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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Anyone with experience dealing with RM about a Cracked Frame?

    Well sure enough my ETSX-50 developed a crack like they all do, right on the bottom of the top tube, hairline crack hided right along the weld seam. I took the the bike to my local RM dealer and itís been almost 3 month now and there has been no progress. The shop say RM hasnít given them a definite answer, and RM doesnít have a direct number so I canít call them. I found out about the crack doing routine maintenance, if(when) the tube cracks it would be absolutely disastrous as the bike would break in half. Anyone with any tips on how to deal with this? Bike was purchased in 2007, itís a late 2005. Pretty disappointed with $3000 bike customer service so far. Seems like nobody wants to take the blame and the bike is just sitting at the dealer in limbo.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Send them an email at info@bike.com

    Are you the original owner with the bill of sale? It would be out of warranty unless you have your bill of sale dated 2007.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

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    Ok I will try the email thanks rockyuphill.

    Well, itís a well known and documented issue thatís a manufacturing defect as all ETSX frames crack without any abuse. This crack has been there for years I am sure I never knew about it until I read a few posts about the issue and went and inspected my frame and sure enough... The crack is right where the top tube meets the headtube underneath following the weld. When the dealer first contacted Rocky they said looks like they will warranty it. I canít find the original receipt (who keeps receipts from 5 years back?). I got so much bike gear if I kept all my receipts I would need a spare room. Itís been a few more months and no progress. I hope rocky makes good on this, as after all these months if they decide to not honor the frame and the bike fails in that spot and causes an injury/death after its been documented with them that has giant lawsuit written all over it.

  4. #4
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    Perhaps the dealer you bought it from still has record of your purchase?

    If the cracked ETSX frames were a known issue, then your dealer should've known and contacted you as well.

    I think if you intend on riding the frame knowing now that it's cracked, you're kind of on your own with regard to liability. I think the prudent thing to do is put it aside until you get resolution.

    And in answer to your question about dealing with Rocky on cracked frames, the answer is 'yes' in my case and Rocky took care of everything satisfactorily.

  5. #5
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    My Rocky Mountain dealer warrantied an ETS-X or two. I don't recall the exact time frame since it was a few years ago, but it was less than three months.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


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  6. #6
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    Anytime you continue to use a bike that you've already identified as having a frame failure, you'd be doing so at your own risk. If your dealer hasn't already told you to stop riding it, they should.

    I expect the biggest thing that is slowing it up is some proof of sale date, as it would be outside the 5 year warranty period other than the fact that you apparently bought it as NOS 2 model years later. So they're likely waiting for the dealer or yourself to produce a sales receipt.

    The other complicating factor is that there are no more ETSX frames, so they'd likely offer you an Altitude which is the replacement for the ETSX, but it uses a different seatpost, front derailleur and fork.

    10+ years of bike and bike parts receipts... all the way back to the purchase of 2000 Rocky Vertex frame
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone with experience dealing with RM about a Cracked Frame?-2012_0113new0001-1.jpg  

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  7. #7
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    Guys, the bike has been at the dealer from day 1, its just sitting in the back of their shop I donít have it. Of course I am not suicidal no way am I getting on that thing, if it breaks going down 20mph in a rock garden ER is a guarantee.

    I donít see the reasoning behind "give us a receipt proving your purchased it here etc" from Rocky other than for the very fact of finding a reason to deny warranty. But it was purchased from a authorized shop as a NOS/showroom bike. Itís a well known defect a recall should have been made. Everything else is semantics. I work in the auto industry and when an auto manufacturer screws up and makes a defective product that puts people at risk they recall everything and cover their butts, regardless if you purchased the car new or not. Even if itís outside the warranty any good company will have a "goodwill" program when it comes to safety. I am sure Rocky will make everything right and I loved that ETSX it rode like a dream just frustrated with not having a bike for 3 months! It was 55 and sunny today the trails are looking awesome and I am stuck in the house. I donít have a backup trail bike so I am stuck riding my road bike. Please Rocky hurry up !

  8. #8
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    In defence of Rocky Mountain, but not necessarily the ETSX, I warranteed my original 2003 ETSX frame when it broke in 2006 with a crack on the shock mount/seat stay.

    I know that was years ago, but GOOD service tends to stick in your mind. I went through my dealer, with my original receipt, and had a new front triangle (the updated version) within ten days. Yes it helps that i'm in Vancouver a spit away from RM HQ, and the frame was still in production. As a bonus, I had asked for, and offered to pay for the updated fittings for the rear suspension linkages, and RM threw those in for free.

    That kind of service, from both RM and my dealer, makes an impression, and I now ride a 2011 Slayer. Oh, and I still have the receipt for my 1987 Ritchey Ascent !!

  9. #9
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    When ever you buy a new bike, you always should keep the original receipt because of warranty work or in case it gets stolen. It's a piece of paper, how much space does it take up.
    I had an original ETSX-50 that broke in 06 and was replaced with an ETSX- 90 Scandium, no questions asked, but then I had the original bill of sale.
    Now get this. I bought an 94 Thunderbolt way back when and after all of those years it developed a crack in the down tube. In case you are wondering, the Thunderbolt was what you could say were the last filet-brazed frames made in house at Rocky. This bike came with a rigid fork and I raced this bike and I went every where on this bike plus it was my commuter bike for several years until the frame cracked. I had called Rocky a few times in the past because I was having True North repaint it twice and then add disk brake mounts. They said it was fine and this work would not void the warranty because they knew of Hugh's workmanship.
    Since I had no desire to get rid of the frame, it just sat in my workshop. Then I thought I should see what Rocky would do as far as warranty work, since they used to have a life-time warranty of steel frames.
    I called the shop where the bike was purchased and they wanted three photo's. A photo of the crack, a photo of the serial number which is #002 and a copy of the original bill of sale. They called back in a week and very very excited. They said they wanted the frame, fork and original Raceface headset.
    I got a call before Christmas that the frame and fork was ready for pickup. When I got to the bike shop, they were really excited. Mind you they could of been sh*tting me in what Rocky said, but they told me the frame was welded in 1993 (I figured it was a 94), and that this was the oldest warranty that Rocky Mountain had ever done.
    They also knew that the Thunderbolts were very rare and that it was being mounted on their wall. You can imagine I was beaming about all of this. Now it was time to open the box. Of course I knew that there would be no custom welded steel frame and I did not want a aluminum frame and I sure did not wish for carbon-fibre. You can bet with carbon fibre there would be a new bottom bracket or head set standard coming out every two months.
    What Rocky did was take a 96 Hammer and custom painted it the way my Thunderbolt was painted,m a Marzocchi Fork and they threw in a FSA headset to be replaced with a Chris King. No more bad mouthing Rocky.
    So remember keep your receipts.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone with experience dealing with RM about a Cracked Frame?-imgp5689.jpg  

    Anyone with experience dealing with RM about a Cracked Frame?-thunderbolt-2-4-.jpg  


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowser07 View Post
    What Rocky did was take a 96 Hammer and custom painted it the way my Thunderbolt was painted,m a Marzocchi Fork and they threw in a FSA headset to be replaced with a Chris King. No more bad mouthing Rocky.
    So remember keep your receipts.
    Wow, that's an insanely cool story.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


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  11. #11
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    Got a reply from Rocky, not exactly a smooth process like I expected. The lost receipt seems to be the issue. They made the bike, they made it faulty and I am not liking the fact that they are trying to get out of the warranty with semantics. Will keep trying with them and the store but my Attorney (thank God for prepaid lagal) is looking into it regardless if they come back with a no. I got the etsx and a solo and owned a vertex, been supporting them for a long time.

    -Vlad

  12. #12
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    The warranty is a contract between the builder and the buyer, and they don't ask an awful lot of the buyer, other than keeping a proof of purchase receipt to verify that you're actually part of the contract, then they warranty the frame to the original owner for 5 years.

    Without the receipt you could have snagged a dead frame from someone who couldn't get a warranty because a 2005 frame is already 2 years out of warranty. Ownership of a broken frame doesn't demonstrate that you're the original owner, just the current owner.

    Some ETSX frames broke, but many more didn't, so just because you bought an ETS-X doesn't mean your frame will definitely break. I've owned three ETS-X's: a 2004 ETS-X70, a 2007 ETS-X70 and a 2007 ETS-X Team Scandium. I rode them all and sold them after a few years of use, and all three have gone to new homes and they're still working fine.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  13. #13
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    Ruckyuphill, what exactly is a "dead frame"? Is it a different frame that Rocky made from the rest of the ETSX ones at a different factory? Maybe on a Monday instead of Friday? Are there "good" etsx frames and "dead" etsx frames? So whatís Rocky really telling their customers is we make the very best flagship $3000 bike and it should last you 5 years, after than your own your own and expect the thing to crack on you.

    The way I see it its very simple. Rocky makes the frame; frame is either good or defective. In the case of ETSX line there has been a huge number of defective frames. Rocky sells the frame to their dealers and distributors, Rocky gets paid. Some guy drops his hard earned money on a crazy expensive bike and all is well, until.......... crack. Now, a stand up company (who already knows about the frame issue) can either fix the issue with a new frame or try to get out of it with semantics and contract fine print. Oh must of been one of those 'gray market bikes" or maybe a "demo" bike. Oh you bought it from your friend? Well thatís not part of our contract........ Come on man, we all know the frame is defective who cares what the details are. there are companies that will stand behind their products and companies who wonít.

    What made G Loomis fishing rods the most successful company in the world? Are they the best, no they have the best warranty in the business they started the "no questions asked" policy 20 years ago. If a rod breaks you get a new one doesnít matter if your original owner or not. These are $400 rods mind you. Made me a customer for life, I own 17 Loomis rods and they have the highest resale value because everyone knows that Loomis stands behind their product 100% and wonít give you a runaround and ask you for receipts. Same with surefire lights, same with benchmade knives, same with Patagonia gear, same with Simms jackets and the list goes on. Companies who donít stand behind their stuff donít last in the long term itís been proven. Of course I am only talking about actual defects and not crashes/abuse/etc

    As far as bike companies I know Specialized offers an unbeatable lifetime warranty and depending on how this case with Rocky playís out I might be switching. I am optimistic and sure would hate to leave Rocky behind as I believe their bikes are the best.

  14. #14
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    Smile

    As other folks have demonstrated, it isn't very difficult in keeping track of your receipts and purchases.

    Perhaps you should consider having your attorney research and purchase your next bike for you.
    Maybe he'll ride it for you too.

  15. #15
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    Specialized is not perfect either. They are also under no obligation to replace a frame without proof of purchase.

    Post your warranty & crash replacement experience with Specialzed!
    Last edited by rkj__; 01-18-2012 at 05:45 PM.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


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  16. #16
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    That link shows a specialized from 1998, i wouldnt even try to get something like that replaced. This rocky is 2005 and was purchased in 2007, i discovered the crack in 2011. Rocky support has been less than helpful so far, sounds like they could care less really. All because of a lost receipt.

  17. #17
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    Rocky isn't cheating you out of your warranty claim because of semantics. You lost the receipt and thus proof of original owner. Rocky only warrants defects for the first owner. Almost all bike manufacturers do. What do you think the 'limited' means in the limited lifetime warranty of Specialized. You have to be the first owner. If you don't have proof, is that Rocky's fault? You agreed with the warranty terms when you bought the bike. The only other party that could supply proof is the dealer where you bought the bike, but I doubt they keep track of purchases for this long.

    You could also look at your bank or credit card records, maybe you can find proof of purchase in those. I suppose Rocky only want's to know the exact date of purchase. It's worth a shot.

  18. #18
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    Rocky is an awesome company to deal with regarding 'warranty' issues. You want warranty on a 7 year old frame and you don't have a receipt? Talk to them nicely and maybe you can get a crash replacement price on a new frame. Be nice!!

    I'm surprised you think not having a receipt is a nonissue.

  19. #19
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    Saddle Up,

    In this case yes i believe it to be semantics. If Rocky would have designed and built the ETSX correctly i would be rolling right along with a smile on my face and this thread would have never happened. This bike has seen easy XC trails all its life, its in superb shape. Rocky put a defective product on the market and the failures have been well documented. If i would have not read the other threads i would have not discovered the crack. That crack has been there a long time and is just getting bigger. Then who knows, a few more years down the road the bike breaks in half on me. I take that pretty seriously. I am not familiar with any other manufacturer that has a widespread defect such as the ETSX line, can someone point me to one? I ride with about a dozen buddies who know other people etc, and in past few years have only heard of a few warranty claims, one was Yeti 575 that my buddy took off a big tabletop and cracked the frame. I would say he is on his own there, when you put jumps and such in the equation anything will break. Yeti took care of him no questions asked (don't know if he had reciept or not). The other was a 2005 stumpy FSR that developed a creak so the local dealer got a new 2010 frame for like a $100 difference and the guy purchased the bike used. Needless to say they are both riding Yeti and Specialized still.

    I understand that this is a Rocky board... and we all love our Rocky bikes but if you guys are ok with a manufacturer putting out a defective product in huge numbers and then not really standing behind it then good luck when you have an issue. I am now known as "Broken Rocky" amongst the guys i ride with and one buddy gave me a full face helmet and a roll of ductape as a joke for Christmas, pretty funny.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by outrnm View Post
    I am not familiar with any other manufacturer that has a widespread defect such as the ETSX line, can someone point me to one?
    Gary Fisher's hardtails were not holding up well at all around 2007-2008. There were many failures at the weld between the top tube and the seat tube.

    Fisher 29er frame issue

    It sounds like Fisher did a great job of warrantying frames (original owner only), but not so great of a job actually improving the product in the short term.


    Niner had such a problem with their JET 9 frame, that they were actually forced to recall them.

    Niner official - Jet 9 safety recall

    They did their best to take care of their customers as well, and after some time, came out with an improved design.
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  21. #21
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    rkj__, thanks for the links very interesting stuff. That first link has an example of LBS actually finding the crack in a fisher and doing everything and the guy was up and running in 4 weeks. In my case i searched for Rocky dealers in my area and started calling, first 3 shops said they do not stock or deal with Rocky any longer. Out of of 10 listed dealers only 2 were still active with Rocky and i went with the bigger one. So the bike has been sitting there for 3 months and i am getting the runaround. They are nice guys and sounds like they are fellow riders but its frusterating i missed the end of a great riding season (over here in the PNW we ride year around) this whole time thinking we are waiting on Rocky to send a new frame when it turns out a decision hasn't even been made! Just spend close to a grand on upgrades on the bike as well (new wheelset, new brakes, new everything but frame and shock pretty much) and haven't been able to ride.

    I did all the reading i could online also in the past 3 days and got up to speed what the industry is doing. Called a few local shops that sell all the big names

    Looks like the following guys are doing lifetime: Specialized, Lynskey, Trek, Kona, salsa, Redline, Cannondale, Zinn, Jamis, Giant

    3-5 year, Niner, Turner, Santa Cruz, Intense, Ellsworth, Yeti

    Guy at the shop said Specialized Yeti and Trek have been the best, most cases they dont care if your first or 10th owner and no reciept is needed as long as the they deem the failed area as manufacturing problem (grey area here) basically if its a weld they will warranty it, if its due to a dent/scratch/crash it gets more complex. Giant apparently also has a awesome warranty and sales guy #2 said they have never had an issue (who knows he is a sales guy after all) Giant does not ask for any documentation. SC and Turner are more strict according to same shop. Nobody else has any Rocky experience as most shops dont carry them.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by outrnm View Post
    Giant does not ask for any documentation.
    Last time I got a Giant warrantied (2009) I was asked for my receipt by the LBS person. Now, I'm not sure if that was for Giant's benefit or not, but I had it in hand, so it was not a big deal either way.
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  23. #23
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    Outrnm. Reading your first post you mentioned that you took your bike to your local Rocky Mountain dealer and then mention that your bike is still sitting at the shop, I assume in this same bike shop. The question is if this local Rocky dealer is where you purchased the bike and if not, did you question the people at the shop where you purchased your ETS-X?
    You did not make any reference if you went to the shop where you bought your bike.
    I'm quite sure Rocky would know by the serial number what shop first ordered you bike, and if you went to this shop, and you were a fine upstanding customer they would bend over backwards to make sure your frame got warranted. BUT, you shorted yourself out by not keeping the original bill of sale on a bike that is now seven years old with a five year warranty,and you have owned it for five years.
    It was ironic that you mentioned companies G Loomis and Simms that apparently offer outstanding warranties. The same thing went for Zippo lighters and Eswig hammers.I know of several stories of people buying broken lighters at garage sales, and taking broken hammers at job sites only to get a free replacement and then sell the item.
    I'm quite sure Rocky has experienced this in the past. Just check ebay or Pinkbike and see all of the replacement frames for sale from the various bike manufactures that show up from time to time.
    Lesson learned. Keep your reciepts.

  24. #24
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    bowser07, i moved to PNW from the east coast several years back, bike was purchased from Eastern Mountain which is a big chain with about a dozen stores. I called them, they dont keep anything that far back. I move quite a bit for my job and have lived in NC, Montana, Idaho and Oregon in the past 5 years. Met many great people this way and made lifelong friendships with fellow riders. Most of the moves were in a truck with the bike and most of my stuff in the back lots of stuff got thrown out during each trek. Rocky does not deal directly with the customer and make you go via your shop in my case i dont have a LBS i done business with when it comes to Rocky so i had to find a local one. From their point of view i didnt get the bike from them if anything its a hassle to file a warranty claim.

    Good point on zippo lighters (hey i still got a few) but broken and defective are kind of different things wouldnt you agree? There will always be people who straight up abuse a warranty. A crack in a hidden spot on a weld on a frame is just that, considering that pretty much they (ETSX) all crack. Its not over yet, we shall see how this works out i got to go see what kind of a deal the shop can come to. I dont want anything fancy i dont want a new Altitude frame i would be fine with Rocky giving me some old ETSX display frame i am sure they have in the back of the warehouse someplace.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by outrnm View Post
    A crack in a hidden spot on a weld on a frame is just that, considering that pretty much they (ETSX) all crack. Its not over yet, we shall see how this works out i got to go see what kind of a deal the shop can come to. I dont want anything fancy i dont want a new Altitude frame i would be fine with Rocky giving me some old ETSX display frame i am sure they have in the back of the warehouse someplace.
    There's your basic incorrect assumption, they don't all crack, and they haven't all failed. A small percentage have had frame failures.

    There are no more ETS-X frames to be had since the last of them were produced in 2008, the Altitude frame is what they have been replacing ETS-X warranties with.
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