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Thread: Wood chipper

  1. #1
    fux
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    Wood chipper

    Are these things out yet? I`m looking to try some on my laCruz.
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    Nope

    Quote Originally Posted by fux
    Are these things out yet? I`m looking to try some on my laCruz.
    Not out yet but they are in production. We are hoping December 09. Here is a link to a blog entry on the Woodchipper's on the Salsa Amigo's blog. I will be following up with set up and delivery once we have a confirmed shipping date.

    Thanks and have a nice weekend.

    Jason
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  3. #3
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    hmm, that was unexpectedly personal. Streight from the horses mouth.

    Well, at least I know what to ask for, for christmas

    Thanks Jason
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    Hmmm. I know I'm opening a can of worm when I ask about measurements, but...

    Where are the measurements of 42 and 46 cm taken? It looks like the hooks (where the brakes are mounted) are actually narrower than the tops, then flare out to the ends. Does that mean the tops are 46-50cm?

    I know it's not an entirely accurate assessment of usability, but how wide are these bars at the tips?

    TIA.

    I'm very excited about the prospect of these bars having recently declared my WTB's unsuitable for my MTB (too much reach/drop).
    I'm covered in beer.

  5. #5
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    I'll get the skinny

    Quote Originally Posted by CLONG
    Hmmm. I know I'm opening a can of worm when I ask about measurements, but...

    Where are the measurements of 42 and 46 cm taken? It looks like the hooks (where the brakes are mounted) are actually narrower than the tops, then flare out to the ends. Does that mean the tops are 46-50cm?

    I know it's not an entirely accurate assessment of usability, but how wide are these bars at the tips?

    TIA.

    I'm very excited about the prospect of these bars having recently declared my WTB's unsuitable for my MTB (too much reach/drop).
    I'll grab a couple of bars later today and do the physical measurements and repost.

    Jason
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  6. #6
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    How are Woodchippers measured?

    This is a great question...One of which requires a little explanation.

    First, the Woodchippers are measured center to center at th widest part of the forward bend. We are making these in both a 42 and a 46.

    Second, the way the bar is bent, it appears that there is a small bend inward where you attach the levers. This is minimal, as in a couple of mm's, but it does have a slight inward bend.

    Third, the flat section after the drop is long. This is intentional as in our opinion, the current bars are not long enough. You can cut to fit if you wish. At the very widest point (outside to outside) the 46cm bar I have in my hands measures 645mm, or just shy of 26inches. Remember, if you use bar ends, it will add even more width.

    Hope this helps.

    Jason
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  7. #7
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    Thanks for the detailed explanation. Holy cow I like the sounds of this bar.

    The widest point of the drop is a great spot for open cruising when you don't need to cover the brakes, but I usually put my hands up in the hooks for technical riding...so I guess that's an 80mm reach on these bars.

    I gotta say, I appreciate the long flat section (top and bottom) and lack of ergonomic gadgetry. I guess I wont cut my steerer after all.

    How do I find Salsa parts in Canada? I only see dealers listed on the website.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLONG
    Thanks for the detailed explanation. Holy cow I like the sounds of this bar.

    The widest point of the drop is a great spot for open cruising when you don't need to cover the brakes, but I usually put my hands up in the hooks for technical riding...so I guess that's an 80mm reach on these bars.

    I gotta say, I appreciate the long flat section (top and bottom) and lack of ergonomic gadgetry. I guess I wont cut my steerer after all.

    How do I find Salsa parts in Canada? I only see dealers listed on the website.
    The drops are very long, much longer than any dropbar I have seen, so that tip-to-tip width can be misleading. But nobody is ever going to complain about not having enough room.

    The "official" width at the forward most point really does make sense functionally with a flared bar and is also used with the other Salsa dropbars.
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    What kind of riding are these bars capable of? Last night I snapped my offroad drop bars (manufacturer to remain unnamed for now) hopping down a loading dock on my rigid. I'd like to stick with drops but aluminum sort of gives me the willies now...

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    I'm not asking for a guarantee, I just want to know if these are fairly beefy bars... carpal tunnel means straight bars mess my wrists up and it would be a shame if bar choice dictated my riding style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnypecans
    I'm not asking for a guarantee, I just want to know if these are fairly beefy bars... carpal tunnel means straight bars mess my wrists up and it would be a shame if bar choice dictated my riding style.
    these are listed under the mountain handlebars on their website. they are made for off road use. hope this helps.
    Drew
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnypecans
    I'm not asking for a guarantee, I just want to know if these are fairly beefy bars... carpal tunnel means straight bars mess my wrists up and it would be a shame if bar choice dictated my riding style.
    No Woodchipper knowledge to share.

    I have had some pretty thick walled dropbars sag severely over the years. Yet to have any break while riding, though I bent one or two in crashes.

    I measure the width across the tips every couple of months. When it is 1cm narrower than new, I replace the bar.
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    I was only riding my bars for about 8 months when they snapped; they're 6061 aluminum, so I guess a 7075 bar would be sturdier.

