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  1. #51
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    Ugh. I sooooo want one of these.

  2. #52
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    Does everything look OK?

    Hi, Sorry to take up so much space. I wanted to post my LBS proposed build for my Fargo (within my budget) to see if anybody thought anything should be tweaked?

    1.) 2008 XT FC-M770 170mm 44,32,22 crnkst w/bb OE
    2.) 2008 XT M771-SGS Top normal Rear Der OE
    3.) XT M771 Trad Dual-pull Multi clamp Front Der
    4.) XT M770 9spd 11-34t Cassette OE
    5.) SRAM PC971 9spd chain Silver/Gray
    6.) Avid 09 BB7 Disc Brk Mtn Frt/Rear 160mm Rotor
    7.) Avid 09 BB7 Disc Brk Mtn Frt/Rear 160mm Rotor
    8.) Tektro RL520 Ergo Rd Brk Levers Blk for LP brakes
    9.) D/ACE SL-BS77 9SP Bar End Shifters
    10.) Ft700c Deore XT M756, 36h Velocity Blunt, Sil
    11.) Rr700c Deore XT M756 36h Velocity Blunt, Sil
    12.) Cane Creek S-8 1-1/8" Blk threadless headset
    13.) Cane Creek Thudbuster ST 27.2x450mm 33mm travel
    14.) Salsa Moto Ace Bell Lap 44cm 26.0 Anatomic BLK
    15.) Cinelli cork tape, blk, OE Pack
    16.) Salsa Thrdlss SUL 26.0 110mm 90d CroMoto Stem
    17.) Included Road brake cable set for DreamCycle
    18.) Included Road Deraillure cable set for DreamCycle
    19.) WTB Speed V ProGel Saddle Black Steel
    20.) WTB Vulpine 2.1 (50/52) 29" Race Tire
    21.) WTB Vulpine 2.1 (50/52) 29" Race Tire
    22.) Bike Build Shop Supplies
    23.) New Custom Reusable Bike
    24.) BikeBuilder Comp Level Assembly Labor
    25.) Jag Slick Stainless Der Wire 3100 mm Shimano Head
    26.) Jag Slick Stainless Brk Wire 2750mm Shimano Road
    27.) Salsa 09 Fargo Frameset, Medium (575tt)
    28.) Q 29" x 1.9-2.3" 32mm PV tube

    Also I wanted to thank G-Ted and GNAT for putting up with all my stupid e mail questions. You guys were very gracious. G-Ted I also wanted to comment on your recent blog concerning snow bike envy. I think everyone should have a snow bike, they are FUN 365 days a year no matter where you live.
    Last edited by Fat & Hairy; 12-16-2008 at 03:11 AM.

  3. #53
    Down South Yooper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat & Hairy
    Hi, Sorry to take up so much space. I wanted to post my LBS proposed build for my Fargo (within my budget) to see if anybody thought anything should be tweaked?

    1.) 2008 XT FC-M770 170mm 44,32,22 crnkst w/bb OE
    2.) 2008 XT M771-SGS Top normal Rear Der OE
    3.) XT M771 Trad Dual-pull Multi clamp Front Der
    4.) XT M770 9spd 11-34t Cassette OE
    5.) SRAM PC971 9spd chain Silver/Gray
    6.) Avid 09 BB7 Disc Brk Mtn Frt/Rear 160mm Rotor
    7.) Avid 09 BB7 Disc Brk Mtn Frt/Rear 160mm Rotor
    8.) Tektro RL520 Ergo Rd Brk Levers Blk for LP brakes
    9.) D/ACE SL-BS77 9SP Bar End Shifters
    10.) Ft700c Deore XT M756, 36h Velocity Blunt, Sil
    11.) Rr700c Deore XT M756 36h Velocity Blunt, Sil
    12.) Cane Creek S-8 1-1/8" Blk threadless headset
    13.) Cane Creek Thudbuster ST 27.2x450mm 33mm travel
    14.) Salsa Moto Ace Bell Lap 44cm 26.0 Anatomic BLK
    15.) Cinelli cork tape, blk, OE Pack
    16.) Salsa Thrdlss SUL 26.0 110mm 90d CroMoto Stem
    17.) Included Road brake cable set for DreamCycle
    18.) Included Road Deraillure cable set for DreamCycle
    19.) WTB Speed V ProGel Saddle Black Steel
    20.) WTB Vulpine 2.1 (50/52) 29" Race Tire
    21.) WTB Vulpine 2.1 (50/52) 29" Race Tire
    22.) Bike Build Shop Supplies
    23.) New Custom Reusable Bike
    24.) BikeBuilder Comp Level Assembly Labor
    25.) Jag Slick Stainless Der Wire 3100 mm Shimano Head
    26.) Jag Slick Stainless Brk Wire 2750mm Shimano Road
    27.) Salsa 09 Fargo Frameset, Medium (575tt)
    28.) Q 29" x 1.9-2.3" 32mm PV tube

    Also I wanted to thank G-Ted and GNAT for putting up with all my stupid e mail questions. You guys were very gracious. G-Ted I also wanted to comment on your recent blog concerning snow bike envy. I think everyone should have a snow bike, they are FUN 365 days a year no matter where you live.
    The only question I would ask is about the Rims and Bars you have selected. The velocity blunts used to (still have?) a reputation for being a little soft and possibly slightly undersized, leading to tire mounting problems and flexiness. I would look at the Salsa Semi or possibly a DT Swiss rim instead of the velocities personally.

    The bars are a personal choice, but they have a fairly deep drop which might require a pretty high stem and/or spacer setup to accomodate. A more flared choice like the Origin 8 or On*One Midge would be a little shallower drop, but you lose a nice, wide hood position, so there's a compromise there too.

    Your build as posted should make for a nice ride..

    My medium frameset just showed up yesterday and I'll be getting it together over the next couple of days. Mine will be more of a mish-mash build, 2x9, etc. Probably the origin 8 bars with STI, XTR rear, Coda 2x crankset, 29/42 rings and a DT Swiss wheelset. Still need a front derailleur and probably a new chain for the setup...

    Plum
    This post is in 3B, three beers and it looks good eh!

  4. #54
    Harmonius Wrench
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    1. List off what you use your Fargo for (e.g. Commuting, road touring, off road touring, technical singletrack riding, etc...)

    So far I have used mine for commuting, exploring urban areas, gravel rides, and single track rides. Bikepacking/touring is on the agenda for 2009.

    2. What percentage of your riding spent on each surface type (e.g. paved road vs. dirt road vs technical singletrack.)

    So far I would estimate it at one third off road, one third paved, and one third gravel/dirt road.

    3. What is your bar setup for the types of riding listed above? Specificallly:
    A. Which model bar you prefer. Midge Bar
    B. How high you have it setup compared with either a typcial road drop or MTB drop setup that you have previously used, or describe the height compared to the saddle for reference. I have the drop section at three inches below the nose of the saddle. I primarily use the drop section.
    C. Percentage of time spent in the drops vs. the hoods or tops with this setup. Again, a proper off road drop set up is one where you will use the drops at least 80% of the time. The rest of that is split up between the hoods and the top of the bar next to the stem.

    4. optional: what type of cargo system you use with this bike. front or rear rack, frame bag, etc... I will be using some sort of off the shelf cromoly rear rack and a custom designed steel front rack.

  5. #55
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat & Hairy
    ..................

    Also I wanted to thank G-Ted and GNAT for putting up with all my stupid e mail questions. You guys were very gracious. G-Ted I also wanted to comment on your recent blog concerning snow bike envy. I think everyone should have a snow bike, they are FUN 365 days a year no matter where you live.
    Hey! You are very welcome. No worries on the e-mails. I was glad I could help out.

    As for the fat bike, probably some day it will happen. They look like waaay too much fun to not give it a try at some point.

