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  1. #51
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    I can report that a Kenda Nevegal 2.2 fits just fine with no rub. My new rear hub died recently and is being warrantied for new pawls (beware American Classic?). So I've got the rear wheel of my piggish backup wheelset on now.

    It had been reported that the tread width of a 2.2 Nevegal was nearly that of a Racing Ralph 2.4. It appears to me to be noticeably smaller, and of course the casing is smaller..

    No real downside to shaving the 2.4s, if you love big casing volume, other than the hassle.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    I mounted a RR 2.25, which is really actually a 2.15" tread width and 2.1 in casing. Again it solved the problems without needing to degrade the edge knobs of a perfectly good tire, which is going back onto my GT Peace (which is now a loaner bike). The RR 2.25 was harder to seat tubeless though, had to use my compressor instead of the floor pump as with the 2.4. If I'd known ahead of time though that the Evo casing 2.25 was skinnier than claimed, I might have shaved the knobs anyway. I hate giving up casing volume.
    Last edited by TunicaTrails; 08-27-2009 at 12:55 PM.

  2. #52
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    I'm looking to join you fellas cuz you're havin way too much fun...

    I've been doing all my racing on my all mountain Titus Switchblade Talus, which has to be around 28 lbs, so I'm looking forward to seeing what this baby will do in a 12 hour race!

    I'll post up some pics when I find the frame...RC
    09 Salsa Mamasita
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    Stone's Arrogant Bastard on tap

  3. #53
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    Decisions, decision?

    Ok guys, the more I read/study, the more I like the Dos Niner........
    I should have enough parts lying around to build up the Salsa (sans 80mm fork), but I've got a rigid salsa cromoto 29er fork that needs to be put to good use. Do I get the Dos Niner and build up (temporarily) with the rigid (most likely as a SS) until I can convince/bribe the CFO of the house of a 80mm fork (suggestions?) at a later date,or would I be better off with the Mariachi? Any advice would be humbly appreciated

  4. #54
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    What's amusing to me is that the 2007 DosNiner frame was listed as having clearance for 2.5" wide tires. I wonder if they re-did the chainstays on the frame in the last couple model years and took away tire clearance in the process.
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  5. #55
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    While I agree with you that the buoyancy of Racing Ralph 2.4s mates very well with this frame, I can't find any evidence that Salsa spec'ed tires that wide on this bike. All I've ever seen officially is 2.3", although plenty of online stores get it incorrect. I remember reading that, especially in the smaller sizes, the first-edition Dos Niners didn't really even support 2.3s

    2007: http://www.salsacycles.com/dosniner.html
    2008: http://www.salsacycles.com/archive/dosniner08.html
    2009: http://www.salsacycles.com/dosniner09.html

    Most 2.5s tend towards All-Mountain with a beefy tread, which is probably beyond what most riders would want this bike for. It might be Big Mama time for you

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    What's amusing to me is that the 2007 DosNiner frame was listed as having clearance for 2.5" wide tires. I wonder if they re-did the chainstays on the frame in the last couple model years and took away tire clearance in the process.

  6. #56
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    Has anyone tried the Dos as a Single speed????

    I want to make the jump from 26 to 29er mostly due to my height/inseam and ill fitted bikes. Currently I'm enjoying the less maintenance of riding SS but with my 26er I use a Thudbuster. Would a 29er dos SS be comparable to running the Thudbuster on a 26er hardtail?

  7. #57
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    Unless they based it off the WTB 2.55s which are really 2.3s.
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  8. #58
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    I know a SS rigid rider who's got a Dos Niner, although he doesn't ride it often. I used a Rock Shox suspension post years ago. I can only make a comparison to that product, and my feeling was that a suspension seatpost bobs with every pedal stroke. A Dos Niner softtail doesn't do that noticably if you've got the right pressure set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorMade
    I want to make the jump from 26 to 29er mostly due to my height/inseam and ill fitted bikes. Currently I'm enjoying the less maintenance of riding SS but with my 26er I use a Thudbuster. Would a 29er dos SS be comparable to running the Thudbuster on a 26er hardtail?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    What's amusing to me is that the 2007 DosNiner frame was listed as having clearance for 2.5" wide tires. I wonder if they re-did the chainstays on the frame in the last couple model years and took away tire clearance in the process.
    That seems to be an incorrect clearance..... The earlier models (light green) had tire clearance for maybe around a 2.1, and subsequent models were improved to get better tire clearance. The current silver one we rate as having clearance for up to a 2.3.

