I was all set to order a Element 970 RSL BC Edition, and then the Altitude 790 MSL came along and I thought I knew exactly what I wanted, and then with no fanfare at all you guys tossed that Instinct 970 in the mix, and it really looks like a bike well suited to the more challenging XC trails on the coast here. Bike Magazine seems to like it a lot.
The only gripe I have about my Element 70 MSL is pedal strikes on some of the humpier and rootier trails here, and it looks like the Instinct with the Ride 9 feature has a lot of options for BB height adjustment, anywhere from 21-40mm of BB drop.
So here's the first of my FAQ's for the Instinct bike
1. What's the nominal zero reference height for the stock 29" wheels to calculate the BB drop?
2. What's the weight for an Instinct 970 in a M or L?
3. The review says chainstays are 452mm, the cut sheet says 445mm, it looks longer in the stays than the Element. Which one is right?
4. When will the Instinct be shipping?
5. From a product development point of view, where does Rocky place the Instinct in comparison to the new Altitude and the Element 970 RSL BC edition. What is the Instinct ideally suited to?
Last edited by rockyuphill; 09-27-2012 at 03:52 PM.
Only part of the spec I question is the selection of Fox 32 instead of 34 for 130mm 29er fork. It would add a little weight to go 34, but well worth it IMO. I guess they are going for a lighter spec on the Instinct as it is placed in the "XC" category rather than "Trail"... differentiating this model from the Altitude by minimizing weight?
I'm very happy with the 34 at 120mm on my 2012 Altitude 970. (once initial stiction was resolved) I may experiment with longer travel on it.
Peter Vallance, Rocky Mountain Bikes Brand Manager: Worldwide, 26 is already becoming a really tough sell. Our MSL killed it for two years in the States. And it’s still a great bike, a totally valid design, but anything under 120mm in 26-inch is moving to 29er sales. Moving forward we will still have a 26-inch-wheel Element, but anything in the 120mm to 150mm range is a 27.5 bike. How that 165mm/170mm bike looks, that’s an open question.
I rallied the **** out of the Instinct at Outerbike, I demo'd the thing 3 times over the weekend because I could not believe what I was riding. This bike is Rocky's sleeper for 2013. The bike is a phenom. I will be racing it in the MSC and BME next season. Lively, active, airs very nicely, flickable, corners are wonderful, lively and set it and forget it ( it holds a line without having jazzercise fore/aft body movement ), responds to mid-turn, mid-apex steering input exceptionally well.
The bike is stellar, hands down my favorite long travel 29er i've ridden. I demo'd the bike in low/slack mode, neutral, and one in between. I can't say enough nice things about the bike. Stiff, and though I did not have a scale, it is well under 30lbs if my 10 years of building bikes is serving me well.
I highly recommend getting on one of these, they have killed it on this one.
That's some great input, on paper that's exactly what the Instinct 970 looks like. Good build kit and good range of geometry.
Originally Posted by rodeoj
I rallied the **** out of the Instinct at Outerbike, I demo'd the thing 3 times over the weekend because I could not believe what I was riding. This bike is Rocky's sleeper for 2013. The bike is a phenom. I will be racing it in the MSC and BME next season. Lively, active, airs very nicely, flickable, corners are wonderful, lively and set it and forget it ( it holds a line without having jazzercise fore/aft body movement ), responds to mid-turn, mid-apex steering input exceptionally well.
The bike is stellar, hands down my favorite long travel 29er i've ridden. I demo'd the bike in low/slack mode, neutral, and one in between. I can't say enough nice things about the bike. Stiff, and though I did not have a scale, it is well under 30lbs if my 10 years of building bikes is serving me well.
I highly recommend getting on one of these, they have killed it on this one.
I rallied the **** out of the Instinct at Outerbike, I demo'd the thing 3 times over the weekend because I could not believe what I was riding. This bike is Rocky's sleeper for 2013. The bike is a phenom. I will be racing it in the MSC and BME next season. Lively, active, airs very nicely, flickable, corners are wonderful, lively and set it and forget it ( it holds a line without having jazzercise fore/aft body movement ), responds to mid-turn, mid-apex steering input exceptionally well.
The bike is stellar, hands down my favorite long travel 29er i've ridden. I demo'd the bike in low/slack mode, neutral, and one in between. I can't say enough nice things about the bike. Stiff, and though I did not have a scale, it is well under 30lbs if my 10 years of building bikes is serving me well.
I highly recommend getting on one of these, they have killed it on this one.
That's great new as I hadn't really heard much about the instinct from Outerbike. Nice you had it 3 times and different settings.
There will be a new Instinct demo bike(s) available at the Oct. 28th NEMBA Wicked Ride Of the East in N. Andover MA.
