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  1. #1
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    2013 Altitude 790 Frame Ordered

    So I put the order in at my LBS for an Altitude frame!!

    Now I've got a few big decisions to make...especially for the fork.

    I'm not sure which fork I should get, but whichever one it is, I think I need to keep in mind how different axle to crown lengths will affect the head angle.

    I did see on the Rocky Website that the Altitude is specced with either the Fox 34 or the Rockshox Revelation, and both forks produce the same head angle range (66.6-68.3).

    The website also shows the Fox 34 set to 150mm? How do they change this from the stock160mm? Does this modification change the axle to crown length?

    Any thoughts on going with the Revelation Dual Air to save 1/2 pound vs. the Fox 34? Other fork ideas?

    2013 RockShox Revelation RCT3 Dual Postion 650B 15QR Tapered Air Fork - Pro Bike Supply

    For drivetrain I'm thinking Sram 1x11 with 28 tooth front ring.

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    The Fox fork can be travel reduced from 160mm with a 10mm spacer, and that does reduce A2C by 10mm. But the 34mm stanchions on the fork will be much stiffer than the 32mm on the RS Revelation, that would be worth the extra 200gms.

    Here's the Fox A2C spec http://service.foxracingshox.com/con..._SPEC_RevC.pdf
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  3. #3
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    How much was the frame if you don't mind me asking? Can you tell me what color the frame only comes in?

  4. #4
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    the frame msrp is $2799. I never asked about the colour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill View Post
    The Fox fork can be travel reduced from 160mm with a 10mm spacer, and that does reduce A2C by 10mm. But the 34mm stanchions on the fork will be much stiffer than the 32mm on the RS Revelation, that would be worth the extra 200gms.

    Here's the Fox A2C spec http://service.foxracingshox.com/con..._SPEC_RevC.pdf
    Thanks Rocky...looks like the 150mm setting is 544.4mm.

    Now...if you had the option between a "32 FLOAT 150 FIT CTD w/Trail Adjust" (if they made it in 27.5) and the "34 FLOAT 27.5 160 FIT CTD w/Trail Adjust" shimmed to 150mm, which would you (for your own riding) take on the new Altitude? Extra stiffness or 1/2" lb less up front?
    Last edited by skyak; 10-11-2012 at 06:37 PM.

  6. #6
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    Since I'm close to 200 pounds, I'd go for the 34mm Fox fork. If I were 50 pounds lighter, the 32mm Revelation would likely be stiff enough.

    The guys at my LBS told me how much that SRAM 11 speed setup costs: $425 for the cassette, $285 for the cranks with 32T ring, about $100-130 for new chainrings or different tooth counts, $305 for the rear derailleur, and $175 for the rear shifter. So almost $1200 plus the DT Swiss rear hub upgrade at $100.
    Last edited by rockyuphill; 10-11-2012 at 09:02 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Nice. I have the 790 complete bike on order. The only parts I'm a bit unsure of are the brakes and saddle. I haven't had the best experience with Avid/SRAM hydraulic brakes and I've been using WTB Rocket V saddles for a long time.

    I'll probably pick up another set of Answer Roves for the bike. I've been really happy with them on my SS.
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

  8. #8
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    Curious when is your frame only expected?
    I checked on the frame only availability of the new Element RSL 29" and it was February.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbdcd View Post
    Curious when is your frame only expected?
    I checked on the frame only availability of the new Element RSL 29" and it was February.
    They said February is the current expected, but in reality it would probably be closer to April.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill View Post
    Since I'm close to 200 pounds, I'd go for the 34mm Fox fork. If I were 50 pounds lighter, the 32mm Revelation would likely be stiff enough.

    The guys at my LBS told me how much that SRAM 11 speed setup costs: $425 for the cassette, $285 for the cranks with 32T ring, about $100-130 for new chainrings or different tooth counts, $305 for the rear derailleur, and $175 for the rear shifter. So almost $1200 plus the DT Swiss rear hub upgrade at $100.
    I'm really stoked on the 1x11, I hope that I can get it before the frame arrives.

    Only thing that gives me a little concern is the gearing ratios (I love my granny!!).