    Ride and Smile,
    Tim, Salsa Cycles
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  10. #60
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    hey, i'm quoting your former canadian distributor who's going off the literature Salsa provided him at the time. I just got a pair of 2007 Las Cruces framesets brand new for $880USD w/shipping. I almost got the last DosNiner he had listed but for the fact none of your 16" 29ers actually have much in the way of standover room for people who actually need 16" frames.

    This is what he's listing as specs...

    Dos Niner Orange

    ∑ Disc and canti compatible.

    ∑ Salsa scandium size-specific, custom drawn tubeset with Salsa Relish Air rear shock

    ∑ ISO 51mm disc mounts

    ∑ Fits up to a 29 x 2.5" tire

    ∑ Seatpost clamp: 30.6mm (Salsa Flip-Lock included)

    ∑ Frame weight: 4.1 lbs. 18" with Relish Air shock


    Geometry sheet available upon request.
    Color: Orange
    Seatpost Diameter: 27.2 mm
    Headset Type: 1-1/8" Standard Cups
    Fork Travel: 75 - 85 mm
    Front Derailleur Style: Traditional/Topswing
    Front Derailleur Cable Pull: Bottom
    Front Derailleur Clamp: 35.0mm (1-3/8")
    Mount Type: BB Cup Mount
    BB Thread Type: English
    BB Shell Width: 68 mm
    Disc Mount Type: 51mm I.S. Rear
    Brake Type: Disc/Linear Pull - Canti
    Brake Usage F/R: Rear
    Material: Scandium
    Wheel Mount Center Offset: 0 mm
    Rear Axle Type: 10x1
    Rear Hub Spacing: 135 mm
    Wheel Size: 700c
    Weight: 1,859.0 g
    Last edited by DeeEight; 08-31-2009 at 10:49 AM.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Dos Niner Orange

    ∑ Disc and canti compatible.

    ∑ Salsa scandium size-specific, custom drawn tubeset with Salsa Relish Air rear shock

    ∑ ISO 51mm disc mounts

    ∑ Fits up to a 29 x 2.5" tire

    ∑ Seatpost clamp: 30.6mm (Salsa Flip-Lock included)

    ∑ Frame weight: 4.1 lbs. 18" with Relish Air shock
    Ah, yes, definetely an error in some communication, as the orange frame never had V brake mounts either. Like you said before, maybe the 2.5 they were thinking was the WeirWolf LT........

    Ride and Smile,
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  12. #62
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    Yeah I measured a set of those weirwolfs on a el-m, they weren't even 2.4s mounted on the delgardo rims. The Continental Mountain King 2.4 is however 2.4 at the tread, and 2.1 in casing, mounted on ZTR Arch's. Shop I got my dos thru is building up an 18" dos as a 'rental / demo' bike and was originally planning the 2.4 tire for the rear till i pointed out the lack of paint on my chainstay issue (I switched to the RR 2.25 before it polished/grooved the stays).
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  13. #63
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    One comment after a ride lastnight with a LOT of pedal whacks... the BB height needs to be higher... the selma is 3mm higher and it doesn't lower its BB as the rear end travels upwards 1"...
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  14. #64
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    Thanks Dos Fans!

    Thanks for all the good words and pictures Dos Niner fans!!! It has been one of our iconic models for our brand.

    Tell me, what is it that attracted you to the Dos? The nice light weight? The simplicity? Or its stunning good looks?

    Tell me your story, I am interested to hear from you.

    Ride and Smile,
    Tim, Bike and Frame Product Manager, Salsa Cycles
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    Tires for real rides: www.terrenetires.com

  15. #65
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    New saddle, I liked the ideas of matching white from the previous posters. Also new 100mm carbon stem. 70mm was what I had initially and felt very confident on some super steep descents, but I couldn't weight the front wheel enough to rail corners. Also switched to 2x8 with a 36t ring.

    Although it's twice the weight, the Selle Italia XO Trans Am Ltd Edition is much better for all day rides than the SLR. I hope to move into endurance racing next year.



