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  1. #1
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    2014 Salsa El Mariachi

    Any photos/spec.s on next years El Mar? Seen the white SS, but can't find anything on the geared bikes..

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    Salsa are suggesting that their new website with details of all the 2014 stuff will go live in Sep.

    Also want to see what the 2014 el Mar looks like, as well as the Firestarter carbon TA fork...

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    The el Mar SS looks really nice. Pity there's no pics of the geared frames. I wonder if the geometry has changed apart from the shorter chain stays?

    Also, looks like the Cromoto Maxle has gone 15mm

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    Anyone know if the El Mariachi will come as a frameset only?
    MCH Co-Captain

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichwic View Post
    Anyone know if the El Mariachi will come as a frameset only?
    I'd be surprised if it doesn't; 2013 one does.

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    According to the Salsa catalogue, the frame will be available in Ti (blue/natural) and steel (orange)

    http://salsacycles.com/2014-dealer-p...er_Preview.pdf

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    That orange is a bit, erm, eye-searing, but it's a grower, and it's not like it's worse than Cotic orange.

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    @druidh Have you got the Salsa components preview, by any chance?

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    2014 Salsa El Mariachi

    LBS got some 2014 machines last week. They posted this El Mar frame pic on their FB page.


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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    LBS got some 2014 machines last week. They posted this El Mar frame pic on their FB page.

    Looks almost red instead of Orange? Cool however!

  12. #12
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    Are those tubes a little fatter than 2013 , bottom tube at least looks fatter than before

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    Nice orange, much better looking in a detailed photo, than the other images I have seen.

    Might have to get a new El Mar frame this year...

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    Anyone have the MSRP for the 2014 Mariachi 2? Thanks!

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    Parts spec. and new geo? for the new El Mar 2?

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    2014 Salsa El Mariachi

    Quote Originally Posted by rushman3 View Post
    Parts spec. and new geo? for the new El Mar 2?
    It's all in the 2014 catalog that is linked earlier in the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratherbeintobago View Post
    @druidh Have you got the Salsa components preview, by any chance?
    Sorry - no. Should be available this week after Eurobike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitz3641 View Post
    Anyone have the MSRP for the 2014 Mariachi 2? Thanks!
    At my LBS it is retailing for $2299.99

  19. #19
    LFJ
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    Anyone have the MSRP for the 2014 Mariachi Ti XTR? Thanks

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    2014 Salsa El Mariachi

    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Anyone have the MSRP for the 2014 Mariachi Ti XTR? Thanks
    The XTR Ti version retails for $5999.

  21. #21
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    appreciate the info, thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsClearAsMud View Post
    At my LBS it is retailing for $2299.99
    Thanks.

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    Almost pulled the trigger getting an El Mar 3 two months back. Glad I did not because I got an El Mar2 (clearance) for the price of the complete 3. My wife was the one telling me to get the 2. Lets see, she wants me to get a better bike, she is a keeper.

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    The new 3 is spec'd a bit better than the 2013 3 , but I like the Manitou Tower fork better than the Recon Gold.

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    2014 Salsa El Mariachi

    Quote Originally Posted by Special eyes View Post
    Looks almost red instead of Orange? Cool however!
    I saw the frame in-person today. It's definitely bright orange. Looked great!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    I saw the frame in-person today. It's definitely bright orange. Looked great!
    I saw it today at my LBS. If I had the cash, I may just have bought it. It was that awesome looking!
    2013 Trek Marlin (Black)

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratherbeintobago View Post
    The el Mar SS looks really nice. Pity there's no pics of the geared frames. I wonder if the geometry has changed apart from the shorter chain stays?

    Also, looks like the Cromoto Maxle has gone 15mm


    Does it? Hope it looks better in person. I'd like to get the 2014 SS so I can convert my 2013 SS to XX1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratherbeintobago View Post
    Also, looks like the Cromoto Maxle has gone 15mm
    May I ask where you saw this? I'm having difficulty finding info on it...

  29. #29
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    May I ask where you saw this?
    It's in the PDF catalogue posted above, on the el Mar SS page:

    Salsa CroMoto tapered fork with 15mm thru-axle
    druidh suggested the Salsa components preview should be available this week, now Eurobike is behind us.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratherbeintobago View Post
    It's in the PDF catalogue posted above, on the el Mar SS page:



    druidh suggested the Salsa components preview should be available this week, now Eurobike is behind us.
    Ahh, thank you. I missed that. I glanced at the fork and thought it looked like a normal QR nut then moved on.