    My current granny setup is 34/22 = 1.55 on 26" Rear.
    Going to 42/28 = 1.5 is going to be a little higher gearing...but then you add on the 650B vs 26" and you lose about another 5% leverage??
    So am I right in thinking that the total impact with 1x11 650B vs. my current setup is about ~8% higher geared granny? ...having my doubts now if this is true!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy f View Post
    Nice. I have the 790 complete bike on order. The only parts I'm a bit unsure of are the brakes and saddle. I haven't had the best experience with Avid/SRAM hydraulic brakes and I've been using WTB Rocket V saddles for a long time.

    I'll probably pick up another set of Answer Roves for the bike. I've been really happy with them on my SS.
    I agree most of the bike looks pretty good, my question areas would be:

    Not sure about the 34 vs. 32 fork...although Rocky says he would go for the 34 so I'm reconsidering.
    I would prefer 1x11 vs. 2x10 if equipped with same granny ratio (42/28 vs. 36/24).
    I would go for XTR Trail (or XT) brakes vs. the Avids.
    I wouldn't want RaceFace or fi'zi:k on my bike (but only stem, handlebar and seat on this one though, so easy to change out).
    Don't want the Rockshox Reverb Dropper Post.

    Otherwise looks really good!

  12. #12
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    Does anyone know about Q Factors? The XX1 Crankset comes in a 168 Q Factor or 156 Q Factor. I gather the 156 is narrower. What should I order for the Altitude?

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    It will be based on what can fit the BB-92 bottom bracket and clear the chainstays. Here's the crank frame fit specs for all the Q factors. It's likely going to be really tight for a 156mm Q factor with the 142mm rear axle and wider chainstays needed to do that, the 168mm would be a safer bet.

    http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/Xd...ifications.pdf.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill View Post
    It will be based on what can fit the BB-92 bottom bracket and clear the chainstays. Here's the crank frame fit specs for all the Q factors. It's likely going to be really tight for a 156mm Q factor with the 142mm rear axle and wider chainstays needed to do that, the 168mm would be a safer bet.

    http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/Xd...ifications.pdf.
    Thanks Rocky...really appreciate the help!

  15. #15
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    Got an update from LBS today, frame is expected in January!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyak View Post
    Got an update from LBS today, frame is expected in January!!!!
    Interesting An email from Rocky just yesterday (a guy Jeff) said March/April for the frames. Complete bikes will be sooner. Also he said most frames go to Europe and not N/A so if you want one it's best to pre-order before they sell out. Could be a bit of marketing hype there?

    Appears the color for frame only will be the 790 carbon/yellow/greenish combo.

    He also mentioned the weight of the 770 and 790 complete bikes

    Here are some complete bike weights:

    790 MSL 12.25kg/27.25lbs

    770MSL 13kg/28.75lbs


    Skyak,

    Have you considered the White Bros. Loop fork @ 150mm? Very stiff for a 32mm fork and the thing works fantastic on my Jamis Dakar. Gets full travel with out crazy brake dive, designed for 650B wheels with a proper offset (41mm) and proper A/C height of 544 @ 150 setting.

    I'm strongly considering the new Altitude frame set and would move my Loop and all the XO stuff over from the Jamis and sell the off frame. Jamis is very very nice but the Rocky will be even better I think. More travel, slacker with all the adjustments available, lighter and better rear suspension design. Should climb amazing I hope set up with steep angles.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  17. #17
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    They always ship complete bikes first and bare frames later, and the frames are always in short supply in the first year of production, that's the way it was with the carbon 26" Elements. So you do want to order early if you want a frame only. Y
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  18. #18
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    skidad, are you sure the loop is 544 @ 150. I read somewhere that it was 534? I have been looking at the magura ts8 150, but the axle to crown is only 530 so i'm wavering...

    So far I have purchased XX1 compatible wheels (Syncros TR1.0 Carbon 27.5), tires (Schwalbe Rocket Ron 2.25) and brakes (XTR Trail) for the bike.

    I'm getting ready to buy the XX1 gripshift package when it is available...so the fork is the last key piece!!!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyak View Post
    skidad, are you sure the loop is 544 @ 150. I read somewhere that it was 534? I have been looking at the magura ts8 150, but the axle to crown is only 530 so i'm wavering...
    Yes, you are correct the Loop is 534 @ 150. Me bad I've got to many A/C heights running through my brain.

    What's the Fox 34's @ 150 on the production models?

