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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Rocky ETSX Cracked Frames Class Action Lawsuit thread

    Well Rocky has turned me from a loyal customer of 8 years to the guy who ended up sitting in a lawyers office documenting frame defects. I have consulted with an attorney and he wants to hear from everyone who has had a cracked ETSX bike. If anyone has ever had the ETSX FAIL while riding please CONTACT ME ASAP and I will pass the legal info down.

    See original thread here:

    Anyone with experience dealing with RM about a Cracked Frame?

    Picked up my original bike back today with no progress after 7 months. I am taking the bike to a 3rd party metallurgy specialist this week to document that the crack is a defect related to manufacturing. At this point me and the attorney have compiled a total of 32 known ETSX cracked frame instances I am sure there are many more.

    Rocky jerked me around and the best they came back with was buy a new Altitude frame from them for $995 I put up my oxygen on craigslist and will fight this hardball.

  2. #2
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    Wow. All this effort.

    As many people have said, and I know from personal experience, Rocky Mountain have excellent and quick warranty resolution. As clearly stated in their policy, all you have to demonstrate is that you're the original owner and produce proof of purchase. Standard practice in every retail sector in North America - The fact that you cannot meet that simple test is entirely your own fault. Get over it, and move on .

    The US has garnered a reputation as a society too ready to litigate, and its citizens not keen to take responsibility for their own actions. You just reinforce this stereotype. Next time, keep the friggin' receipt, problem solved.

    Oh, and I wish Rocky would sell me a new Altitude frame for less than $1k !

  3. #3
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    What he said.

    Your action: FAIL!

  4. #4
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    I understand that you are bummed about the bike, I hate breaking a frame. I just broke my salsa of 5 years and it was just a tick under the warranty period. My bike shop had a copy of my receipt so I was good to go for a replacement.

    However I have dealt with Rocky Mountain as well when my wife bent the rear swingarm triangle on her pipeline which we bought used. They got us a NOS rear triangle and sent it out for cheap and we where happy because she had already ridden the bike for a bunch of years and the replacement keep her going on the bike.

    Aluminum, no matter how it is designed has a limited lifespan. 5 years is a respectable amount of time for a mass produced aluminum frame to be ridden. If you want a more life time frame look at getting a steel bike. They at least can be easily welded up or have tubes replaced by pretty much any competent bike builder. Sure they won't be full suspension in most cases, but they will last for years if not decades. I am still riding a steel frame I bought in 1996. All the aluminum frames I have purchased all have failed.

    I can't see how this is worth your time just to prove a point that wouldn't be a point if you had the original receipt. I would just move on, buy a new bike or the replacement frame from Rocky, selll it and get something that you feel you can trust and don't expect a lifetime of riding if you chose to go aluminum XC style full suspension bike, or aluminum in general.
    Try this: HTFU

  5. #5
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    Guys, not here to argue the original case again it will never end. Posting this on the Rocky forum I don't expect praises as people here are rocky fans (like I was before all of this). Bottom line is that Rocky knows the ETSX line was/is defective and have not taken care of the issue. Everyone that has looked at my bike agreed that its Rockys defect, including the Authorized Rocky dealer. At this point the wheels are turning and we are looking for more people to join the case. Its no more work for me, as the attorneys believe the case is strong enough already with the info we have so they are handling all the research. It will be fairly easy to establish that the frame(s) were defectively manufactured and designed.

    For some of you that argue that this is going too far, please think about the fact that someone could have been seriously injured for life because of the ETSX defects. That's the bottom line, manufacturing negligence.

  6. #6
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    I suspect posting in the Rocky Forum stating that your intention is to sue the company probably won't bring as much sugar as you would like.
    Try this: HTFU

  7. #7
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    rockcrusher, i wont be the one suing anybody i simply presented my facts to an attorney who deals with product liability cases. This is open to anyone who has had a cracked etsx, again please PM me with your info and i will pass it down. Thanks.

  8. #8
    Subject to Whimsy
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    I've fallen off my Rocky, well a bunch of times. Potential issue with the frame design perhaps?
    Maybe you should post this under the 'Beating a Dead Horse' forum.

