Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 42
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: c0nsumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    336

    2013 Salsa Ti No Longer US Made?

    I've been reading all I can about the 2013 Salsa El Mariachi Ti that I ordered, and a couple posts that I came across seemed to indicate that for this upcoming model year Salsa has moved production away from Lynskey to an overseas manufacturer.

    Do any of you know where I can find substantive information on whether or not this is true? I know that there's plenty of great welding done overseas, but I must admit that the US manufacturing of the previous model years was a bit of a selling point for me.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: c0nsumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    336
    I just came across this thread which seems to answer my questions.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: druidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    668
    It has moved away from Lynskey.


    Which puts it on my "want" list.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: c0nsumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    336
    Why's that? I've never seen anything from Lynskey that I disliked, except for one teammate's helix-downtube bike which seems to be needlessly heavy.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: druidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    668
    I've seen (and I mean in person) more cracked/badly formed Lynskey-made Ti frames than all other frames put together. Maybe I was just unlucky in that I worked in a shop that sold a few.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: c0nsumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    336
    Huh, interesting. Thanks.

    Now if the 2013s would only ship sooner...

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    170
    Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have yet to have an issue with an offshore frame. The only thing I've seen that is consistent with American made frames is a much higher price for a "perceived" better value. Quite frankly, I don't see it. Just my opinion though.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: c0nsumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    336
    I think it's less about quality and more about just knowing that one's frame was made domestically. I'd definitely pick the quality product over the brand (read: origin) almost every time, though.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
    Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have yet to have an issue with an offshore frame. The only thing I've seen that is consistent with American made frames is a much higher price for a "perceived" better value. Quite frankly, I don't see it. Just my opinion though.
    This has been my experience also.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    87
    If you take one of the domestically made '12 frames and compare it to an offshore made '13 frame I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Far more tube shaping, cast dropouts instead of lazer-cut, additional butting, nicer finish, the list goes on and on.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    798
    I have heard great things about the new frame and have one on order. I think the reality is that many of the larger manufacturers can incorporate a lot more technology into the frames than the small American builder.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: c0nsumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    I have heard great things about the new frame and have one on order. I think the reality is that many of the larger manufacturers can incorporate a lot more technology into the frames than the small American builder.
    You're from Michigan too, aren't you?

    I'm really looking forward to getting mine. I'm really wishing that I had a geared hard tail 29er for riding this week...

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    798
    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    You're from Michigan too, aren't you?

    I'm really looking forward to getting mine. I'm really wishing that I had a geared hard tail 29er for riding this week...

    I am from Michigan. I have owned a Ti El Mariachi and think this is going to be the best one yet. I am also riding a 29er Full Suspension right now and while a great frame (2013 Superfly 100 aluminum) I prefer the hardtail even though my back does not always.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    45
    Has the price changed with the move to overseas ?

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by lakes road sheep View Post
    Has the price changed with the move to overseas ?
    I think it went up.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: c0nsumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by amadkins View Post
    I think it went up.
    By all accounts it's a better frame, though.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    226
    Well I guess I'm just happy that I was able to get my 2011 U.S. built Ti. What a Fab bike it is! When I got my Flux a few months previously, I thought "wow - this is the best bike I've ever ridden", so the El-Mar Ti must be pretty good if it's the bike that I always want to take out. My bruv and I are off to The Brecon Beacons (Wales, UK) tomorrow for a week's biking. I'm taking the Salsa! (although I may try my brother's Flux just for a comparison LOL)

  18. #18
    get down!
    Reputation: appleSSeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,126
    Sweet that they added a bunch of stuff no one really requested or demanded, moved it overseas, raised the price and people are still happy? Awesome. I'm a Salsa fan, but not buying the reasons why they went overseas. I'm happy to have two made in the US Lynskey frames. One Salsa, one Kona. Both ride amazing. I'm sure the new frames are quality and ride well, but don't give me the marketing BS about this or that. It's most likely about supply/price/profit margins not anything else. I didn't hear anyone complaining about the Lynskey made frames. Well, it rides good, but I sure wish the drop outs were laser cut and the top tube was butted. I'd like to hear that on the trail. I would LOL.
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: c0nsumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    Sweet that they added a bunch of stuff no one really requested or demanded, moved it overseas, raised the price and people are still happy? Awesome. I'm a Salsa fan, but not buying the reasons why they went overseas. I'm happy to have two made in the US Lynskey frames. One Salsa, one Kona. Both ride amazing. I'm sure the new frames are quality and ride well, but don't give me the marketing BS about this or that. It's most likely about supply/price/profit margins not anything else. I didn't hear anyone complaining about the Lynskey made frames. Well, it rides good, but I sure wish the drop outs were laser cut and the top tube was butted. I'd like to hear that on the trail. I would LOL.
    Eh? Salsa added things this year that are exactly what I wanted in a Ti frame and this made me buy it. Top tube cable routing, removing the exposed downtube cables? Check. Swinging dropouts? Check. Tapered head tube? Check. I think a lot of folks feel the same way.