    X-Fusion Slant will be 545 @ 160 with 34 stanchions with gold slick anno treatment.

    X Fusion Shox - RL2R
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  20. #20
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    Here's the Fox 34 specs
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  21. #21
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    I think the following is true...but not sure:

    The Fox 34 Axle to Crown is 544.5 with Rake = 44
    RockShox Revelation is 539 with Rake = 42
    White Bros is 534 = 45
    Magura TS8 is 530 = ?
    Last edited by skyak; 11-01-2012 at 09:33 PM.

  22. #22
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    Magura TS8 specs

    TS8 R 150-100 Fix 26" / 650B*| MAGURA

    A2C: 530mm for 150mm and 520mm for 140mm
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  23. #23
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    I really like the Magura. Apparently they have been getting very good reviews. And not too bad on the weight side at 3.69 lbs.

    Maybe going with this fork and using the ride 9 to slacken the front will be a good combo. Will probably mean a much lower BB height, but I don't mind that. HHHMMMMM...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyak View Post
    I really like the Magura. Apparently they have been getting very good reviews. And not too bad on the weight side at 3.69 lbs.

    Maybe going with this fork and using the ride 9 to slacken the front will be a good combo. Will probably mean a much lower BB height, but I don't mind that. HHHMMMMM...
    Magura does sound very nice and I guess all the settings on the Ride 9 will be a little steeper and a touch lower BB with the shorter fork. Gotta decide if that works for you and might want to ask Rocky about that. Also, check Magura's site for tires that are approved so far that will work in this fork. Most current ones will but the new big tall Schwalbe's are not listed yet. TS8 R 150-100 Fix 26" / 650B*| MAGURA

    The X-Fusion Slant you get an extra 10mm of travel free for the same A/C as the Fox. Doesn't mention any need for a spacer for 650B use like the Velvet 140 (which doesn't actually need it at all)
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyak View Post
    skidad, are you sure the loop is 544 @ 150. I read somewhere that it was 534? I have been looking at the magura ts8 150, but the axle to crown is only 530 so i'm wavering...

    So far I have purchased XX1 compatible wheels (Syncros TR1.0 Carbon 27.5), tires (Schwalbe Rocket Ron 2.25) and brakes (XTR Trail) for the bike.

    I'm getting ready to buy the XX1 gripshift package when it is available...so the fork is the last key piece!!!
    You might want to consider having a tire with a more durable casing and better grip ready to go. This bike seems like it's going to be capable of easily exceeding what a sub 500 gram XC race tire can handle.

    I really like the 29" Nobby Nics for my SS but am thinking Hans Dampf might be better with such an aggressive machine.
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by andy f View Post
    You might want to consider having a tire with a more durable casing and better grip ready to go. This bike seems like it's going to be capable of easily exceeding what a sub 500 gram XC race tire can handle.

    I really like the 29" Nobby Nics for my SS but am thinking Hans Dampf might be better with such an aggressive machine.
    I agree that the Rocket Rons just seem too flimsy...but, I have been running the 2.4 26er Rocket Rons tubeless on my current Altitude for the last 3 years, and I have had no issues other than needing to buy new tires on a regular basis (they wear out fast).

    But maybe with the new Altitude and the slacker setup I will want to ride it a little more like a downhill rig, so I will probably try some different rubber options after the Rocket Rons wear out, which shouldn't take long! I did decide on the Syncros TR1.0 Wheels vs. going with another set of the Stan's Crest / DT240 / DT SuperComp that I have been using. Having said that, I have had no problems with the Crests either...but I thought they might be just a bit too flexy for the new bike.

  27. #27
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    Skidad, looking at the X-Fusion now, seems like a sweet fork. Getting 160mm of travel with 545 Axle to Crown would be great. The only issue for me is the weight (4.4 lbs). I know I probably shouldn't care but I want to try to keep the bike as close to the weight of my current Altitude if I can. Might not be possible though... Altitude Weigh-In

  28. #28
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    Crests? Heck, even on my Element I went Arch Ex.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by islander View Post
    Crests? Heck, even on my Element I went Arch Ex.
    Actually I have a Crest 650B up front (no Arch EX in 650B) and XTR-975 in the back.