  6. #56
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    Hey GT & Gnat, are you guys going to ride your Fargo's at Dirty Kanza this year? It would be nice to see them.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    C. Percentage of time spent in the drops vs. the hoods or tops with this setup. Again, a proper off road drop set up is one where you will use the drops at least 80% of the time. The rest of that is split up between the hoods and the top of the bar next to the stem.
    [/I]
    Thanks for the feedback Ted. I'm familiar with a typical dirt drop setup. That is what has me so curious why most of the Fargo owners I've seen online so far have stuck with the Salsa Bell Lap bars. It looks like most folks are setting them up high enough for off road riding and I'm wondering how usable the hoods are for most folks in this position because it seems to me like the would be too high for a usable position.

    I guess I'm curious why people aren't either 1. lowering the bell laps for a more standard "cyclocross" position or 2. switching to dedicated dirt drops (WTB, on-one, etc...) with the bars so high.

    Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into the whole thing and people are just running what the bike shipped with at this point until we all figure it out.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by black cross
    Hey GT & Gnat, are you guys going to ride your Fargo's at Dirty Kanza this year? It would be nice to see them.
    I would dearly love to do just that. It all depends upon how fit I come out of the winter.

    Gnat has mentioned to me that this is on his radar, but I can't speak for him. I hope he gives it a whirl. I know he'd love it.

    I'll probably sign up regardless. If it all pans out, I would have to bring the Fargo.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATXSS
    Thanks for the feedback Ted. I'm familiar with a typical dirt drop setup. That is what has me so curious why most of the Fargo owners I've seen online so far have stuck with the Salsa Bell Lap bars. It looks like most folks are setting them up high enough for off road riding and I'm wondering how usable the hoods are for most folks in this position because it seems to me like the would be too high for a usable position.

    I guess I'm curious why people aren't either 1. lowering the bell laps for a more standard "cyclocross" position or 2. switching to dedicated dirt drops (WTB, on-one, etc...) with the bars so high.

    Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into the whole thing and people are just running what the bike shipped with at this point until we all figure it out.
    Well, at the risk of offending some folks, I think it is uncharted territory for many. Off road drop bar stuff is not a known quantity for many folks. (You should see all the searches on my blog for "offroad drop bar" or "mtb drop bars"!) Most folks don't have a clue where to start, so I suppose the Bell Lap looks as good as anything to them. Also, don't discount the fact that Salsa spec'ed it, and many will just see that as a validation of that bar without questioning it.

    As for the "hoods being too high" on the Bell Lap, that is an astute observation. It is "useable" as a position, but if the drops are up where you can use those for most off roading, the hoods on a Bell Lap make you feel like you are using "ape hangars". (Well, maybe not quite that dramatic!)

    There is a rumor afoot that says Salsa is taking care of this issue by developing a new bar for the Fargo.

    I rode the Bell Laps for a little bit off road and they were fine for that. Actually, I rather liked them. However; the drop was too deep and at the height I had them at, there was a stack-o-spacers on that fork that was a bit unsightly. If you have noticed, I switched out to a Midge Bar pretty soon after I got the Fargo. Much better! Got rid of about two inches worth of spacers with that change alone!

    Anyway, I hope that Salsa comes through with their own off road drop because I think there is much room for improvement in the breed!

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    There is a rumor afoot that says Salsa is taking care of this issue by developing a new bar for the Fargo.
    TED! Tell us everything you know! Nobody is more devoted to dirt drops than me. I must know all.

  11. #61
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    DK 200 in 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by black cross
    Hey GT & Gnat, are you guys going to ride your Fargo's at Dirty Kanza this year? It would be nice to see them.
    Well.....I do have DK on my radar for next year. This is on my list as a test to see if I think my engine tuning is on pace for something bigger. I will likely be riding my Fargo in "pack" mode.

    If the timing works out with my family & job, I will be coming down.