    It doesn't look like Salsa plans to respond to my question- I'm sure they're worried about liability if they make any claims about durability. It would be nice if they came up with some kind of response, though... I'm certainly not inclined to buy any bars (or anything else for that matter) from them if they're not even going to dignify the question.

    drew k.: Mine were rated for offroad use as well, although the manufacturer clarified it as "only light xc and cyclocross" when I described the breakage incident. They suggested I needed freeride risers...

  14. #14
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    I just got a new Fargo (stock build), and I'm really enjoying it, however I have some tweaking to do regarding handlebar and stem setup before I'm 100% happy. The Woodchipper bar sound very interesting, but I'm confused about the reach dimension specified on the Salsa website. I've heard the Woodchipper described as having less reach and a shallower drop than the stock Moto Ace Bell Lap bar, which is exactly what I need, however the specs list the reach of the Bell Lap bar as 82 mm, and the Woodchipper as 110 mm. This makes me wonder:

    1) How is reach measured for the Salsa bars? And are they measured the same for these two bars?

    2) Are the specs correct, does the Woodchipper bar really have 3 cm more reach than the Bell Lap? That's a huge difference, I would expect the off-road oriented bar to have less reach to give a more upright position and make the drops more usable.

    For comparison, the Junebug bar (http://www.somafab.com/bar_junebug.html) which Doug_ID uses (as mentioned in the eminent Fargo thread at The Salsa Fargo Thread, post #480) is listed as having a much shorter reach of 65 cm, however the Junebug and Woodchipper don't look radically different. Reach must be measured differently between these bars.

    Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has to share!

    Follow up:


    I think the specs on the website (http://www.salsacycles.com/handlebars_mtn.html) are incorrect, the reach of the Woodchipper is listed here as 110 mm, but at http://www.salsacycles.com/amigos/la...odchipper.html it's described as 80 mm. If Jason (Salsa crew dude) is reading this, you might want to fix this inconsistency. Thanks, and assuming 80 mm is correct, I'm looking forward to trying the Woodchipper!
    http://www.salsacycles.com/amigos/la...odchipper.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnypecans
    I'm not asking for a guarantee, I just want to know if these are fairly beefy bars... carpal tunnel means straight bars mess my wrists up and it would be a shame if bar choice dictated my riding style.
    They are 100-percent designed for off-road riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnypecans
    I was only riding my bars for about 8 months when they snapped; they're 6061 aluminum, so I guess a 7075 bar would be sturdier.

    It doesn't look like Salsa plans to respond to my question- I'm sure they're worried about liability if they make any claims about durability. It would be nice if they came up with some kind of response, though... I'm certainly not inclined to buy any bars (or anything else for that matter) from them if they're not even going to dignify the question.
    You will get a response... Don't worry. But if you require a more immediate response from Salsa, I'd recommend sending them a direct email. They are always very prompt with customer (or simply public) inquiries, based on my experience.

    And I have to say that, if you were riding a bar rated for "cyclocross or light off-road use" and you broke it riding it on a mountain bike, you should have known. The Woodchipper is designed to be a mountain bike handlebar. That much I know. It is not a freeride part, but it is a XC mountain bike handlebar, and can take all of the riding and rigor that goes along with that type of riding. The prototype of the Woodchipper survived the Great Divide Route under Joe Meiser, the bar's designer, so I think that fact alone can stand on its own merit.

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    The bend on the Wood Chipper looks very similar to a randonneur bar. Is that about right, or is there I difference I am missing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd
    The bend on the Wood Chipper looks very similar to a randonneur bar. Is that about right, or is there I difference I am missing?
    It is very different. No up curve, it flares two ways, the reach curves in, much wider (even the narrower version. measured at the forward most point rather than the tips), and the drop section is very long. The reach and drop are much less on the WC.
    Wood chipper-hb1021.jpg

    Wood chipper-hb8106.jpg
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  19. #19
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    Off Road Dirt Drop

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnypecans
    I'm not asking for a guarantee, I just want to know if these are fairly beefy bars... carpal tunnel means straight bars mess my wrists up and it would be a shame if bar choice dictated my riding style.
    The Woodchipper is an off road dirt drop bar. I'm with you, straight bars are not working for very well for me.

    OH...And there is a misprint in the new Dirt Rag, Joe Meiser did not ride the Woodchipper in the Tour Divide, he used a Salsa Bell Lap bar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    It is very different. No up curve, it flares two ways, the reach curves in, much wider (even the narrower version. measured at the forward most point rather than the tips), and the drop section is very long. The reach and drop are much less on the WC.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Great pictures. Thanks. Happy Thanksgiving!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dreeeewwllllll!

    Trans Iowa bar, anyone?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLONG
    How do I find Salsa parts in Canada? I only see dealers listed on the website.
    Well DUh you find them at canadian dealers. I'd suggest phat moose cycles myself.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    Dreeeewwllllll!