    Pic: Altitude Weigh-In

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyak View Post
    Actually I have a Crest 650B up front (no Arch EX in 650B) and XTR-975 in the back.

    Pic: Altitude Weigh-In
    Stan's NoTubes ZTR Arch EX 650b 32H Disc Rim - Pro Bike Supply

    Altitude deserves a wider rim that a Crest.

    Pacenti TL 28 is nice with reasonable weight. New American Classic Race 650B is stupidly light with a 28mm outer width and 24 inner width. I assume you can get just the rim but the wheelset is light and a bit pricey.

    American Classic 27.5in/650b Wheelsets – Interbike 2012 - BikeRadar
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Skidad...that Arch EX is actually a 29er wheel...that is just a Pro Bike Supply mistake I think. For now I think you can only get the Crest or Flow. I bet the Arch will be out soon though.

    Those American Classic are nice...too bad I already bit the bullet and ordered some Syncros TR1.0 wheels. Unfortunately they are the same inner width as the crests. I agree that it would have been nice to get wider ones! I did look at the Enve AM wheels, but it just doesn't "feel" right to spend $3K on a set of wheels.

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    Questions...on the Rocky Ride9 Website page, is the seat angle graphic display backwards?

    At the same time that the seat angle number is decreasing, it graphically shows the angle getting steeper? Am I confused?

    Also, at Setting 6, when it says that there will be 10.26mm of BB Drop, this means lower by 10.26mm, correct?

    Ride 9 || Rocky Mountain Bicycles

  33. #33
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    I believe the BB Drop numbers are all absolute referenced to axle height rather than relative to an original BB drop value. A negative (-) BB drop value should indicate that the BB rises above axle height.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyak View Post
    Questions...on the Rocky Ride9 Website page, is the seat angle graphic display backwards?

    At the same time that the seat angle number is decreasing, it graphically shows the angle getting steeper? Am I confused?

    Also, at Setting 6, when it says that there will be 10.26mm of BB Drop, this means lower by 10.26mm, correct? YES

    Ride 9 || Rocky Mountain Bicycles
    You are a bit confused as was I so I contacted Rocky. I was reading the chart backwards. A negative reading indcated on the BB height is actually higher (I thought it was lower). Slackest HA and SA setting has the lowest BB height. The steepest HA and SA result in the highest BB height (exactly what I wanted)

    SA and HA go slacker or steeper together in unison. You can't have one go one way and the other go another. Make sense??

    Some interesting reading here about the Ride Nine system and one guys view of what Rocky claims about some of their technology. Get ready for some seat time with this web site. A bit overwhelming and a little hard to understand at times but quite interesting. Not sure I liked the results for the new design.

    Scroll down a bit for the Altitude

    linkagedesign.blogspot.com.es/search/label /Rocky%20Mountain - Translator
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill View Post
    I believe the BB Drop numbers are all absolute referenced to axle height rather than relative to an original BB drop value. A negative (-) BB drop value should indicate that the BB rises above axle height.
    Yup, that's it.

    Something I noticed on the Ride 9 chart vs someplace else on the Rocky site (maybe specs). Ride 9 chart mentions a +- 10mm variance in BB height and the other was a +- 7mm varience. Not a huge difference I know but now I wonder which is correct?

    Running some #'s I figured the highest BB height is close to 14". Nice option to have if you live in New England rocks like me. Really like my 650 Jamis Dakar but it's just to low for me to live with so it's gonna go this winter at some point (probably just the frame).
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  36. #36
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    Do you see what I mean about the seat angle graphic being backwards?

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    linkagedesign.blogspot.com.es/search/label/Rocky%20Mountain - Translator[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the link. Interesting comment on the 'smoothlink' effect of moving the shock to the top tube..."The Smoothlink (HL) only makes sense when combined with a link horizontal, as the Slayer or the old Altitude, in which the percentages were around 50%".

    Not that I understand what he is saying, mind you.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyak View Post
    Do you see what I mean about the seat angle graphic being backwards?
    Ok, I think I see it. Really hadn't noticed those things moving ha ha. The I would have seen the BB height go up in the first place.

    Anyway, go by the #'s and ignore the little circles moving
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Thanks for the link. Interesting comment on the 'smoothlink' effect of moving the shock to the top tube..."The Smoothlink (HL) only makes sense when combined with a link horizontal, as the Slayer or the old Altitude, in which the percentages were around 50%".