    Oh...And to ATSX's question, I ride mine everywhere and I use Bell Laps. My hoods are just above the seat level, I used a double wrap of tape. I don't like Midges and other funky bars because I like having a position to rest my hands on long rides. On funky bars, that position is essentially useless.

    Gnat
    Salsa Crew
    My website: Gnat Likes - Bicycles - Photography - Adventure - People
    Disclaimer: I work for Salsa Cycles

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plum
    The only question I would ask is about the Rims and Bars you have selected. The velocity blunts used to (still have?) a reputation for being a little soft and possibly slightly undersized, leading to tire mounting problems and flexiness. I would look at the Salsa Semi or possibly a DT Swiss rim instead of the velocities personally.


    Plum
    Are Semi's available now? Should I be considering Gordo's. I would also like to hear more about a possible Fargo specific drops. I am a master of indecision.
    Last edited by Fat & Hairy; 12-17-2008 at 04:03 AM.

  13. #63
    Bring back the Tour de GA
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    I would think that Nitto Randonneur bars would be a good choice for a Fargo.
    There's only two things in life (but I forget what they are). - John Hiatt

  14. #64
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    Semi's & Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat & Hairy
    Are Semi's available now? Should I be considering Gordo's. I would also like to hear more about a possible Fargo specific drops. I am a master of indecision.
    Yes, Semi's are available. As far as a rumored Salsa Fargo Specific Drop bar, I can assure you that I am riding Bell Laps. I also assure you if there was a Fargo specific bar I'd be riding it.

    Gnat
    Salsa Crew
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnatBikes
    ........ On funky bars, that position is essentially useless.

    Gnat
    Salsa Crew
    On this point I will have to be a voice of dissent. The hoods, and bar tops for that matter, are totally useable. I have several hand positions besides the drops that are great places to rest the hands during rides.

    And lets be honest here. How many hand positions do you guys with flat bars or risers use? One? Maybe two if you use bar ends? Yeah...................so all of this discussion of drop bars for off roading being limited in hand positions has to be taken with a huge grain o salt.

    The basic deal with drops for off roading is that the hands, wrists, and fore arms are aligned in a unique way in comparison to how we ride on flats and risers. This is the "why" of drop bars. If you get that, the rest starts to fall into place.

    The drop part of the bar is where the benefits begin. The extra hand positions are a bonus over flats and risers. Whether you choose to use them is entirely up to each individual and is determined somewhat by the initial set up of the drop bar.

    Specifically to Bell Laps: The drop section is a further distance away from the bar tops than it is on Midge's and Gary bars. The WTB bars are slightly less deep. Having a minimal differential between the drop section and the bar top is better for set up and use off road. It makes using all the available positions easier and more attractive. This is where I feel the Bell Lap has issues.

    If indeed Salsa Cycles is coming out with a Fargo compatible bar, I would expect that it would be like the Midge in as far as the drop to top measurement goes and that the drop extensions would accomodate more than one hand position. (ie: LONGER!) Also, a bit more sweep would be nice in the drop section, like the original WTB bars. Make 'em in different widths too. Nobody is doing that.

    Okay, that's part of my "laundry list" for a Salsa off road drop bar. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on a bar like this to materialize sooner than later.

  16. #66
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    Easy there soldier

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted

    And lets be honest here. How many hand positions do you guys with flat bars or risers use? One? Maybe two if you use bar ends?
    Exactly - That is why I'm not going to use a flat bar to ride hundreds of miles of Fargo Adventuring. My Fargo with Bell Lap works better for me. For me the Bell Laps have several positions that I personally find useless on the Midges. Glad you like and use the extra Midge positions 'cuz that is what matters.

    GT - Remember that you gave me a set of Midges that I in fact rode and liked when riding off road only. I thought they worked great for that. Beyond that, I found them only useful in one position for my Fargoing Adventures which is why I find them limiting and "useless" for me. Not saying they aren't a good product because they clearly are. Just not right for me and how I'm riding my Fargo.