    I'm hoping I can get one of those in black... With a tapered steerer to boot...

  31. #31
    ejj
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    Rode the 2014 2 tonight. The orange is good. Bike is awesome. Want.

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    Anyone know what MSRP on the new 3 will be?

    And for anyone who's ridden it- what's the ride like now with the shorter chainstays?

  33. #33
    ejj
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    Did not ride the 3. They did not have one available. Rode the 2. I'm 6'2" and rode the large with the seat cranked. Loved it. Very snappy. The 2 is 2300. My guess for the 3 is 17-1800. Same frame with some cheaper goodies.

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    Anybody else had the chance to ride a new El Mar yet?

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    UK importer only bringing in the frame & the singlespeed this year. Hmmm.

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    Anyone know what the design is on the down tube on the El Mar 2&3?

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    just ordered an el mar SS, delivery march 2014, europe only gets a few

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    Looking at the 2014 El Mar I see a number of component changes from 2013 and am wondering if folks have any experiences with the Shimano components - specifically the SLX brakes and the MT66 wheelset. 2013 El Mar 2’s are now down to $16XX mail ordered which is enticing. But I am intrigued with how these component changes in 2014 stack up. 2013 featured SRAM Elixir 5 brakes and Stan’s ZTR Rapid rims with Salsa 2 Formula hubs.

    And the switch from SRAM to Shimano drivetrain? Opinions?

    Personally, I love the “General Lee” orange…

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    Quote Originally Posted by wahday View Post
    Looking at the 2014 El Mar I see a number of component changes from 2013 and am wondering if folks have any experiences with the Shimano components - specifically the SLX brakes and the MT66 wheelset. 2013 El Mar 2’s are now down to $16XX mail ordered which is enticing. But I am intrigued with how these component changes in 2014 stack up. 2013 featured SRAM Elixir 5 brakes and Stan’s ZTR Rapid rims with Salsa 2 Formula hubs.

    And the switch from SRAM to Shimano drivetrain? Opinions?

    Personally, I love the “General Lee” orange…
    SLX brakes are awesome. I love Shimano brakes in general, and these feel as good as my XTs (I have both). Can't speak to the wheels.

  40. #40
    ejj
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    2014 frame geometry is better. The SLX brakes are awesome. SLX drivetrain is very nice. Can't say much about the wheels. Seemed fine tome when I rode it. The Stan's rims are some lower level OEM only. I don't think either wheel set is remarkable, but for 2200 you aren't going to get remarkable wheels.

    The 2014 also comes with a Thompson setback seat post, which is a nice thing for some people. The 2014 Fox forks are better as well.

    Plus orange!

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    Thanks for the great feedback. I am thinking its worth going for the 2014 at this point, though current pricing for the 2013 El Mar 2 at Universal Cycles is a pretty nice deal…

    This Shimano MT66 wheelset seems to be fairly new as I have not found much in the way of user reviews. The Rapids got ok reviews – basically Stan’s entry level tubeless XC rims – but not fantastic. But tubeless is what I want and I’ll take my chances. Even with the wheelsets being equivalent, the bump up on the fork and brakes (elixir 5’s seem to get mixed reviews and reveal a potential quality control issue) as well as the shorter chainstay make it very attractive. And though I try not to base m y decisions solely on aesthetics, that orange gets me going…

    This would be both my long range (long day rides and bikepacking) and steep descent rider. My other bikes are a 26er Klein Attitude (which is my bikepacker and fast and flat ride) and Raleigh XXIX SS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ejj View Post
    The SLX brakes are awesome. SLX drivetrain is very nice.
    This. SLX has a very good reputation at the moment. The UK importer isn't bringing in the complete bike, but I plan to have SLX on the frame build.

    Fox forks currently 'enjoy' a not-great reputation over here for premature stanchion wear, ridiculously short service intervals and (on the 2013 forks at least) dubious damping tune.

  43. #43
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    LBS has the new SS on the floor in a box. Build up and test ride tomorrow or Sunday. I plan to pull the trigger and add a squishy fork. Excited - first SS.

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    Ordering a El Mar 2014 General Lee Frame later...... should have it within about three days.
    Really looking forward to building it up....... Thinking 1*10 speed.
    Want to get the Firestarter fork, but's that's only available in jan or feb next year (here in Holland anyway).