    Not that I understand what he is saying, mind you.[/QUOTE]

    Basically saying Rocky's claims about the smooth link design works with the older rocker style suspension with vertical shock not the new setup. I've not ridden and older style but have 2 of the new ones. An Element and the new Instinct. Both felt harsh to me. Could be just setup but as much as I'm loving this new Altitude I'm a bit concerned. Looking forward to more reviews and the MTBR shootout before I decide later this winter.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    So after much deliberation I have decided to go with a German-A Excite 650B Fork (150mm travel) for the Altitude, as they now offer a tapered version. Taking a bit of a leap of faith, as there are really no reviews of this fork. Hope it works out! If anyone has any experience with the fork let me know

    german:A. - lightweight bike engineering since 1995

    The Excite 650B 150mm has an axle to crown of 545mm (vs 544.5) for the stock Fox, so I will be keeping the geometry as close to stock as possible.

    I was very keen on the Magura TS8...but I just couldn't rationalize the 530mm axle to crown length.

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    Holy crappola, some serious and interesting engineering going on in that fork.

    I'm sure you've done the homework but I'm not seeing 545 A/C listed anywhere.

    Hard to understand or read between the lines on the web site. What is the exact fork you are getting and the features it's going to have? What's the deal with the travel adjust and how does it work and what range does it have? Carbon steerer tube?

    Dude you are going to have one VERY blingy Altitude....and the most expensive. Can't wait to see it all pulled together so I can drool on my keyboard.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Holy crappola, some serious and interesting engineering going on in that fork.

    I'm sure you've done the homework but I'm not seeing 545 A/C listed anywhere.

    Hard to understand or read between the lines on the web site. What is the exact fork you are getting and the features it's going to have? What's the deal with the travel adjust and how does it work and what range does it have? Carbon steerer tube?

    Dude you are going to have one VERY blingy Altitude....and the most expensive. Can't wait to see it all pulled together so I can drool on my keyboard.
    Expensive for sure but likely still less than msrp on an S-Works Stumpy or a Remedy 9.9
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

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    This new frame seems tempting. I am just curious about weight...wondering if it can be 25lb when said and done.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesse101 View Post
    This new frame seems tempting. I am just curious about weight...wondering if it can be 25lb when said and done.
    From my post #16 and this was directly from Rocky for 2 of the carbon models

    790 MSL 12.25kg/27.25lbs

    770MSL 13kg/28.75lbs

    Look through the specs to see where you might lose some weight
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Actually the Xcite forks are not priced that bad.

    For a 650B, 150mm travel (adjustable), tapered, 15mm Axle, Boost Model they charge just under $900 US (website prices include 19% German tax). That is way cheaper than what the stock Fox 650B fork goes for here in Canada.

    Then you can add additional options like compression adjust (lockout), carbon steerer, carbon tubes, etc.

  46. #46
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    In terms of weight savings the biggest gains can probably be had via the fork, seatpost and tires. That's 2lbs at least I would guess. With a few other odds and ends, 25lbs is probably reasonable.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    From my post #16 and this was directly from Rocky for 2 of the carbon models

    790 MSL 12.25kg/27.25lbs

    770MSL 13kg/28.75lbs

    Look through the specs to see where you might lose some weight
    Are those weights without pedals?
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy f View Post
    Are those weights without pedals?
    Hmmm, good question. Rocky didn't say but since the bikes are sold without pedals I'm gonna assume it's that way.

    I'd be overjoyed to see 25lbs with the carbon frame and perfectly happy at 27-28 since I'm already pushing around a 30+ lb bike.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyak View Post
    In terms of weight savings the biggest gains can probably be had via the fork, seatpost and tires. That's 2lbs at least I would guess. With a few other odds and ends, 25lbs is probably reasonable.
    thats good to hear.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Hmmm, good question. Rocky didn't say but since the bikes are sold without pedals I'm gonna assume it's that way.

    I'd be overjoyed to see 25lbs with the carbon frame and perfectly happy at 27-28 since I'm already pushing around a 30+ lb bike.
    28 lbs. including pedals sounds great to me for a 6" travel bike. I can't see giving up the dropper post, sacrificing stiffness in the fork, or running less capable tires to make it lighter.
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

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