  9. #9
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    Thanks outrnm. You don't have your original receipt, Rocky Mountain still offers you an fantastic deal on a new frame, but instead you're going to sue Rocky Mountain. I can see the lawyers winning here. I don't see you getting a new frame. But I predict the next time I buy a Rocky Mountain, the price may be a bit higher because of all of this, as any money paid for Rocky Mountain's lawyers to fight your lawyers has to come somewhere. Maybe it will come out of their R+D budget, and their next generation of bikes won't be quite as stellar as their current offerings.

    So thanks outrnm for thinking selfishly and making me pay more for my next bike so you can get some kind of gratification from taking a bike company to court.

  10. #10
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    oh no!!!! I am new to Rockys They are relatively new in Oz - just bought a Slayer 70 ...any probs with these? worried

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by outrnm View Post
    rockcrusher, i wont be the one suing anybody i simply presented my facts to an attorney who deals with product liability cases. This is open to anyone who has had a cracked etsx, again please PM me with your info and i will pass it down. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetness View Post
    Thanks outrnm. You don't have your original receipt, Rocky Mountain still offers you an fantastic deal on a new frame, but instead you're going to sue Rocky Mountain. I can see the lawyers winning here. I don't see you getting a new frame. But I predict the next time I buy a Rocky Mountain, the price may be a bit higher because of all of this, as any money paid for Rocky Mountain's lawyers to fight your lawyers has to come somewhere. Maybe it will come out of their R+D budget, and their next generation of bikes won't be quite as stellar as their current offerings.

    So thanks outrnm for thinking selfishly and making me pay more for my next bike so you can get some kind of gratification from taking a bike company to court.
    I think you are confused. Outrnm is only gathering info for a class action product liability case. That never leads to suing. Your prices are sure to be fine. /sarcasm

    in case you want to know that a product liability case will lead to it is this: Class action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Luckily Canada doesn't subscribe to the same Product Liability process as the US does. Worst case scenario is that Rocky pulls out of the american market or goes bankrupt depending on the level of penalty that is handed out by the american judicial system.
    Try this: HTFU

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetness View Post
    Thanks outrnm. You don't have your original receipt, Rocky Mountain still offers you an fantastic deal on a new frame, but instead you're going to sue Rocky Mountain. I can see the lawyers winning here. I don't see you getting a new frame. But I predict the next time I buy a Rocky Mountain, the price may be a bit higher because of all of this, as any money paid for Rocky Mountain's lawyers to fight your lawyers has to come somewhere. Maybe it will come out of their R+D budget, and their next generation of bikes won't be quite as stellar as their current offerings.

    So thanks outrnm for thinking selfishly and making me pay more for my next bike so you can get some kind of gratification from taking a bike company to court.

    Just to clear the timeline here and the so called "fantastic deal"

    1) Found crack in frame when i read all the horror stories online and decided to inspect the bike myself

    2) spent close to a month trying to contact Rocky directly and trying to find an authorized Rocky dealer who can handle the warranty process. I live in a city of over a million of people and it has 6 "listed" rocky dealers first 4 dont do business with Rocky anylonger and the other 2 are phasing Rocky out and dont stock Rocky anything anymore.... hmmmmm

    3) One dealer finally agrees to handle the process, i drop the bike off get photos etc.. Month goes by i get a "looks like Rocky will take care of you" message now we need to wait for new replacement frame. From the start i made it clear i dont want anything for free, a reasonable charge ($300-$400) is fine with me or give me some other used frame instead to get me back on the trails.

    4) Total of 6 months go by with my bike chilling at the shop and Rocky giving me the shaft $995 Altitude frame, are you kidding me? They are $750 on clearance!

    Rocky screwed up with the ETSX design, and screwed up again with not doing a recall and screwed up again with not taking care of loyal customers. They are hiding behind THEIR contract fine print to not warranty a product thats been faulty from the start. Again NOT an isolated case the sheer number of cracked ETSX frames is staggering. If they go bankrupt I could care less I don't have much to gain from this, maybe I will see a credit of cost of a new frame in a few years when all the legal stuff is done if they decide to file. I cant say much more but (assuming) there is an injury(s) in there from a broken etsx frame and that's kind of the big deal, not my stupid cracked etsx (hint hint).

  13. #13
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    I feel compelled to react because RMB has always provided for me. I've had a couple of distributor issues but those were typical euro things and nothing to do wth RMB.