    Trans Iowa bar, anyone?
    Yeah, no kidding. Any sort of fire roading, gravel, or light off roader running a road, cross, monstercross, or drop bar 29"er ought to give these a serious look.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Yeah, no kidding. Any sort of fire roading, gravel, or light off roader running a road, cross, monstercross, or drop bar 29"er ought to give these a serious look.
    A 46 is going on the Karate Monkey as soon as they get off the boat.


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    And on my Mariachi. QBP did not show them in stock as of today.
    MUD


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    Quote Originally Posted by A from Il
    And on my Mariachi. QBP did not show them in stock as of today.

    Son of a B$$$$

    Can't stand the waiting!!

  27. #27
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    I was hoping these babies would turn up before christmas.
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  28. #28
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    Have the local bike shop put them on "item watch", the minute they go into stock they will be notified and the order can be put in. That's what I'm doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Have the local bike shop put them on "item watch", the minute they go into stock they will be notified and the order can be put in. That's what I'm doing.
    I just go behind the counter and check myself. My guy orders weekly so he or I are always checking.
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    My weiner is 10.5".....Oh wait...I'm holding this ruler backward.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by A from Il
    And on my Mariachi.
    +One
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  31. #31
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    Just got this comment on Twenty Nine Inches:
    Guess what folks. GT has the crystal ball and correctly predicted the arrival of the Woodchipper bars. The 25.4 bars in both 42cm and 46cm just hit stock at QBP. Limited quantities and this first production will be gone fast........
    31.8 Woodchipper bars are due around Christmas.
    Have at 'em!
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  32. #32
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    Just wanted to share the latest news I have on availability of the new Woodchipper. I just spoke to my local Salsa dealer (been bugging them a lot lately and while the 25.4 bars are available the 31.8 (specifically the 46 cm width ones) won't be available until January. My dealer wasn't able to be more specific about when in January.

    Also I've seen these bars show up on the Universal Cycles website but they are listed as out of stock:
    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=33295

    Looks like I've got another month to wait. Anybody have any other news about the 31.8s?

  33. #33
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    First week of January 2010 for 31.8's

    Quote Originally Posted by HOser
    Just wanted to share the latest news I have on availability of the new Woodchipper. I just spoke to my local Salsa dealer (been bugging them a lot lately and while the 25.4 bars are available the 31.8 (specifically the 46 cm width ones) won't be available until January. My dealer wasn't able to be more specific about when in January.

    Also I've seen these bars show up on the Universal Cycles website but they are listed as out of stock:
    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=33295

    Looks like I've got another month to wait. Anybody have any other news about the 31.8s?
    I just checked inbound. They are due to our doors the short week between X-mas and New Years. I call it a short week because our office is closed Thursday the 31st and Friday Jan 1st. Look for the first shipment of 31.8's in stock the first week of Jan 2010.

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  34. #34
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    Jason-

    Thanks for the news, appreciate that you're keeping us all updated via this forum.

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    I'm a little bummed that I have to buy a new stem if I want to add put the woodchipper on my '09 Fargos. I (wrongly) expected to be able to swap it out once available. Just an unexpected expense amongst many while planning a GDR tour.

    Well, if I have to get a new stem how do I decide which woodchipper diameter to get?
    And now I'm wondering if I can tweak my fit with a different stem.

    I did a quick search and there aren't any reviews of the Pro Moto Stem out there on the interweb. I saw GnatLikesBikes post on the Ti version. Is it worth the dough or should I just buy another Moto Ace stem with the same length and rise but a different diameter clamp?

  36. #36
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    Regarding the issue of deciding what clamp diameter to pick for a Woodchipper I was torn too, but ended up ordering a 31.8 (I don't have it yet, hopefully it will come in January). Here are the points that influenced my reasoning, maybe they'll help you out:

    -> The 31.8 is 7000 series aluminum, the 25.4 is 6000 series, 7000 is the superior alloy (I'm a mechanical engineer with a material science background, so I pay attention to this stuff See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy for some good info).

    -> The 31.8 is lighter for the same size.

    -> Presumably the 31.8 will flex less because of the greater diameter at the clamp - but then again, not sure, there are more variables involved than just outer diameter.

    -> Downside of the 31.8 is I'm afraid it will be harder to mount stuff to the bar, like lights and a GPS. The butt where the outer diameter reduces from 31.8 to whatever the rest of the bar is is right near where you'd mount this kind of stuff. Hopefully I won't regret my choice. If this is a concern for you, maybe 25.4 is a good choice.

  37. #37
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    Well, to address curriergroh, if you have a stock '09 Fargo why is it that you feel it necessary to change stems? (It isn't clear to me in your post, sorry) For example, I swapped out from stock Bell Laps to a Midge using the same stem. Not a problem for fit, in fact, in improves the fit for rough roads and off road. If it is because of clamp size, then please disregard my question.

    As for the concerns posted by HOser I would point out that traditionally 7000 series aluminum, while being stronger, is also more brittle. Vintage roadie folks treasure the 6000 series bars for this reason due to the propensity of old 7000 series bars breaking.

    Not saying you made a wrong choice, or that 7000 series Pro Moto Woodchippers are bad, just pointing out what has played out historically in drop bar usuage.