    I've had my eye on a Ti bike for about a year now, but wasn't sure what to get. When the complete El Mariachi Ti was announced with the new frame design and the build kit was almost spot-on what I'd have put together I couldn't pass it up.

  20. #20
    get down!
    Reputation: appleSSeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,126
    Those changes are nice. A good call to consolidate the two similar models, people were definitely requesting those changes. I personally think Alternators should be standard on every model they make.

    Happy they made you happy. Not trying to be a negative Nancy, just some of the reasons seem like marketing ploys, not truely what the customer wants. How many customers would prefer straight gauge, shaped tubing for a price decrease? How many can honestly tell a butted frame from a standard one?
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: c0nsumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    Those changes are nice. A good call to consolidate the two similar models, people were definitely requesting those changes. I personally think Alternators should be standard on every model they make.

    Happy they made you happy. Not trying to be a negative Nancy, just some of the reasons seem like marketing ploys, not truely what the customer wants. How many customers would prefer straight gauge, shaped tubing for a price decrease? How many can honestly tell a butted frame from a standard one?
    I think the weight will be noticeable, yes. Having picked up a friend's Lynskey Pro 29, I'm amazed at how heavy it is. His size small frame with a carbon Lefty and XO-level components weights more than my basic steel El Mariachi. There's a lot of weight in straight tubing, and I think those that are willing to pay for a Ti frame don't mind a little extra to get something that should be noticeably nicer.

  22. #22
    get down!
    Reputation: appleSSeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,126
    No buying the weight argument. No way a basic El Mar weighs less a a Lynskey Pro 29 with same spec. Butting saves how much per frame of equal size?
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  23. #23
    Harmonius Wrench
    Reputation: Guitar Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,073
    I own a Ti Muk, Lynskey made, and I have ridden the new Warbird Ti, and looked over the new El Mar Ti.

    I have also ridden a couple of other Lynskeys in the past.

    The new titanium models feature bending and shaping that Lynskey could not produce for Salsa. Just take one look at a Warbird's chain stays and you'll see exactly what I am talking about. I've never seen a Lynskey with such shaping. I also have been told by Salsa that their new manufacturing partner can butt the titanium in ways that Lynskey was unable to do.

    Price and marketing aside, if the end product can be made better at the foreign factory, that is a reasonable choice to consider if you want to advance the quality of product you put out as a company. If price can be similar, it becomes more attractive.

    Now- I love my Ti Muk. But if it could be made to have better butting profiles, yielding a better ride, shaping to allow for better tire clearances, and a cool tapered head tube, I would likely put my frame up for sale to get the better frame. No matter where it was made, as long as the quality was top notch.

    I like that mine is made in the U.S., but in my opinion, a Lynskey is a hit or miss frame when it comes to ride quality. I've ridden a few that were not all that great, and a couple that were. (Happily, mine is one of the better ones I've tried.) If Salsa can consistently get great quality made frames that ride consistently and are better featured, I'm all for the switch. No matter where it comes from.

  24. #24
    None
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    102
    The reality is that the technology DOES exist in the US. The difference is that the US manufacturers probably can't provide the same features for the same cost as our friends in Taiwan. I am not arguing that the quality and finishing and features of the frames made overseas are not equal to a US frame. They make very nice stuff at a much lower prices (to the manufacturer). But one thing I've noticed is that in spite of the labor rate being about 1/10 of what it is here, the pricing of the frames made overseas is increasing. I own a US made 2011 El Mar Ti and Fargo Ti. I will keep them forever. They are great. It was a HUGE reason that I bought Salsa. Not as nicely finished as some other brands, but the frames do the job and the price was nice.
    Last edited by TheHamster; 11-05-2012 at 09:04 PM.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    180
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    I own a Ti Muk, Lynskey made, and I have ridden the new Warbird Ti, and looked over the new El Mar Ti.

    I have also ridden a couple of other Lynskeys in the past.

    The new titanium models feature bending and shaping that Lynskey could not produce for Salsa. Just take one look at a Warbird's chain stays and you'll see exactly what I am talking about. I've never seen a Lynskey with such shaping. I also have been told by Salsa that their new manufacturing partner can butt the titanium in ways that Lynskey was unable to do.

    Price and marketing aside, if the end product can be made better at the foreign factory, that is a reasonable choice to consider if you want to advance the quality of product you put out as a company. If price can be similar, it becomes more attractive.
    Well said, and I completely agree. But my hope is that Salsa can find or develop a US manufacturing partner to build these great bikes in the future. As foreign wages continue to rise, many top companies are bringing their manufacturing back to the US, though I have not seen as much of this in the bike industry as in others. Perhaps Salsas can be a leader on this front as well.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •