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2013 Instinct FAQs

30K views 103 replies 24 participants last post by  Sweetness 
#1 · (Edited)
Cause I have a lot of them, questions that is.

I was all set to order a Element 970 RSL BC Edition, and then the Altitude 790 MSL came along and I thought I knew exactly what I wanted, and then with no fanfare at all you guys tossed that Instinct 970 in the mix, and it really looks like a bike well suited to the more challenging XC trails on the coast here. Bike Magazine seems to like it a lot.

Rocky Mountain Instinct 970 Trail Bike | Bicycling Magazine

2013 Rocky Mountain Instinct 29er | Mountain Bike Review

The only gripe I have about my Element 70 MSL is pedal strikes on some of the humpier and rootier trails here, and it looks like the Instinct with the Ride 9 feature has a lot of options for BB height adjustment, anywhere from 21-40mm of BB drop.

So here's the first of my FAQ's for the Instinct bike

1. What's the nominal zero reference height for the stock 29" wheels to calculate the BB drop?

2. What's the weight for an Instinct 970 in a M or L?

3. The review says chainstays are 452mm, the cut sheet says 445mm, it looks longer in the stays than the Element. Which one is right?

4. When will the Instinct be shipping?

5. From a product development point of view, where does Rocky place the Instinct in comparison to the new Altitude and the Element 970 RSL BC edition. What is the Instinct ideally suited to?
 

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#39 ·
The Stealth remote hose enters at the very bottom of the post. I was just looking through the Stealth service manual to get an idea of what has to happen to get the post out for service. I haven't tried removing the post to see how much surplus hose is in there, but I'm crossing my fingers that I don't have to find out.
 
#41 ·
Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the instinct. I am interested if it can be used as a genuine all mountain 29er, or if it is just a long legged xc bike, there seems to be a lot of mention of its xc talant in the rocky written material. The geo would suggest that it should be good. My local shop stocks transition and rocky so for me my main choice will be between a covert 29 and the instinct both with a 140mm fork. Can't wait to do some test riding on both. Covert just on looks seems a little more heavy duty but keen to hear your thoughts on the enduro / all mountain powers of the instinct.
 
#42 ·
The Instinct is on my wishlist as well. Hope you can give me more detailed info about how the bike behaves in long climbs. While traveling a lot I only can bring one bike with me. I love technical trails but once in a while I participate in a bikemarathon as well. So I need a bike which covers technical descents (not the real downhill stuff) and brings me to the top of a mountain as easy as possible.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Finally got some saddle time on the Instinct today, it was very wet out there.The very first time getting the bike moving I was thinking "Penny Farthing" looking over the bars at a 29" front wheel, I am always amazed how much bigger that looks. As soon as it's moving that extra wheel size stops being a peculiar feeling.

The standard Conti tires are not confidence inspiring on wet roots, my RaceSport Black Chili versions of the Mountain King 2.2's should be here next week, and then I will feel better about tackling wet trail conditions.

The 70mm stem length makes for a very speedy turn in, that's going to take some getting used to, but I sure can't complain about the handling being sluggish. This bar/stem setup is a 725mm wide bar and 70mm stem, and even though the HTT length is 5mm shorter than my 26" Element, this cockpit feels very comfortable.

With the CTD suspension in the Trail setting the bike feels very plush but not spongy. Even in the D for Descent position, climbing short steep climbs you get a lot of rear suspension movement but it doesn't suck a lot of energy out of going forward, or slacken the bike out too much. I expect that just as with Pro Pedal I will find a Trail suspension setup I like and just leave it that way. It pedals very efficiently in Trail so that must be mostly like Pro Pedal.

Right now it is setup in the default BB drop of 30mm, after I get some time at this setting, I will try it in setting 2 with 20.7mm of BB drop and then at setting 7 for 35mm of BB drop.

Bicycle wheel Bicycle tire Tire Bicycle frame Bicycle wheel rim
 
#46 ·
I picked up a pair of Conti Mountain King 29 x 2.2 ProTection tires today, the RaceSports weren't readily available. I was concerned about the weight but they came in under the spec weight of 750gms each. the pair of new Black Chili tires were only 1425gms and the OEM Mountain King/X-King combo was 1361gms, so not a huge weight penalty. I took the plastic spoke protector off which saved 23gms so a net weight increase of only 41gms for much better wet grip.

I might end up going for some Race King 29x2.2 RaceSport tires in the summer if it looks like it will be a fairly dry riding season. They should be 285gms lighter for the pair.

Now I just need to ride it (without freezing my brass cleats off).
 
#47 ·
More saddle time and it's feeling more familiar. The Mountain King ProTection tires make all the difference on wet and muddy trails. And frankly they roll smoother and quieter on pavement too. The big wheels do tackle roots and rocks with less body English input than a 26" wheel bike.
 

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#48 ·
One crucial bit of info that I've been able to measure, the actual BB height on the Instinct 970 with the MK 29x2.2 tires is 13" with the Ride9 in the standard 30mm drop setting. That's 1/2" higher than the BB height on my Element 70 MSL with MK 26x2.4" tires. I'm looking forward to that increased BB height to eliminate pedal strikes.
 
