okay, this will be the new 09 so the steere tube (Reba SL) will still be in tact. It looked like the pics showed the bars below the saddle but I will take your word for it and also upgrade that Reba to the 100mm. Thanks again for the help!
Just take care not to cut too much of anything off of the steerer tube until you get your position dialed in for you. Or if one was using a tube already cut, Thomson and Salsa (among others) make some nice stems with plenty of rise when combined with spacers, riser bars etc... can get one way above the saddle.
I went for a pretty level (or close to level) bar/saddle position on my - I guess you'd call it "all mountain" trail bike - and trimmed just a bit off of the steerer tube of a 120mm Fox fork to get there. Since I used a flipped 5 degree stem and flat bar, it called for a bunch of spacers. And I have the option of flipping the stem up if I want to go above my saddle. I found I had to go to a longer stem 110mm over my usual 90-100mm to get the weight off the hands and feel right. I could have reached the same bar height position using less spacers and a stem with more rise, but I went with this configuration for now and seem to like it a lot.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/4194805109/" title="RiPPer2 by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2626/4194805109_204c875ab3_o.jpg" width="1171" height="670" alt="RiPPer2" /></a>
If you do get a Dos and are using an uncut '09 Reba, mess around with it set at 80mm first as the uncut steerer tube will be plenty long to get your bars above your saddle. Changing to 100mm will raise the front end a bit more which may - depending on how you ride - slacken things enough to alter the quick steering of the Dos just a bit. I haven't tried mine like that, but many Dos owners use 100mm front suspension and love it. So perhaps the steering change is not that big of a deal at all. But it is worth mentioning before you start cutting your steerer tube. Lots of these pictures in the two Dos threads have bikes with 100mm front suspension. I've been meaning to try it, but just haven't gotten around to that yet. I've got 2 Rebas set at 80mm and 1 at 100mm, so it wouldn't be hard to do.
okay, this will be the new 09 so the steere tube (Reba SL) will still be in tact. It looked like the pics showed the bars below the saddle but I will take your word for it and also upgrade that Reba to the 100mm. Thanks again for the help!
I have the 09 Dos with an 07 Reba set at 80mm. I typically run my bars and saddle level, and in order to do so I run my stem flipped "road bike style" with a flat bar.
The only 29er bikes that I know of that really tend to be more lower on the bars than the saddle are the Cannondales with the Lefty.
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
so 29er bike handlebars typically sit up higher than 26 inchers?
heres some numbers to crunch...
a Reba 29er (100mm) has an A-C height of 506mm, about the same as a 130mm 26er fork. In addition, the axle of a 29er is *roughly* 1.5" higher than a comparable 26" wheel/tire combo.
Thats why you see a lot of 29ers with really small headtubes, flipped stems and drop bars. Aside from the Cannondale Caffeines with Lefty forks, its actually a trick to get a 29ers bar height down to where most people like them on their 26" bikes.
To compensate for this in the back of the bike, you'll see a lot of manufacturers have their chainstays where they dip down so the BB height will be the same as their 26" brethren. *Most* 26" hardtail chainstays run somewhat parallel to the ground.
Myself, I just accept it for what it is, and don't worry about how it relates to a 26er. I want my bike to feel and ride like a 29er. None of this fancy offset/G2 geometry stuff for me! Then again, I've been on 29ers almost exclusively since 2002.
If it feels right, then to you!
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
Great explanation. So basically you can be in a more upright "comfortable on the lower back" postion on a 29er versus a 26er so long as you do not cut the head tube on the 29er?? Correct
I am just having to mail order this Salsa Dos and do ot want to get it home and feel like an un comfortable 26 inch XC racer.
In your profile, you listed a Fisher Rig 29er as your bike.
Up front, there isn't going to be that much difference compared to a Rig 29er. The biggest differences from the Rig is going to be the short ETT on the Salsa and the longer seat tube length.
Originally Posted by buddhak
And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.
Oophs, I am not sure how the rig 29er got in there. I am trying to see how much different the seating position is compared to the Rocky Mountain slayer SXC all mountain that I am riding. Thanks for the input...