    Jason
    Salsa Crew
    My website: Gnat Likes - Bicycles - Photography - Adventure - People
    Disclaimer: I work for Salsa Cycles

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnatBikes
    Exactly - That is why I'm not going to use a flat bar to ride hundreds of miles of Fargo Adventuring. My Fargo with Bell Lap works better for me. For me the Bell Laps have several positions that I personally find useless on the Midges. Glad you like and use the extra Midge positions 'cuz that is what matters.

    GT - Remember that you gave me a set of Midges that I in fact rode and liked when riding off road only. I thought they worked great for that. Beyond that, I found them only useful in one position for my Fargoing Adventures which is why I find them limiting and "useless" for me. Not saying they aren't a good product because they clearly are. Just not right for me and how I'm riding my Fargo.

    Jason
    Salsa Crew
    Yep! And thanks for getting those back to me, by the way!

    I understand what you meant, but the way you wrote it looked like a wholesale rejection of the Midge/Gary/WTB bars for anything other than one position in other readers eyes, to my thinking. So I threw my two cents in offa my soap box.

    I'm okay and the soap box has been put away or now..........

  18. #68
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    Regarding the back and forth on bar setup: I think what we've got going on is really 2 schools of thought on what this bike is for. This is why I was hoping people will chime in with their bar setup and qualify it with what they are using the bike for.

    You've got the touring/utilitarian crowd (Gnat) looking at a ton of paved or dirt road miles vs. technical singletrack miles. I'm guessing the Bell lap works well setup with the hoods and seat nearly level. Think: Occaisonally-off-road-capable Long Haul Trucker.

    And you've got the dirt drop MTB crowd (GoKartMozart, GTed) who see this as the closest thing to the first available production dirt drop mountain bike. The shortened top tubes and tall headtube is what make this bike appealing. These guys are logging a greater percentage of trail miles and obviously want a traditional dirt drop setup (Midge, much higher relative to the seat.) Think: Drop specific Karate Monkey.

    I'm thinking I'll be somewhere in between. Commuting, not touring but getting some singletrack trail time in during the commute. So I'm sort of split down the middle on what will be best. Easy enough to try both bar types and figure out what is best for me personally.


    ...at least until the Fargo specific Bargo comes out to end all arguments...so, when is the ship date on that?

    Sorry J. Just wanted to fan the flames a bit more on that one for my own enjoyment.

  19. #69
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    ATXSS: Uhhh......not so much on your analysis. I happen to know Gnat sees this as a single track machine, and does use it in that way quite a bit. (Not to say he doesn't think it couldn't be used everywhere, that's the whole point of the Fargo. )

    I also do a fair amount of commuting and gravel road riding on Midge and Gary bar equipped bikes and plan on doing the same on the Fargo. In fact, I just got back from an urban snow ride.

    You are going to see lots of people using this bike in lots of ways that we haven't even imagined yet. Bars? Pffft! Big deal. The point is to go for a long ride on the Fargo, on whatever terrain, and have fun doing it.

    I am anxious to see what some folks come up with here actually, and where they ride these rigs. I'm betting it will blow our collective minds. montclairbobbyb's bike is just the tip of that iceberg, methinks.

  20. #70
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    Like the fork drop out says

    Quote Originally Posted by ATXSS
    more pictures!
    Yeah!

    Gnat
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  21. #71
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    Well there you go. I'll step back from over analyzing on this thread now and simply ask for more pictures!

  22. #72
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  23. #73
    Harmonius Wrench
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    From today's snow ride. Bombed around the snow covered city streets at 7 degrees F. Tubeless Geax Saguaros are nice on snow, by the way.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  24. #74
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    All Rounder

    In my brain I like to think of this bike as the modern day (technologically) Bridgestone XO-1 or Rivendell All Rounder. Both bikes I have an affinity for.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #75
    Not really that big!
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    That is one sweet old school ride. Funny how the color so closely resembles that of the LaCruz. I wonder if the rider wished for some squish on that trail? Nevermind... I guess it's retro anyway.
    Just Ridin' Along

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