#53 ·
It actually reminds me a lot of my Slayer SXC on descents. The long front centre dimension with the big wheels and speedy steering keeps it feeling pretty safe in the bumpy descents. I still haven't tinkered with the Ride9 settings, but there's enough range there to get quite a range of feel out of the bike.
 
#55 ·
One thing I noticed on today's ride is that the front end of this bike is glued to the ground, there's no lofting the front wheel onto stuff, or wheelie-ing up onto stuff, so it's good that it rolls over most anything you point it at, riding up or downhill. I was riding some stuff today that I usually have to be mindful on the 26" bike to avoid catching a tire in a hole and I didn't even look at the trail surface today, just rolled over stuff.

In the rain today the Avid brakes sounded like a bag of stone gerbils in a rock crusher. I think a set of XT brakes will be in the pipeline soon.
 
#56 ·
That is the trait(s) of the 29'ers I've ridden. The steamroller effect or point and shoot right over things. Personally it's one of the things I don't like about them even though it is another way to skin a cat. Also why newbies find 29'ers easier to ride. Another reason I'm on the 650B bandwagon and for me the best all around compromise....which everything is really. Pick you poison and enjoy!!
 
#57 ·
I do notice the 48mm longer wheelbase than the Element 70 MSL on some tight and twisty trails, but it's also early in the season and my skills are at about 50% so that difference might go away in time. I do like the 1/2" extra BB height over the MSL, no pedal strikes on rooty trails. It does tackle this stuff really well, even when it was as wet as it was yesterday.

I have noticed that annoying aspect of 2x10 drivetrains when you're in big ring and the two biggest cogs, if you backpedal even half a rotation, the chain drops down to the 3rd largest cog on the back so when you start pedaling forward again it takes a crunchy moment or two to get engaged and get moving. My 2x10 XTR drivetrain did the same thing when new, so maybe that will eventually go away too, but it's really annoying now.
 

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#58 ·
I do notice the 48mm longer wheelbase than the Element 70 MSL on some tight and twisty trails, but it's also early in the season and my skills are at about 50% so that difference might go away in time. I do like the 1/2" extra BB height over the MSL, no pedal strikes on rooty trails. It does tackle this stuff really well, even when it was as wet as it was yesterday.

I have noticed that annoying aspect of 2x10 drivetrains when you're in big ring and the two biggest cogs, if you backpedal even half a rotation, the chain drops down to the 3rd largest cog on the back so when you start pedaling forward again it takes a crunchy moment or two to get engaged and get moving. My 2x10 XTR drivetrain did the same thing when new, so maybe that will eventually go away too, but it's really annoying now.
I'm liking the play by play review on the bike. Keep em coming
 
#60 ·
German Bike magazine tested 6 29ers with around 130mm travel. The Instinct was rated last of the bunch (but still got very good marks). So, is it really not as good as the Giant Trance, Cannondale Trigger, Specialized Stumpjumper, Scott Genius and Kona Satori? They criticized the Instinct for too much bobbing and for the sub-par components. They also rated it the least capable on the downhill, but I guess that was due to the tires.
 
#63 · (Edited)
I think I would agree on the 950 spec, I went for the 970 just because it was such a well spec'd bike for the money and had a Shimano drive train. I am thinking it will need to get some XT brakes as the Avid have become gerbily shaky brakes in wet conditions.

I think the only way they could accuse the Instinct of having a lot of pedal bob is if they were trying to use it in Descent mode.

After signing in and looking at the scores, all the bikes were rated as Very Good. The Instinct lost points for weight w/o pedals, and suspension efficiency but had very good pedal efficiency ratings and very good handling/geometry. It also lost points for bottle holders, which is kinda specious since you're much more likely to wear a Camelback for AM rides, and only use a WB cage for lights/batteries. It also lost points for saddle adjustability, but the 970 has the dropper post and the 950 doesn't.

It also got top marks for stiffness.
 
#64 ·
In the magazine, they bunched all those marks together under uphill, downhill and misc scores, while in the online PDF it is clear that the Instinct looses uphill points by not having bottle holders. Kinda weird, to say the least. They also test the bike stock, they don't even change the tires to their preferred ones, which is strange to me because I have never ever ridden a bike with the stock tires (except when they were any good).
 
#65 ·
The stock Conti's definitely don't cut it unless they get RaceSport or ProTection spec tires for the German market. The Black Chili rubber Conti's make it a completely different bike than with the standard rubber X-King/Mountain King combo.

It's been years since I mounted a water bottle cage, or even used a water bottle lighting battery mount, when ever people complain about having no place to mount bottles on anything but an XC race bike, I always think they live someplace that is always dry and has no cows near trails.

What's interesting and not well represented in their overall scoring system is the bikes that get wildly different scores for the uphill and downhill and the total still ends up high. The Cannondale and Kona get the lowest scores for uphill and the very highest scores for downhill. That gives them a high overall score without really indicating that they are not as well rounded for AM use, but maybe closer to a light duty freeride bike.
 
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