I feel it's my responsibility to contribute to the bike porn in this thread. You don't see many soft tail 29ers here on the frozen tundra so pictures and feedback from fellow racers (esp. Bruce Brown and Matt Gersib) were a huge part of my decision to build up this XL Dos.
It is replacing a 26" Epic as my do-it-all bike for racing and riding the Canadian Rockies
The Reba is set to 100mm - coming from the Epic (which has a slacker head tube, longer wheelbase) I doubt the handling will feel slow.
Crankset is a Raceface Next LP with 29 and 42 tooth rings, shifted by a SRAM Rival derailleur.
I'm 6'4", the cockpit is pretty stretched out (120mm flipped stem) for now.
Weight is just over 25lbs. Once I size the right stem and post, and switch to tubeless racing tires it should go down to ~ 24.5 lbs.
Thanks Salsa for designing this light, efficient and sweet-looking frame !
Thanks for the friendly advice, I am planning to take advantage of it. With the sag I was running on the Reba maxle to get quicker steering, I was probably down to around 80mm of travel, so I decided to change the fork and stem.
It should be quite an interesting surprise, hopefully ready in time for XC season. I'll post pics when it's ready
Originally Posted by BruceBrown
You are a tad beyond the "tweener" spot [6'2" - 6'3"] that could probably make a size L work. You firmly land in the size XL category and that's usually where I go as well in spite of testing and trying to make a size L fit before.
I'm pretty much the same dimensions as you (long legs and arms, but a hair under 6'4" (I'm 191.5cm) and a hair under 36" inseam (35.75") using the bare foot on the floor to top of book in the crotch measurement) and comfortably ride the 2006 XL Dos with a 5 degree 90mm stem (sometimes I flip it down and sometimes not). But I ride and race it with my older generation Reba Race set at 80mm. I've yet to try my Reba at 100 on the Dos, but I like the quickness of the 80mm for XC racing. 180mm cranks.
Maybe your fork at 120mm, with your seat slid forward and perhaps too long of a stem compromises your turning/handling and is the underlying reason you are contemplating swapping frame sizes. I think for your size, dropping to the size L is going to end in a bad fit filled with band-aids. That's my opinion of course - totally based on being the same size as you. Okay, my feet are not size 15, but my son's are. ;-]
Why did you jump all the way from a 70mm stem to a 100mm stem? I guess if you had a 17 degree sweep handlebar you would be okay with 100 - 110mm stem, but I bet there is a sweet spot waiting for you in there around 90mm stem length. I've tried 85mm, 90, 100, 105, 110 all with various angles and a half dozen handlebars thanks to my parts bin and other bikes in the garage. That's all part of the natural tweaking phase one goes through as they get used to a bike and look for handling improvements.
I would not be so quick to trade out to a smaller frame size. All the plumbing (bars, stem, spacers, etc...) might get even more crazy with the smaller size L frame and lead to utter frustration. Heck, the Dos Niner - as well as the XL Karate Monkey - both have one of the shortest ETT's for the size XL's out there in 29"er land compared to other brands (ditto for the Dos and KM's wheelbase - short). My Sugar 293's ETT is 1/2 longer and my JET and RIP are also longer in XL than the Dos (both ETT and wheelbase). What does the ETT mean stem wise if you dropped down to the smaller sized L frame? 1/2" = 12.7mm so in addition to more seatpost, you'll need a longer stem and/or more layback on the seatpost. And more spacers, stem/bar rise to deal with the even shorter head tube length. I think you are on the correctly sized bike.....
My XL in 23.x lbs. with flipped 90mm stem and very little sweep bar race kit:
-
And here she is in flipped up 100mm stem and bar with more sweep formation:
-
Since your Dos is still pretty new to you, I'd say keep fiddling and tweaking the fit with proper stem length, saddle position and fork travel until you find your sweet spot. I'll be riding my 5th XC race season this year on the Dos and it took a season or two to dial in the sweet spot and really get comfortable on the bike. Even then, I still like to play with bar height, stem length, stem angle all the time just for the heck of it. I run narrow bars with very little bend in them for tight and twisty courses and sometimes run the Salsa 17 degree bend bar with longer stem for other courses and training. It all depends.