650B Altitude as well will be there and I will demo both.
On paper Rocky has killed it with these new bikes and I can't wait to give em a spin
This bike has me really excited as well. I think out of all the 2013 bikes from Rocky, this is the one I am most interested to test ride. I think that for the majority of the riding and racing that I do in BC, the 100mm of travel with the 29er Elements is not quite enough. 120mm on my 26er Element seems perfect, and the Instinct comes closest to that.
I'm excited that the head angle is more relaxed than the Element, and the adjust ability just makes it easier to buy; if you find you don't like the relaxed head angle, easy enough to change it. I'd love to see a weight on it too. One concern, and this probably isn't fair as I haven't even seen one, let alone ride one, but the chainstays seem a bit long to me. And I'd prefer carbon!
If the instinct were able to be built sub 25lbs without spending a ton of money, I think it would be the ultimate BC race and XC bike!
This bike has me really excited as well. I think out of all the 2013 bikes from Rocky, this is the one I am most interested to test ride. I think that for the majority of the riding and racing that I do in BC, the 100mm of travel with the 29er Elements is not quite enough. 120mm on my 26er Element seems perfect, and the Instinct comes closest to that.
I'm excited that the head angle is more relaxed than the Element, and the adjust ability just makes it easier to buy; if you find you don't like the relaxed head angle, easy enough to change it. I'd love to see a weight on it too. One concern, and this probably isn't fair as I haven't even seen one, let alone ride one, but the chainstays seem a bit long to me. And I'd prefer carbon!
If the instinct were able to be built sub 25lbs without spending a ton of money, I think it would be the ultimate BC race and XC bike!
Long chainstays? I don't think you're going to find anything shorter on a 29er with 5+ inches of travel.
I rallied the **** out of the Instinct at Outerbike, I demo'd the thing 3 times over the weekend because I could not believe what I was riding. This bike is Rocky's sleeper for 2013. The bike is a phenom. I will be racing it in the MSC and BME next season. Lively, active, airs very nicely, flickable, corners are wonderful, lively and set it and forget it ( it holds a line without having jazzercise fore/aft body movement ), responds to mid-turn, mid-apex steering input exceptionally well.
The bike is stellar, hands down my favorite long travel 29er i've ridden. I demo'd the bike in low/slack mode, neutral, and one in between. I can't say enough nice things about the bike. Stiff, and though I did not have a scale, it is well under 30lbs if my 10 years of building bikes is serving me well.
I highly recommend getting on one of these, they have killed it on this one.
Long chainstays? I don't think you're going to find anything shorter on a 29er with 5+ inches of travel.
The Element 29er has slightly shorter stays, and the Altitude has significantly shorter stays with 27.5inch wheels but also more travel and accommodating larger tires. I wonder if an altitude frame would actually accommodate a 29inch wheel with reduced travel?
I'm sure it's possible to get sub 17 inch stays on a 29er full suspension bike, even if no one is making one yet. Both Chromag and Canfield Bros are building 29er hardtails with very short stays, by welding the seat tube to the down-tube. I'm sure we'll see this eventually with full suspension bikes.
My desire for shorter chainstays is before actually riding one of the new Instincts, and I'm prepared to be wrong!
The Element 29er has slightly shorter stays, and the Altitude has significantly shorter stays with 27.5inch wheels but also more travel and accommodating larger tires. I wonder if an altitude frame would actually accommodate a 29inch wheel with reduced travel?
I'm sure it's possible to get sub 17 inch stays on a 29er full suspension bike, even if no one is making one yet. Both Chromag and Canfield Bros are building 29er hardtails with very short stays, by welding the seat tube to the down-tube. I'm sure we'll see this eventually with full suspension bikes.
My desire for shorter chainstays is before actually riding one of the new Instincts, and I'm prepared to be wrong!
27.5 wheels aren't really half way between 26 and 29. They're closer to 26 so I doubt the Altitude will fit a 29" rear wheel. The shortest stays I know of on a 29er FS is the Devinci Atlas, but it's only 4" rear travel. In the longer travel category, Lenz might have shorter stays than the Instinct but everyone else is longer.
The Element 930/950/970 and 970/990/999 RSL have 445mm (17.5") chainstays
The Instinct 950/970 have 452mm chainstays.
Likely the only way you get 17" chainstays on a 29er bike with more than 80mm of travel would be if it was some kind of linkage suspension like DW/Maestro where the wheel can move up and back instead of in an arc from a pivot near the BB.
The Vertex 950/970/990/999 RSL has a 433mm (17") chainstay and it needs a curved seat tube to clear the rear wheel.
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Originally Posted by rodeoj