    What kinda bugs me is that you say this is about people getting injured from ETSX frames failing under them. In all 32 documented case (a staggering number surely ) you have not found a single injury, so this is pure conjecture on your part.

    *Everything* except you final statement has been about you and what you wanted and didn't get. When RMB "hides behind fine print" you are merely turning around the fact that you haven't provided them with the proof of purchase required. Even then, while under zero obligation to do so, RMB have offered you a 'deal'. While you may righfully argue it's not much of a deal, you assertion they have done nothing is completely false.

    Please, explain to me again how this is not about getting your own back?

  14. #14
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    If they done nothing wrong i guess they have nothing to worry about

    eric, 32 cases in 1 month of just people posting online that the law firm was able to contact, actual number much higher as full discovery will take year(s). lets wait 6 more months and if we discover that 50% or more of all manufactured ETSX frames failed is that still acceptable?

  15. #15
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    You will never be able to determine the percentage of frames that failed unless you source every frame ever made and sold. But I guess you don't have to be a genius that the ETS-X failed more then other frames, maybe in the 10-20% range.

    The frames fail in a controlled way (seattube cracks), you yourself were able to ride the bike with the failure so there's no immediate health risk or risk for serious injury. There is no need for a recall of all bikes if only 10% of them fail in a sime-controlled way.

    You should do some soulsearching and admit the lawsuit is just an outlet of your frustration that you lost the receipt. Something that cannot be blamed on RM. I won't say that I wouldn't be bummed, but I think I would be man enough to face the fact that it is my own fault and not try to sue the manufacturer for their policy.

  16. #16
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    Hi outrnm,

    I seriously don't think they have done anything wrong, no. The ETSX design was flawed but sh!t happens - RMB made running changes to try and correct the problem. Fatigue is VERY hard to predict (believe me - it's my field of work) and RMB very clearly didn't willingly put a frame prone to cracking on the market. If that was their intention, they would never have bothered with re-designs and upgrades to begin with. Any failed frame or warranty case that ends up on the internet is bad press, after all.

    I think the above explains why there was never a recall made. I don't think you'd ever get decent statistics for this, but the failure rates seem to vary between model years, the earliest obviously being the poorest. If the guys discovering cracks in their older frames are getting a newer ETSX (which is redesigned and should last) to replace it, why make a recall? The only reason - in my mind - to do this is if a product can acutely become unsafe....

    ... Which is simply not the case. Fatigue cracks initiate and grow, and in the case of bike frame tubing they don't grow overnight. With regular inspection (as recommended in any booklet you are given with a frame/bike purchase) you will always spot a crack before is has propagated to the size that failure may occur at any instant. Even a frame that cracks completely though a seat- or downtube will become noticeably flexy before it literally falls apart. I've seen and done this a couple of times If RMB felt you were in imminent danger a recall would certainly have been issued - there have been enough posted in the past.

    Also, had there been a recall you still would have had the same issue: no sales receipt, so for all RMB/the distributor knew you could have been the 3rd owner who bought the frame off a guy who hucked his ETSX off the garage roof on a daily basis. I admit it would be better if warranties were 'no questions asked', but this is rarely the case in the bike biz.

    My beef with the whole issue is that you have come across pretty ticked off from the outset (i.e. post #1 in the previous thread, when it wasn't warranted). Class action is now your way of getting your own back. It serves no purpose in forcing RMB to make us safer products, as RMB has pretty bad press for every time an ETSX failure was documented online anyway. And as I said earlier: their interest in a safe product has been demonstrated by the improvements made along the course of the ETSX model years. Furthermore, to my knowledge nobody was ever hurt by an ETSX failing, either, so any damages awarded by an a$$hat jury would be punitive and serve only as enrichment to you, co-plaintiffs and a$$hat lawyers who are all to willing. IMHO thats simply immoral.

    I'll admit I probably wouldn't be too happy in the same situation. In fact, I had something very similar occur with a sponsor. We had an 80% failure rate of our frames within 3 months. One frame is still doing absolutely fine as far as I know; the late-season production frames were improved with an extra gusset. No recall was ever made, yet I know of not one incident of a frame cracking through, much less failing to the point somebody was injured.

    I sincerely hope you are back on the trails riding ASAP, and RMB is never even served as much as a notice.