You can actually follow this thread discussion about it, no changes for 2010. The Racing Ralph 2.4 is one of the biggest out there. It'll fit and roll in the rear but it's not a viable setup for long, it'll buzz with frame and hub flex and anything but dry conditions will encourage mud clog quickly.
Kenda Nevegal 2.2s are big for their size and they do OK, but you're probably best off with a rear-specific smaller tire at 30psi and letting the shock do the damping. Racing Ralph 2.25s fit very well.
Originally Posted by wookieone
Just curious what the biggest tire anyone's run on a 2010 Dos? Thanks Jefe
The 2.3 max tire recommendation is dead on... the RR 2.4 is a full 2.4 so its not safe except in say, the repair stand. In actual riding it'll buzz the chainstays and remove paint, and probably tubing material eventually. A RR 2.25 works fine though. I ran a 2.4 in my Reba and 2.25 in the frame for 3 weeks and loved it, until I sidewall sliced the rear. I'm waiting on a RR 2.25 SS casing to replace it (was using the plain evo casing). Its winter here so I haven't needed the Dos since the fall. My Beasley's NeoMoto 2.3s give plenty of floatation and until this week we haven't had much in the way of deep snow accumulation to deal with. Hell even now its so mild out that the snow is melting down during the day and falling at night and making for super packed riding conditions.
Just curious what the biggest tire anyone's run on a 2010 Dos? Thanks Jefe
As others have noted, the big meats in terms of width (Ralph 2.4, Ardent 2.4, etc... ) are just too wide. You might, however, consider the Continental Racing King 2.2 which is a very tall volume (not so wide) tire that will give you excellent volume in the rear. It won't rub on the chainstays like the wider volume big meats. And you could run either a King up front or something with some more side biting knobs - depending on your riding style and local terrain needs.
I've ridden and raced the Ralph combo of a 2.4 up front and 2.25 in the rear quite a bit.
The Black Dos build is finally finished. Rode it today in the snow for a while. Weighs in at 22.42 with these tires and pedals. Should be right at 21.5 come race day with maxxis aspens and 4ti pedals.
This bike is the end result of a year of hard riding, learning through success and failure at racing and trying new trails all over. It's big, durable, fast, light, and nimble. Every part has been selected to suit me after said trial and failure with others.
Key components:
Cannondale Lefty Speed Carbon SL with Project 321 adapter
Surly Mr. Whirly 185mm crankset
2x8 Shimano Dura-Ace 7800 drivetrain (Sora pictured)
Front Tire: Specialized Captain Control 2Bliss 2.2, Stan's tubeless
Rear Tire: Schwalbe Racing Ralph Snakeskin 2.2, Stan's tubeless
carbon wherever possible except drivetrain
Thanks to Mendon Cyclesmith for the "swamp proof" fork rebuild and Bill at Dirt Road Bikes in Baton Rouge for the bling-out and the indestructible drivetrain!
Last edited by TunicaTrails; 03-14-2010 at 01:53 PM.
This bike is the end result of a year of hard riding, learning through success and failure at racing and trying new trails all over. It's big, durable, fast, light, and nimble. Every part has been selected to suit me after said trial and failure with others.
Key components:
Cannondale Lefty Speed Carbon SL with Project 321 adapter
Surly Mr. Whirly 185mm crankset
2x8 Shimano Dura-Ace 7800 drivetrain (Sora pictured)
Front Tire: Specialized Captain Control 2Bliss 2.2, Stan's tubeless
Rear Tire: Schwalbe Racing Ralph Snakeskin 2.2, Stan's tubeless
carbon wherever possible except drivetrain
Thanks to Mendon Cyclesmith for the "swamp proof" fork rebuild and Bill at Dirt Road Bikes in Baton Rouge for the bling-out and the indestructible drivetrain!