    Anyway........

    The top section of 46cm Woodchippers is huge! Even with the taper for the 31.8mm clamp diameter, there is plenty of realestate to mount stuff. Having it slightly offcenter from where you can have it on a 25.4mm bar is going to be a matter of a few millimeters and shouldn't give anyone any problems mounting accessories.

    I'll have a post coming up on Twentynine Inches that will list all the pertinent dimensions of a 46cm Woodchipper against the Midge Bar and Gary Bar. This should demonstrate how much room there really is on this design.
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  38. #38
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    I've done a bit more research and I think I'm going with the 25.4 because of my intended use, the Great Divide Route. I'm choosing the 25.4 because I expect it to flex more, and in my case this is good. It should help to reduce hand fatigue. Thanks for your input.

    Has anyone installed the 25.4 woodchipper on an '09 Fargo with the stock stem with shims and experienced slipping?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by curriergroh
    I've done a bit more research and I think I'm going with the 25.4 because of my intended use, the Great Divide Route. I'm choosing the 25.4 because I expect it to flex more, and in my case this is good. It should help to reduce hand fatigue. Thanks for your input.

    Has anyone installed the 25.4 woodchipper on an '09 Fargo with the stock stem with shims and experienced slipping?
    The 25.4mm stem clamp version indeed does have a nice springy nature. Stock Fargo bikes came out initially with 25.4mm clamp compatible stems, so no need for a shim. Unless you have a 31.8mm clamp diameter stem, a shim won't be necessary.

    I do have a Midge Bar set up with a 31.8mm stem using shims and it has been rock solid. No slipping. You just need to line up the shim halves with the break inbetween the stem cap and stem shaft so the shims don't overlap there and it'll be fine.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Stock Fargo bikes came out initially with 25.4mm clamp compatible stems, so no need for a shim. Unless you have a 31.8mm clamp diameter stem, a shim won't be necessary.
    Can you clarify this. I hope you are right.

    I have a stock 2009 Fargo Large which came with a
    Moto Ace, 26.0mm, 1-1/8", 100mm stem and
    Moto Ace Bell Lap Bar 46 cm

    Are you saying that the 26 mm clamp stem that I have is compatible with 25.4 mm bars.
    I emailed Salsa and they said I would have to shim or replace the stem.

    Thanks for the help.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by curriergroh
    Can you clarify this. I hope you are right.

    I have a stock 2009 Fargo Large which came with a
    Moto Ace, 26.0mm, 1-1/8", 100mm stem and
    Moto Ace Bell Lap Bar 46 cm

    Are you saying that the 26 mm clamp stem that I have is compatible with 25.4 mm bars.
    I emailed Salsa and they said I would have to shim or replace the stem.

    Thanks for the help.
    I got a really early one and it had a CroMoto stem.

    I swapped out the Bell lap for a Midge with no issue. However; if it were me, and I was doing something like the GDR, I would just go ahead and get a new stem. They are not that expensive, and you get away from shims, or using a stem not optimized for the 25.4mm Woodchipper.

    I don't think there is really any debate about that.
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  42. #42
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    these look really interesting- way to come out with another cool product!

    I will be rocking the pro road bars on my gravel ride until I actually see these in person though- I'm not sure the advantages are for me.

  43. #43
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    Woodchipper

    Does anyone with QBP access know if the 31.8 bars made it into stock yet?

    Thanks,
    jw
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    "And single-speeding 29ers are mountain biking's equivalent of Scientologists..." - Captain Dondo

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    As of yesterday. Nope.
    MUD


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  45. #45
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    are the 25.4 in stock? my LBS is seeing them as not available until mid feb

    I'm may change my stem, but that's $50 out of my pr0n stash for this year

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    As of right now, Universal cycles has plenty of the 46cm x 31.8 in stock. Mine is shipping today! Only shows 1 of the 46 x 25.4. Hurry.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave29er
    As of right now, Universal cycles has plenty of the 46cm x 31.8 in stock. Mine is shipping today! Only shows 1 of the 46 x 25.4. Hurry.

    For their price I'll wait. I'll only pay half that and there is snow (alot) on the ground here anyway.
    MUD


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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave29er
    As of right now, Universal cycles has plenty of the 46cm x 31.8 in stock. Mine is shipping today! Only shows 1 of the 46 x 25.4. Hurry.
    Sure they're in stock ... I ordered a 46cm x 25.4 bar and associated parts on Sunday. My order was supposed to ship by Wednesday, still hasn't. I'm not 100% sure that it's the woodchipper that's holding up my order, but I'd bet a dollar to a donut that it is.
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  49. #49
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    how much bar tape?