    Anyone know how quick the “turn around” build time is from geared to SS?
    Last edited by Force Wheelz; 11-22-2013 at 08:51 AM.
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    The 2013 El Mariachi 2 comes with Manitou Tower Expert fork: Shimano SLX drivetrain, Avid Elixir 1 brakes, Salsa Pro Moto 3 cockpit, Continental Trail King tires. If you had $500 to upgrade this bike, what components would you add/change?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyro_t View Post
    If you had $500 to upgrade this bike, what components would you add/change?
    Avid brakes. Powerful but howl like dying dogs and the back one needed bleeding about every two weeks, for no apparent reason (LBS reckoned this was common).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyro_t View Post
    The 2013 El Mariachi 2 comes with Manitou Tower Expert fork: Shimano SLX drivetrain, Avid Elixir 1 brakes, Salsa Pro Moto 3 cockpit, Continental Trail King tires. If you had $500 to upgrade this bike, what components would you add/change?
    Isn't that the 3 with the Tower Expert, Elixir 1s, etc.? I think the 2 comes with a Reba and Elixir 5s.

    I think I'd look at a set of Stans Arch EX wheels (or Crests if you're lighter). Will save you a good amount of weight. The Formula hubs are fairly decent, but quite a bit heavier than the ZTR hubs. My Spearfish came with a Formula hub/Arch wheelset that weighed over 2000g if I remember correctly. So even with the same rims, a set of Arches with ZTR hubs would have saved me over half a pound of rotating weight. Full Crests saved me a pound (which is what I went with). I don't know much about the Sun Inferno rims that come with the 3, but I'm guessing at the pricepoint they're probably not light (wheelset with most likely weigh over 2000g) and not tubeless ready.

    Brakes would be my second choice. Check out Blue Sky for some SLX or XTs if that's what you decide. You would have some extra funds to upgrade miscellaneous parts if you went this route.

    Overall, that's a really good spec for the price, esp. with the discounts on 2013s. Good luck!

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    Thanks ratherbeintobago, and So Cal Rx for those suggestions. Sorry that had meant to say the El Mar 3 and not two, but I guess the suggestions still hold. i like the idea of the Stan's Arches EX wheelset. I am 195#so better not try the Crests. Well, that would take care of the $500 in upgrade in one fell swoop!

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    Got the frame in.The orange is amazing..... just in your face... and some!

    Waiting for the parts to get in, then I'll build it up.
    Probably going to be:

    Frame: El Mariachi 2014
    Fork: Now: Syncros FL but am going over to a Salsa Carbon FireStarter in January when it comes in.
    Drivetrain: 1*10 XT with Hope 34t ring and chain guide. KMC chain.
    BB and headset: Hope
    Bars, pens, saddle and skewers: Syncros
    Brakes: Hope Tech 3 (probably E4 or X2 (or mix) can't decide... any ideas?)
    Wheels: I'm gonna build a Ryde Trace Trail rim on to VIA MTB hubs to test them out. Will probably build a set of Hope's on E*Thirteen TRS+ rims in the spring. (my favourite rim ;-))
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2014 Salsa El Mariachi-photo-1.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-photo-2.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-photo-3.jpg  

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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Wheelz View Post
    Anyone know how quick the “turn around” build time is from geared to SS?

    Took me less than an hr, for 1x10 geared to SS. That would include switching rear tire to SS wheel, and sliding the grip to remove rt. shifter. My chainrings slide through the driveside crank arm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigmode View Post
    Took me less than an hr, for 1x10 geared to SS. That would include switching rear tire to SS wheel, and sliding the grip to remove rt. shifter. My chainrings slide through the driveside crank arm.
    Oh ok, that's not bad......thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Wheelz View Post
    Got the frame in.The orange is amazing..... just in your face... and some!
    I just got mine two weeks ago and love the way it rides, and I love the orange as well. Definitely less red than your pictures look—it just pops!

    Can't wait to see yours all built up.

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    Just put my deposit down on the 2014 SS. My LBS just got mine in and put it on layaway for me. Can't wait to ride it.. Pretty sweet bike in person.

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    Another vote of confidence for Shimano bits. I don't know the brakes cos I have Hope but the SLX drivechain bits work brilliantly. SLX rear mechs in combination with XT shifters work just fine. I definitely reccommend the Shadow Plus mechs for smoother and quieter runnuing.