Awesome combination!!
I own a Cannondale Rush 5 Lefty now , and Im thinking in buy a dos-niner instead, but I really love the Lefty fork, this could be the best option
I've got/had serveral 29ers - GF Rig (sold) - Jones SS - Niner Air9 with carbon forks & GF Rumblefish. The bike I don't have is a short travel non technical all day geared comfortable XC 29er.
Now I've got the chance of a "new" orange Meduim frame over here in the UK, but I have several questions after reading back on this great thread.
1) I'm 5'8" with a 31" inside leg will the Medium be too large for me?
2) I like climbing out of the saddle SS style but hate suspension pedal bob, do you get it on the Dos?
3) For what I want to ride which are the best forks either 80mm or 100mm and which make?
1. I'm 5'8" with a 31" inside leg will the Medium be too large for me?
I am about the same size and inseam and I ride a Small. Not sure but I think the Dos 9ers run a bit large. The small seems to fit me & has me in a good non-stretched out position with good standover,
2 I like climbing out of the saddle SS style but hate suspension pedal bob, do you get it on the Dos?
Very little bob on the softail set up. You can hammer up hills and it rides like a hardtail. If you notice any bob, you can add 10psi to the rear shock in increments and that will stiffen everything up.
3) For what I want to ride which are the best forks either 80mm or 100mm and which make?
It's designed for a 80, but there are quite a few people who run 100mm. I am running a 100mm Reba XX and it's insane. You get a push button lock out that will really make the bike feel like a rigid hardtail for those unseated climbs. Dos is a great bike -- I have a 1x9 Dos as well as a SS Dos and I just pulled the trigger on a LaCruz
1) I'm 5'8" with a 31" inside leg will the Medium be too large for me?
2) I like climbing out of the saddle SS style but hate suspension pedal bob, do you get it on the Dos?
3) For what I want to ride which are the best forks either 80mm or 100mm and which make?
1. Med should be fine
2. "Bob" is more of a fork issue. The Dos has little or none in the rear.
3. I have used both 80 and 100 mm (changed the 80 to a 100). I much prefer the 100 based upon more pedal clearance and better geometry for descending. (I'd rather climb than descend but don't like the feeling that going OTB is imminent when descending). However for mostly non-technical riding, 80 is fine.
After drooling over this thread for over two weeks and searching for deals I pulled the trigger on a brand new Dos with the stock XT kit. I was considering a build to get it into the 23-24lb realm like many have here, but for the price of this bike brand new you just can't beat the stock build. The only thing I am thinking about doing right away is getting the Stans Arch wheels with Hope Pro II hubs.
I feel that the Dos Niner corners and turns switchbacks noticeably better with an 80mm fork. Longer travel gives better confidence on descents so there's a tradeoff. I feel my skills have improved but I needed the quicker steering. I run long cranks and don't have a problem with pedal strikes.
Originally Posted by Johnclimber
I've got/had serveral 29ers - GF Rig (sold) - Jones SS - Niner Air9 with carbon forks & GF Rumblefish. The bike I don't have is a short travel non technical all day geared comfortable XC 29er.
Now I've got the chance of a "new" orange Meduim frame over here in the UK, but I have several questions after reading back on this great thread.
1) I'm 5'8" with a 31" inside leg will the Medium be too large for me?
2) I like climbing out of the saddle SS style but hate suspension pedal bob, do you get it on the Dos?
3) For what I want to ride which are the best forks either 80mm or 100mm and which make?
Read through the entire thread. Either going to go with the Kenda Nevegal 2.2 or the Racing Ralphs 2.2 I plan on using these with a set of Stans Arch Rims and yellow tape.
Should I look for UST specific or the regular ones will do? With RRs, the UST ones cost more and are not available in the Snake Skin version. http://www.schwalbetires.com/racing_ralph
Also I don't have an air compressor. Am I SOL or have you guys had good luck getting the bead seated with a regular pump?
