santa Cruz is supporting rockshox when Fox is the next city over...I mean come on? Anybody else see the opportunities available?
    Umm, possibly because of the ride quality associated with rock shox in comparison?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pylie
    is that why they ride better with a coil?

    With regards to the DHX air v coil yes. The damping rate in the Air is slightly different than the coil so the effects of compounding are less with the coil than the air.
    "To crush your enemies, see them driven before, and to hear the lamentation of the women."

  8. #8
    CAN YOU DIG IT??!!??!!!??
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    Quote Originally Posted by pylie
    there is no dhx air going by the pic's on the other 2009 thread. Looks like rockshox air???

    Er, uh...look here...Fox shox 09 DHX air

    http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_bicycle/bike_index.php
    "Why are you willing to take so much & leave others in need...just because you can?"

  9. #9
    TNC
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    Air shocks not equal

    Quote Originally Posted by pylie
    is that why they ride better with a coil?
    The Nomad seems quite sensitive to the air chamber size and performance of a given air shock. Also, most air shocks by nature have a soft beginning and mid stroke, then ramp up quite progressively at the end of stroke. This is where the Manitou ISX-6 is different. While it has what appears to be some unique damping to be specifically geared to the air spring, the twin tube air chamber has a different action than most air springs with a bleed valve between those two chambers that must have a positive effect on air spring performance. I've had the air chamber apart on my ISX-6, and it appears the placement and size of the bleed hole could provide even more tuning elements.

    Anyway, from reading Fox's material on the '09 DHXA, it doesn't appear that much more than the Propedal aspect was tweaked much...and Propedal isn't a good tuning tool for mid-stroke shock performance. It's mainly a beginning stoke element. Changing the can volume on a DHXA helps, but in reality it just moves that annoying "soft spot".

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    The Nomad seems quite sensitive to the air chamber size and performance of a given air shock. Also, most air shocks by nature have a soft beginning and mid stroke, then ramp up quite progressively at the end of stroke. This is where the Manitou ISX-6 is different. While it has what appears to be some unique damping to be specifically geared to the air spring, the twin tube air chamber has a different action than most air springs with a bleed valve between those two chambers that must have a positive effect on air spring performance. I've had the air chamber apart on my ISX-6, and it appears the placement and size of the bleed hole could provide even more tuning elements.

    Anyway, from reading Fox's material on the '09 DHXA, it doesn't appear that much more than the Propedal aspect was tweaked much...and Propedal isn't a good tuning tool for mid-stroke shock performance. It's mainly a beginning stoke element. Changing the can volume on a DHXA helps, but in reality it just moves that annoying "soft spot".
    Hi TNC
    thanks for your recent input re 09 Nomads. Not only did I order a Nomad but also a BLT2, so goodbye Giant.

    Im having a meeting with the SC importer next week to discuss options and build requirements. One thing thats bothering me about the new Nomads is the standard spec Rockshock air shock. Given that I haven't heard anything good about RS air shocks Im surprised by SC speccing these on one of their most popular bikes. I dont know if there are any shock options being offered but Im pretty sure that I go for an air shock even if its not the best for suspension performance. Im really just a trail rider and Im hoping to build my Nomad up at close to 30 pounds.

    Anyone had any experience with Rockshocks latest air offerings???
    Last edited by other aardvark; 08-17-2008 at 05:27 AM.

  11. #11
    TNC
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    Quote Originally Posted by other aardvark
    Hi TNC
    thanks for your recent input re 09 Nomads. Not only did I order a Nomad but also a BLT2, so goodbye Giant.

    Im having a meeting with the SC importer next week to discuss options and build requirements. One thing thats bothering me about the new Nomads is the standard spec Rockshock air shock. Given that I haven't heard anything good about RS air shocks Im surprised by SC speccing these on one of their most popular bikes. I dont know if there are any shock options being offered but Im pretty sure that I go for an air shock even if its not the best for suspension performance. Im really just a trail rider and Im hoping to build my Nomad up at close to 30 pounds.