    On my El-Mar Ti 1 x10 I have Works Components Narrow/Wide 32T on XT cranks, XT shifters, and SLX clutch rear mech. It's all working very smoothly indeed. Hope X2-Evo brakes though - Love 'em (sorry Shimano).
    Last edited by Tea@Dimbola; 12-07-2013 at 04:05 AM.

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    Sounds good..... I'm going to run the X2 in the rear, and the new E4 at the front... just a bit more bite if needed (although this will be more of a fun, do all bike.... if it gets too hilly or bumpy I'll be taking my Salsa Spearfish..... also with Hope brakes by the way.... (sorry Shimano )
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    Hope brakes FTW.

    DOI: live 15 miles from the factory, and due to financial constraints am recycling X2s off the old bike.

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    Force Wheelz- funny you should mention the Spearfish. I've just got myself a 2012 bright orange frame. I'm planning to strip the El-Mar Ti and put the bits on the new Fish frame. I got the El-Mar thinking it would completely replace my Turner Flux. It's been fantstic but I've felt that I still need the Flux sometimes. At the moment I ride the El-Mar about 85-90% of the time and just take the Flux when I'm expecting harsher trails or faster bumpy downhills.
    The plan is to see if Spearfish can replace both bikes. I'll be taking the SF to all those places where the El-Mar is a bit 'twitchy' and where I've thought "I should have brought the Flux instead." The proof of the 'Fish Pie' will be in the eating!

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    Tea@Dimbola OK, I wonder which one you will chose. I wouldn't want to choose between a Fish and a El-Mar, not for here in Holland anyway.......
    Lot's of flat stuff here, so the El-Mar is perfect for that (and for on the beaches with the wide Schwalbe Super Moto's). But if I go to the south, or even Germany or Belgium, then the Fish just rock's.
    (this being based on my logic of how I THINK the El-Mar will be, seeing as it's not built yet....... final parts coming in next week I hope!!
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    I'll put the finished photo's up the weekend!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010376.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010379.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010380.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010381.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010382.jpg  

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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Wheelz View Post
    I'll put the finished photo's up the weekend!
    THAT is going to be a beautiful bike!

  61. #61
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    The orange!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pigmode View Post
    The orange!!!
    It is an amazing orange (called General Lee Orange) and to be truthfull, the photo's don't do it justice.
    I'm going to take it to the beach and the forest tomorrow, so I'll post some stuff tomorrow.
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    Very nice.....Orange and Black, work well together.

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    Well guys, I took the bike to the woods and beach today.... just for a little photo shoot... be riding next weekend....... Here are just a few photo's to get an idea of the looks of the bike..... I'll put more on my Facebook page (Force Wheelz).
    I'm not a pro photographer, so couldn't do much with the colour..... the ones on the beach beside the concrete blocks give the most "realistic" colour.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010383.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010386.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010395.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010414.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010438.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010439.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010450.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010455.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010456.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010459.jpg  

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1010466.jpg  

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    Sweetness.

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    Great bike! How do you like the super moto's? I also want to try them on my 2012 elmariachi. What pressure do you use?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igoreha View Post
    Great bike! How do you like the super moto's? I also want to try them on my 2012 elmariachi. What pressure do you use?
    Thanks..... Super Moto's are cool for on ther beach or asfalt..... I use, depending where I ride, roughly 1.8bar.
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    Force Wheelz, Did you get the chance to compare specs of the Syncros to the Salsa steel fork?

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    @Pigmode I didn't because this is a "temporary" fork until the Salsa Firestarter will be available in the new year (I have one pre-orderd). It was always the plan to put the Firestarter in (seeing as this was designed with the Fargo and El Mariachi in mind.
    The Syncros was a choice with the future in mind (either a good 2nd hand selling fork, or keep ik for maybe an all carbon rigid racy build). The Syncros has a 7mm smaller rake compaired to the Firestarter. I have this bike clearly for fun, messing about and being able to take it on the beach without risking my expensive suspention en moving parts on my (very much loved) Salsa Spearfish Custom due to salty water etc. So I'm going to get a couple of months riding in, then swich forks and compare the two.
    Also, it will be interesting to see the visual differences between en "suspension looking" Syncros and the Firestarter.
    Passionate about Wheelz!

  70. #70
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    Looking forward to your impressions.

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    What's the current thinking on stem length for a M El Mar?