Kenda Nevegals and Schwalbe Racing Ralphs are very different tires. Nevegal: heavy all-mountain tire, inexpensive, slow but superb grip. Racing Ralph: expensive, light, low rolling resistance yet good grip, paper-thin (in non-Snakeskin version 2.25)
A Nevegal 29x2.2 is going to rub in the back and damage your frame. It's a good choice for a front tire but I prefer the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 or the Specialized Captain Control 2Bliss 2.2 in front.
I have cut two Racing Ralph 29x2.25's in the rear, I don't recommend them run tubeless; they're a mess. Instead buy the Racing Ralph 29x2.25 Snakeskin; they seal up very well.
Originally Posted by vtsteevo
Read through the entire thread. Either going to go with the Kenda Nevegal 2.2 or the Racing Ralphs 2.2 I plan on using these with a set of Stans Arch Rims and yellow tape.
Should I look for UST specific or the regular ones will do? With RRs, the UST ones cost more and are not available in the Snake Skin version. http://www.schwalbetires.com/racing_ralph
Also I don't have an air compressor. Am I SOL or have you guys had good luck getting the bead seated with a regular pump?
A Nevegal 29x2.2 is going to rub in the back and damage your frame. It's a good choice for a front tire but I prefer the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 or the Specialized Captain Control 2Bliss 2.2 in front.
Thanks man.
Will the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 rub in the back? Also any thoughts about the stockers that come with the Dos, WTB Prowler SL 2.1?
The Ardent 2.4 is definitely too big for the rear; stay with 2.2s or smaller in the rear. The Kenda Nevegal's side blocks make it a very wide 2.2, but most others should work fine.
The WTB Prowlers look like a solid tire for front or back but I haven't ridden them before.
Originally Posted by vtsteevo
Thanks man.
Will the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 rub in the back? Also any thoughts about the stockers that come with the Dos, WTB Prowler SL 2.1?
Read through the entire thread. Either going to go with the Kenda Nevegal 2.2 or the Racing Ralphs 2.2 I plan on using these with a set of Stans Arch Rims and yellow tape.
Should I look for UST specific or the regular ones will do? With RRs, the UST ones cost more and are not available in the Snake Skin version. http://www.schwalbetires.com/racing_ralph
Also I don't have an air compressor. Am I SOL or have you guys had good luck getting the bead seated with a regular pump?
-Steve
Pick up one of those 3 Gallon tank Sears Craftsman air compressors to have in the garage. Sometimes they go on sale and drop from $139 down to $89. Worth having as it removes a lot of frustration when inflating tubeless tires and you can keep your car tires topped off while you're at it year round.
We've all been there and done it with a pump. My advice - get a compressor!
What's your local terrain in terms of dirt? Sandy and loose is what the Prowler does well. If you're not sandy and loose (I knew one of those in college), then swap out the rear Prowler for something else.
Pick up one of those 3 Gallon tank Sears Craftsman air compressors to have in the garage. Sometimes they go on sale and drop from $139 down to $89. Worth having as it removes a lot of frustration when inflating tubeless tires and you can keep your car tires topped off while you're at it year round.
We've all been there and done it with a pump. My advice - get a compressor!
What's your local terrain in terms of dirt? Sandy and loose is what the Prowler does well. If you're not sandy and loose (I knew one of those in college), then swap out the rear Prowler for something else.
BB
I agree. I would have an air compressor for sure. You don't always need one, I just put a pair of Kenda Karma 1.9s on some ZTR 355 29'er rims and was able to pump them up with a floor pump no problem, with only one layer of yellow sealing tape. But I have also had to use a compressor on other brands/models of tire. Just depends on what you end up with for tires. A compressor will keep you from beating you head against the wall when your trying to get the tires mounted up...
What's your local terrain in terms of dirt? Sandy and loose is what the Prowler does well. If you're not sandy and loose (I knew one of those in college), then swap out the rear Prowler for something else.
BB
Bazinga!
I am in Charlotte/NC so we usually have dry summers, but wet fall/spring. Since these come stock and don't look that bad on paper I will probably keep them but swap out one tire depending on time of year.
The wife does want to put up some molding around the house... perfect excuse to get the air compressor.