    To answer chequamagon, this is my first 29er. I was set to buy a full-suspension bike but I made a last-minute decision that the weight was too much with the current crop. I couldn't bring myself to go hardtail since I tend to get a sore back. The Dos Niner is extremely lightweight for a 29er with rear suspension and I'm just loving it. A 2" model would completely rock but the simplicity of the pivotless all-scandium design would be hard to forgo.

    As mentioned above I ride 185mm cranks and BB height might help a bit with pedal strikes but I can recall only one trail where that was a problem. It had whoopy ups with lips on them due to red clay erosion. If I didn't get enough momentum I'd have to crank it at the top and sometimes dab a crank. Not really a big deal and I'd rather have the low center of gravity the rest of the ride.

    I love the "all tatted up" look of the Dos Niner graphics; silver is a little more mature than the hot orange, although it is exciting-looking. I understand that scandium has paint flaking problems which is why the current color was chosen?
    Last edited by TunicaTrails; 09-09-2009 at 06:41 PM.

  16. #66
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    I'm sitting here, thinking about how I'm going to build my Dos up over the winter. For some reason, it's begging to be set up for gravel grinders w drop bars and a 2x9. Guess I'm sick in that way...

  17. #67
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    Wow, I have to admit the silver and white color combos are making me want a Dos really bad.

    I was hoping someone could give me some thoughts on what size frmae and what travel fork - I am 6'4 with a 37 in-seam and would use the bike as an XC race bike.

    I am thinking the XL frame size and an 80 mm reba team? I like the idea of having a 25 inch top tube so the XL seems ideal.

    Also, for the taller riders (you will understand this question better) I have yet to find a bike that I do not feel like I am sitting on top of - I am looking for a bike that will feel like I am actually sitting inside the cockpit. If this makes sense do taller Dos riders feel that you are actually inside the cockpit instead of perched high atop it?

    How does the bike handle and how does the center of gravity feel?

  18. #68
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    Well last night's ride, same trail where I discovered the lack of BB height... three of us on 29ers (niner air-9, niner jet-9, my dos niner) and the fourth on 26" fully, and everyone on 29 inch wheels smacked pedals, so maybe its not simply the dos with the low BB height. It seems to be a problem common to the genre. Designers over-lowering the BB heights to make up for the taller wheels. The guy who had a 26er has said he's experienced the same problem on that trail riding his partner's Karate Monkey.
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  19. #69
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    You and I must be the same size. I ride an XL. There is plenty of space between my knees and the handlebar in that size. The bike feels very stable to me. If you have the chance you could try a size L if you like it flickable, but the XL feels very good, very much in control.

    I'm a little sluggish in tight turns with the big bike frame and 100mm fork, but on low speed technical stuff, my balance is much better on the big bike, so dabs are much less frequent.

    I don't know if this will be your first 29er or not, but if you're riding 26" currently, a 29er is a must-have for tall guys. The feeling of teetering above the wheels is greatly, greatly reduced.

    If a Dos won't be your first 29er, I don't know what to tell you other than I understand. Regardless of the bike, the optimum saddle height will be the same. I'm just working really hard to rail corners better but the lil' problem with endos I had on my 26" FS bike is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by XC23
    Wow, I have to admit the silver and white color combos are making me want a Dos really bad.

    I was hoping someone could give me some thoughts on what size frmae and what travel fork - I am 6'4 with a 37 in-seam and would use the bike as an XC race bike.

    I am thinking the XL frame size and an 80 mm reba team? I like the idea of having a 25 inch top tube so the XL seems ideal.

    Also, for the taller riders (you will understand this question better) I have yet to find a bike that I do not feel like I am sitting on top of - I am looking for a bike that will feel like I am actually sitting inside the cockpit. If this makes sense do taller Dos riders feel that you are actually inside the cockpit instead of perched high atop it?

    How does the bike handle and how does the center of gravity feel?

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    You and I must be the same size. I ride an XL. There is plenty of space between my knees and the handlebar in that size. The bike feels very stable to me. If you have the chance you could try a size L if you like it flickable, but the XL feels very good, very much in control.

    I'm a little sluggish in tight turns with the big bike frame and 100mm fork, but on low speed technical stuff, my balance is much better on the big bike, so dabs are much less frequent.

