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Need some input on Vertex vs the Flash im on now.

2K views 12 replies 5 participants last post by  machine4321 
#1 ·
Looking to get away from my Cannondale/lefty. Getting a bit tired of no local support/needing special tools to service.

I am 6ft with long legs and long arms. The cannondale (Large)has a slightly longer Top Tube Which I think I like due to my arms. I am on the verge of needing a setback post on my flash.

I dont want to feel to cramped up but the prices are great and I see a lot of them being ridden by a lot of top class racer, and they all have good things to say. The flash is really the only bike I have alot of seat time in, but as I ride other bikes I am able to tell the small differences.
I doubt I will be able to find a vertex to ride this time of year. Last year they didnt have a vertex to ride at the demo day.

What really got me looking into them was the slacker HA. I rode a scott scale RC and found it a bit to slack and slow in the steering department. The vertex is right in the middle of the two bikes (flash is 71.5 I think)

The vertex also has shorter chainstays (10mm) and that would be a bouns. Not to mention the 12mm rear and 15mm front.

Any one have any direct comparos of the two_Or even experience with the vertex.

Thanks
 
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#2 ·
I have never ridden a Dale mtb so I can't compare, but I do have a Vertex. First thing is size I'm 5'10 and ride a Large so if I was you, you need to be looking at an XL frame, considering your long arms. To fit on to a large frame you would need to get a 400mm + post and an excessively long stem (which will slow the steering down waaay too much). As you have indicated they have a reasonably short chainstays which make the bike easy to flick and change direction, easy to manual over obsticles as well. The long seat post in the narrow 27.2 mm diameter gives it a nice plush compliant feel and the frame overall is stiff enough for my whippet body. The front end is relatively short and as mentioned you suggest you have longish arms? you definitely need to ride one to make sure it's going to fit you comfortably.

I really like my Vertex have no intention of swapping to another brand as I find the Rockys both the Vertex and Element fantastic bikes that work really well in their intended XC duties

hope that helps
Quiggs
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the reply. The XL seems to big going on numbers alone but the thought has crossed my mind.

The top tube on my dale is 622mm and the rock is 615. On paper only 7mm, Is that a noticable difference you think?

Same wheel base aswell. I guess this comes down to sitting on one. Hard to find in my area
 
#5 ·
Friend of mine is 6'1" with long legs but shorter arms & torso, he rides a large Vertex which fits him fine. The seat does look high to me since I'm not used to seeing XC race bikes, on all my bikes the seat is level with the handlebars while his seat is a 2-3" higher than the bars. His bike fits me fine as well once the seat is dropped a couple inches, I'm 5'11" with normal legs & torso and long arms.
 
#7 ·
hi I'm, 5 9 and am running a medium with 90mm stem which fits me perfectly.(for a year now)
I like the short head tube and the slightly raised bottom bracket which allows me to get my desired drop quite easily (-10° stem).

I never look at TT lenghts anymore on 29 hardtails because of the kink in the seat tube you can really alter the reach without changing TT lenght.
I see that the reach of a L Cannon is within 2 mm of a L Vertex. so up to you to pick an L if the current L works

I was looking for the highball first (prefer the bsa bottombracket over anything) but fell between sizes.

rocky is really great in handling (I used to have an sworks 29er for 1.5 years and rode a scale 29er for 6 months as well). definately the best handling of the 3. I thought the scale was too lazy in short turns. no problems with traction either (which is sometimes associated with shorter stays)
it's also very comfy (like the scale) and has quite good tire clearance.

from german testing it seems the frame is also tremendously stiff and mine came in at 1040grams

for maintenance : you will definately get less creaking than on your BB30 frame. (I'm never buying on of those again , ever)
just invest in a good bottombracket. if you run a shimano crank, the xtr pressfit BB gives me great results and is cheap and light. BB94 something is the reference.
if you run sram cranks, go King or Hope BB.
for the headset I did need to replace the bottom bearing quickly (Cane creek 40 replaced by cane creek 110) after some very wet rides.
pay attention to your cabling when building the frame, will make or brake your shifting, but once in place, perfect

the only complaint I have is that on a medium it is tricky to carry 2 bottles as the inner triangle is really small. but that will not be an issue for you,
bought some arundel cages and those fit, my king cages now reside on my roadbike :-(
that is all, the rest is all super positive.

never rode a flash, sorry.
 
#8 ·
This didnt make it to my email. Great info, thanks. Turns out there is a large '12 990 for sale in my town and hes asking 2k for it. Seems like a good price. Down side For me is I will be giving up my lifetime warranty on my frame.

Since asking this question I have really started to enjoy my flash. just built up new wheels aswell. I will still look into the vertex and if it feels like "the one" I will consider.
 
#10 ·
The '12 I looked at was ridden by a shimano sponsored rider so it had alot oc components that I would want to swap out. This didnt seem like a good option. I didnt want to waste the sellers time with going for a ride as I wasnt interested in it. haviong a seat on it was nice and the large will fit me fine. I am just waiting on a replacement frame for my flash and hopefully I can get it sold asap and have a vertex before I go to NC in march.
 
#11 ·
Wife has informed me that it is not the best time for a new bike....the only way to make it happen is a 1 to 1 sale of my flash and that would put me in the 2014 950rsl on clearout. A nice bike but almost a 5 pound increase. Not the best buy for me. IF I could come up with 1600 extra I could grab a 13 999 but I doubt thats going to happen. Maybe see what next year brings.
 
#13 ·
So I wanted to update on how this bike is compared to me Flash 29er.

After reading many reviews all seemed to be positive, until I read this one http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/29er-cf-hts-part-1-discussion-conclusions-874160.html. Had me scratching my head as it made it sound like a death trap(here is part 2 as well http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/29er-cf-hts-part-2-individual-reviews-874163.html)

Thankfully I saw through the whole "fast in the parking lot" deal and ordered it with out riding one.

Needless to say the bike is incredible! After I built it up and got the 1x10 going I took it for an easy ride. I have no issues at all with the low speed handling on this bike as the above review, and a few other individuals have said. Although at first I felt no difference fromn my flash at all. That was, until I put the hammer down. The nimbleness that has been talked about suddenly became very evident as I was able to "flick" through corners like I was on a much smaller bike. The frame compliance was just as good as my flash and over all weight ended up very close (still have some weight to trim on the vertex though). I was worried about the sizing but after jumping on the bike it felt "right" almost instantly. There is a few areas that were not up to par with the flash.

I notice no stiffness difference in turning between the two forks. I do, how ever, notice the for and aft stiffness is much better on the lefty(under braking ect) Love having the lockout but did have to bleed it right out of the box and found a few extra bubbles in it a week later, all good since!

The 12x142 is noticeable over the flash QR and its nice to have common wheels for the first time.

I have one race on the bike and have been very happy with it. I have already beaten some PR's and its early season vs setting those late last season on the flash. I chalk it up to being able throw the bike around a lot easier with the shorter stays. Being able to air over roots is a lot easier now. I still cant manual to save my life but the wheels are a lot easier on the vertex :) Climbing traction is very good and the front end doesnt wander at all on tight switchback climbs. Ive had to get use to leaning the bike a bit more then the flash but over all I am a tad faster on the vertex.

Pros:
Great frame/compliance
Frame Geo feels great(maybe A tad slacker would be ok )
Great parts spec (13' 999)
GXP BB (dont think the bb30 is on par)
Good weight to start

Cons
Fork: The lefty is by far the smoother fork here. the xx WC is very stiff on small bump(has gotten better to a point where I like the way it feels now) but the lefty is hard to touch.
Brakes: well they are avids, they feel fine but gobble like crazy and cause the fork to stutter back and forth under heavy braking, but I have some plans to try to live with them as I love how clean the bars are with the matchmaker.

All in all I am very happy with this bike. The flash is no slowch mind you, It was just time for a change.
 
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