    Effective TT on current bike 16mm shorter, with 110mm stem & 685mm bars; thinking 80mm stem and 740mm Fatbar Lite, but open to suggestions.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratherbeintobago View Post
    What's the current thinking on stem length for a M El Mar?

    Effective TT on current bike 16mm shorter, with 110mm stem & 685mm bars; thinking 80mm stem and 740mm Fatbar Lite, but open to suggestions.
    I shortened my stem to 90mm and added Ergon grips with bar ends. I like the shorter wider position.

    Knocked out 96 miles in a race yesterday on my El Mar single speed. Love it!

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    Bumping this thread to see if anyone has a frame weight for one of these. Did some searching, but I didn't find anything.

    EDIT: Derp, found it on Salsa's website.
    Last edited by cm_mtb; 04-21-2014 at 06:36 AM.

  74. #74
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    hello, just ordered my new orange El Mar frame! Thinking to put on a Manitou Tower Pro 80mm stripped from a Karate Monkey that will become my commuter.
    Pretty worried about those 20mm of missing travel...
    Any thought? suggestion?
    Thanks alot

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    Quote Originally Posted by madbike View Post
    hello, just ordered my new orange El Mar frame! Thinking to put on a Manitou Tower Pro 80mm stripped from a Karate Monkey that will become my commuter.
    Pretty worried about those 20mm of missing travel...
    Any thought? suggestion?
    Thanks alot
    I don't know about the newest model, but previous El Mars were spec'd for 80mm or 100mm. In reality, 20mm is a little over 3/4 in, so its not a huge difference and impacts on riding geometry are not going to be noticed by the vast majority of riders (myself included)

    I have an 80mm on my El Mar. No problems and never bottomed out.

    Also, my Reba can be set to 80mm or 100mm. I am not familiar enough with the Manitou Tower Pro to know if that is also an option for this model though. I believe you can do it on the Expert.

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    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-image.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by madbike View Post
    hello, just ordered my new orange El Mar frame! Thinking to put on a Manitou Tower Pro 80mm stripped from a Karate Monkey that will become my commuter.
    Pretty worried about those 20mm of missing travel...
    Any thought? suggestion?
    Thanks alot
    20mm will make a difference to what the bike was designed to feel like, but if it's you only option at the moment...... Then go for it.
    I now have the carbon Firestarter fork in the bike and it rides amazingly. Actually, coming back to the point about how a bike was designed to feel..... Halfway through a ride I changed the position of the alternators from all the way back to all the way forward. Thus making the bike about 2cm shorter. WHAT A DIFFERENCE !!!
    I couldn't believe the way it went from a comfy riding machine to a sharp, whippy carving bike. Was a real eye-opener for me to realise how slight changes in geometry can make such a difference in ride experience. (Notice I said experience and not "quality" seeing as the way I had it before was good aswell, expecilly for long, straight rides)
    Passionate about Wheelz!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wahday View Post
    I don't know about the newest model, but previous El Mars were spec'd for 80mm or 100mm. In reality, 20mm is a little over 3/4 in, so its not a huge difference and impacts on riding geometry are not going to be noticed by the vast majority of riders (myself included)

    I have an 80mm on my El Mar. No problems and never bottomed out.

    Also, my Reba can be set to 80mm or 100mm. I am not familiar enough with the Manitou Tower Pro to know if that is also an option for this model though. I believe you can do it on the Expert.
    Thanks wahday for sharing your direct experience.
    I unsuccessfully tried to find detailed informations about differences in the various model year frames, if any.
    I think the El Mar geo is unchanged...

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Wheelz View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    20mm will make a difference to what the bike was designed to feel like, but if it's you only option at the moment...... Then go for it.
    I now have the carbon Firestarter fork in the bike and it rides amazingly. Actually, coming back to the point about how a bike was designed to feel..... Halfway through a ride I changed the position of the alternators from all the way back to all the way forward. Thus making the bike about 2cm shorter. WHAT A DIFFERENCE !!!
    I couldn't believe the way it went from a comfy riding machine to a sharp, whippy carving bike. Was a real eye-opener for me to realise how slight changes in geometry can make such a difference in ride experience. (Notice I said experience and not "quality" seeing as the way I had it before was good aswell, expecilly for long, straight rides)
    Thanks Force Wheelz, I love your ElMar , consistent, beatiful and very classy!
    I will put on that 80mm susp now, but I'm already thinking to go for the Firestarter as it's pretty flat around here... and anyway, I really like the great precision of the rigid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madbike View Post
    Thanks Force Wheelz, I love your ElMar , consistent, beatiful and very classy!
    I will put on that 80mm susp now, but I'm already thinking to go for the Firestarter as it's pretty flat around here... and anyway, I really like the great precision of the rigid.