    I don't know if this will be your first 29er or not, but if you're riding 26" currently, a 29er is a must-have for tall guys. The feeling of teetering above the wheels is greatly, greatly reduced.

    If a Dos won't be your first 29er, I don't know what to tell you other than I understand. Regardless of the bike, the optimum saddle height will be the same. I'm just working really hard to rail corners better but the lil' problem with endos I had on my 26" FS bike is gone
    THis will be my first 29er - I currently ride 26 FS which I enjoy. BUt I have always felt that I am to big for all of my bikes and that I am teetering on top as opposed to sitting in the bike. I am looking at a three 29ers currently including the Dos Niner, the Niner Air9 and the Cannondale Flash 29er 1 Alloy. I kind of like the idea of just getting a frame and building my own bike.

    How noticeable is the softtail on the Dos Niner - I am concerned about going back to a hardtail and think that a softtail might really take the edge off. BUT at the same time I want the pedaling efficienct of a hardtail and am concerned that the Dos might bob a little.

  21. #71
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    I've yet to notice it without actually looking at the shock. Course it was trial and error to hit the pressure setting right. I wish my shock pump's gauge was digital but best guess is 31psi.
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  22. #72
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    The Dos Niner's Relish combined with the bigger wheels gives it a "virtual travel" feeling of a 3" 26er. The progressive feeling of the scandium stays is very healthy; bottoming out is something you don't feel. Bob is easily alleviated with the right pressure settings; I'm at about 20psi now and I weigh 180lbs; that's on the plush side.

    If I were getting the Flash 29er I'd go for carbon but that's just me. Don't forget to get you some light wheels, something in the <1800 gram range, preferably running tubeless. It'll make a big difference in how the new bike treats you.


    Quote Originally Posted by XC23
    THis will be my first 29er - I currently ride 26 FS which I enjoy. BUt I have always felt that I am to big for all of my bikes and that I am teetering on top as opposed to sitting in the bike. I am looking at a three 29ers currently including the Dos Niner, the Niner Air9 and the Cannondale Flash 29er 1 Alloy. I kind of like the idea of just getting a frame and building my own bike.

    How noticeable is the softtail on the Dos Niner - I am concerned about going back to a hardtail and think that a softtail might really take the edge off. BUT at the same time I want the pedaling efficienct of a hardtail and am concerned that the Dos might bob a little.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Well last night's ride, same trail where I discovered the lack of BB height... three of us on 29ers (niner air-9, niner jet-9, my dos niner) and the fourth on 26" fully, and everyone on 29 inch wheels smacked pedals, so maybe its not simply the dos with the low BB height. It seems to be a problem common to the genre. Designers over-lowering the BB heights to make up for the taller wheels. The guy who had a 26er has said he's experienced the same problem on that trail riding his partner's Karate Monkey.
    I had that problem with my Dos Niner until I reworked my fork to 100mm. I'll never go back. I don't know why 80mm is spec'ed. Handling and clearance both seem better with 100mm.

    DR

  24. #74
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    I'm already running my fork at 100mm though and its pedal strike prone. Another 20mm of fork travel only lifts the BB about 5mm higher.
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  25. #75
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    My road/cross bike is in the shop, so I just rode my Dos Niner on a 78 mile road ride!

    The pace wasn't killer, about 17mph but through the hills. I pumped up the tubeless tires to 50psi and locked out the front and rear. The big 2.4s performed as well as could be expected.

  26. #76
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    wow...that's exactly how I felt on my old mtn bike

    You said "I have yet to find a bike that I do not feel like I am sitting on top of - I am looking for a bike that will feel like I am actually sitting inside the cockpit. If this makes sense do taller Dos riders feel that you are actually inside the cockpit instead of perched high atop it? "

    This is almost word for word as to what I told my buddy after getting my dos niner two weeks ago.

    I'm 6'3" with long longs and arms...I've always ridden 26" Large size steel hardtails...that have never fit right. Picture a 400mm seat post nearly maxed out.

    Anyway I went with an XL with a 100mm stem and I'm so glad that I did. I've never, never even close felt so balanced and comfortable...especially when descending...I'm thrilled!