I just rode mine this weekend in Fruita, good stuff indeed, was super fun and very easy to get to know, the bike just works and well, very happy. I do have a question, seems some folks are running these as singlespeeds, just curious what their setups are? using an old rear derailler for tension? thanks for the info, Jefe
I run my SS DOS in the magic gear of 32 x 21 NO TENSIONER!
The gearing is a little bit spinny for the flats and while sometime I would prefer 32 x 19 or 32x20, I am pretty happy when riding a flowing, hilly course.
If you're going to run a tensioner, there are a lot of good ones out there. I would probably go with the Soulcraft because it has a quick release in case you have to change a flat on the fly.
Originally Posted by wookieone
I just rode mine this weekend in Fruita, good stuff indeed, was super fun and very easy to get to know, the bike just works and well, very happy. I do have a question, seems some folks are running these as singlespeeds, just curious what their setups are? using an old rear derailler for tension? thanks for the info, Jefe
I was also curious if the chain tension changed much as the rear compressed, it is only
1" of movement, but that would be the best chance for the chain to fall off, seems chains stretch a lot on my SS, seems the perfect gear wouldn't last long???
The chainstay length is static because the DOS softtail setup pivots around the BB. A few other bikes like the Kona A & Lenz Milkmoney achieve this as well.
Never a chain drop - I use a KMC heavy duty chain. I think it's a 410H? It's pretty heavy but it has not strectched in over a year of hardcore ss riding.
I run a Deda Dog fang and MRP XTC bottom bracket mounted bash guard. The SS DOS set up is pretty sweet because it basically hammers like a hardtail on climbs and gives you that 1" of cushion for the bumps.
Originally Posted by wookieone
I was also curious if the chain tension changed much as the rear compressed, it is only
1" of movement, but that would be the best chance for the chain to fall off, seems chains stretch a lot on my SS, seems the perfect gear wouldn't last long???
Hi, I'm building a Dos Niner next week (when all parts arrive from the online stores), and I'm a bit worried about the Relish shox vs Mud.
I live in the north of Spain (Asturias) and we have mud all year long, and I haven't seen here or in other forums and blogs a good solution to avoid the shox getting dirty.
By all accounts the Relish is one of the most trouble-free shocks. I live in Louisiana and we have mud a-plenty, especially with the El Nino weather conditions through last year. It's been covered in mud countless times, but it's one thing I don't have to worry about.
Texas and Arkansas rocks, on the other hand... the scandium is very thin and will dent easily, but so am I, and so will I
Originally Posted by Bertocq
Hi, I'm building a Dos Niner next week (when all parts arrive from the online stores), and I'm a bit worried about the Relish shox vs Mud.
I live in the north of Spain (Asturias) and we have mud all year long, and I haven't seen here or in other forums and blogs a good solution to avoid the shox getting dirty.
You can actually follow this thread discussion about it, no changes for 2010. The Racing Ralph 2.4 is one of the biggest out there. It'll fit and roll in the rear but it's not a viable setup for long, it'll buzz with frame and hub flex and anything but dry conditions will encourage mud clog quickly.
Kenda Nevegal 2.2s are big for their size and they do OK, but you're probably best off with a rear-specific smaller tire at 30psi and letting the shock do the damping. Racing Ralph 2.25s fit very well.
as a "ahem" heavy boned rider... I've taken a real liking to the WTB Weirwolf LT in 2.55 on my El Mariachi.
Any chance it would fit in a Dos? The tyre is very "rounded" which makes me think it just might...
From what I've read, the Weirwolf runs a little narrow and is probably a true 2.3. Probably a tight squeeze; you'll want your rims true and not too much mud. If it were me I'd go easy on myself with a 2.2 or 2.1 in the rear.
Originally Posted by Elvis @ Dirt Works
as a "ahem" heavy boned rider... I've taken a real liking to the WTB Weirwolf LT in 2.55 on my El Mariachi.
Any chance it would fit in a Dos? The tyre is very "rounded" which makes me think it just might...
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