    Thanks madbike. I took a dive in the Salsa Archives, and found these two quotes about the "new style" (2014 or later) El Mariachi:

    Updated geometry for 2014 with super short chainstays for improved singletrack agility, while remaining stable and balanced. Alternator dropouts provide user-customizable geometry. Day-in, day-out, versatile and reliable performance. Perfect for long singletrack sessions and bikepacking expeditions

    AND

    Frame designed for 100mm travel suspension fork or Salsa Firestarter Carbon/Firestarter forks

    If you google the El Mariachi 2013 and compare a pic to the 2014, you will also see that the bottom tube in the 2014 frame (and after) has a bend in it right after the head tube. This could also make a difference geometry wise. I know that older El Mar's were made for "between 80mm-100mm". If I remember well, a few years back even one of the El Mar's was given a Manitou Tower 80mm as a stock fork.

    And about your wish for a carbon Firestarter....... can only say DO IT!!
    If the budget is there money wise, it's an amazingly stiff and direct fork. Good fun!!
    <dd style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 2em; padding: 0px 2em 0px 0px; direction: ltr; position: relative; display: none; font-family: proxima-nova; font-size: 16px; line-height: 25.6000003814697px;"></dd>
    Passionate about Wheelz!

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    Thanks for your help Force Wheelz.
    (what about your fat front tire? is that a 29X3 Knard?... It should be great in couple with the carbon Firestarter!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by madbike View Post
    Thanks for your help Force Wheelz.
    (what about your fat front tire? is that a 29X3 Knard?... It should be great in couple with the carbon Firestarter!)
    Yeah man... I just made new wheels for the bike. Took out the super light carbon Duke Lucky Jack's (save them for a different project) and I made a set of really cool 45mm wide Velocity Dually's on my Chris King Mango's with DT Swiss SuperComp spokes.
    Put a folding Surly Knard 3.0 up front and a Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2,35 in the rear. Made it all tubeless and it''s good to go! I use the bike mainly on Ameland, which is a island here in the north of the Netherlands. Lots of beach, dunes, bit of forest, bit of single track. Perfect set up. Just a damn fun bike to ride..... Camel Back full of liquid and sandwitches, and just go explore all day! #goodfun
    Passionate about Wheelz!

  82. #82
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    I took a look at Ameland with GE.... damn, you are a very lucky guy! I live in Milan in Italy and I must always carry the bike on my car to find some nice spot near here (thought Italy is a fantastic place for MTB)
    Enjoy that lands!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Wheelz View Post
    Yeah man... I just made new wheels for the bike. Took out the super light carbon Duke Lucky Jack's (save them for a different project) and I made a set of really cool 45mm wide Velocity Dually's on my Chris King Mango's with DT Swiss SuperComp spokes.
    Put a folding Surly Knard 3.0 up front and a Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2,35 in the rear. Made it all tubeless and it''s good to go! I use the bike mainly on Ameland, which is a island here in the north of the Netherlands. Lots of beach, dunes, bit of forest, bit of single track. Perfect set up. Just a damn fun bike to ride..... Camel Back full of liquid and sandwitches, and just go explore all day! #goodfun
    How much space do you have out back with the alternators pushed back? Any chance of fitting a knard in there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo2213 View Post
    How much space do you have out back with the alternators pushed back? Any chance of fitting a knard in there?
    Not a chance I'm afraid, I tried it... couldn't even get it close to fitting...... a 2,35 Racing Ralph on 45mm rims is really pushing it. Salsa says that it's for a 2.4 with "plenty of mud clearence" but I'm thinking they have that on a "normal" rim and not a 29er+ rim like the Dually's I have.
    So no go I'm afraid on the Knard.
    Passionate about Wheelz!

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    Does the Knard on the front make a big difference to shock absorption or floatation? And does the 2.35 rear seem inadequate when paired with the Knard? (I'm thinking of doing something similar, although with 35-40mm rims.)

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    Does the Knard on the front make a big difference to shock absorption or floatation? And does the 2.35 rear seem inadequate when paired with the Knard? (I'm thinking of doing something similar, although with 35-40mm rims.)