    ~matt

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    wow...that's exactly how I felt on my old mtn bike

    You said "I have yet to find a bike that I do not feel like I am sitting on top of - I am looking for a bike that will feel like I am actually sitting inside the cockpit. If this makes sense do taller Dos riders feel that you are actually inside the cockpit instead of perched high atop it? "

    This is almost word for word as to what I told my buddy after getting my dos niner two weeks ago.

    I'm 6'3" with long longs and arms...I've always ridden 26" Large size steel hardtails...that have never fit right. Picture a 400mm seat post nearly maxed out.

    Anyway I went with an XL with a 100mm stem and I'm so glad that I did. I've never, never even close felt so balanced and comfortable...especially when descending...I'm thrilled!

    ~matt

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by cackalacky
    Nice bike! Do you have that reba set at 80mm? I think mine is at 100mm but not completely sure as I bought it used. Don't sell it, you'll regret it later!
    Thanks! Sorry for not checking back sooner. The fork is set at 80mm. Seems to be plenty for me but I'd like to try something with 100mm at some point.

    I may regret selling it but have to make room in the stable for something new. Look for it on Ebay or here on the classifieds soon. Will likely part it out.

    Cheers!

  29. #79
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    What I like about my Dos...

    Tim, I have several things that attracted me to and what I continue to like about my Dos Niner:
    • Lightweight
    • Soft-tail design would take the edge off the rough stuff
    • Good looks


    It definitely met my expectations above! Here is what I continue to like about it:

    • Fast bike
    • Doesn't bob, even when out of the saddle
    • Makes longer rides more comfortable
    • Geometry fits me great
    • Simplicity of a hardtail but with some of the benefits of full suspension

  30. #80
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    my dos in 2007

    Dos Niner Fan Club-picture_110.jpg

  31. #81
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    just finished my new salsa dos niner build. actually only the grips are new, i got a used '08 frame because of the nice color and build it up with existing components. i liked the build and ended up putting nicer and nicer components ...

    this will be my back up trail bike, therefore TA and just 1x9 gearing. weighs about 23lbs, so it may see some endurance racing as well.

    and it will make my waiting for the tang air9 carbon lots easier
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dos Niner Fan Club-salsa-2.jpg  

    Dos Niner Fan Club-salsa-1.jpg  

    Dos Niner Fan Club-salsa-3.jpg  

    Dos Niner Fan Club-salsa-4.jpg  


  32. #82
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    In here is mine...in French


    ://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7772/p1020376d.jpg

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    Here's my 2009 Dos with a mix of XTR/XT parts. Weighs a smidge over 24 lbs right now.

    I'm still playing with air pressure. I weigh ~165 and I currently have about 15psi in the shock. How far down should the o-ring go at full travel?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dos Niner Fan Club-dos_niner_01.jpg  

    Dos Niner Fan Club-dos_niner_02.jpg  


  34. #84
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    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/zenbiking/4143356035/" title="Salsa Dos Niner frame by S.Fuller, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2658/4143356035_82fd3332d4.jpg" width="500" height="363" alt="Salsa Dos Niner frame" /></a>

    All I've got right now is a really nice piece of art for my desk in the basement. Not sure if I'll build it up to match my La Cruz in color scheme, or do something different. Looking forward to actually riding it come spring.

  35. #85
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    My Dos Niner has been a real winner for me this year.

    Hey can someone give me the clamp size for the front derailleur? Looking at a roadie model for my 2 chainrings, for less mud grabbing and lighter weight than XT.

  36. #86
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    35mm
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  37. #87
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    I'm lazy for not finding out myself, but 34.9mm it is. I'd bet that 35mm would work just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    My Dos Niner has been a real winner for me this year.

    Hey can someone give me the clamp size for the front derailleur? Looking at a roadie model for my 2 chainrings, for less mud grabbing and lighter weight than XT.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubjay
    Here's my 2009 Dos with a mix of XTR/XT parts. Weighs a smidge over 24 lbs right now.

    I'm still playing with air pressure. I weigh ~165 and I currently have about 15psi in the shock. How far down should the o-ring go at full travel?
    I wanna say that I read from Salsa that you should actually bottom the shock out a couple of times each ride (depending on terrain of course)otherwise you are not using the shocks full 1" of travel. I am about your weight and I ran mine at "0" psi. Many others do the same.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat Ark
    I wanna say that I read from Salsa that you should actually bottom the shock out a couple of times each ride (depending on terrain of course)otherwise you are not using the shocks full 1" of travel. I am about your weight and I ran mine at "0" psi. Many others do the same.
    I'm around 165 lbs. and never run mine over 5psi...