    Anyone had any experience with Rockshocks latest air offerings???
    I haven't personally used any RS rear shocks, but we've had some through the shop, and I've talked to some at Moab who use them. The Monarch seems to be having some teething problems but will probably be fully addressed. The Vivid seems to be an excellent and simple coil shock. The others in the lineup don't do much for me in the application of a longer travel trail bike...just like I'm not impressed with Fox Floats and similar shocks from other companies. I feel any long travel bike needs a piggyback shock for the mulitiple tuning features they offer. Long travel challenges the limited tuning ability of inline shocks IMO. They'll work on a long travel bike, but not as well as most quality piggyback models. I'd stay away from an RS rear air shock until they offer a more sophisticated piggyback version.

  12. #12
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    On the other hand, if the new Nomad will have improvements made in the stroke curve simmilar to the LT2, than a simple shock might just work.
    I owned LT1 and now own LT2 (same size XL, same shock RP23) and the difference is quite impressive. I loved the LT but the LT2 is just so much quicker both ways up and down...
    LT desperatly needed a platform shock whereas I've only switched the platform on LT2 once. LT just bursts thru the stroke and stiffens in the end (not enough though) whereas LT2 immitates the linear feel of the coil pretty nicely (at least doesn't loose its geo on a small obstacle).
    I weigh 210 naked in the moment and demand quite a bit from that bike.
    I wonder how the LT2 would feel with a coil and probably will try it but I have to admit the imrovement with the same rp23 is very easily noticable (part of it will go to the larger volume and lower pressure for sure, thanks to the i2i being longer now).
    Take the behaviour in the granny for instance. Night and day.
    Hopefully it will be same with the Nomad (which also has some nice amount of kickback in the granny when with DHX air)
    ps: I'd recommend anyone using LT1 or Nomad1 to try the Rotor Q-ring for the granny - it did help me a lot in terms of kickback

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by krolik
    Take the behaviour in the granny for instance. Night and day.
    Hopefully it will be same with the Nomad (which also has some nice amount of kickback in the granny when with DHX air)
    ps: I'd recommend anyone using LT1 or Nomad1 to try the Rotor Q-ring for the granny - it did help me a lot in terms of kickback
    I tried a BLT1 a few years back.
    I pedaled 30 feet down the trail and handed it straight back to its owner. At the time I was riding FSR style bikes and found the amount of interaction between the pedals and VPP suspension really unpleasant. I also have tried a couple of Intense VPP bikes and was left feeling under-welmed. I really was perplexed why people raved about theses bikes.

    When a BLT2 demo bike was offered to me for a day I was reluctant to take it out. It took a bit of time to to get a good set up but I ended up having a blast!!! So much so that Im buying one ( and a 09 Nomad too).


    I probably have spent about 4 hours between 2 BLT2 test bikes and being 240 pounds and with poor fitness, Ive spent a lot of time in "granny". Regarding "kickback", I found that I needed to run a bit more rebound damping then I usually would and time my pedaling over up hill obstacles. Strangely I found that it seemed to better to run a lighter platform damping setting on rough granny climbs. Running a heavy platform setting seemed to just exaggerate the kickback.

    It seems that on the BLT2 middle ring is where all the gravy is.
    Two big pluses re the BLT2 pedaling in middle ring were

    1) I could just jump up and stomp on the pedals to get some momentum for clearing obstacles . I love the way the BLT2 just spurts forward with every pedal stroke.

    2) how well the bike maintained traction and handled sharp edge hits under power.

    Stomping the pedals on my 08 Giant Reign would result in a lot of up and down movement and not much forward acceleration. Thats unless I locked out the shock then I would loose traction.

    Pedaling in "granny" on the BLT2 doesn't seem to bad as its feels quite firm on smooth climbs. Even the "kickback" seems to have a up side in that if I timed my pedaling over an up hill obstacles I could actually gain some momentum from the suspention. I found if I coasted till I reached the apex of the log and then stomped down on the pedals the kickback would push hard down the face of the obstacle resulting in a bit of a push forward.

    Sorry, it seems that Ive gone off on a bit of a BLT2 rave
    Last edited by other aardvark; 08-17-2008 at 11:25 PM.

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