    Thanks!
    Now, to tell you the truth it feels really good for the stuff we get here in Holland. It is definatly more comfy than a normal front tire, and I have had zero problems so far with the rear being "too small".
    I'd say go for it and try for yourself. I'm positive about the set up and it works for me.
    Passionate about Wheelz!

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    Thanks Wheels!

    I'm light (and very unlikely to want to ride on snow here in Australia) so I expect you're right about things being big enough, The largest tyre I've ever used is 2.35, and 2.0-2.2 has been more common. If having a Knard on the front means I don't need a suspension fork for comfort and makes things more stable on sand patches, all will be good. :-)

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    I'm in the same position. I have an El-Mar Ti with Cromoto q/r fork. I've recently junked my rear Maxxis Crossmark 2.1 (too delicate) and moved my Nobby Nic 2.25 to the rear. I've put a Hans Dampf 2.35 on the front @ 21 psi. I am finding this nice and grippy on slippery leaves & wet roots. The Nobby Nic on the rear now gets me through the New Forest winter slop where the Crossmark was previously spinning out.
    I'm also tempted to experiment the bigger rims & tyres - (I currently have Arches btw) as the rigid doesn't cope so well on some of my faster, lumpier descents. The thing is though, people point out that fat tyres provide 'un-damped' suspension and so won't necessarily be the answer to your (and my) prayers for fast descents. Also
    if you think about it, swapping from an Arch and 2.35 Hans Dampf to fat P35 or Dually rim and 3 inch Knard or Chronicle tyre will probably add as much weight and less effect than simply swapping out my cromoto fork for my Fox Float. These things are never simple - I don't want to spend a fortune and add weight, only to achieve what I could have done more simply and cheaply. I suppose it depends whether or not you need the 'floatation' capabilites over snow, marshy ground and beach - I don't.
    Anyway - the amazing thing is just how much great riding you can do on the rigid bike, especially if you have a nice well designed frame.

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    ^ I understand about the undamped part, but that isn't all that likely to bother me TBH; I'm more interested in saving complication and maintenance. As for extra weight, I'd be using 35-40mm carbon rims, so any extra weight would be in the tyres only - if there was anything significant. Most of my riding is on hardpack (sandstone country), with occasional sand patches; snow or beach riding is extremely unlikely, and I detest mud and biting insects so marshes are right out! :-)

    In the past I've toured successfully off-road with <=2.2" tyres, with the only aggravation being from (occasional) front-wheel directional instability on sand, and buzz from washboards. My hope is that a larger front tyre (and maybe a CF fork) should reduce these problems without adding any complexity. Sus forks need too much upkeep for my liking, and longer term spares availability doesn't make me happy.

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    I think we're all on the same page here...... A fat front tire will never be a substitute for a suspension fork, but is does give more comfort and float. I kan. Imagine aswell that the Carbon Firestarter fork I have is verticaly more compliant than a steel fork. It's amazingly stiff sideways, and when I brake there is absoultly no twist whatsoever. But still, even with the lightweight Duke Lucky Jack carbon rims and 2.0 tires it was still "comfy".
    What I also like about the wide tire, is the grip it gives. Bigger footprint gives more grip, so I find I can handle more slippy stuff with the relativly "small" knobs on the Knard.
    Passionate about Wheelz!

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    From the sounds of the kind of riding you guys are describing, a titanium fork would give you the compliance without the risk of catastrophic failure that CF forks are subject to. The fork on my wife's TiCycle would accommodate a Knard easily and cost about the same as the Salsa Firestarter fork. To me that is a no-brainer. It is a full pound lighter than my Fargo CrMo stock fork

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    Ti forks? The only ones I was aware of were custom, and only available with a frame order, but I see forks only are available from TiCycle here: Ti Cycles :: Hand Made in Portland, Oregon USA - but [gasp] $1095!!!

    (I suppose it might be possible to order something from XACD or somewhere similar in China though.)

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    Ticycles Adventure bike with said fork

    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-p1070243.jpg
    I saw that fork on their website too. Yeah, that is outrageous. The one on my wife's bike was $400. I don't think they charge much more than that as a part. That is about what they quoted me to replace my CrMo Fargo fork. I have decided to keep the CrMo for now though. Eventually, I will spring for it. I am afraid of CF especially with a fork. Sorry about the angle of the pic; it is a pic I already had. I can send a front view if desired. It has a lot of room for 3 or more inch tire. I am pretty sure the El Mar geometry is close to the Fargo, and they have been putting these on a number of Fargos.
    Last edited by Gyro_t; 12-05-2014 at 10:47 AM.