    Nice bike btw!
    Like the silver. Are you running an 80 mm fork?

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    The DosNiner shares the same back end for three of the frame sizes (21.3 inch seattube on the 16, 18 and 20" frames), so you're always going to be limited with how low the seatpost can go. Its DEFINITELY not a frame for short people, and even if the standover on the 16" isn't that bad, many folks will complain about the seatpost not being able to go low enough.

    The 20" has a 24.4" effective toptube and the 22" (which is really a 23.7" seattube) has a 25" effective toptube. The difference in standover is a bit over an inch though (at over 33" for the 22" frame). I'm riding a 24.1" effective toptube now with a 120mm stem on my current 29er. The 20" Dos will let me go to a 110mm stem and keep exactly the saddle to bar distance i like to use now (and the same as I have on my 20" beasley with a 130mm stem and most all my 26er bikes which tend to run 130 or 150mm stems depending on TT length). If I got the 22" Dos I'd have to go to a 95mm stem to be in the same position and well, that's not quite a common size for stems. Not to mention I already have a nice 120g titanium 110mm stem ready and waiting to go on it when the frame arrives, hopefully next week. In addition, even if I wanted a longer compartment, a 20mm longer stem is lighter than a 2" bigger frame size. The only reason at all for me to run a 25" toptube would be if I planned to use my Ti Jones bar on it, which I don't, as I haven't actually enjoyed it that much.
    So you cut the setpost down. problem solved
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  41. #91
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    geometry

    Anyone riding/racing a size smaller than advisable with a longer stem and/or layback seatpost?

    I'm a pretty tall guy, 6'4", 36" inseam, long arms, big feet. This was my first 29er and as I race it more and get more demanding of the bike, I have been making minor tweaks to my position on the XL frame.

    The first thing I noticed coming from a 26" is how much more wheel is sticking out front on a 29er. That was very much welcome, I could take big descents with much more confidence.

    As I learned to rail corners I found the 70mm stem had me too far back and I switched to 100mm. That made the cockpit feel too lengthy and I slid the seat forward. Now I'm feeling the need to weight the front even more and noticing the slightly sluggish turning with a big wheelbase on tight switchbacks.

    I've been studying the measurements between the Dos Niner XL and L, here are the differences:
    Seat Tube: 23.76" XL, 21.35" L, difference= 2.41"
    Top Tube C-C: 24.06" XL, 23.36" L, difference = 0.7"
    Top Tube (Horiz): 24.46" L, 25.0" XL, difference =0.54"
    Head Tube: 3.9" L, 4.3" XL, difference = 0.4"
    Front-Center: 26.0" L, 26.7" XL, difference = 0.7"
    Standover: 32.38" L, 33.48" XL, difference = 1.1"



    The only significantly negative difference I see is in seat tube length; I may have to buy a longer seatpost. The Head tube difference of 0.4" is somewhat annoying since the XL's is pretty short to begin with. The >3/4 inch of difference in top tube might be just perfect.

    Complicating this decision is the fact that I favor my 120mm maxle Reba. Plushed out with lowered psi, it still gives me excellent clearance for the 185mm Surly cranks that I swear by. I think a shorter wheelbase could compensate for the slower turning angle that this fork gives me.

    Thoughts or experiences? If anybody has an offer to make in trade, PM me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dos Niner Fan Club-53116980.jpg  


  42. #92
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    I don't have this anymore but I came across this photo in my computer and just figured that I would post it up for the sake of the thread.

  43. #93
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    I am new to the Dos Niner thing. Can anyone comment on out of the saddle hammering? Does it feel like a hardtail when standing and pedaling to accelerate for small jumps? Thanks for any help. Looking to buy a medium soon..

    Oh also, I want to set up as a SS andy thoughts?

  44. #94
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    Feels just like a HT out of the saddle IMO. As for setting it up SS, others have done it successfully.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Anyone riding/racing a size smaller than advisable with a longer stem and/or layback seatpost?