  17. #17
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    Went to the Darkside should be here any day! Was torn between FSR and the Yeti but there is a Specialized dealer on every street corner here, so that was the selling point. Back on the trails after 7 months of nothing.


  18. #18
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    Hope it doesn't crack and that you keep your receipt....

  19. #19
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    Also, look at the rear brake cable, that looks really taut to me. Better to not have those acute angles in your brakecable.

  20. #20
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    by bro in oregon broke his ets-x frame on the seattube. it was a 2003 model year i think. i rode a 2002 until fall of 2011 when i sold it for $750. pretty amazing huh? abused it totally. i'm not sure why some fail and others don't. but i always worried about that catastrophic failure during a big descent. my buddy had his happen on a mellow fireroad. he thought "wow this rear shock feels supple today!" when he looked down his frame had completely severed near the bb, pogoing up and down. rmb mailed him a new frame stat, with beefed up seattube. no hassle. i'd be curous? what year is your frame?

  21. #21
    Just roll it......
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    So, let's be clear.

    The bike is a model year 2005 and you bought it in 2007, rode for 5 years and then found a crack in 2012 and now you're starting a class action lawsuit? For a bike that is out of warranty and you can't even prove that you are the original owner? WOW.

    Your comment in the original thread says it all:
    "I donít see the reasoning behind "give us a receipt proving your purchased it here etc" from Rocky other than for the very fact of finding a reason to deny warranty."

    Well, dear sir, the majority of manufacturers only warranty for the original buyer. If you don't have the receipt and the dealer you bought it from doesn't have a copy, then anything that RMB is offering you is a bonus, IMO. Let's hypothetically say that you aren't the original owner....you and RMB have no idea what the original buyer would've put the bike through.

    Even if you bought this bike brand-spanking-new, it was 2 year old model and sitting in a shop's back room taking up space. So. you should at least be honest that you got this bike at a deep discount to get it off their showroom floor/inventory. If you didn't get it at a massive discount, then you're an even bigger fool than this thread makes you seem.

    All I can say is: suck it up, buttercup.

    EB

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by outrnm View Post
    Looks like a frame failure without a receipt to me.

  23. #23
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    I really like the reflectors on the wheels.

  24. #24
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    I suppose the hostility in this thread is understandable, as everybody here is a Rocky Mountain supporter, but some of what has been said doesn't seem right to me.

    1. it's fundamental to a free society that the little guy has the right to take legal action against the big guy, and if the little guy wins then his legal action was justified

    2. quoting the guy the warranty and what other makers have in their warranties isn't the point - maybe your legal rights are not limited to what it says in the warranty, and maybe you could win damages over and above the warranty if you could prove negligence by the manufacturer. I would guess that would be difficult in this case, because RM's standards are as high as any in the industry, but if he could prove it, then his legal action would be justified.

    3. the fact that the cracks are not likely to be catastrophic is relevant, but so is the fact that all ETCX owners are harmed by this issue, even if their bike doesn't fail, because its second-hand value is blighted. We can't pretend this is Rocky's finest hour.

    4. I'm not sure that the offer of a frame for $995 was quite enough - by making any offer, RM were implicitly accepting that they were in the wrong, and yet it wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturing cost of that frame was less than $995. If so they were seeking to make further profit out of the guy even in compensating him. They would be in a stronger position if they had offered a frame at manufacturing cost minus n%, and I think that's what they should have done.

    At the end of the day, Rocky is a top class company with prices to match. They must have been very upset themselves about this whole episode, but I have a sense that they haven't quite lived up to their own high standards in putting it right.

    This guy may lose his case, but a countryman of mine once said 'I may not agree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it.'

  25. #25
    Just roll it......
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyinhove View Post
    I suppose the hostility in this thread is understandable, as everybody here is a Rocky Mountain supporter, but some of what has been said doesn't seem right to me.
    Actually, we have several Transitions, a Knolly and a couple Treks in our garage. I don't own a Rocky, but I know a decent crash replacement offer when I see one. When a bike is out of warranty and when the owner (or dealer the owner purchased from) can't present a receipt, then ANY offer from a company provides is a bonus for that consumer. They're not obligated to do anything for this guy.

    You know when you hear a story and certain vital elements are missing , you've gotta ask yourself what's the reality here? That's what I'm getting at.

    EB

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