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    I just picked up a 2014 SS on clearance for 979! So far i've ridden it 10 feet around a bike shop. No pics since it's stock and I haven't even had time to take the reflectors off.

    It's my first mtb since 2005 unless you count fat bikes or cargo bikes!

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    @Gyro_t: Maybe the $400 forks only come with bikes, not separately; it wouldn't be a surprise if so. Seems like a lightweight steel fork would be a lot cheaper if one was paranoid about CF, but I've never had (or personally seen) a problem with one. While I'm sure some CF forks have been broken - everything has, by someone - it's just not that common IME.

    Also: What's the largest rear tyre anyone has managed to fit on this frame? I'll only have a single chainring (Rohloff) and don't care much about mud clearance, as long as the tyre doesn't rub; 35-40mm rims would be used.
    Last edited by satanas; 12-06-2014 at 09:20 PM.

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    Satanas, I have not seen one fail either. I have read of them failing though, and there are tons of You Tube videos showing them fail. The one thing that occurs to me is that once a CF fork or frame is manufactured, it is like an hour glass running out. Every day more plasticizer gasses-off, making it's usable lifetime limited. Do people retire their CF frames and forks after 5 years or after a crash? Beyond that, I read what engineering science has to say such as tensile strength and yield strength being so close together and what that means relative to failure (The Lowdown on Bicycle Tubing). I find it really interesting, yet a bit beyond my technical knowledge. BTW, Ti Cycles does sell that fork as a part. Thanks for your input.
    Last edited by Gyro_t; 12-07-2014 at 07:23 PM.

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    @Gyro_t: Yeah, okay. I don't doubt that everything has a finite life - at some point the sun will turn into a giant and obliterate the Earth - but I'm not so sure composites are necessarily a major problem. There are plenty of skis decades old that haven't yet broken, and I have a CF road frame that's now 23+ with a CF fork that's 20+ years old.

    Failure also depends on both design and usage. A conservatively-designed frame ridden reasonably carefully and not crashed is much more likely to survive than something more "bleeding edge" raced seriously. And forks are a bit different IMHO, as any sort of fork failure almost guarantees a crash, and injury. Many frame problems (i.e., slow cracking or delamination) will take a long time to progress to failure, whilst forks really should be designed with enough margin that they should withstand anything except serious abuse or crashes.

    Of course, I'm talking mostly about road stuff, but CF MTB frames have been out there for ~20 years or so now; forks are rather newer, and so I suppose less proven (over time), but still, nobody can really get away with a high failure rate if they expect to stay in business.

    BTW, thanks for the link to the article - I'll read it this evening. :-)

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    I think that it's good to buy a good fork from a good manufacturer. I have also seen obsure, no name carbon forks (and frames) implode for no apparent reason. But, I have yet to see a Whiskey built fork (like the Salsa Firestarter) break. You get what you pay for most of the time.
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    No doubt it does not pay to buy "no name" stuff especially when you consider how much we rely on our equipment being dependable. Salsa and others have had to do their share of recalls on forks and stuff. I think they are a reputable company and have done the responsible thing on those. HOWever, there are dozens of You tube videos depicting carbon fiber components failing without warning. Durian rider has posted quite a few. These are mostly top drawer brands too! Here is one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn29u7GoqPk. I would love to have a bike that light and not worry about hauling ass down a gravel road with a moderate load on washboard. Just too scary for me man. Like Durian says, "CHECK YOUR CARBON STUFF". Be safe fellows.

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    Your alternative to a carbon fiber fork

    I have just learned that Ti Cycles will have their production titanium fork on their website this January. Here are the specs for the fork:
    TI CYCLES PRODUCTION TITANIUM 1.5T 700c/650B TOURING/ADVENTURE FORK
    $460 QR dropout // $520 15mm Thru-Axle
    -- 50mm rake
    -- ISO disc
    -- 1.5" Tapered Crown Race
    -- 300mm 1-1/8" steerer
    -- fender eyelets
    -- lowrider mid-leg eyelets

    and a picture.
    2014 Salsa El Mariachi-img_20141226_142856.jpg

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