    I'm a pretty tall guy, 6'4", 36" inseam, long arms, big feet. This was my first 29er and as I race it more and get more demanding of the bike, I have been making minor tweaks to my position on the XL frame.

    As I learned to rail corners I found the 70mm stem had me too far back and I switched to 100mm. That made the cockpit feel too lengthy and I slid the seat forward. Now I'm feeling the need to weight the front even more and noticing the slightly sluggish turning with a big wheelbase on tight switchbacks.

    I've been studying the measurements between the Dos Niner XL and L, here are the differences:
    Seat Tube: 23.76" XL, 21.35" L, difference= 2.41"
    Top Tube C-C: 24.06" XL, 23.36" L, difference = 0.7"
    Top Tube (Horiz): 24.46" L, 25.0" XL, difference =0.54"
    Head Tube: 3.9" L, 4.3" XL, difference = 0.4"
    Front-Center: 26.0" L, 26.7" XL, difference = 0.7"
    Standover: 32.38" L, 33.48" XL, difference = 1.1"



    The only significantly negative difference I see is in seat tube length; I may have to buy a longer seatpost. The Head tube difference of 0.4" is somewhat annoying since the XL's is pretty short to begin with. The >3/4 inch of difference in top tube might be just perfect.

    Complicating this decision is the fact that I favor my 120mm maxle Reba. Plushed out with lowered psi, it still gives me excellent clearance for the 185mm Surly cranks that I swear by. I think a shorter wheelbase could compensate for the slower turning angle that this fork gives me.

    Thoughts or experiences? If anybody has an offer to make in trade, PM me.
    You are a tad beyond the "tweener" spot [6'2" - 6'3"] that could probably make a size L work. You firmly land in the size XL category and that's usually where I go as well in spite of testing and trying to make a size L fit before.

    I'm pretty much the same dimensions as you (long legs and arms, but a hair under 6'4" (I'm 191.5cm) and a hair under 36" inseam (35.75") using the bare foot on the floor to top of book in the crotch measurement) and comfortably ride the 2006 XL Dos with a 5 degree 90mm stem (sometimes I flip it down and sometimes not). But I ride and race it with my older generation Reba Race set at 80mm. I've yet to try my Reba at 100 on the Dos, but I like the quickness of the 80mm for XC racing. 180mm cranks.

    Maybe your fork at 120mm, with your seat slid forward and perhaps too long of a stem compromises your turning/handling and is the underlying reason you are contemplating swapping frame sizes. I think for your size, dropping to the size L is going to end in a bad fit filled with band-aids. That's my opinion of course - totally based on being the same size as you. Okay, my feet are not size 15, but my son's are. ;-]

    Why did you jump all the way from a 70mm stem to a 100mm stem? I guess if you had a 17 degree sweep handlebar you would be okay with 100 - 110mm stem, but I bet there is a sweet spot waiting for you in there around 90mm stem length. I've tried 85mm, 90, 100, 105, 110 all with various angles and a half dozen handlebars thanks to my parts bin and other bikes in the garage. That's all part of the natural tweaking phase one goes through as they get used to a bike and look for handling improvements.

    I would not be so quick to trade out to a smaller frame size. All the plumbing (bars, stem, spacers, etc...) might get even more crazy with the smaller size L frame and lead to utter frustration. Heck, the Dos Niner - as well as the XL Karate Monkey - both have one of the shortest ETT's for the size XL's out there in 29"er land compared to other brands (ditto for the Dos and KM's wheelbase - short). My Sugar 293's ETT is 1/2 longer and my JET and RIP are also longer in XL than the Dos (both ETT and wheelbase). What does the ETT mean stem wise if you dropped down to the smaller sized L frame? 1/2" = 12.7mm so in addition to more seatpost, you'll need a longer stem and/or more layback on the seatpost. And more spacers, stem/bar rise to deal with the even shorter head tube length. I think you are on the correctly sized bike.....