    How much bar tape will I need to wrap the 46cm woodchipper if I'm not going to cut the drops? I ordered two salsa gel cork wraps, one per side, but now I'm wondering if it'll be too short.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by joraff
    How much bar tape will I need to wrap the 46cm woodchipper if I'm not going to cut the drops? I ordered two salsa gel cork wraps, one per side, but now I'm wondering if it'll be too short.
    Good question. The last time I wrapped a road bar I used Cinelli tape which was enough to do one bar. So this time I only ordered one roll (package, whatever) of the Salsa tape. I hope that's enough, but with my luck, it won't be..
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  51. #51
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    Bah! It's been a while since I've wrapped road bars for me too, and I guess forgot that each package should come with two rolls - one for the L and R. I ordered two packages thinking I needed one for each side, so I should be fine even it one isn't enough

    I'll just double wrap it for extra comfiness

  52. #52
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    Universal cycles ran out of woodchippers and delayed my order

    Fortunately, they had ordered more from QBP before QBP sold out and should ship out from Oregon on Wednesday. And the part that makes universal cycles so awesome, and the reason I usually try to order from them as often as I can - they split the difference to bump up to UPS 2nd day. Awesome!

    I might have my woodchippers for weekend adventuring after all!

  53. #53
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    Just put mine on! Waiting on new tape, and once I figure out the set up, I will post a pic!

  54. #54
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    I ordered a set last week and they are here today - along with a new Fargo! Should be on tomorrow.
    Bikeman sent me an email few days back saying they had some in stock. Price was cheaper than Universal which is where mine came from. Might want to check there....<shrug>
    Wally

  55. #55
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    Mine arrived today. Nice bars, and very light. Unfortunately, with no flare to speak of, I'm not sure if they're going to replace my Midges when I build up the Fargo. These may be going back or up for sale soon.

    Truly a wealth of useless information.


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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTB-rider
    Mine arrived today. Nice bars, and very light. Unfortunately, with no flare to speak of, I'm not sure if they're going to replace my Midges when I build up the Fargo. These may be going back or up for sale soon.
    Mine should be here Friday.

    I wondered about the flare, after seeing the comparisons posted by G-T. I expect to be mostly riding country pavement and gravel with mine so hopefully the flare won't present a problem. That, and since I don't have any experience with another off-road drop bar, I won't know the difference anyway.
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  57. #57
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    bars arrived

    My 46cm x 31.8 version showed up yesterday. I took them home and began installing them on my Fargo.

    One question for those who have experience with these bars: Did you end up cutting them down somewhat when using bar end shifters? The length of the drops seems excessively long in the stock form. (I'm a middle size guy, large gloves)

    Also, I tend to ride the hoods and reach down to shift, seems like extra distance with the longer drops. I'll probably try them as is before cutting, just thought I'd see what the range of responses are.

  58. #58
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    Mine showed up today with the Thomson stem to boot.
    MUD


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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATXSS
    My 46cm x 31.8 version showed up yesterday. I took them home and began installing them on my Fargo.

    One question for those who have experience with these bars: Did you end up cutting them down somewhat when using bar end shifters? The length of the drops seems excessively long in the stock form. (I'm a middle size guy, large gloves)

    Also, I tend to ride the hoods and reach down to shift, seems like extra distance with the longer drops. I'll probably try them as is before cutting, just thought I'd see what the range of responses are.
    No Woodchippers yet, but I always cut the bar for use with barend shifters to make it easier to reach.

    Best to try before you cut, and shorten the bar is small increments until you find the length you like.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    No Woodchippers yet,
    .
    Don, I'm sure you've eyeballed them from pics at least. From one old time drops user to another, I'm not sure about the lack of flare. Any thoughts?

    Truly a wealth of useless information.


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  61. #61
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    Mine showed up today as well via Bikeman. I've been riding Midge bars for the last 3 years, so it will be interesting to see how they compare for fit and comfort.

    jw
    -

    "And single-speeding 29ers are mountain biking's equivalent of Scientologists..." - Captain Dondo

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOne
    Mine showed up today as well via Bikeman. I've been riding Midge bars for the last 3 years, so it will be interesting to see how they compare for fit and comfort.

    jw

    Please post your impressions.

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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATXSS
    My 46cm x 31.8 version showed up yesterday. I took them home and began installing them on my Fargo.
    Mind me asking where you got yours? Don't suppose BicycleSportShop has them in yet?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTB-rider
    Please post your impressions.
    I have been running Midge bars for quite a while now and I have had the Woodchippers on for just a wee bit, but here is my initial take.

    Brake lever accessability is better with a Midge from the drop, but only slightly, and I haven't tweaked out the Woodchipper yet to make any final call.

    The Woodchipper definitely has better leverage and control in poor traction conditions.

    The Woodchipper definitely has better compliance.

    I am using a 25.4mm clamp diameter, by the way.
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    I have been running Midge bars for quite a while now and I have had the Woodchippers on for just a wee bit, but here is my initial take.

    Brake lever accessability is better with a Midge from the drop, but only slightly, and I haven't tweaked out the Woodchipper yet to make any final call.

    The Woodchipper definitely has better leverage and control in poor traction conditions.

    The Woodchipper definitely has better compliance.

    I am using a 25.4mm clamp diameter, by the way.
    Thanks GT. As I've posted about 900 times already the lack of flare is of the greatest concern to me as I cut my "off-road drop bar teeth" on the original WTB (still use it on my Steve Potts) and transitioned to the Midge when they first became available. Both bars with a healthy flare to them.