    My XL in 23.x lbs. with flipped 90mm stem and very little sweep bar race kit:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/4085993147/" title="RaceLightDos by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4085993147_c10f89a218_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="RaceLightDos" /></a>

    And here she is in flipped up 100mm stem and bar with more sweep formation:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/3756060691/" title="DosNinerConAspens by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3424/3756060691_a631a1b932_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="DosNinerConAspens" /></a>

    Since your Dos is still pretty new to you, I'd say keep fiddling and tweaking the fit with proper stem length, saddle position and fork travel until you find your sweet spot. I'll be riding my 5th XC race season this year on the Dos and it took a season or two to dial in the sweet spot and really get comfortable on the bike. Even then, I still like to play with bar height, stem length, stem angle all the time just for the heck of it. I run narrow bars with very little bend in them for tight and twisty courses and sometimes run the Salsa 17 degree bend bar with longer stem for other courses and training. It all depends.

    BB
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 01-02-2010 at 01:56 PM.

  46. #96
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    Okay, how about the seating position is it more relaxed or are you bent over like a true cross country race position? Thanks again

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest72
    Okay, how about the seating position is it more relaxed or are you bent over like a true cross country race position? Thanks again
    Are you looking for a more relaxed position on the bike or to be more bent over on the bike?

    I can do both (as well as everything inbetween) on my bike depending on number of spacers, stem rise, bar rise, etc... combinations. The headtube is short (too short IMO for those of us riding the XL) and with an 80mm fork - one can get a huge saddle to bar drop if desired. Or one can add plumbing to get things adjusted (see my photos above in this thread) up enough. I run with about a 1 - 2" saddle to bar drop before accounting for sag. And if the HT is not too short for riders in all sizes of the Dos, one can run a negative stem to get lower if so desired.

    I run it most of the time with a little drop and pretty narrow flat bars with little bend, but as you can see by the amount of spacers I use - there is plenty of room for an extreme drop.

    Using the 2 pictures from above again to show examples, I get in a good position on climbs with this set-up:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/4085993147/" title="RaceLightDos by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4085993147_c10f89a218_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="RaceLightDos" /></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/2855502145/" title="BBDiggingDeep by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/2855502145_0937c1d807_o.jpg" width="368" height="550" alt="BBDiggingDeep" /></a>

    And out of saddle is easy to use for those power up grunt climbs...

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/2614555172/" title="GrindingUp by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3117/2614555172_50b54397cc_o.jpg" width="533" height="800" alt="GrindingUp" /></a>

    My more "all mountain" position that is more upright using the higher rise stem and Salsa 17 degree bend bar gets me closer to level between bar and saddle before sag:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/3756060691/" title="DosNinerConAspens by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3424/3756060691_a631a1b932_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="DosNinerConAspens" /></a>

    However, that forces me to really bend the arms and tuck on the climbs:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/3898370707/" title="ClimbingLakeside by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2520/3898370707_be6c5fd55f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="ClimbingLakeside" /></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/3837346042/" title="Border Battle Opening Climb by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3483/3837346042_038bbd11d5_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="Border Battle Opening Climb" /></a>

    So that set-up using the higher rise stem and severe bend bar doesn't get used as often for my racing. But it sure is comfy for training and longer efforts - or races that I want a little more upright and comfy position on for whatever reason.

    You can dial it in however you want is what I'm saying. Spacers, stems, bars and any combination of them allows you to be way below saddle, just a bit below, even with or if one wanted to even be above the saddle. Mix and match. Accessorize!!

    BB
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 01-03-2010 at 07:48 AM.

  48. #98
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    Thanks for all of the great info. I actually want the bar at or above the saddle height to give me more of the relaxed positioning because of my lower back. From the pics it looks like this will be impossible on the dos niner.

    Thanks again

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest72
    Thanks for all of the great info. I actually want the bar at or above the saddle height to give me more of the relaxed positioning because of my lower back. From the pics it looks like this will be impossible on the dos niner.

    Thanks again
    Not true. Did you read my post above and see the pictures? You can easily get the bar at or above saddle level (providing you don't hack off too much of the steerer tube on your fork so that no amount of spacers, stem angle and riser bar would get you at or above saddle level). Heck, run it with a 100mm suspension fork and you'd be there in a New York minute!

    And look at all the pictures in these two Dos Niner threads you are posting on. Lots of Dos Niners with the bars above the saddle.

    BB

  50. #100
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    okay, this will be the new 09 so the steere tube (Reba SL) will still be in tact. It looked like the pics showed the bars below the saddle but I will take your word for it and also upgrade that Reba to the 100mm. Thanks again for the help!

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