    There's only going to be one way for me to truly decide whether or not the Woodchipper replaces Midge and that's to mount it up and ride it, looks like my Fargo will be an all Salsa build (if I ever get around to completing it) I do appreciate your input though. BTW, mine is of the 25.4 variety as well.

    Truly a wealth of useless information.


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  66. #66
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    More woodchipper drama.. Just got a tracking number from universal.... for a USPS package. So much for the UPS 2-day upgrade, and so much for the weekend riding I had planned.

    Hope its just an error on their part and that I have some bars waiting for me at my front door tomorrow. Heck, maybe I even got shipped two bars (unlikely).

    Anyone near me (texas) have some junebugs or midges I can get by this weekend? I just want to frickin' ride!

  67. #67
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    More drama, but not woodchipper specific, only woodchipper related - My bar and related parts finally arrived from Universal. I ordered Ultegra 8 speed barcons to work with my 8 speed XT derailleur. I received Dura-Ace barcons "SL-BS50-8" which are for Dura-Ace derailleurs only - as far as I've been able to figure out so far. Just my luck.

    I confirmed it with Shimano, shifters won't work, I need the ones I ordered, not the ones I received. Here goes another week of waiting.

    The bar looks nice though.
    Last edited by wv_bob; 01-15-2010 at 01:17 PM.
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTB-rider
    Don, I'm sure you've eyeballed them from pics at least. From one old time drops user to another, I'm not sure about the lack of flare. Any thoughts?
    They do flare, horizontally, but not much vertically (the levers stay mostly straight up and down). The horizontal flare is more important, though I do like some vert, too.

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  69. #69
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    Couldn't you just raise the bars a little to achieve the same vertical flare? i.e. an extra 5mm spacer would be something like a 4º vertical rise?

    Or am I following you on all the wrong planes...

    I also don't want to hear anyone else say they received and love their bars until I get mine. Can someone lock the thread until wednesday?

  70. #70
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    Here's a quick photo of my first mock up

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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by joraff
    Couldn't you just raise the bars a little to achieve the same vertical flare? i.e. an extra 5mm spacer would be something like a 4º vertical rise?

    Or am I following you on all the wrong planes...

    I also don't want to hear anyone else say they received and love their bars until I get mine. Can someone lock the thread until wednesday?
    Vertical flare / \ is in the bend, not the setup.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    Here's a quick photo of my first mock up
    bob, those are much higher on the bend(?) than I was expecting to see. Does that place the levers pretty far out of reach when in the drops?
    Are they that high to decrease the amount of reach to the hoods? I don't like some of these drop bar setups where you almost reach down the bend of the bars to rest on the hoods. At least in theory I don't think I would - never actually felt any.

    Thanks shiggy, guess I need to brush up on my handlebar terminology.

    A Mike from universal cycles call me a bit ago about my woodchipper order... seems they found a loophole (aka BUG) in their order fulfillment system, where if you upgrade shipping after the order is placed AND switch warehouses, the upgraded shipping doesn't come through - or something like that. Very apologetic and made things right. Seems I'll have my bars after all, just a bit later than I had hoped. I'll take the flo-wings off my single speed for now just to get out and ride. A friend offered his midge bar, but I don't want to waste some wrap just for a few days.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by joraff
    bob, those are much higher on the bend(?) than I was expecting to see. Does that place the levers pretty far out of reach when in the drops?
    Are they that high to decrease the amount of reach to the hoods? I don't like some of these drop bar setups where you almost reach down the bend of the bars to rest on the hoods. At least in theory I don't think I would - never actually felt any.
    I was working from memory, based on a thread I read from Guitar Ted. I might've gotten it wrong though, you're the 2nd person to say they're too high. Once I find those links again, I'll set as per that advice.

    Here's that link from Ted http://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com...rt-iii_20.html

    Also, I talked to Mike at UC yesterday too. He noticed that my shifter's are just in the wrong box, there's a tiny sticker on one that says they're not Dura-Ace compatible, so I'm good to go on that front.
    Last edited by wv_bob; 01-16-2010 at 07:21 AM.
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  74. #74
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    For brake lever placement I see a line drawn though your fore arm/wrist/lever and they all line up pretty closely on that imaginary line. So, yes.......the levers are still too high.

    A good test is that if you are in the hooks seated on the saddle properly, your hand should make no upward motion what so ever to reach the lever. Your wrist should not have to "cock" upward or bend. You should be able to reach your finger straight outwards and pointed down towards a point just in fronnt of your front wheel and be able to get a grip around the end of the lever.

    Yes............it will look goofy.

    Yes.............your hoods may not work for a grip anymore.

    But for a proper dirt drop set up, this is the primo way to go.
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  75. #75
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    Better ?



    More photos in this VRC thread New year, new project (WTB content)
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  76. #76
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    Yeah, that's looking good.

    I am following this on the VRC forum as well, thanks for the links.

    By the way, I am a big 29"er nut, but if I found a Phoenix with rollercams it would be hard for me to say no. Nice bike you have there!

    I always thought they were intriguing bikes. Hope that works out well for you and you get a lot more miles on it!
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  77. #77
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    Yeah, I love my 29er for what it adds - the big wheels and bigger travel fork makes it easier for this old guy to keep riding the roots rocks and log crossings - but my Phoenix is a whole different breed. I do wish it had disc mounts though - maybe it'll grow some if I ever repaint it.
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    More drama, but not woodchipper specific, only woodchipper related - My bar and related parts finally arrived from Universal. I ordered Ultegra 8 speed barcons to work with my 8 speed XT derailleur. I received Dura-Ace barcons "SL-BS50-8" which are for Dura-Ace derailleurs only - as far as I've been able to figure out so far. Just my luck.

    I confirmed it with Shimano, shifters won't work, I need the ones I ordered, not the ones I received. Here goes another week of waiting.
    Did you check the actual shifters inside the box? The Ultegra bar cons I ordered through my favorite LBS came in a box that was labeled as being Dura-Ace SL-BS50-8. The lump in my throat went away when I checked inside and found that they were indeed the SL-BS64-8 ones I wanted.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonno
    Mind me asking where you got yours? Don't suppose BicycleSportShop has them in yet?
    I ordered them from QBP (Salsa's distributor) when they popped in stock. We aren't stocking them at the moment. Easy to special order with a phone call. Email me at scott_l at bicyclesportshop dot com. and perhaps you can check mine out first.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    Better ?



    More photos in this VRC thread New year, new project (WTB content)
    I would probably spilt the difference between the two pics. Just be sure to ride and confirm the position before you wrap the bars.
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by klydesdale
    Did you check the actual shifters inside the box? The Ultegra bar cons I ordered through my favorite LBS came in a box that was labeled as being Dura-Ace SL-BS50-8. The lump in my throat went away when I checked inside and found that they were indeed the SL-BS64-8 ones I wanted.
    Yep, that mix up has been fixed and the shifting works great.

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    I would probably spilt the difference between the two pics. Just be sure to ride and confirm the position before you wrap the bars.
    Thanks, I agree. I noticed during yesterday's ride that I can use the drops as a hand position, but the tilt of the lever caused a definite forward weight shift.
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  82. #82
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    I just finished wrapping my Woodchippers. It did take me 3 tries to get the brakes right. I had them too high. A couple of quick rides down my driveway showed the error in my placement, for my hands real quick. I then raised the rear of the bars up a bit and it feels real good. But I will take a longer ride before I make a final judgement. If any movement will be needed it will minimal. These feel sooooo good!

    I went with 31.8 bars so I just ordered the same stem in 100mm @ 105 deg and I found I needed to move my seat back a bit. No issues with turning and hit knees or with the controls. Overall pretty sweet.
    Wally

  83. #83
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    I got my Woodchipper this past Thursday (31.8 mm clamp, 46 cm width) and got it installed over the weekend on my Fargo. I've putted around enough to be confident in the set up (brake lever position, handle bar angle, etc). but have yet to get a real ride in. Thought I'd share some pictures.

    Here's the Woodchipper up against the stock handlebar. The flare of the bottom section is really noticable, reach and drop look similar:




    Here's the bar installed. I used a new Salsa stem (90 mm length, 115 degree angle, 31.8 clamp), which is a bit shorter and higher than the 100 mm, 105 degree stock stem that came on my Fargo. With these pics I have yet to install bar tape, I wanted to ride around a bit and tweak the brake lever position first:



    Here's the final result, with bar tape. I'm pretty new to drop bars and this was my first bar wrap. The instructions at the Park tool website are pretty good, they helped me a lot, plus I took lots of pictures as I unwrapped my old bars to "reverse engineer" the original wrap.

    I ended up with the brake levers pretty low. Putting them low felt most comfortable (no wrist bending necessary from the drops) but I was a little uncertain at first just based on the appearance. However, GT's advice matches my experience - the best place for the levers for riding in the drops will make the hoods unusable, but that's OK with me:




    So far my stem choice feels perfect. Ocho mentioned moving his saddle in response to the handlebar position, I personally never do this. I've had IT band issues in the past and am careful to position my saddle at the same spot relative to the bottom bracket on all my bikes. I use stems and steerer tube length only to adjust reach to the bars.

    Thanks to everyone posting helpful info on this Salsa forum, it's helped me a lot guide my Fargo experience.

  84. #84
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    I had not set my saddle up waiting for the bars to be installed first before messing with it. My gut told me it felt right but I was wrong.
    I set up my saddle based on that old timey plumb line from the knee to the pedal axle. Don't have to worry about seat angle or anything and it works for me everytime.
    Wally

  85. #85
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    Interesting, the Park site says to wrap to the inside. I wrapped to the outside, thinking that my hands would mostly be at or below the brakes, with the tendency for my weight to want to rotate my hands to the outside.

    I guess my question is - does it really matter?
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    Interesting, the Park site says to wrap to the inside. I wrapped to the outside, thinking that my hands would mostly be at or below the brakes, with the tendency for my weight to want to rotate my hands to the outside.

    I guess my question is - does it really matter?
    Wrapping handlebars brings out the "fashion police" I'm sure, but I have always wrapped from the extensions towards the stem with the right side clockwise and the left side counter-clockwise. as seen from the saddle.

    YMMV.
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    Interesting, the Park site says to wrap to the inside. I wrapped to the outside, thinking that my hands would mostly be at or below the brakes, with the tendency for my weight to want to rotate my hands to the outside.

    I guess my question is - does it really matter?
    I usually wrap bar end to stem, out over the top on the drops, and back over the top on the tops.
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  88. #88
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    Then that makes 3 of us (at least) that do it different from the Park tool site.
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Wrapping handlebars brings out the "fashion police" I'm sure, but I have always wrapped from the extensions towards the stem with the right side clockwise and the left side counter-clockwise. as seen from the saddle.

    YMMV.
    No "fashion police" on this thread, I hope - we're not putting these Woodchippers on 16 lb carbon frame road bikes.

    I followed the Park instructions on wrap direction. My original bars went the opposite way, which agrees with how you guys describe doing it. Maybe I'll regret my choice, we'll see. If so I'll sue Park Tool for the cost of bar wrap.

  90. #90
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    I am putting these on my El Mariachi. What is the best shifter setup for the Sram drivetrain? Switch derailleur and run Shimano?
    Just currious as to what else I need to buy.
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by A from Il
    I am putting these on my El Mariachi. What is the best shifter setup for the Sram drivetrain? Switch derailleur and run Shimano?
    Just currious as to what else I need to buy.
    Keep in mind that SRAM road and SRAM mtb are not compatible with each other. You can run 9sp STI road levers with rear mtb Shimano stuff, but you may have sub-optimal front shifting with a triple mtb derailluer unless you know some tricks.
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  92. #92
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    I just have a single up front so that is a non issue. I think I will sell the X( shifter and derailuer and puck up a Deore and barcon 9 speed. I run that on a X bike and it works fine.
    MUD


    My weiner is 10.5".....Oh wait...I'm holding this ruler backward.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATXSS
    I ordered them from QBP (Salsa's distributor) when they popped in stock. We aren't stocking them at the moment. Easy to special order with a phone call. Email me at scott_l at bicyclesportshop dot com. and perhaps you can check mine out first.
    Email sent. Thanks.

  94. #94
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    I ended up with a lever location very similar to the last two pic posts. I agree that lowering the lever further makes use in the drop and the bend much easier, but I still wanted to use the lever hoods too. I think this location is a good compromise.

    I wonder if I would be called crazy if I installed two sets of levers - one low for use in the drops, and another higher with the lever removed just for use as a hand location. Hunters might start confusing me for a trophy buck.

    Now I just need to get a shorter stem - I knew i'd have some reach problems on a medium frame, but being 5'11 I couldn't bring myself to order a small. I have very short arms. My 5'3 wife's arms are the same length as mine. I always need a shorter and higher reach than what is "standard".
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wood chipper-photo.jpg  


  95. #95
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    You might consider getting a riser stem so you can get rid of that stack o' spacers
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

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    Difficult to tell exactly from all the pics but it seems like the optimal position for the brakes if you want to make use of the hoods AND brake in the drops is to have the brake levers hang pretty much vertically (from the side).
    G-Ted seems to have his set roughly vertical going by his pics here

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    You might consider getting a riser stem so you can get rid of that stack o' spacers
    Yeah, yeah. Just using what I had on hand

  98. #98
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    initial comparo

    I've put a few miles on offroad drops over the last few years. WTB Mtn-roads, Midges, Garys, and now the Woodchipper.

    I have moved away from drops on my "real" mountain bikes. For me they don't cut it performance or comfort wise for technical terrain and long days (compared to risers and Ergons). However, they still have a place.

    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/OU-KvSQsTcH9HRgBEqDDyA?authkey=Gv1sRgCPHLvrud9oOOXg&f eat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_A06QdYL6xw8/S1yjiW9kzPI/AAAAAAAAHPQ/IgbccI8EIho/s800/IMG_2328.JPG" /></a>

    This is my commuter, lately reborn as a TransIowa rig. I reckon I have enough experience to say that the Woodchipper will do very by this bike. The crazy-long extensions are great, the bend places the hoods in exactly the right location, and the tops are wide enough to be useable. (These are 25.4 and 42cm, btw.)

    What's not to like? Good job Salsa.

  99. #99
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    Welp. I put them on my El Mar and am not a fan. 42's and just cant seem to ride in the drops all the time and they are not nice for me on the tops. Nice bars but just not for me. I would be better off on bell laps. To ebay they go. I'll be going back to a straight.
    MUD


    My weiner is 10.5".....Oh wait...I'm holding this ruler backward.

  100. #100
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    Anyone with 42's interested in trading for a 46? 31.8.

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    Do I have to buy a classified ad for a trade???

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